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Recommend alternative to Triton T90sr and Mira QT elite showers?

  • 10-04-2018 5:29pm
    #1
    Damoedge
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭


    Hi all,

    Could anyone here please recommend an alternative shower to the Triton T90sr and the Mira elite QT ??

    I already have a Triton T90sr installed but we are not happy with it, it has very very low water pressure at the highest temp setting and at the highest temp setting the water is only warm not hot.

    I have read on here bad reviews about the Mira elite QT so I need something different...

    So I'm looking to replace the Triton as soon as possible...

    Any help or recommendations on other showers please....would really appreciate it...

    Thanks all 😉

    D.


«13

Comments

  • #2
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Damoedge wrote:
    Any help or recommendations on other showers please....would really appreciate it...


    The triton t90sr is 9kw, the same as the mira elite qt. The kW determines the water pressure. You can are talking 2.5 / 3 litres of hot water per minute on a cold frosty morning and 4 / 4.5 litres per minute on the the hottest day of the year. Your electric shower can pump out more cold water but you have to slow it down to heat the water. You have to wait for a minute or so to boiler enough water for a cup of tea.

    If you are not happy with the water pressure then you need to get away from an electric shower & change to a power shower. With a power shower you heat the water first in your hot water water cylinder. Then you can pump it out as powerful as you like. Mine is 23 litres of hot water per minute.


  • #3
    Damoedge
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭Damoedge


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    The triton t90sr is 9kw, the same as the mira elite qt. The kW determines the water pressure. You can are talking 2.5 / 3 litres of hot water per minute on a cold frosty morning and 4 / 4.5 litres per minute on the the hottest day of the year. Your electric shower can pump out more cold water but you have to slow it down to heat the water. You have to wait for a minute or so to boiler enough water for a cup of tea.

    If you are not happy with the water pressure then you need to get away from an electric shower & change to a power shower. With a power shower you heat the water first in your hot water water cylinder. Then you can pump it out as powerful as you like. Mine is 23 litres of hot water per minute.

    Is there such thing as a 10kw shower?


  • #4
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Damoedge wrote:
    Is there such thing as a 10kw shower?


    Mira have a 9.9kw elite qt. You most likely have 6mm cable. For 9.9kw you need 10mm cable right back to the fuseboad. The tails coming into the house might need to be upgraded. Worse case scenario the 9.9kw might cost the guts of 1000 euro supplied & fitted if this extra work is required. After spending all that money you'll find that where you got 3 litres per minute you will get 3.3 litres per minute in the winter & 4.5 to less than 5 litres per minute on the hottest day. You also might end up with a very problematic shower.

    The bottom line is that an electric shower is a compromise. They are instant & energy efficient as you only heat a small amount of water. The compromise is the lack of pressure


  • #5
    Damoedge
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭Damoedge


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Mira have a 9.9kw elite qt. You most likely have 6mm cable. For 9.9kw you need 10mm cable right back to the fuseboad. The tails coming into the house might need to be upgraded. Worse case scenario the 9.9kw might cost the guts of 1000 euro supplied & fitted if this extra work is required. After spending all that money you'll find that where you got 3 litres per minute you will get 3.3 litres per minute in the winter & 4.5 to less than 5 litres per minute on the hottest day. You also might end up with a very problematic shower.

    The bottom line is that an electric shower is a compromise. They are instant & energy efficient as you only heat a small amount of water. The compromise is the lack of pressure

    It's a pity that there are only two brands of showers in Ireland and as far as I know England too....

    I think it would be better to buy an old model of either the two brands....modern technology is great in all but as the saying goes..they don't make them like they used to!......we had a Mira before the T90sr and it lasted 16 years but the motor started to make a funny noise at the end...still tho great water pressure from it!


  • #6
    Damoedge
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭Damoedge


    Just throwing this out there.....how much would it cost to install a power shower....a ball park figure like?m?

    Do you have to wait for the hot water to heat up from the immersion in the hot water cylinder? Like 20 mins or so?


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  • #7
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Damoedge wrote: »
    Just throwing this out there.....how much would it cost to install a power shower....a ball park figure like?m?

    Do you have to wait for the hot water to heat up from the immersion in the hot water cylinder? Like 20 mins or so?


    Power shower installation from scratch is 550 & upwards. Some can be over 1000.

    Yes you have to wait 30 minutes or so for the water to heat up


  • #8
    John.G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭John.G


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    The triton t90sr is 9kw, the same as the mira elite qt. The kW determines the water pressure. You can are talking 2.5 / 3 litres of hot water per minute on a cold frosty morning and 4 / 4.5 litres per minute on the the hottest day of the year. Your electric shower can pump out more cold water but you have to slow it down to heat the water. You have to wait for a minute or so to boiler enough water for a cup of tea.

    If you are not happy with the water pressure then you need to get away from an electric shower & change to a power shower. With a power shower you heat the water first in your hot water water cylinder. Then you can pump it out as powerful as you like. Mine is 23 litres of hot water per minute.

    Friend of mine is thinking of installing the above but is having second thoughts due to various posts like Damoedge's re the apparent poor performance of the T90SR, the point that these posters seem to be making is that its output is (again apparently) poor when comparing like for like, ie a older type 9.0 KW shower with the T90SR's 9.0 KW, changing the shower head or even using the old one doesn't seem to improve matters. I know this is very basic but have you personally checked that the T90SR shower actually has a power output of 9.0 KW? by using a energy meter or taking a resistance reading of the heating cans which should be around 11.76 ohms each?.
    I think that would really put to bed any doubts about its power output.


