Man and woman shot dead, two others injured in Dublin gangland shooting

Wheeliebin30

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Well he's a FG'er so it's not like Ballymun is his voting demographic. If it had happened in let's say Foxrock however.....

Actually noel rock is a fg td who is elected in ballymun.

But good man for never missing an opportunity to have a pop at da Gubberment.

Next you will blame da banks for the shooting.

ja1986

So her brother was murdered and the intended target was another brother?

Rumpy Pumpy

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Actually noel rock is a fg td who is elected in ballymun.

But good man for never missing an opportunity to have a pop at da Gubberment.

Next you will blame da banks for the shooting.

Noel Rock, as a FG TD for the constituency, has done more for the area in his few years in the Dail, than generations of Workers Party, SF, various guises of the Socialist Party have ever done. He's a true public servant. The others just try and lump their fetish for Marx on a populace desperate for something different.

Amirani

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Think it's important to remember and acknowledge anyone who uses cocaine or any illegal drug has blood on their hands this evening.

Following your logic to it's conclusion; anyone who is actively against the legalisation of illegal drugs has blood on their hands is evening. But you not what, it's a terrible line of reasoning so let's not use it maybe?

myshirt

Part of the problem is these kids are born into dysfunctional social and economic environments that 'the rest of us' ignore. It's not our problem, it's not on our doorstep. F#ck them. Scumbags.

However, that scumbag that you meet on the Red line was once a kid, and there are currently kids in Ireland still born into appalling circumstances that no kid should be born into. They are watching an old tape of Superman and believe that maybe some day maybe someone like Superman will come and rescue them. But Superman is not coming. This is Ireland.

Without any help, these kids develop impaired coping strategies for their life challenges and have really bad social, emotional, and financial resources to swim against the tide and meet the challenge of the world they were given.

Victimisation, poverty, no role models, low self esteem, piss poor parenting, abuse, drugs, traumatisation, social isolation, paranoid behaviour, violence, suicide, all shared experiences which can enhance a 'group identify' and create hostility, hopelessness, or outright disdain for civilised society. There are even epigenetic effects to socioeconomic disadvantage and a devastating impact on a person's development from the introduction of stressors into their lives from a young age.

Regardless of where you stand on social policy, the reality is you either spend the money at the start or you spend it at the end. You spend it on the kid needing help, or you spend it on the kid when you meet him as a 21 year old criminal, drug addict, welfare recipient, or whatever. Assuming he is not in the river, as suicides very high in socioeconomic disadvantage communities. Not only if you invest in tackling socioeconomic disadvantage issues can you get better outcomes, you also get more bang for your buck. It's way more expensive dealing with it when it is too late.

I am not excusing anyone's appalling crimes, but I am saying that we have to face up to a big problem we have, and that is short changing kids dealt a bad hand in life. It is disgusting what these scumbags are after doing in broad daylight and the environment young people have to live in. We permit socioeconomic issues to persist as long as it doesn't hit the leafy suburbs of South Dublin. It's just not good enough that thousands of kids are in hotels tonight. We can do better.

uck51js9zml2yt

She had 6 kids.:(


https://www.google.ie/amp/www.rte.ie/amp/897872/

kildare lad

RIP to the victims and hopefully the killers are caught. One of the reason violence is very bad here in this country is the judges live on another planet. People are on the streets that should be locked up. Toerags been giving bail, sentences far to leniet for the crimes that've been committed.

For example I seen a fella in my town last week who served 5 years for stabbing his cousin to death in a fight. 5 years for takin someones life, the chap has stabbed people before the murder aswell. Its mental. Everyday you read the paper, its always some with 40 or 50 convictions in court, how are they allowed to accumulate that many and still be free.

Compare molly martens and her dad,getting 25 years in jail in America to Eamon lillis who smashed his wifes head in with a brick gettin 5 years and thats were the a lot of the problem lies. Irish justice system is a joke.

sassyj

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

Noel Rock, as a FG TD for the constituency, has done more for the area in his few years in the Dail, than generations of Workers Party, SF, various guises of the Socialist Party have ever done. He's a true public servant. The others just try and lump their fetish for Marx on a populace desperate for something different.

What's he done, a lot of people in the area wouldn't take him seriously at all. Case in point, superimposing his face on the front of an M&S store, using it to announce new Santry M&S as if he'd something to do with it.

glenfieldman

ja1986 wrote: »

So her brother was murdered and the intended target was another brother?

Yes MD dead
DD ran off

begbysback

Spider Web wrote: »

Nnnnno... you did respond with great certainty.

