Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Man and woman shot dead, two others injured in Dublin gangland shooting

135

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,067 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn



    Compare molly martens and her dad,getting 25 years in jail in America to Eamon lillis who smashed his wifes head in with a brick gettin 5 years and thats were the a lot of the problem lies. Irish justice system is a joke.

    Well the murder rate is a lot higher in the US per 100,000 so their system is nothing to be proud of!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt


    All Law is is one class of people imposing their rules on another class of people. Without access to the professions for poorer kids, women, ethnic groups, etc, we won't get the required diversity we need in Law in Ireland.

    Many, many reasons why sentencing can be a joke in this country. On reason is the judges of their likes don't need to live next to this chap with the 100 convictions or put up with him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    myshirt wrote: »
    Part of the problem is these kids are born into dysfunctional social and economic environments that 'the rest of us' ignore. It's not our problem, it's not on our doorstep. F#ck them. Scumbags.

    However, that scumbag that you meet on the Red line was once a kid, and there are currently kids in Ireland still born into appalling circumstances that no kid should be born into. They are watching an old tape of Superman and believe that maybe some day maybe someone like Superman will come and rescue them. But Superman is not coming. This is Ireland.

    Without any help, these kids develop impaired coping strategies for their life challenges and have really bad social, emotional, and financial resources to swim against the tide and meet the challenge of the world they were given.

    Victimisation, poverty, no role models, low self esteem, piss poor parenting, abuse, drugs, traumatisation, social isolation, paranoid behaviour, violence, suicide, all shared experiences which can enhance a 'group identify' and create hostility, hopelessness, or outright disdain for civilised society. There are even epigenetic effects to socioeconomic disadvantage and a devastating impact on a person's development from the introduction of stressors into their lives from a young age.

    Regardless of where you stand on social policy, the reality is you either spend the money at the start or you spend it at the end. You spend it on the kid needing help, or you spend it on the kid when you meet him as a 21 year old criminal, drug addict, welfare recipient, or whatever. Assuming he is not in the river, as suicides very high in socioeconomic disadvantage communities. Not only if you invest in tackling socioeconomic disadvantage issues can you get better outcomes, you also get more bang for your buck. It's way more expensive dealing with it when it is too late.

    I am not excusing anyone's appalling crimes, but I am saying that we have to face up to a big problem we have, and that is short changing kids dealt a bad hand in life. It is disgusting what these scumbags are after doing in broad daylight and the environment young people have to live in. We permit socioeconomic issues to persist as long as it doesn't hit the leafy suburbs of South Dublin. It's just not good enough that thousands of kids are in hotels tonight. We can do better.

    I have tried to explain all that before numerous times, it is easier for these people living in a bubble to just look down on and hate everybody than it is for them to really think about the issue and understand it. So unfortunately you will waste your time here, but I really do appreciate you trying.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man



    According to these figures Ireland has the eighth lowest rate of homicide in all of Europe, based on its 2015 figures. The only "countries" with a better record were Monaco, Liechtenstein, San Marino, Andorra (all of whom had NO murders in the years in whcih they were measured) Austria, Norway and Netherlands.

    The seven worst countries were all former members of the Soviet Union: Russia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Latvia, Belarus, Estonia , Moldova.

    Sounds like we're a pretty dangerous place overall, right enough. :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    Are our homicide figures reliable? I thought it was found recently that certain death were not being correctly categorised.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    Are our homicide figures reliable? I thought it was found recently that certain death were not being correctly categorised.

    Fairly sure most homicides would be obvious, the ones that are miscategorized would be a percentage of a percent.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    tomofson wrote: »
    Fairly sure most homicides would be obvious, the ones that are miscategorized would be a percentage of a percent.

    No I think it was more serious than that - multiple homicides recorded as one for example. Murder suicide recorded as suicide. Either way, we have to follow accepted international norms for recording if we are to make comparisons, particularly to our near European neighbours. I don't think 2015 figures would be truly accurate for that purpose.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    No I think it was more serious than that - multiple homicides recorded as one for example. Murder suicide recorded as suicide. Either way, we have to follow accepted international norms for recording if we are to make comparisons, particularly to our near European neighbours. I don't think 2015 figures would be truly accurate for that purpose.