  • #9
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    John.G wrote: »
    Friend of mine is thinking of installing the above but is having second thoughts due to various posts like Damoedge's re the apparent poor performance of the T90SR, the point that these posters seem to be making is that its output is (again apparently) poor when comparing like for like, ie a older type 9.0 KW shower with the T90SR's 9.0 KW, changing the shower head or even using the old one doesn't seem to improve matters. I know this is very basic but have you personally checked that the T90SR shower actually has a power output of 9.0 KW? by using a energy meter or taking a resistance reading of the heating cans which should be around 11.76 ohms each?.
    I think that would really put to bed any doubts about its power output.


    It's definitely a 9kw element. Most people who feel it's not as powerful as their old shower change their mind if they put on the old shower head.

    If you are taking a 10 year old shower off the wall its chocked with limescale. The space for water in the heating can will be half what it should be. These showers take longer to heat up as you have to heat the limescale too. Once the water is hot you now have the stored heat in the limescale & stored heat from the outside of the can heating the water as-well as the element. The shower head will be caked with limescale. The holes will be smaller due to limescale & all of this gives the impression of better pressure than the new shower being installed. You get the same effect with all electric showers & all brand of electric showers.

    Without trying to be rude with people saying that the old shower had better pressure but it's illusion. A 9kw shower puts out 9kw of heat. The only thing that effect the outcome is the temperature of the water in the attic


  • #10
    John.G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭John.G


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    It's definitely a 9kw element. Most people who feel it's not as powerful as their old shower change their mind if they put on the old shower head.

    If you are taking a 10 year old shower off the wall its chocked with limescale. The space for water in the heating can will be half what it should be. These showers take longer to heat up as you have to heat the limescale too. Once the water is hot you now have the stored heat in the limescale & stored heat from the outside of the can heating the water as-well as the element. The shower head will be caked with limescale. The holes will be smaller due to limescale & all of this gives the impression of better pressure than the new shower being installed. You get the same effect with all electric showers & all brand of electric showers.

    Without trying to be rude with people saying that the old shower had better pressure but it's illusion. A 9kw shower puts out 9kw of heat. The only thing that effect the outcome is the temperature of the water in the attic

    Thanks, I will recommend it so to my friend. I think some time ago 9.5 KW UK showers were being sold here as 9.0 KW but of course they were actually 8.72 KW at 230V, near enough one might say!. The only true 9.0 KW showers here were 9.8 KW in the UK at 240V.


  • #11
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    The Triton T90 is designed for the Irish market so the KW is based on 230v. In the UK you can only get the T90XR. Thats two models ago. The t90sr is exclusive to Ireland for the next few years. Best pumped electric shower on the market.


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  • #12
    Damoedge
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭Damoedge


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    The Triton T90 is designed for the Irish market so the KW is based on 230v. In the UK you can only get the T90XR. Thats two models ago. The t90sr is exclusive to Ireland for the next few years. Best pumped electric shower on the market.

    I'm afraid I would totally have to disagree with you on the that one! At Christmas I bought a Triton T90sr, a replacement for an old Mira shower that was working perfect with perfect temp with the temp selector knob at 2 o clock ( any higher it would scald you) and the water pressure was very very good at this setting. It was great pressure! Then we install the new T90sr and from the get go it was crap to say the least! Now there was no change to our electrics or plumbing...we even used the old shower head from the Mira...nothing worked for us!

    How can a like for like brand new shower perform so bad compared to the old one...please note also there is virtually no limescale in our area, we never really had to clean the shower head with a needle!

    I'm sorry but this is a new model for Triton and the customer market (the likes of me) is only a field test for this model! If you think that thousands of these showers that have been sold already are all working totally perfect well you would want to think again....of course a bad shower will show up somewhere exposing it's design flaws! I Have One! How many people have actually noticed this but are happy to just let it go and not bother saying anything about it?? Hundreds I would say...

    Im just unlucky I got caught with a bad one but it's going to cost me extra money to sort is out and that's something you don't expect when buying any new product.


  • #13
    John.G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭John.G


    Damoedge wrote: »
    I'm afraid I would totally have to disagree with you on the that one! At Christmas I bought a Triton T90sr, a replacement for an old Mira shower that was working perfect with perfect temp with the temp selector knob at 2 o clock ( any higher it would scald you) and the water pressure was very very good at this setting. It was great pressure! Then we install the new T90sr and from the get go it was crap to say the least! Now there was no change to our electrics or plumbing...we even used the old shower head from the Mira...nothing worked for us!

    How can a like for like brand new shower perform so bad compared to the old one...please note also there is virtually no limescale in our area, we never really had to clean the shower head with a needle!

    I'm sorry but this is a new model for Triton and the customer market (the likes of me) is only a field test for this model! If you think that thousands of these showers that have been sold already are all working totally perfect well you would want to think again....of course a bad shower will show up somewhere exposing it's design flaws! I Have One! How many people have actually noticed this but are happy to just let it go and not bother saying anything about it?? Hundreds I would say...

    Im just unlucky I got caught with a bad one but it's going to cost me extra money to sort is out and that's something you don't expect when buying any new product.

