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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

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    #5252
    Bazzo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    Am I the only one annoyed at the earlier and earlier everyone is getting worked up about contract renewals? Am I imagining it or did there used to be barely a peep about contracts until some time in the new year. Now the panic seems to be setting in from nearly the start of the season.


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    #5253
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Bazzo wrote: »
    Am I the only one annoyed at the earlier and earlier everyone is getting worked up about contract renewals? Am I imagining it or did there used to be barely a peep about contacts until some time in the new year. Now the panic seems to be setting in from nearly the start of the season.

    Probably because the contracts are now being done earlier after the Sexton debacle.


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    #5254
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Bazzo wrote: »
    Am I the only one annoyed at the earlier and earlier everyone is getting worked up about contract renewals? Am I imagining it or did there used to be barely a peep about contracts until some time in the new year. Now the panic seems to be setting in from nearly the start of the season.

    Actually this is the part I get annoyed with regardless of when it happens.

    The IRFU get a lot of shade thrown their way (much of which is proven to be categorically false) along with suggestions of favouritism and other nonsense when the reality is that we are completely in the dark regarding these negotiations and the demands and intentions of all parties involved in the negotiations.

    That the media are involved for the sake of optics and pressure is a reality we have to live with, but one which pollutes the discourse and misleads fans into conflict with other fans or the IRFU.


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    #5255
    swiwi_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,486 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    England...and Ireland next autumn for NZ. Juicy.


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    #5256
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    swiwi_ wrote: »
    England...and Ireland next autumn for NZ. Juicy.

    Proper warm up for them. Seems money agreements have kept England and NZ apart a long time now, wonder who extended the olive branch.


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    #5257
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 5,972 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    swiwi_ wrote: »
    England...and Ireland next autumn for NZ. Juicy.

    Looking forward to giving these NH upstarts a rugby lesson in their own backyards :D


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    #5258
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    timaru89 wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro14/cj-stander-could-join-peter-o-mahony-in-leaving-munster-1.3308835

    So, some French club is going to double the offer that IRFU have made POM, and now some French club is going to triple Stander's money?

    I think there are a few agents chancing their arms here.


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    #5259
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Former Former wrote: »
    So, some French club is going to double the offer that IRFU have made POM, and now some French club is going to triple Stander's money?

    I think there are a few agents chancing their arms here.

    I think they're talking about doubling POM's new offer and tripling Stander's old contar=ract. It's not too hard to imagine that POM's new central contract might be worth 50% more than Stander's old provincial contract and that they'd be worth twice that in France. Stander could easily go after 600k in France I'd say based on previous Midol numbers.


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    #5260
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,193 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Former Former wrote: »
    So, some French club is going to double the offer that IRFU have made POM, and now some French club is going to triple Stander's money?

    I think there are a few agents chancing their arms here.

    Possibly but possibly not. CJ Stander signed his current two year deal as an uncapped player in 2015 at 25 years of age. He has gone on to serious things since then including becoming an important player for Ireland and a Lion.

    I don't think it's out of the question that CJS signed a deal for about €200k at that point and is being offered €600k from France now.


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    #5261
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,331 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Buer wrote: »
    Possibly but possibly not. CJ Stander signed his current two year deal as an uncapped player in 2015 at 25 years of age. He has gone on to serious things since then including becoming an important player for Ireland and a Lion.

    I don't think it's out of the question that CJS signed a deal for about €200k at that point and is being offered €600k from France now.
    Stander leaving you say?

    62d826437c13eb1f79ef31cd56892def.gif

    :D


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    #5262
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    Yeah, I guess it's possible depending on what is meant. I take all these things with an enormous pinch of salt though. I'm still bristling at the "Francis Saili is on 500k per annum" nonsense that was so widely swallowed here.

    Stander getting 600k would make him one of the best paid players in France. Whether it's true or not, that info could only have come from one place...


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    #5263
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,031 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    I'll believe these guys are leaving when I see it, but the usual headlines are "contract talks stall" etc while with POM in particular it's been widely reported that he has rejected a contract from the IRFU, which is a bit of a concern.


