Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

CIARAN_BOYLE

Stockdale looks like a certainty for the six nations squad and if he matches his potential and has a break out championship ala Tommy Bowe and Keith Earls in 2010 he could nail his colours to the mast for the next two lions serieses.

That's a big question though. It's more likely he wil have a decent tournament score a try or two and not make massive waves.

aloooof

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Stockdale looks like a certainty for the six nations squad and if he matches his potential and has a break out championship ala Tommy Bowe and Keith Earls in 2010 he could nail his colours to the mast for the next two lions serieses.

That's a big question though. It's more likely he wil have a decent tournament score a try or two and not make massive waves.

Ah, can we just rein it in a bit and give the 4 times capped, 21 year old a chance to bed in, without mentioning the next 2 Lions series? The next is 3 and a half years away!

You've also mentioned Earls as a comparison; Even Earls, who was in fantastic form, failed to make the Lions squad.

Interested Observer

aloooof wrote: »

You've also mentioned Earls as a comparison; Even Earls, who was in fantastic form, failed to make the Lions squad.

Earls toured in 2009, though don't think he made the matchday squad for any of the tests.

The Lions is an absolutely crap barometer of who is better than who anyway imo. A certain cohort of posters on here have liked to use "but but but he was a Lion!" as some sort of trump card in any argument but it's nonsense. For every BOD there's a Matt Stevens.

errlloyd

Interested Observer wrote: »

Earls toured in 2009, though don't think he made the matchday squad for any of the tests.

The Lions is an absolutely crap barometer of who is better than who anyway imo. A certain cohort of posters on here have liked to use "but but but he was a Lion!" as some sort of trump card in any argument but it's nonsense. For every BOD there's a Matt Stevens.

He had an absolute mare in a warm up game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0yRPlA8bO8

twinytwo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Can't see anyone getting picked if they move abroad at this stage. Unless about 10 players went at once.

Of the current crop.. SOB, Murray, Furlong and Henshaw would get picked. Dont kid yourself.

irishbucsfan

twinytwo wrote: »

Of the current crop.. SOB, Murray, Furlong and Henshaw would get picked. Dont kid yourself.

I really don't think there's a chance they would. Maybe Murray at a stretch, but I don't see why.

errlloyd

errlloyd wrote: »

He had an absolute mare in a warm up game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0yRPlA8bO8

Mad to think they had the Lions playing Connacht back in the day.

arsebiscuits1

twinytwo wrote: »

Of the current crop.. SOB, Murray, Furlong and Henshaw would get picked. Dont kid yourself.

Not a snowballs SOB or Henshaw would get picked.

The drop off in class between those lads and those below them isn't massive.

Furlong would only be a maybe too

stephen_n

twinytwo wrote: »

Of the current crop.. SOB, Murray, Furlong and Henshaw would get picked. Dont kid yourself.

Henshaw may not make the starting 15 for the 6N, so I have no idea why you would think that. There isn't a backrow who would get his start if he moved abroad, not SOB, not anyone.

Sephiral

Deleted User wrote: »

Jamie Roberts???

I thought it was Michael Murphy.

Former Former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I really don't think there's a chance they would. Maybe Murray at a stretch, but I don't see why.

This keeps coming round and round.

No-one would be picked. Not Sexton, not Murray, none of them.

irishbucsfan

Former Former wrote: »

This keeps coming round and round.

No-one would be picked. Not Sexton, not Murray, none of them.

I said before that I think it might happen if like 10 players all left at once. That's probably the only scenario where I can see it happening.

Former Former

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I said before that I think it might happen if like 10 players all left at once. That's probably the only scenario where I can see it happening.

Yeah, true.

And then Sexton vs Murray vs Furlong is the least of our problems.

thomond2006

mfceiling wrote: »

He's playing for Ulster. The best he could achieve is a gallant defeat in the league semi finals.

Somewhere Buer is raging he didn't think of this first.

joseywhales

I'm pretty excited about Aki, I think he could be vital come the world cup if he can add 10% handling and speed. Since BOD only SOB can consistently create line breaks against tier one defence outside of set plays. Is playing smart, having perfect defence,set plays and tactical kicking good enough to reach WC semi's and final(obviously they are a prerequisite)? I think similar to england, our attacking game needs a few more options. It's awesome that Aki is in the team to share that line breaking/offloading load, I wish Naholo had an irish granny.

Jump_In_Jack

joseywhales wrote: »

I'm pretty excited about Aki, I think he could be vital come the world cup if he can add 10% handling and speed. Since BOD only SOB can consistently create line breaks against tier one defence outside of set plays. Is playing smart, having perfect defence,set plays and tactical kicking good enough to reach WC semi's and final(obviously they are a prerequisite)? I think similar to england, our attacking game needs a few more options. It's awesome that Aki is in the team to share that line breaking/offloading load, I wish Naholo had an irish granny.

Naholo's youngest brother is highly rated and was bought in by NZ, could offer him more money to come here instead.

Edit: Waisake himself has paid for his brothers to move to NZ, in hopes they will repeat his success. Surprised France haven't already tried to sign him. Nothing to stop Ireland making an offer. They clearly don't care about representing their home nation if they can cash in elswhere.

sydthebeat

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

They clearly don't care about representing their home nation if they can cash in elswhere.

That's a bit of an ignorant comment without reflection on the poverty of the village in Fiji where they come from.

Sangre

sydthebeat wrote: »

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

They clearly don't care about representing their home nation if they can cash in elswhere.

That's a bit of an ignorant comment without reflection on the poverty of the village in Fiji where they come from.

That's a bit racist assuming they are poor just because they come from a poor village in Fiji.  A Fijian can be just as money grubbing as any person.