    You said in a earlier post that the water is only warm at the highest temperature setting....could you possibly just put the showerhead into a bucket for exactly one minute and then measure this with a 1 litre milk bottle or whatever and post back if you don't mind.
    I don't know if your house is old enough but the ESB meter in mine is the old type "Ferranti Ireland" which has a disc that can be used very very accurately to measure consumption, to measure my shower I just turn off all the heavy users, and measure the time it takes the disc to turn say 20 times. I did it just now, (on my ESB meter, 225 turns is 1 Kwh), the disc took 34 secs for 20 revolutions, this gives a shower output of 9.4 KW, (20*3600/225/34). This might seem high for a 9.0 Kw (@ 230V) Mira Sport but my terminal voltage is allways around 240 so that number is pretty accurate if one allows for cable voltage drop.
    Anyway, one way or the other, you should be able to able to either measure or calculate tha actual shower power and take appropriate action.


  • #14
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Damoedge wrote:
    Im just unlucky I got caught with a bad one but it's going to cost me extra money to sort is out and that's something you don't expect when buying any new product.

    What happened when triton came out to test the your new shower?


  • #15
    John.G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭John.G


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    What happened when triton came out to test the your new shower?

    Dont want to be beating this to death but here is another poster... measured his flowrate at 2.5 LPM in March, https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=106492358

    A 9 KW shower will give a temperature rise of almost 52C at this flowrate and even if the supply tank temp was only 5C (more likely to be around 8C), then you end up with a almost scalding temperature of 57C. On the other hand if the shower is only running at "1/2" power, 4.5 KW for whatever reason, either selected or some fault then the temperature rise will be 26C giving a shower temp of a tepid 31C. Assuming a supply temp of 5C and a showering temp of 40C then a 9 Kw shower should give a flowrate of 3.7 LPM.


  • #16
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    John.G wrote: »
    Dont want to be beating this to death but here is another poster... measured his flowrate at 2.5 LPM in March, https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=106492358

    A 9 KW shower will give a temperature rise of almost 52C at this flowrate and even if the supply tank temp was only 5C (more likely to be around 8C), then you end up with a almost scalding temperature of 57C. On the other hand if the shower is only running at "1/2" power, 4.5 KW for whatever reason, either selected or some fault then the temperature rise will be 26C giving a shower temp of a tepid 31C. Assuming a supply temp of 5C and a showering temp of 40C then a 9 Kw shower should give a flowrate of 3.7 LPM.

    The op in that instance did only say hot water. I wonder if he had turned it up to it’s hottest setting for his jug test. I don’t know how hot those showers allow water to get before some safety device activates.
    Anyway if power usage and flow temperature (allowing for input temperature) and flow rate is measured, it could all be put to bed. Unless there is a power cable heating up a wall or attic somewhere. Perhaps a voltage drop test would also be needed.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



  • #17
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Measuring the flow rate is only a rough guide. To use this method correctly you will need to test the temperature of the water in the attic & test the temperature of the water coming out of the shower.

    I have yet to come across a case where the elements weren't preforming correctly. There are two elements. I've seen showers with only one element working & the pressure is bad. This is faulty element & needs to be replaced. I've never come across a heating can where both elements work but the temperature or pressure is bad.

    I asked in an earlier post what triton have said when they tested the shower because I have never heard of an element failing in such a way. I work on over 1000 showers per year and have never come a this in any shower. We fully test anything we installed.

    We do hear people feel that the pressure was better in the old shower. Their new shower might be a triton, mira or other brand. The general consensus in the trade is that they are imagining it. I've never heard of a manifacture needing replace an element in such a way. Doesn't mean that it hasn't happened but I have yet to come across a case like that. I've never heard of it with any element from the hot press to a kettle.

    Any shower we have installed & the client felt the pressure wasn't as good as the old when tested preformed perfectly. Either changing back to the old shower head or just giving them a week or two to get used to it is all we've ever needed.


  • #18
    Damoedge
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭Damoedge


    John.G wrote: »
    Dont want to be beating this to death but here is another poster... measured his flowrate at 2.5 LPM in March, https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=106492358

    A 9 KW shower will give a temperature rise of almost 52C at this flowrate and even if the supply tank temp was only 5C (more likely to be around 8C), then you end up with a almost scalding temperature of 57C. On the other hand if the shower is only running at "1/2" power, 4.5 KW for whatever reason, either selected or some fault then the temperature rise will be 26C giving a shower temp of a tepid 31C. Assuming a supply temp of 5C and a showering temp of 40C then a 9 Kw shower should give a flowrate of 3.7 LPM.

    It really does look like I am not the only one here, as I said before how many others are there out there that are just going to accept that there brand new shower is not performing as is should do....I definitely don't think that we are "imagining it" we are a big family and since this shower has been installed every member of the family has been home for a weekend and had a shower in it and every one has said the same thing! "Where the hell did ye get that shower from its useless!" It's actually quite annoying in a way....so it's not just me! Anyone who has used it has said the same thing and my family going back home to use there own showers well I guess they were good testers for my shower....It's no imagination going on here....the shower is under performing and it is as simple as that!