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    #5264
    irishfan9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭irishfan9


    Silly season is well and truely off.


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    #5265
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,193 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    I don't believe Stander will leave at all and is just looking for the best deal he can get from the IRFU. He has already uprooted his life once and I don't see him as the nomadic type. I reckon POM is loathe to leave but is also eager to net himself a big pay day as he should be.

    I'd be confident both will be at Munster next season and, worst case scenario, POM is on a 1 year deal and agrees to renegotiate for life after the RWC at which point he may depart. I don't think they'd cut him if he announced his departure in advance of the RWC similar to how Zebo has been as he'd still be present for the World Cup cycle which they're obviously building towards.


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    #5266
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    Even aside from the on-pitch loss of Stander, can you imagine the sh*t storm if a project player bailed out on Ireland two years after qualifying to play? Jaysus it would be unbearable. We should just give him whatever he wants.


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    #5267
    irishman86
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭irishman86


    salmocab wrote: »
    Sexton had a clause from the start with Racing that he could attend all Irish camps so it is different plus Sexton is and at that time was especially absolutely vital to the Irish team. The drop off after Sexton at 10 is bigger than at any other position.

    Shouldnt matter tbh, if they go chasing money they should have no part in the squad
    Regardless of the drop off


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    #5268
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    irishman86 wrote: »
    Shouldnt matter tbh, if they go chasing money they should have no part in the squad
    Regardless of the drop off

    sexton was on silly money in France. even with that he had a contract term that he could make all training camps even outside of windows.

    if he didn't have that clause he would have been paid more than 100k per annum more. if anyone goes chasing the money and still takes a big pay cut so they can attend camps the Irish management should consider it. not saying they have to pick thsee players bit they should be considered.


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    #5269
    irishman86
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭irishman86


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    sexton was on silly money in France. even with that he had a contract term that he could make all training camps even outside of windows.

    if he didn't have that clause he would have been paid more than 100k per annum more. if anyone goes chasing the money and still takes a big pay cut so they can attend camps the Irish management should consider it. not saying they have to pick thsee players bit they should be considered.

    But hes not available for provinces, like i said regardless of money he shouldnt be picked. For Sexton it was a case of having your cake and eating it


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    #5270
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    irishman86 wrote: »
    Shouldnt matter tbh, if they go chasing money they should have no part in the squad
    Regardless of the drop off

    Apologies if I've misunderstood your intent, but comments like this come across to me as begrudgery. They are professional athletes, they are not "chasing money".


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    #5271
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,031 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Apologies if I've misunderstood your intent, but comments like this come across to me as begrudgery. They are professional athletes, they are not "chasing money".

    Well they kind of are, but point is that's not some terrible thing to do.

    People basically use it as in insult or an attack on a players character, which is puerile.


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    #5272
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,193 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    I'll never understand people having a bitterness towards a player who departs for France. How many of us would go to the warm weather of France for 2 years for crazy money to do something they love and probably be able to return to a province after that being set up for life?

    I'm genuinely bewildered as to how the IRFU have managed to keep so many of their top players in Ireland.


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    #5273
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    Looking forward to giving these NH upstarts a rugby lesson in their own backyards :D

    Ah jaysus lads, not again. :(
    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Apologies if I've misunderstood your intent, but comments like this come across to me as begrudgery. They are professional athletes, they are not "chasing money".

    Well they are in the same way that when any normal person is looking at other job offers they try to ensure they get the best package possible.


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    #5274
    irishman86
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭irishman86


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Apologies if I've misunderstood your intent, but comments like this come across to me as begrudgery. They are professional athletes, they are not "chasing money".

    You did, i 100% understand the choice they make, ive done it myself. But its a choice between money and your country currently and Zebo for example selected money & obviously the chance to experience a different life "Rightfully imo"


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    #5275
    Sangre
    Registered Users Posts: 12,153 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    Buer wrote: »
    I'll never understand people having a bitterness towards a player who departs for France. How many of us would go to the warm weather of France for 2 years for crazy money to do something they love and probably be able to return to a province after that being set up for life?

