Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781

Sangre · 29-11-2017 2:36pm

Buer wrote: »

Sangre wrote: »

I get the impression that most of these players don't actually enjoy their time in France notwithstanding the factors you've listed. Of course, there are always exceptions but from what I generally understand (usually from retired players so times may have changed) that the playing culture over there is not ideal. The players returning home are not talking up France.

I think the sample portion is too small to make a genuinely accurate assessment. We don't tend to hear much at all from the guys who love it because they're there long term and out of the picture.

Trevor Brennan is a walking advertisement for it. Aidan McCullen loved his time in France. David McGowan had a great time there with La Rochelle before injury called a halt to his career. Damien Browne had two stints sandwiched around his Leinster spell and was successful. There's a handul of lads at Pau who have settled very well and been successful. Mick O'Driscoll speaks highly of his time in Perpignan.

I don't know too many who went there and came back really critical of their time there, to be honest. Perhaps guys who struggled on the field to establish themselves?

Its a fair point. But there is an element of survivorship bias in that they will generally only be speaking to players who returned and not those staying long. However, if that is the players they are talking to then they will bear that in mind. Some players who haven't been impressed by France that I'm aware of are Sexton, Madigan, Nic White. Andy Goode and Jim Hamilton don't rate their times there too highly either. There are some other high profile examples that I'm struggling to name.

irishman86 · 29-11-2017 2:53pm

Don Kiddick wrote: »

At the detriment to the national team... knock on effect to the IRFU...and then the provinces.... financial suicide won't be happening, don't kid yourself

Well Zebo getting dropped is a detriment to the NT

Don Kiddick · 29-11-2017 3:10pm

irishman86 wrote: »

Well Zebo getting dropped is a detriment to the NT

Depends on who you ask

And I'm really looking at long term if enough players emigrate ...if you get 4-6 from each province...it could be serious

tooManyChoices · 29-11-2017 3:18pm

Sangre wrote: »

Its a fair point. But there is an element of survivorship bias in that they will generally only be speaking to players who returned and not those staying long. However, if that is the players they are talking to then they will bear that in mind. Some players who haven't been impressed by France that I'm aware of are Sexton, Madigan, Nic White. Andy Goode and Jim Hamilton don't rate their times there too highly either. There are some other high profile examples that I'm struggling to name.

Seems like the guys who like the place most are the ones who weren't that happy where the were and feel they weren't given a fair chance at the national team.

Guys like Iain Balshaw, David Strettle and the Armitage brothers.

Interested Observer · 29-11-2017 3:25pm

tooManyChoices wrote: »

Seems like the guys who like the place most are the ones who weren't that happy where the were and feel they weren't given a fair chance at the national team.

Guys like Iain Balshaw, David Strettle and the Armitage brothers.

There were a few Irish players at Pau who seemed to get on alright as well.

For someone like Sexton or POM it has to be a bit of a shock going from playing 8 league games a season to playing 20+.

irishman86 · 29-11-2017 3:29pm

Don Kiddick wrote: »

Depends on who you ask

And I'm really looking at long term if enough players emigrate ...if you get 4-6 from each province...it could be serious

It could easily happen. Why would a player stay for 200k when they can make 600k. For me its not that difficult a decision

tooManyChoices · 29-11-2017 3:37pm

Interested Observer wrote: »

There were a few Irish players at Pau who seemed to get on alright as well.

For someone like Sexton or POM it has to be a bit of a shock going from playing 8 league games a season to playing 20+.

Good point. It must be a lot more of a shock going to France from Ireland where players are well managed than from England where players are flogged almost as badly.

JPCN1 · 29-11-2017 3:46pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Can't see anyone getting picked if they move abroad at this stage. Unless about 10 players went at once.

Rightly so and even if 10 were to go it should not make a difference. There are worse things than losing and selling the future down the river to keep pace with French and English wage inflation is the road to ruin.
Anyway the 90's weren't that bad, really!

As mentioned as pro's they have to make those choices and should not be derided for moving.

ClanofLams · 29-11-2017 3:48pm

Is the Munster move to one base in Limerick a factor in these moves/rumours I wonder? Donnacha Ryan, Zebo and POM all lived in Cork as far as I know, not sure about Stander.