    1. The temp selector knob at lowest setting as in cold...the water flows as normal as it should do...Good pressure and the water temp would be as I expect it to be...the water temp in the attic...cold but not freezing cold

    2. The temp selector knob all the way turned up to its highest setting all the way! The water pressure is drastically reduced...and I mean it's barely washable in! .... The temp is only warm not hot or not scalding hot just warm! Just over luke warm I would say.

    Again our old shower.....the temp selector knob on our old shower did Not have to be turned all of the way up until it could go no further...it was always set at about 1 o clock and at this setting it was a perfect shower...any higher and it would have scald you! And the pressure was good....please remember there was no change to our plumbing or electric system when the new shower was installed ! It's not Rocket science going on here....It's very simple in my eyes and from the experience I've had with it!....the shower for what ever reason is not performing as it should...Not on the fault of the customers who buy it but the fault of its design I would say....Simple !


  • #19
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Damoedge wrote:
    Again our old shower.....the temp selector knob on our old shower did Not have to be turned all of the way up until it could go no further...it was always set at about 1 o clock and at this setting it was a perfect shower...any higher and it would have scald you! And the pressure was good....please remember there was no change to our plumbing or electric system when the new shower was installed ! It's not Rocket science going on here....It's very simple in my eyes and from the experience I've had with it!....the shower for what ever reason is not performing as it should...Not on the fault of the customers who buy it but the fault of its design I would say....Simple !

    Why not get triton out. It's under warranty and triton are really excellent with the warranty. They will fully test the shower and element.

    We don't have the shower in front of us here so can only give general advice. Triton will test & if there is anything wrong they will replace or repair.

    Please post back here if they do call out. You can help other posters


  • #20
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    Damoedge wrote: »
    It really does look like I am not the only one here, as I said before how many others are there out there that are just going to accept that there brand new shower is not performing as is should do....I definitely don't think that we are "imagining it" we are a big family and since this shower has been installed every member of the family has been home for a weekend and had a shower in it and every one has said the same thing! "Where the hell did ye get that shower from its useless!" It's actually quite annoying in a way....so it's not just me! Anyone who has used it has said the same thing and my family going back home to use there own showers well I guess they were good testers for my shower....It's no imagination going on here....the shower is under performing and it is as simple as that!

    1. The temp selector knob at lowest setting as in cold...the water flows as normal as it should do...Good pressure and the water temp would be as I expect it to be...the water temp in the attic...cold but not freezing cold

    2. The temp selector knob all the way turned up to its highest setting all the way! The water pressure is drastically reduced...and I mean it's barely washable in! .... The temp is only warm not hot or not scalding hot just warm! Just over luke warm I would say.

    Again our old shower.....the temp selector knob on our old shower did Not have to be turned all of the way up until it could go no further...it was always set at about 1 o clock and at this setting it was a perfect shower...any higher and it would have scald you! And the pressure was good....please remember there was no change to our plumbing or electric system when the new shower was installed ! It's not Rocket science going on here....It's very simple in my eyes and from the experience I've had with it!....the shower for what ever reason is not performing as it should...Not on the fault of the customers who buy it but the fault of its design I would say....Simple !

    If its using 9KW, then the heat has to be going somewhere. As suggested by JohnG, have you a way to measure the shower electricity usage?

    Will be interesting to hear what triton have to say.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



  • #21
    John.G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭John.G


    Damoedge wrote: »
    It really does look like I am not the only one here, as I said before how many others are there out there that are just going to accept that there brand new shower is not performing as is should do....I definitely don't think that we are "imagining it" we are a big family and since this shower has been installed every member of the family has been home for a weekend and had a shower in it and every one has said the same thing! "Where the hell did ye get that shower from its useless!" It's actually quite annoying in a way....so it's not just me! Anyone who has used it has said the same thing and my family going back home to use there own showers well I guess they were good testers for my shower....It's no imagination going on here....the shower is under performing and it is as simple as that!

    1. The temp selector knob at lowest setting as in cold...the water flows as normal as it should do...Good pressure and the water temp would be as I expect it to be...the water temp in the attic...cold but not freezing cold

    2. The temp selector knob all the way turned up to its highest setting all the way! The water pressure is drastically reduced...and I mean it's barely washable in! .... The temp is only warm not hot or not scalding hot just warm! Just over luke warm I would say.

    Again our old shower.....the temp selector knob on our old shower did Not have to be turned all of the way up until it could go no further...it was always set at about 1 o clock and at this setting it was a perfect shower...any higher and it would have scald you! And the pressure was good....please remember there was no change to our plumbing or electric system when the new shower was installed ! It's not Rocket science going on here....It's very simple in my eyes and from the experience I've had with it!....the shower for what ever reason is not performing as it should...Not on the fault of the customers who buy it but the fault of its design I would say....Simple !

    "2. The temp selector knob all the way turned up to its highest setting all the way! " AND I suppose obviously the Power Selector Knob on "High" setting at not "Economy". Your symptons seem to me at any rate indicate that the shower is running on only one element...... would you ever mind just doing that jug/bucket test and put us (me) out of misery. My shower at the hottest temp setting (fully to the right) and when selected to "1/2" power gives a measured flowrate of 2.4 LPM and a measured showering temp of 35C.


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  • #22
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Damoedge wrote:
    2. The temp selector knob all the way turned up to its highest setting all the way! The water pressure is drastically reduced...and I mean it's barely washable in! .... The temp is only warm not hot or not scalding hot just warm! Just over luke warm I would say.