People who say stuff you don't agree with also have a life outside the internet. That's not an answer to "Why do you present your opinions as fact?"

the outernet?



...just made that up myself there - let it be noted for the record that from here on forth I created this term

freshpopcorn

kildare lad wrote: »

Compare molly martens and her dad,getting 25 years in jail in America to Eamon lillis who smashed his wifes head in with a brick gettin 5 years and thats were the a lot of the problem lies. Irish justice system is a joke.

Well the murder rate is a lot higher in the US per 100,000 so their system is nothing to be proud of!

myshirt

All Law is is one class of people imposing their rules on another class of people. Without access to the professions for poorer kids, women, ethnic groups, etc, we won't get the required diversity we need in Law in Ireland.

Many, many reasons why sentencing can be a joke in this country. On reason is the judges of their likes don't need to live next to this chap with the 100 convictions or put up with him.

tomofson

myshirt wrote: »

Part of the problem is these kids are born into dysfunctional social and economic environments that 'the rest of us' ignore. It's not our problem, it's not on our doorstep. F#ck them. Scumbags.

However, that scumbag that you meet on the Red line was once a kid, and there are currently kids in Ireland still born into appalling circumstances that no kid should be born into. They are watching an old tape of Superman and believe that maybe some day maybe someone like Superman will come and rescue them. But Superman is not coming. This is Ireland.

Without any help, these kids develop impaired coping strategies for their life challenges and have really bad social, emotional, and financial resources to swim against the tide and meet the challenge of the world they were given.

Victimisation, poverty, no role models, low self esteem, piss poor parenting, abuse, drugs, traumatisation, social isolation, paranoid behaviour, violence, suicide, all shared experiences which can enhance a 'group identify' and create hostility, hopelessness, or outright disdain for civilised society. There are even epigenetic effects to socioeconomic disadvantage and a devastating impact on a person's development from the introduction of stressors into their lives from a young age.

Regardless of where you stand on social policy, the reality is you either spend the money at the start or you spend it at the end. You spend it on the kid needing help, or you spend it on the kid when you meet him as a 21 year old criminal, drug addict, welfare recipient, or whatever. Assuming he is not in the river, as suicides very high in socioeconomic disadvantage communities. Not only if you invest in tackling socioeconomic disadvantage issues can you get better outcomes, you also get more bang for your buck. It's way more expensive dealing with it when it is too late.

I am not excusing anyone's appalling crimes, but I am saying that we have to face up to a big problem we have, and that is short changing kids dealt a bad hand in life. It is disgusting what these scumbags are after doing in broad daylight and the environment young people have to live in. We permit socioeconomic issues to persist as long as it doesn't hit the leafy suburbs of South Dublin. It's just not good enough that thousands of kids are in hotels tonight. We can do better.

I have tried to explain all that before numerous times, it is easier for these people living in a bubble to just look down on and hate everybody than it is for them to really think about the issue and understand it. So unfortunately you will waste your time here, but I really do appreciate you trying.

Snickers Man

Arian Tall Adhesive wrote: »

Far from it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

According to these figures Ireland has the eighth lowest rate of homicide in all of Europe, based on its 2015 figures. The only "countries" with a better record were Monaco, Liechtenstein, San Marino, Andorra (all of whom had NO murders in the years in whcih they were measured) Austria, Norway and Netherlands.

The seven worst countries were all former members of the Soviet Union: Russia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Latvia, Belarus, Estonia , Moldova.

Sounds like we're a pretty dangerous place overall, right enough. :rolleyes:

r93kaey5p2izun

Are our homicide figures reliable? I thought it was found recently that certain death were not being correctly categorised.

tomofson

Ronin Easy Carrousel wrote: »

Are our homicide figures reliable? I thought it was found recently that certain death were not being correctly categorised.

Fairly sure most homicides would be obvious, the ones that are miscategorized would be a percentage of a percent.

r93kaey5p2izun

tomofson wrote: »

Fairly sure most homicides would be obvious, the ones that are miscategorized would be a percentage of a percent.

No I think it was more serious than that - multiple homicides recorded as one for example. Murder suicide recorded as suicide. Either way, we have to follow accepted international norms for recording if we are to make comparisons, particularly to our near European neighbours. I don't think 2015 figures would be truly accurate for that purpose.

tomofson

Ronin Easy Carrousel wrote: »

No I think it was more serious than that - multiple homicides recorded as one for example. Murder suicide recorded as suicide. Either way, we have to follow accepted international norms for recording if we are to make comparisons, particularly to our near European neighbours. I don't think 2015 figures would be truly accurate for that purpose.