    It would be fairly hard to brush multiple homicides under the carpet especially in this day and age but okay.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    Well the murder rate is a lot higher in the US per 100,000 so their system is nothing to be proud of!

    Could you imagine what our murder rate would be, if we had the same access to guns as what they do??? From what ive seen in america, the sentences they give for violent crime is correct


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,651 ✭✭✭political analyst


    According to today's (17 August) Irish Times (See broadsheet.ie), the target was a man who has a violent criminal past. When he fled the scene, the gunmen went into the house and killed his sister.

    If they wanted to kill him, why didn't the gunmen chase him? Why would they kill his sister - she was inside the house and thus couldn't have seen them when they were outside the house?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,651 ✭✭✭political analyst


    myshirt wrote: »
    All Law is is one class of people imposing their rules on another class of people. Without access to the professions for poorer kids, women, ethnic groups, etc, we won't get the required diversity we need in Law in Ireland.

    Many, many reasons why sentencing can be a joke in this country. On reason is the judges of their likes don't need to live next to this chap with the 100 convictions or put up with him.

    Why would judges from privileged backgrounds be sympathetic to criminals from the north side of the Liffey? It doesn't make sense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,651 ✭✭✭political analyst




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,067 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Could you imagine what our murder rate would be, if we had the same access to guns as what they do??? From what ive seen in america, the sentences they give for violent crime is correct

    My point is that all these big harsh sentences don't seem to deter people in the US. It's easy to get your hands on a gun in Ireland.


  • Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭scoey


    Amirani wrote: »
    Following your logic to it's conclusion; anyone who is actively against the legalisation of illegal drugs has blood on their hands is evening. But you not what, it's a terrible line of reasoning so let's not use it maybe?

    And how exactly is that the logical conclusion of what the poster you quoted said?

    Is legalisation the only possible option?

    I am going to name two wealthy countries which have a low streetcrime/murder rate/visible use of illegal drugs. Japan and Singapore.
    Neither have achieved this through legalisation or a public acceptance of either soft or hard drug use, in fact quite the opposite.

    Have you considered that people who push for legalisation may be pushing an agenda because they like drugs?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,048 ✭✭✭Rumpy Pumpy


    The Traveller culture is one that is in utter crisis at the moment.

    The traveller lifestyle was destroyed in the early 70's; when very well-meaning politicians and civil servants decided that the best course of action was to place a nomadic people within a social welfare structure that could be delivered by the EEU. There has been very little positive outcomes since for travellers. They are now seen as criminals, wife beaters, and losers.

    The tragedy is that there is genuine craftsmanship, story telling, and history within the tradition.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 386 ✭✭Spider Web


    ChikiChiki wrote: »
    Terrible atrocity. F**king hell the amount of gang related murders is racking up yet people are going out of their way to declare Ireland is a safe country. Innocent people are being murdered.
    But nobody is going out of their way at all. You're zoning in on gangland violence, which is certainly an extremely dangerous world, whereas people who say Ireland is a safe country are not just looking at gangland violence - they're looking at a much bigger picture: Ireland in its entirety. The vast vast majority of people in Ireland are not connected to gangland violence - a dangerous yet minority world.

    Your average person does not have to worry about being attacked or shot.

    There are countries, like Venezuela, where the general populace are constantly in fear that they could be killed. It's utterly dishonest to suggest Ireland is such a country.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,414 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    Can we keep this on topic?

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Uriel.


    The Traveller culture is one that is in utter crisis at the moment.

    The traveller lifestyle was destroyed in the early 70's; when very well-meaning politicians and civil servants decided that the best course of action was to place a nomadic people within a social welfare structure that could be delivered by the EEU. There has been very little positive outcomes since for travellers. They are now seen as criminals, wife beaters, and losers.

    The tragedy is that there is genuine craftsmanship, story telling, and history within the tradition.

    In a lot instances they are criminals etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭Uriel.



    Hard to piece it altogether. Did the gunman deliberately kill the sister? Seems like he did,seems to be suggesting that the target got away so they decided to kill his sister as a "**** you" kind of action.

    Was the other victim sitting in a car at the time? Or was he also in the house?

    Again, while it may not be related to the ongoing kinahan /Hutch "feud" it does seem like another gangland act flowing from the kinahans. When are we going to start to get real about gangland crime in terms of laws and sentencings.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    The Traveller culture is one that is in utter crisis at the moment.