    I'm not sure if I asked you this before but is there a difference in the temperature when you turn the top dial from two reds to one red (two elements to one element). The water should go cooler. It's also a possibility that the cover was put on with the bottom dial in the wrong position


  • #23
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    I am curious about all this talk of electric shower output, so I measured mine this morning. Triton T90 si

    Flow rate 3.64 per min
    Output 43°C
    Water tank 10°C
    Current 37A

    How does those figures stack up John?

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



  • #24
    John.G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭John.G


    Wearb wrote: »
    I am curious about all this talk of electric shower output, so I measured mine this morning. Triton T90 si

    Flow rate 3.64 per min
    Output 43°C
    Water tank 10°C
    Current 37A

    How does those figures stack up John?

    They stack up very well indeed....


    From Flow/Temp KW = 3.64*60*(43-10)/860 = 8.38 KW

    From amps measurement...... assume the shower is a 8.5 KW unit then the resistance of the elements (in parallel) is 230*230/8.5/1000 = 6.22 ohms. Current flow is 37 amps so power in KW = 37*37*6.22/1000 = 8.5 KW. Both methods are very close, one would expect a 8.5 KW shower to have a slightly lower output due to cable voltage drop but your terminal voltage may be higher than 230.

    You can see from the above that both measurement methods compliment each other.


  • #25
    Damoedge
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭Damoedge


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Why not get triton out. It's under warranty and triton are really excellent with the warranty. They will fully test the shower and element.

    We don't have the shower in front of us here so can only give general advice. Triton will test & if there is anything wrong they will replace or repair.

    Please post back here if they do call out. You can help other posters


    Oooh please don't me wrong here, I think Triton are a great company and do have great showers as I know from the past! It's just unfortunate that I got a bad one that probably slipped through quality control....it wouldn't be the first time in my life that this has happened with a brand new product! Triton are giving me a refund which I'm very happy about and fair play to them for doing that! It's really appreciated! But still I'll have to uninstall the old shower myself and get a Plummer out to install a new one...which costs money at the end of the day.

    So getting back to my original post I'm looking for an alternative to the two showers mentioned on my first post here.....I only started to reply to people on here about my trouble with the shower I bought that's all...

    The showers that I have come across on the net that are tank fed are:

    Showers tank fed

    T80si. 8.5 9.5 10.5kw

    T900pi. 9kw

    T90z 9kw

    T90xr 9kw

    What I want to know is basically which one is the newest best model???

    Thanks again all for your help here ;)


  • #26
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    T80si. 8.5 9.5 10.5kw is an old mains fed shower. They stopped making it over 10 years ago. Unless you have been looking a UK sites. In the UK they call the Triton T900PI T80si pumped

    T900pi. 9kw This is basically a Triton T90 but made in the same footprint as a Mira Elite. It makes it easy for Mira owners to swap to Triton.

    T90z 9kw Went out of production in 2016 to make way for the Triton T90SR 9KW

    T90xr 9kw Went out of production in 2011 to make way for the Triton T90Z

    None of the above will have better pressure than the Triton T90SR

    Understandably you left the Mira Elite QT off the list. Pumped electric showers are designed for the Irish market because our water pressure is so bad. When I go to the Triton factory in the UK for a training course there's usually around 10 in the class. Not a single one would ever have heard of a Triton T90 or installed any pumped electric shower. Although I'm there to learn I usually end up giving a talk to them about pumped electric showers. The same thing happens on Aqualisa training classes. Aqualisa actually stopped making pumped electric showers altogether


    Can I ask did Triton actually test your shower? If it's a faulty element they'll replace it for free & you'll end up with the best pumped electric shower on the market. ( I don't work for Triton :) ) Has anyone tested it? What about the installer, did they test it?


  • #27
    Damoedge
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭Damoedge


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    T80si. 8.5 9.5 10.5kw is an old mains fed shower. They stopped making it over 10 years ago. Unless you have been looking a UK sites. In the UK they call the Triton T900PI T80si pumped

    T900pi. 9kw This is basically a Triton T90 but made in the same footprint as a Mira Elite. It makes it easy for Mira owners to swap to Triton.

    T90z 9kw Went out of production in 2016 to make way for the Triton T90SR 9KW

    T90xr 9kw Went out of production in 2011 to make way for the Triton T90Z

    None of the above will have better pressure than the Triton T90SR

    Understandably you left the Mira Elite QT off the list. Pumped electric showers are designed for the Irish market because our water pressure is so bad. When I go to the Triton factory in the UK for a training course there's usually around 10 in the class. Not a single one would ever have heard of a Triton T90 or installed any pumped electric shower. Although I'm there to learn I usually end up giving a talk to them about pumped electric showers. The same thing happens on Aqualisa training classes. Aqualisa actually stopped making pumped electric showers altogether


    Can I ask did Triton actually test your shower? If it's a faulty element they'll replace it for free & you'll end up with the best pumped electric shower on the market. ( I don't work for Triton :) ) Has anyone tested it? What about the installer, did they test it?