It was clearly the right move to have one base (a factor in Munsters improvement last season too) but it might be causing short term disruption if guys are having to either do a three hour commute or presumably more likely, spend another night or two a week away from home on top of all the travelling that's already done.

MJohnston · 29-11-2017 3:59pm

ClanofLams wrote: »

Is the Munster move to one base in Limerick a factor in these moves/rumours I wonder? Donnacha Ryan, Zebo and POM all lived in Cork as far as I know, not sure about Stander.

It was clearly the right move to have one base (a factor in Munsters improvement last season too) but it might be causing short term disruption if guys are having to either do a three hour commute or presumably more likely, spend another night or two a week away from home on top of all the travelling that's already done.

I reckon that's overthinking it. It's about money, and not in a greedy sense. In the sense that nearly every sports person has to think about - I'll be retired at 35 and have to support a family for probably 30 years on the income I've already made, unless I'm lucky enough to get one of the few sports related jobs out there.

MJohnston · 29-11-2017 4:03pm

MJohnston wrote: »

I reckon that's overthinking it. It's about money, and not in a greedy sense. In the sense that nearly every sports person has to think about - I'll be retired at 35 and have to support a family for probably 30 years on the income I've already made, unless I'm lucky enough to get one of the few sports related jobs out there.

As for why it might be happening in Munster more, it might well be down to the relative salaries in each province. Leinster and Ulster star players are probably going to be earning more there than a similar player at Munster (not to mention the C word).

errlloyd · 29-11-2017 4:06pm

Sangre wrote: »

Its a fair point. But there is an element of survivorship bias in that they will generally only be speaking to players who returned and not those staying long. However, if that is the players they are talking to then they will bear that in mind. Some players who haven't been impressed by France that I'm aware of are Sexton, Madigan, Nic White. Andy Goode and Jim Hamilton don't rate their times there too highly either. There are some other high profile examples that I'm struggling to name.

I wonder what Jimmy Gopperth thinks of his time in Ireland. I think it's possible people have individually tough times. Ben Te'o was another who was apparently not the happiest in Dublin despite being a fan favourite.

ClanofLams · 29-11-2017 4:09pm

MJohnston wrote: »

I reckon that's overthinking it. It's about money, and not in a greedy sense. In the sense that nearly every sports person has to think about - I'll be retired at 35 and have to support a family for probably 30 years on the income I've already made, unless I'm lucky enough to get one of the few sports related jobs out there.

I'd agree it's definitely mostly about money but just when you factor in the other things that may have kept them here, quality of life would surely rank high. And that must be strongly impacted by the move to one base especially if these lads have a home, partner and kids in Cork. Aside from Zebo, not sure how many do but presumably some do.

They're obviously away a lot as is. Now they have even more time spent away due to commuting/staying overnight in Limerick.

Former Former · 29-11-2017 4:18pm

MJohnston wrote: »

As for why it might be happening in Munster more, it might well be down to the relative salaries in each province. Leinster and Ulster star players are probably going to be earning more there than a similar player at Munster (not to mention the C word).

I'm not sure that's the case. Definitely not for the guys on central contracts and Most salaries for Irish guys on provincial contracts are paid by IRFU anyway; if there was a disparity, you'd see more guys moving internally and you'd have Leinster and Ulster poaching lads left right and centre.

stephen_n · 29-11-2017 4:31pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Can't see anyone getting picked if they move abroad at this stage. Unless about 10 players went at once.

Think Murray would test that theory, particularly with a release clause a la Sexton.

Yeah_Right · 29-11-2017 5:35pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Ah jaysus lads, not again.

Don't be upset molloy. I'm sure it will be a good match and the ABs won't hammer you. Twickenham will be a hiding but Dublin will be something similar to the 2013 game

molloyjh · 29-11-2017 5:38pm

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Don't be upset molloy. I'm sure it will be a good match and the ABs won't hammer you. Twickenham will be a hiding but Dublin will be something similar to the 2013 game

:eek:

You're a nasty, nasty man. I'll either have to remember this post forever or forget it's entire existence. I'll just have to wait a year to find out which it is to be.