    I'm genuinely bewildered as to how the IRFU have managed to keep so many of their top players in Ireland.
    I get the impression that most of these players don't actually enjoy their time in France notwithstanding the factors you've listed.  Of course, there are always exceptions but from what I generally understand (usually from retired players so times may have changed) that the playing culture over there is not ideal.  The players returning home are not talking up France.


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    #5276
    irishman86
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭irishman86


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    Well they kind of are, but point is that's not some terrible thing to do.

    People basically use it as in insult or an attack on a players character, which is puerile.
    Buer wrote: »
    I'll never understand people having a bitterness towards a player who departs for France. How many of us would go to the warm weather of France for 2 years for crazy money to do something they love and probably be able to return to a province after that being set up for life?

    I'm genuinely bewildered as to how the IRFU have managed to keep so many of their top players in Ireland.

    Just to clear it up, im not against them leaving and 100% understand why they do.
    When Sexton left at the time i was all for it, id be more against the selection process than a player trying it in another country


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    #5277
    Don Kiddick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭Don Kiddick


    irishman86 wrote: »
    Shouldnt matter tbh, if they go chasing money they should have no part in the squad
    Regardless of the drop off

    At the detriment to the national team... knock on effect to the IRFU...and then the provinces.... financial suicide won't be happening, don't kid yourself


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    #5278
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Can't see anyone getting picked if they move abroad at this stage. Unless about 10 players went at once.


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    #5279
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,550 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Can't see anyone getting picked if they move abroad at this stage.

    I don't really think that is up for debate here, it's more about the timing of when they stop getting picked when it's announced that they're moving.

    I already posted a lot of waffle about what I think influences the timing.


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    #5280
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,193 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Sangre wrote: »
    I get the impression that most of these players don't actually enjoy their time in France notwithstanding the factors you've listed.  Of course, there are always exceptions but from what I generally understand (usually from retired players so times may have changed) that the playing culture over there is not ideal.  The players returning home are not talking up France.

    I think the sample portion is too small to make a genuinely accurate assessment. We don't tend to hear much at all from the guys who love it because they're there long term and out of the picture.

    Trevor Brennan is a walking advertisement for it. Aidan McCullen loved his time in France. David McGowan had a great time there with La Rochelle before injury called a halt to his career. Damien Browne had two stints sandwiched around his Leinster spell and was successful. There's a handul of lads at Pau who have settled very well and been successful. Mick O'Driscoll speaks highly of his time in Perpignan.

    I don't know too many who went there and came back really critical of their time there, to be honest. Perhaps guys who struggled on the field to establish themselves?


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    #5281
    Sangre
    Registered Users Posts: 12,153 ✭✭✭✭Sangre


    Buer wrote: »
    Sangre wrote: »
    I get the impression that most of these players don't actually enjoy their time in France notwithstanding the factors you've listed.  Of course, there are always exceptions but from what I generally understand (usually from retired players so times may have changed) that the playing culture over there is not ideal.  The players returning home are not talking up France.

    I think the sample portion is too small to make a genuinely accurate assessment. We don't tend to hear much at all from the guys who love it because they're there long term and out of the picture.

    Trevor Brennan is a walking advertisement for it. Aidan McCullen loved his time in France. David McGowan had a great time there with La Rochelle before injury called a halt to his career. Damien Browne had two stints sandwiched around his Leinster spell and was successful. There's a handul of lads at Pau who have settled very well and been successful. Mick O'Driscoll speaks highly of his time in Perpignan.

    I don't know too many who went there and came back really critical of their time there, to be honest. Perhaps guys who struggled on the field to establish themselves?
    Its a fair point.  But there is an element of survivorship bias in that they will generally only be speaking to players who returned and not those staying long.  However, if that is the players they are talking to then they will bear that in mind. Some players who haven't been impressed by France that I'm aware of are Sexton, Madigan, Nic White.  Andy Goode and Jim Hamilton don't rate their times there too highly either.    There are some other high profile examples that I'm struggling to name.


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