    The traveller lifestyle was destroyed in the early 70's; when very well-meaning politicians and civil servants decided that the best course of action was to place a nomadic people within a social welfare structure that could be delivered by the EEU. There has been very little positive outcomes since for travellers. They are now seen as criminals, wife beaters, and losers.

    The tragedy is that there is genuine craftsmanship, story telling, and history within the tradition.

    Is that relevant to this case?


  • Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭scoey


    Uriel. wrote: »
    When are we going to start to get real about gangland crime in terms of laws and sentencings.

    Never.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    Spider Web wrote: »
    But nobody is going out of their way at all. You're zoning in on gangland violence, which is certainly an extremely dangerous world, whereas people who say Ireland is a safe country are not just looking at gangland violence - they're looking at a much bigger picture: Ireland in its entirety. The vast vast majority of people in Ireland are not connected to gangland violence - a dangerous yet minority world.

    Your average person does not have to worry about being attacked or shot.

    There are countries, like Venezuela, where the general populace are constantly in fear that they could be killed. It's utterly dishonest to suggest Ireland is such a country.

    I'm not suggesting Ireland is such a country. What annoys me is people still make excuses and bring out that line "one of the safest countries in the world" everytime something like this happens.

    These gangs are running amok in Dublin and there is a huge heroin crisis on the streets of the city that is not being addressed. Instead of settling for less we should be expecting more otherwise it will get worse. The guards know exactly who is involved. Not enough is being done imo from a force that jumps from crisis to crisis.

    Lets not settle for less ffs as we tend to do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭scoey


    ChikiChiki wrote: »
    I'm not suggesting Ireland is such a country. What annoys me is people still make excuses and bring out that line "one of the safest countries in the world" everytime something like this happens.

    These gangs are running amok in Dublin and there is a huge heroin crisis on the streets of the city that is not being addressed. Instead of settling for less we should be expecting more otherwise it will get worse. The guards know exactly who is involved. Not enough is being done imo from a force that jumps from crisis to crisis.

    Lets not settle for less ffs as we tend to do.


    As long as we can compare Ireland's crime rate favourably to the USA and third world countries, most people are content to do the usual empty moaning and shrug their shoulders and there certainly won't be any widespread call for clamping down on criminality.

    The problem is that some of these problems don't have softly softly solutions and require harsh responses from authorities to put back in their boxes, and that is something that isn't going to happen in any western European country.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,972 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    We need to decide on a course of action and there's a straight choice:

    Massive crackdown on drug dealers and drug users;

    Or,

    Legalise drugs.

    The current situation ain't working and our cowardly political classes don't mind. Terrified of losing a few votes if they go for the later, yet not willing to fund the former.


  • Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭scoey


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    We need to decide on a course of action and there's a straight choice:

    Massive crackdown on drug dealers and drug users;

    Or,

    Legalise drugs.

    The current situation ain't working and our cowardly political classes don't mind. Terrified of losing a few votes if they go for the later, yet not willing to fund the former.

    What are we to legalise? All drugs?

    And then, when all drugs are legal, what if criminals don't just shrug their shoulders and get jobs packing shelves down the local supermarket. What if they move on to killing each other and innocent people in the wrong place at the wrong time over some other lucrative area of criminality.

    Oh but then we can just make prostitution, burglary, car jacking, bank robbery, extortion, illegally imported cigarettes, people smuggling, protection rackets, sale of illegal weapons and every other crime legal.

    What if they then proceed to killing each other and their relatives/associates over turf wars in the areas outside Ireland in which they are already highly active.

    Well then we just have to go around the world convincing every other country to make all crime legal too.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,568 ✭✭✭BillyBobBS


    ChikiChiki wrote: »
    I'm not suggesting Ireland is such a country. What annoys me is people still make excuses and bring out that line "one of the safest countries in the world" everytime something like this happens.

    These gangs are running amok in Dublin and there is a huge heroin crisis on the streets of the city that is not being addressed. Instead of settling for less we should be expecting more otherwise it will get worse. The guards know exactly who is involved. Not enough is being done imo from a force that jumps from crisis to crisis.

    Lets not settle for less ffs as we tend to do.