    Thanks for your information sleeper 😉

    Yes a Triton engineer did come out. When he turned on the shower he admitted straight away that there was a problem with the shower. So he took off the cover said the plumbing is fine...he then took off the shower head and and put the temp knob to the lowest the coldest and said the water pressure supply is more than enough...(things I knew myself already) then he went out to get his multimeterand came back and tested supply...he reckons that the voltage supply to the house was not enough...as far as I remember it tested at 216 volts when shower on and up to the last (highest heat setting) so he said that's where the problem was and put everything back on and skipped it...he said to call ESB to get a monitor on your supply and get them to fix it as it was not Tritons problem....he also said ( which I thought was very strange and actually got me thinking about his test! ) not to tell ESB that I had a Triton engineer at the shower....I mean what the f... Like?

    So...I'm an engineer myself and happen to have my own multimeter...I tested the shower myself at different times of the day as I know you have peak and off peak times with electricity supply! I did this over a few days and every test I did not one reading was below 226 volts...I have the photos to prove it!
    Not only that...our good friend is an electrician...so one evening he came out and did a few tests not only to the shower but a few places around the house...having immersion cooker kettles...everything turned on...after over a cup of tea and some biscuits he told us that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the supply voltage to the house and all the electrics in the house are fine....and so they should be the house itself is only 20 years old !

    I got back to Triton about this with my information and all I got back initially was this "we can only go by our engineer and nothing or no one else" I even sent them photos of tests....I was also asking them when last was that particular multimeter that there engineer used calibrated?? To which I got no answer!....I kept perusing on it and eventually they just said we will give you a refund and that was that.

    Look a company will hardly ever admit that there is something wrong with there product if they can avoid doing that...so it goes back to the old thing of...."if YOUR not happy with it we will refund you" putting it all back on the customer of course.....😉

    ðŸ‘


  • #28
    John.G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭John.G


    Damoedge wrote: »
    Thanks for your information sleeper ��

    Yes a Triton engineer did come out. When he turned on the shower he admitted straight away that there was a problem with the shower. So he took off the cover said the plumbing is fine...he then took off the shower head and and put the temp knob to the lowest the coldest and said the water pressure supply is more than enough...(things I knew myself already) then he went out to get his multimeterand came back and tested supply...he reckons that the voltage supply to the house was not enough...as far as I remember it tested at 216 volts when shower on and up to the last (highest heat setting) so he said that's where the problem was and put everything back on and skipped it...he said to call ESB to get a monitor on your supply and get them to fix it as it was not Tritons problem....he also said ( which I thought was very strange and actually got me thinking about his test! ) not to tell ESB that I had a Triton engineer at the shower....I mean what the f... Like?

    So...I'm an engineer myself and happen to have my own multimeter...I tested the shower myself at different times of the day as I know you have peak and off peak times with electricity supply! I did this over a few days and every test I did not one reading was below 226 volts...I have the photos to prove it!
    Not only that...our good friend is an electrician...so one evening he came out and did a few tests not only to the shower but a few places around the house...having immersion cooker kettles...everything turned on...after over a cup of tea and some biscuits he told us that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the supply voltage to the house and all the electrics in the house are fine....and so they should be the house itself is only 20 years old !

    I got back to Triton about this with my information and all I got back initially was this "we can only go by our engineer and nothing or no one else" I even sent them photos of tests....I was also asking them when last was that particular multimeter that there engineer used calibrated?? To which I got no answer!....I kept perusing on it and eventually they just said we will give you a refund and that was that.

    Look a company will hardly ever admit that there is something wrong with there product if they can avoid doing that...so it goes back to the old thing of...."if YOUR not happy with it we will refund you" putting it all back on the customer of course.....��

    ðŸ‘

    This is fascinating information and does cast some doubt over the T90 SR, my friend has been reading these posts as well and is getting cold feet (no pun intended). I,m amazed he didnt check the heating can resistance(s) etc, don't know if it contravenes safety rules but I wonder did he check the voltage at the shower terminals while it was running on full load, one would think that the service engineer would have some type of wiring harness made up so that he could safely monitor this. Even with 226V average and allowing for a cable voltage drop of 3V then the 9.0 KW shower should still have been producing almost 8.5 KW and anyhow your old shower would/should have been running under the same conditions (same cabling).
    If Triton offered to get that unit replaced with another T90 SR, including free installation, would you consider it?


  • #29
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    Damoedge wrote: »
    Thanks for your information sleeper ��

    Yes a Triton engineer did come out. When he turned on the shower he admitted straight away that there was a problem with the shower. So he took off the cover said the plumbing is fine...he then took off the shower head and and put the temp knob to the lowest the coldest and said the water pressure supply is more than enough...(things I knew myself already) then he went out to get his multimeterand came back and tested supply...he reckons that the voltage supply to the house was not enough...as far as I remember it tested at 216 volts when shower on and up to the last (highest heat setting) so he said that's where the problem was and put everything back on and skipped it...he said to call ESB to get a monitor on your supply and get them to fix it as it was not Tritons problem....he also said ( which I thought was very strange and actually got me thinking about his test! ) not to tell ESB that I had a Triton engineer at the shower....I mean what the f... Like?

    So...I'm an engineer myself and happen to have my own multimeter...I tested the shower myself at different times of the day as I know you have peak and off peak times with electricity supply! I did this over a few days and every test I did not one reading was below 226 volts...I have the photos to prove it!
    Not only that...our good friend is an electrician...so one evening he came out and did a few tests not only to the shower but a few places around the house...having immersion cooker kettles...everything turned on...after over a cup of tea and some biscuits he told us that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the supply voltage to the house and all the electrics in the house are fine....and so they should be the house itself is only 20 years old !