Henwin · 29-11-2017 6:15pm

whats the story with Andrew Trimble, was he injured for the autumn internationals or just out of form. i hope he is involed in the 6 nations.

Burkie1203 · 29-11-2017 6:17pm

Sorry Thomond.

https://twitter.com/RugbyLAD7/status/935918905259945984

CIARAN_BOYLE · 29-11-2017 6:19pm

Henwin wrote: »

whats the story with Andrew Trimble, was he injured for the autumn internationals or just out of form. i hope he is involed in the 6 nations.

He is 33 and not in great form. He will be 35 during rwc 2019 and backs generally decline earlier than forwards. He is in the last year of his contract and unless his form picks up it may not be renewed.

Same position as Tommy Bowe really.

That said both did decently for Ulster in their last appearance. A rearrange in form may be underway.

Rigor Mortis · 29-11-2017 6:48pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Sorry Thomond.

https://twitter.com/RugbyLAD7/status/935918905259945984

Standers grand, but that O'Mahony lad has an awful habit of leaving the intensity in the dressing room

29-11-2017 6:54pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Sorry Thomond.

https://twitter.com/RugbyLAD7/status/935918905259945984

Don Kiddick wrote: »

Nah, our A team is grand thanks

:pac:

DGRulz · 29-11-2017 7:05pm

The jersey looks really good on them but very wrong at the same time.

bilston · 29-11-2017 7:14pm

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Henwin wrote: »

whats the story with Andrew Trimble, was he injured for the autumn internationals or just out of form. i hope he is involed in the 6 nations.

He is 33 and not in great form. He will be 35 during rwc 2019 and backs generally decline earlier than forwards. He is in the last year of his contract and unless his form picks up it may not be renewed.

Same position as Tommy Bowe really.

That said both did decently for Ulster in their last appearance. A rearrange in form may be underway.

To be fair Bowe has been pretty good all season. Trimble not so, but did well the other night. I doubt either will play for Ireland again.

pickarooney · 29-11-2017 7:36pm

Former Former wrote: »

I'm not sure that's the case. Definitely not for the guys on central contracts and Most salaries for Irish guys on provincial contracts are paid by IRFU anyway; if there was a disparity, you'd see more guys moving internally and you'd have Leinster and Ulster poaching lads left right and centre.

I doubt there'd be less travelling with a French club.

MattD · 29-11-2017 8:00pm

Hard to see anyone break into the back 3 squads over the next couple of years or so ahead of Stockdale, Earls, Kearney, Sweetnam, Conway + AN Other which could be any one of Payne, Dave K or A. Byrne.

irishbucsfan · 29-11-2017 8:10pm

MattD wrote: »

Hard to see anyone break into the back 3 squads over the next couple of years or so ahead of Stockdale, Earls, Kearney, Sweetnam, Conway + AN Other which could be any one of Payne, Dave K or A. Byrne.

I would like to prescribe you one dose of Jordan Larmour, to be taken once daily for the next 3 days.

https://streamable.com/f4c0t

Neil3030 · 29-11-2017 8:20pm

Don't think I've ever seen a defender get stepped into a pretzel before.

29-11-2017 8:43pm

MattD wrote: »

Hard to see anyone break into the back 3 squads over the next couple of years or so ahead of Stockdale, Earls, Kearney, Sweetnam, Conway + AN Other which could be any one of Payne, Dave K or A. Byrne.

Of those I only really rate Earls and to a degree Kearney.

Stockdale looks terrific but I'll hold judgment until we see him in the six nations.

The rest are good players but not anything closed to nailed on.

bilston · 29-11-2017 9:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

MattD wrote: »

Hard to see anyone break into the back 3 squads over the next couple of years or so ahead of Stockdale, Earls, Kearney, Sweetnam, Conway + AN Other which could be any one of Payne, Dave K or A. Byrne.

Of those I only really rate Earls and to a degree Kearney.

Stockdale looks terrific but I'll hold judgment until we see him in the six nations.

The rest are good players but not anything closed to nailed on.

In fairness Stockdale scores too many tries to be nailed on in a Joe Schmidt team so I can see your point.

Is Larmour's future at 15 or wing?

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781