RichieRich89

I suspect the OP meant Nadolo. Some people seem to mix up Naholo and Nadolo for some reason.

prawnsambo

Sangre wrote: »

That's a bit racist assuming they are poor just because they come from a poor village in Fiji. A Fijian can be just as money grubbing as any person.

It's a matter of record that Waisake supports his parents and family from his own earnings.

Former Former

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

They clearly don't care about representing their home nation if they can cash in elswhere.

Does that make them any different to Zebo or Madigan?

Buer

RichieRich89 wrote:

I suspect the OP meant Nadolo. Some people seem to mix up Naholo and Nadolo for some reason.

Idiots.

sydthebeat

Sangre wrote: »

That's a bit racist assuming they are poor just because they come from a poor village in Fiji.  A Fijian can be just as money grubbing as any person.

I'm not assuming anything

1eg0a3xv7b82of

these are professional rugby players, every professional is cashing in by doing something they are good at.
sexton left because of a principle and he was right too, being fair a principle he quickly forgot when interviewed after zebo said he was off.
when it comes to salaries of course it is about the money but mostly its about respect.
the non centrally contracted players will want to be centrally contracted, the centrally contracted players will want the 2 marquee players salaries, and the 2 marquee players will always want to be the highest paid.
when it comes to negotiating players contracts, the problem is the irfu first have to match their own internal pay benchmarks and their is the nub of the problem.

Jump_In_Jack

sydthebeat wrote: »

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

They clearly don't care about representing their home nation if they can cash in elswhere.

That's a bit of an ignorant comment without reflection on the poverty of the village in Fiji where they come from.

It's a factual comment.
Were I in their shoes no doubt I'd do the exact same.
If you read any interviews they have clearly stated as much.
They are Fijian but hope to play for New Zealand so they can make as much money as possible to support their family and go to good schools.
Playing for Fiji would be a fall back, not a first choice.
They could just as well have chosen France or Ireland, especially if more money was on offer.
Albeit, there would undoubtedly be more prestige in getting into the New Zealand team.

sydthebeat

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

It's a factual comment.
Were I in their shoes no doubt I'd do the exact same.
If you read any interviews they have clearly stated as much.
They are Fijian but hope to play for New Zealand so they can make as much money as possible to support their family and go to good schools.
Playing for Fiji would be a fall back, not a first choice.
That could just as well have chosen France or Ireland, especially if more money was on offer.
Albeit, there would undoubtedly be more prestige in getting into the New Zealand team.

To say they clearly don't care about representing their country is plainly wrong though.

The lure of playing for their national team is not the same as it is here because its not the zenith of their rugby careers, especially if they have been playing in a different country since they were teenagers.

The biggest blight of international rugby is the rape of the Pacific Islands by other countries due to the economic chasm that's exists.
The most a rugby player in Fiji could earn at home is about €10 a year playing international sevens. A basic super rugby contract would be about ten times that. A marquee contract would be exponential of that.

Its actually with a sense of pride that the Fijians at home view their boys who represent teams like the all Blacks or France or Australia, as they know how hard they have to work to get there. There a no resentment for not representing Fiji in international fifteens.

Jump_In_Jack

Former Former wrote: »

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

They clearly don't care about representing their home nation if they can cash in elswhere.

Does that make them any different to Zebo or Madigan?

Yes.

Jump_In_Jack

sydthebeat wrote: »

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

It's a factual comment.
Were I in their shoes no doubt I'd do the exact same.
If you read any interviews they have clearly stated as much.
They are Fijian but hope to play for New Zealand so they can make as much money as possible to support their family and go to good schools.
Playing for Fiji would be a fall back, not a first choice.
That could just as well have chosen France or Ireland, especially if more money was on offer.
Albeit, there would undoubtedly be more prestige in getting into the New Zealand team.

To say they clearly don't care about representing their country is plainly wrong though.

The lure of playing for their national team is not the same as it is here because its not the zenith of their rugby careers, especially if they have been playing in a different country since they were teenagers.

The biggest blight of international rugby is the rape of the Pacific Islands by other countries due to the economic chasm that's exists.
The most a rugby player in Fiji could earn at home is about €10 a year playing international sevens. A basic super rugby contract would be about ten times that. A marquee contract would be exponential of that.

Its actually with a sense of pride that the Fijians at home view their boys who represent teams like the all Blacks or France or Australia, as they know how hard they have to work to get there. There a no resentment for not representing Fiji in international fifteens.

The Naholos don't care about representing Fiji if they could be paid for playing for another country.
That's not plainly wrong.
It's a fact.
Like it or not.

irishbucsfan

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

The Naholos don't care about representing Fiji if they could be paid for playing for another country.
That's not plainly wrong.
It's a fact.
Like it or not.

Every day you learn something new.

Today I learned that caring is binary. You either care about something or you don't. For example, you cannot possibly care about your country but care about feeding your family more. You either CARE 100% or you CARE 0%.

And if you are somehow slightly unconvinced by this argument, then let me seal the deal by reminding you that this is a fact whether or not you like it, so there.

Jump_In_Jack

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

The Naholos don't care about representing Fiji if they could be paid for playing for another country.
That's not plainly wrong.
It's a fact.
Like it or not.

Every day you learn something new.

Today I learned that caring is binary. You either care about something or you don't. For example, you cannot possibly care about your country but care about feeding your family more. You either CARE 100% or you CARE 0%.

And if you are somehow slightly unconvinced by this argument, then let me seal the deal by reminding you that this is a fact whether or not you like it, so there.

Oh good, semantics.
Replace "don't care about representing Fiji" with "will choose without compunction not to represent Fiji".