    People don't care as long as it doesn't effect their leafy Dublin communities. "Sure they are all scum", "single mums'", "dole heads" etc.. you see that attitude in spades on this website when it comes to discussions about people from disadvantaged areas. The same kind of people are only to happy to pick up a bag of white off a dealer though to bring to a party this weekend.

    These people are the real scum and like i said they have blood on their hands today.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,048 ✭✭✭Rumpy Pumpy


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    We need to decide on a course of action and there's a straight choice:

    Massive crackdown on drug dealers and drug users;

    Or,

    Legalise drugs.

    The current situation ain't working and our cowardly political classes don't mind. Terrified of losing a few votes if they go for the later, yet not willing to fund the former.

    The political class? Who might they be?

    There's a very loud group of Marxists sitting up in the extremities of the Dail. Legalising the herb is one of their mantras. Not a priority for the 'political class' though. Most people have concerns that extend beyond scumbag users and dealers getting their fix.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,476 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    The Irish Times are reporting that

    1. Derek Devoy was driven to the house so that he could drop off a child
    2. Gunmen were waiting nearby
    3. They opened fire killing his sister Annette and injuring others in the house
    4. They shot dead the driver of the car that brought Derek Devoy to the house
    5. Derek Devoy escaped through the back of the house


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    tomofson wrote:
    Certain sections of paris,marseille,Barcelona and cities in italy have gun murders on a daily basis.


    Those places are a lot bigger than Dublin.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    The Traveller culture is one that is in utter crisis at the moment.


    What has that got to do with this story?


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 386 ✭✭Spider Web


    BillyBobBS wrote: »
    People don't care as long as it doesn't effect their leafy Dublin communities. "Sure they are all scum", "single mums'", "dole heads" etc.. you see that attitude in spades on this website when it comes to discussions about people from disadvantaged areas. The same kind of people are only to happy to pick up a bag of white off a dealer though to bring to a party this weekend.

    These people are the real scum and like i said they have blood on their hands today.
    Yeah I'm no fan of the types you describe, but... I'ma go with saying the people who terrorise their communities are first and foremost "the real scum".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,015 ✭✭✭optogirl


    MysticMonk wrote: »
    His name wasn't bottler. Bottler is a term used to describe somebody who loses thier courage or "bottle".

    Somebody who runs away could be called a bottler by someone unkind.

    His nickname was Bottler


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,015 ✭✭✭optogirl


    what I couldn't believe was TV3 News interviewing a neighbour/witness with her head badly pixelated...if you were from the area you would absolutely know who this person was & it could put her in danger. Thought it was pretty unprofessional of the journalist/TV3. Surely she should have been told to go immediately to the Gardai rather than telling TV3 News what she saw.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,421 ✭✭✭major bill


    Disgusting attack on a family home with kids about, RIP to the victims

    and how bad are hitmen in this country? time and time again we see these clowns (more likely in drug debt themselves) kill the wrong or innocent people.

    City needs a cull of these scum!


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    scoey wrote: »
    And how exactly is that the logical conclusion of what the poster you quoted said?

    Is legalisation the only possible option?

    I am going to name two wealthy countries which have a low streetcrime/murder rate/visible use of illegal drugs. Japan and Singapore.
    Neither have achieved this through legalisation or a public acceptance of either soft or hard drug use, in fact quite the opposite.

    Have you considered that people who push for legalisation may be pushing an agenda because they like drugs?

    No, I agree it's not the only option and in large part yes, many who push for legalisation do have an agenda.

    With regard to the other poster's point - they said that those who use illegal drugs have blood on their hands. By the same reasoning, those who allow drugs to remain illegal and just remain the mainstay of gangland criminals also "blood on their hands". Legalisation would likely cause issues, but would drastically reduce the power of gangland criminals.

    That said, I absolutely don't agree with that logic and am merely pointing it out to refute what the previous poster said. It's a massive stretch to say that users of recreational drugs are responsible for these deaths.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,972 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    scoey wrote: »
    What if they then proceed to killing each other and their relatives/associates over turf wars in the areas outside Ireland in which they are already highly active.

    You really should follow the news.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 869 ✭✭✭mikeybrennan


    major bill wrote: »
    Disgusting attack on a family home with kids about, RIP to the victims

    and how bad are hitmen in this country? time and time again we see these clowns (more likely in drug debt themselves) kill the wrong or innocent people.