    I got back to Triton about this with my information and all I got back initially was this "we can only go by our engineer and nothing or no one else" I even sent them photos of tests....I was also asking them when last was that particular multimeter that there engineer used calibrated?? To which I got no answer!....I kept perusing on it and eventually they just said we will give you a refund and that was that.

    Look a company will hardly ever admit that there is something wrong with there product if they can avoid doing that...so it goes back to the old thing of...."if YOUR not happy with it we will refund you" putting it all back on the customer of course.....��

    ðŸ‘
    What size is shower cable?
    What is the length of the run?
    Is it exposed or covered?
    Is anything else taken off it?

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



  • #30
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Damoedge wrote:
    Look a company will hardly ever admit that there is something wrong with there product if they can avoid doing that...so it goes back to the old thing of...."if YOUR not happy with it we will refund you" putting it all back on the customer of course.....😉


    If it was an issue with the shower then the only part it could be is the element. I'm baffled as to why he didn't at least try a different element. You'd know once & for all. Your electrician friend was spot on about calibration. Usually in shower repair calibration isn't that important. We want to see around 230 volts. Most of the other tests aren't voltage and can be done with the power off.

    If it's not the voltage coming into the house then it has to be a faulty element. I wonder is it possible that a 7.5kw element fell into the wrong pile in the factory in the UK. They all look the same. Black body & copper top. No markings to know what kW it is.


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  • #31
    John.G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭John.G


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    If it was an issue with the shower then the only part it could be is the element. I'm baffled as to why he didn't at least try a different element. You'd know once & for all. Your electrician friend was spot on about calibration. Usually in shower repair calibration isn't that important. We want to see around 230 volts. Most of the other tests aren't voltage and can be done with the power off.

    If it's not the voltage coming into the house then it has to be a faulty element. I wonder is it possible that a 7.5kw element fell into the wrong pile in the factory in the UK. They all look the same. Black body & copper top. No markings to know what kW it is.

    If the 7.5 element fell into the wrong pile then its woeful manufacturing control and having no markings is crazy. I forgot to ask Damoedge to ask his electrician to check the current with a clamp on ammeter, it would be most revealing.
    Sleeper12, when you are called out to a (any) shower problem would you normally measure the heating can resistance(s) or would you just do a continuity test? and have or do you test the shower terminal voltage while its running?


  • #32
    Damoedge
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭Damoedge


    John.G wrote: »
    This is fascinating information and does cast some doubt over the T90 SR, my friend has been reading these posts as well and is getting cold feet (no pun intended). I,m amazed he didnt check the heating can resistance(s) etc, don't know if it contravenes safety rules but I wonder did he check the voltage at the shower terminals while it was running on full load, one would think that the service engineer would have some type of wiring harness made up so that he could safely monitor this. Even with 226V average and allowing for a cable voltage drop of 3V then the 9.0 KW shower should still have been producing almost 8.5 KW and anyhow your old shower would/should have been running under the same conditions (same cabling).
    If Triton offered to get that unit replaced with another T90 SR, including free installation, would you consider it?

    No he didn't check the can...I was there watching him!
    He just did what I said above...once his meter told him that the voltage was off a few volts he was out of there! And yes he did test the voltage with the unit on up to the last....

    I'll say it again why would a like for like shower perform worse than the old one....it's no use trying to factor in the house electrics or plumbing as nothing was changed! The old shower that was working fine was taken off and the new one installed!....the only reason I bought this shower was because I saw the ads on the tv about how quite it was and yes it is quite....but again it's not Rocket science here...Like for like straight swap and the new shower does not perform well!! I'm sorry but to me and I'll say it again it's completely the new showers fault here nothing else!

    To answer your other question I did ask them to replace and install a new shower but they said no to that which I was a little bit surprised by it....I just had a gut feeling that their engineer and his test was a bit too quick and as I said when he said not to tell ESB about him being there that's when I got suspicious and did my own tests along with our electricians tests.

    I just regret that on the day the engineer was there I should have got out my own multimeter in front of him but sure your not prepared for this sort of thing....oh and another thing...he would not let me take a picture of the reading on his multimeter with my phone....again strange.


  • #33
    Damoedge
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭Damoedge


    Wearb wrote: »
    What size is shower cable?
    What is the length of the run?
    Is it exposed or covered?
    Is anything else taken off it?

    10 mm
    About 3 meters to box to its own breaker
    Covered
    Nothing else taking off it.


  • #34
    John.G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭John.G


    Triton would want to get their act together or people will be going back to the "bad" old Mira!


  • #35
    Damoedge
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭Damoedge


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    If it was an issue with the shower then the only part it could be is the element. I'm baffled as to why he didn't at least try a different element. You'd know once & for all. Your electrician friend was spot on about calibration. Usually in shower repair calibration isn't that important. We want to see around 230 volts. Most of the other tests aren't voltage and can be done with the power off.

    If it's not the voltage coming into the house then it has to be a faulty element. I wonder is it possible that a 7.5kw element fell into the wrong pile in the factory in the UK. They all look the same. Black body & copper top. No markings to know what kW it is.


    It was me that asked the question about there meter being calibrated....I am an engineer myself and I know theses things ;)

    I was under the impression that the engineer in the first place was coming out to install a new shower from the conversations I had with Triton over the phone....in fact they even said it that if there was a problem with the shower the engineer has loads of showers in the van I was told!!

    It could be that an element fell into the wrong pile...something happened somewhere that I know...lol...


  • #36
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    Pity there wasn't more extensive testing on it, but I suppose if the engineer got 216V on his first test, he just more or less gave up.

    Anybody else following this thread with the SR that could do some simple tests for us for comparison?

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



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  • #37
    Damoedge
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭Damoedge


    John.G wrote: »
    Triton would want to get their act together or people will be going back to the "bad" old Mira!

    Well I'm lucky to be getting my money back....but....I still have to pay for the plumber to install a new one so that will be another €80 out of pocket....I even bought two different low pressure shower heads to see would that help matters and they didn't....another €30 down the drain!


  • #38
    John.G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭John.G


    Wearb wrote: »
    Pity there wasn't more extensive testing on it, but I suppose if the engineer got 216V on his first test, he just more or less gave up.

    Anybody else following this thread with the SR that could do some simple tests for us for comparison?

    How many people I wonder are running with faulty showers because of that multimeter because any house that would read 230V on it would need a actual voltage of 241V.
    As you say it would be great if some users of this model did a few simple tests.


  • #39
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    John.G wrote: »
    How many people I wonder are running with faulty showers because of that multimeter because any house that would read 230V on it would need a actual voltage of 241V.
    As you say it would be great if some users of this model did a few simple tests.
    Well there is the slim possibility that the multimeter was correct and at that time there was excessive load on the supply. * That wouldn’t account for continued poor performance of the shower though, but would give him reason to act as he did.

    *When my neighbor welds (rarely TG), I get a dip in power.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



  • #40
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Just put the multi meter on my own Triton T90SR. Meter has never been calibrated but its less than a year old. Good quality fluke.

    Voltage with shower off 236 volts & running the shower flat out it dropped to 226 volt but it functioned perfectly at that rate.

    Shower is downstairs. Cable run is 4 to 5 metres. 10mm cable to a 40 amp rcbo


  • #41
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Just put the multi meter on my own Triton T90SR. Meter has never been calibrated but its less than a year old. Good quality fluke.

    Voltage with shower off 236 volts & running the shower flat out it dropped to 226 volt but it functioned perfectly at that rate.

    Shower is downstairs. Cable run is 4 to 5 metres. 10mm cable to a 40 amp rcbo
    Do you measure the voltage at meter box AND close to shower? I am interested to know if any of that voltage drop was due to you ESB supply or tails.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



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  • #42
    John.G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭John.G


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Just put the multi meter on my own Triton T90SR. Meter has never been calibrated but its less than a year old. Good quality fluke.

    Voltage with shower off 236 volts & running the shower flat out it dropped to 226 volt but it functioned perfectly at that rate.

    Shower is downstairs. Cable run is 4 to 5 metres. 10mm cable to a 40 amp rcbo

    What about that jug test?, as your shower is obviously A1 then it would be interesting to see its flowrate now. I would expect around 3.6 to 3.9 LPM.


  • #43
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    John.G wrote: »
    What about that jug test?, as your shower is obviously A1 then it would be interesting to see its flowrate now. I would expect around 3.6 to 3.9 LPM.
    We have to get him into the attic as well John :D There'll be no sleep for sleeper now :pac::pac::pac:

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



  • #44
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Wearb wrote:
    Do you measure the voltage at meter box AND close to shower? I am interested to know if any of that voltage drop was due to you ESB supply or tails.

    236 at the meter & dropped to 230 with the shower on full.

    Resistance on the elements are 13 and 11


  • #45
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Wearb wrote:
    We have to get him into the attic as well John There'll be no sleep for sleeper now


    I'm not taking the ladder out of the van. Its a Saturday night ffs. :)


  • #46
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    236 at the meter & dropped to 230 with the shower on full.

    Resistance on the elements are 13 and 11
    That's well within the allowable drop afaik.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



  • #47
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    I'm not taking the ladder out of the van. Its a Saturday night ffs. :)
    Only 18:40 :rolleyes:

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



  • #48
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    John.G wrote:
    What about that jug test?, as your shower is obviously A1 then it would be interesting to see its flowrate now. I would expect around 3.6 to 3.9 LPM.


    Didn't put a thermometer on it but had it hot enough for a very hot shower its running around 3.3 litres per minute


  • #49
    John.G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭John.G


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    236 at the meter & dropped to 230 with the shower on full.

    Resistance on the elements are 13 and 11

    Those two resistances in parallel = total resistance of 5.96 ohms.

    Power output = 230*230/5.96/1000 = 8.89 KW so you definitely have a 9 KW shower.


  • #50
    John.G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,555 ✭✭✭John.G


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Didn't put a thermometer on it but had it hot enough for a very hot shower its running around 3.3 litres per minute

    That sounds spot on, gives a showering temp of around 45/46C.

    I think all this is very conclusive proof that this shower can produce the goods and Triton have just made another sale to my friend.


  • #51
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    John.G wrote:
    I think all this is very conclusive proof that this shower can produce the goods and Triton have just made another sale to my friend.


    It's a pity the engineer didn't replace Damoedges element. They are loosing what sounds like a lifelong customer by lazy diagnostics


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