    City needs a cull of these scum!
    Whoever ordered the hit won't be too happy today

    Intended target missed and possible wider retaliation for female family member being shot


  • Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭scoey


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    You really should follow the news.

    I do.

    Anyway, so what you're implying is that one of your 2 options (drug legalisation in Ireland) is something you are already aware won't stop anything in relation to criminals shooting each other as you are aware that the big players are involved in criminality on turf outside Ireland?

    If so, glad we agree.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 903 ✭✭✭MysticMonk


    For those who howl out for the government to build "social housing"..take a good look at this incident.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,015 ✭✭✭optogirl


    MysticMonk wrote: »
    For those who howl out for the government to build "social housing"..take a good look at this incident.

    what?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭scoey


    Amirani wrote: »
    No, I agree it's not the only option and in large part yes, many who push for legalisation do have an agenda.

    With regard to the other poster's point - they said that those who use illegal drugs have blood on their hands. By the same reasoning, those who allow drugs to remain illegal and just remain the mainstay of gangland criminals also "blood on their hands". Legalisation would likely cause issues, but would drastically reduce the power of gangland criminals.

    That said, I absolutely don't agree with that logic and am merely pointing it out to refute what the previous poster said. It's a massive stretch to say that users of recreational drugs are responsible for these deaths.

    Some people are in favour of much harsher enforcement of drug laws, both for users and dealers.
    Properly punish illegal drug use to damage demand while also going after the supply.

    You know, the approach used by the very few developed countries who don't have major drug and crime issues.

    The idea that if you legalise drugs criminals will stop acting like criminals would be laughably naive, if I actually believed it was an argument made in good faith and not just a BS argument by middle class people who want to buy hash and coke freely.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 869 ✭✭✭mikeybrennan


    scoey wrote: »
    Some people are in favour of much harsher enforcement of drug laws, both for users and dealers.
    Properly punish illegal drug use to damage demand while also going after the supply.

    You know, the approach used by the very few developed countries who don't have major drug and crime issues.

    Which countries?

    Sounds more like the US where this approach hasn't worked


  • Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭PistolsAtDawn


    BillyBobBS wrote: »
    Think it's important to remember and acknowledge anyone who uses cocaine or any illegal drug has blood on their hands this evening.

    No, it's the people who keep certain drugs illegal who have blood on their hands.

    Just legalise the stuff already!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭kerry cow


    I think users should be targeted more by the law .say for example any of the middle to upper class of this country who by their usage pedal the system .
    Bring in legislation or what ever , open a special court and prosecute them ,name them daily in the papers and fine them heavily , say a grand each time they are caught , let that be minimum fine, apply it through revenue like property tax is done or from their dole payments .
    Hit the pocket and name and shame .
    Don't take this Bull siht , about human right and all that crap .
    Drugs are killing this country and the government need to step up .

    We have speed limits and , if we didnt we would all drive reckless and kill all aroumd , if we drive and drive we proscuted .if there is no drug demand then there will be no need for supply .
    Demand and supply .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,220 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Where are people going with all this, 'we must be hard on drug users'! There's no evidence globally that shows hardening drug related sentences etc has any sort of positive reduction in supply and use. As other have said, just legalise everything already, as all we 're doing is wasting time, money and resources fighting it. It's a health issue not a legal one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    MysticMonk wrote: »
    For those who howl out for the government to build "social housing"..take a good look at this incident.

    Irrelevant. If the government knew what it was doing across the board, we would have more social housing, and scumbags like these wouldn't be involved because they'd be serving actual life sentences for their scumbaggery.

    I can't wait to find out how many previous convictions both the gunman and the intended target had. I'll bet that it's in the double digits and potentially in the latter half of a hundred.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,723 ✭✭✭✭Ally Dick


    Are they cream crackers?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,451 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Uriel. wrote: »
    When are we going to start to get real about gangland crime...

    When we stop using silly terms like 'gangland' for these murderers.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Whoever ordered the hit won't be too happy today

    Intended target missed and possible wider retaliation for female family member being shot

    Has probably signed his own death warrant whoever he is.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,321 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Scum will be scum.

    Can't believe there are people using this as a chance to slag off the Government and Gardaí.

    Kids, just say no. Nothing good ever comes from drug use.


Advertisement