It would be fairly hard to brush multiple homicides under the carpet especially in this day and age but okay.

kildare lad

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Well the murder rate is a lot higher in the US per 100,000 so their system is nothing to be proud of!

Could you imagine what our murder rate would be, if we had the same access to guns as what they do??? From what ive seen in america, the sentences they give for violent crime is correct

political analyst

According to today's (17 August) Irish Times (See broadsheet.ie), the target was a man who has a violent criminal past. When he fled the scene, the gunmen went into the house and killed his sister.

If they wanted to kill him, why didn't the gunmen chase him? Why would they kill his sister - she was inside the house and thus couldn't have seen them when they were outside the house?

political analyst

myshirt wrote: »

All Law is is one class of people imposing their rules on another class of people. Without access to the professions for poorer kids, women, ethnic groups, etc, we won't get the required diversity we need in Law in Ireland.

Many, many reasons why sentencing can be a joke in this country. On reason is the judges of their likes don't need to live next to this chap with the 100 convictions or put up with him.

Why would judges from privileged backgrounds be sympathetic to criminals from the north side of the Liffey? It doesn't make sense.

political analyst

The dead man's name is in this article.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4797188/Woman-seriously-injured-pair-killed-Dublin-shooting.html

freshpopcorn

kildare lad wrote: »

Could you imagine what our murder rate would be, if we had the same access to guns as what they do??? From what ive seen in america, the sentences they give for violent crime is correct

My point is that all these big harsh sentences don't seem to deter people in the US. It's easy to get your hands on a gun in Ireland.

scoey

Amirani wrote: »

Following your logic to it's conclusion; anyone who is actively against the legalisation of illegal drugs has blood on their hands is evening. But you not what, it's a terrible line of reasoning so let's not use it maybe?

And how exactly is that the logical conclusion of what the poster you quoted said?

Is legalisation the only possible option?

I am going to name two wealthy countries which have a low streetcrime/murder rate/visible use of illegal drugs. Japan and Singapore.
Neither have achieved this through legalisation or a public acceptance of either soft or hard drug use, in fact quite the opposite.

Have you considered that people who push for legalisation may be pushing an agenda because they like drugs?

Rumpy Pumpy

The Traveller culture is one that is in utter crisis at the moment.

The traveller lifestyle was destroyed in the early 70's; when very well-meaning politicians and civil servants decided that the best course of action was to place a nomadic people within a social welfare structure that could be delivered by the EEU. There has been very little positive outcomes since for travellers. They are now seen as criminals, wife beaters, and losers.

The tragedy is that there is genuine craftsmanship, story telling, and history within the tradition.

Spider Web

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Terrible atrocity. F**king hell the amount of gang related murders is racking up yet people are going out of their way to declare Ireland is a safe country. Innocent people are being murdered.

But nobody is going out of their way at all. You're zoning in on gangland violence, which is certainly an extremely dangerous world, whereas people who say Ireland is a safe country are not just looking at gangland violence - they're looking at a much bigger picture: Ireland in its entirety. The vast vast majority of people in Ireland are not connected to gangland violence - a dangerous yet minority world.

Your average person does not have to worry about being attacked or shot.

There are countries, like Venezuela, where the general populace are constantly in fear that they could be killed. It's utterly dishonest to suggest Ireland is such a country.

Gadgetman496

Can we keep this on topic?

Uriel.

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

The Traveller culture is one that is in utter crisis at the moment.

The traveller lifestyle was destroyed in the early 70's; when very well-meaning politicians and civil servants decided that the best course of action was to place a nomadic people within a social welfare structure that could be delivered by the EEU. There has been very little positive outcomes since for travellers. They are now seen as criminals, wife beaters, and losers.

The tragedy is that there is genuine craftsmanship, story telling, and history within the tradition.

In a lot instances they are criminals etc.

Uriel.

political analyst wrote: »

The dead man's name is in this article.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4797188/Woman-seriously-injured-pair-killed-Dublin-shooting.html

Hard to piece it altogether. Did the gunman deliberately kill the sister? Seems like he did,seems to be suggesting that the target got away so they decided to kill his sister as a "**** you" kind of action.

Was the other victim sitting in a car at the time? Or was he also in the house?

Again, while it may not be related to the ongoing kinahan /Hutch "feud" it does seem like another gangland act flowing from the kinahans. When are we going to start to get real about gangland crime in terms of laws and sentencings.

r93kaey5p2izun

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

The Traveller culture is one that is in utter crisis at the moment.

The traveller lifestyle was destroyed in the early 70's; when very well-meaning politicians and civil servants decided that the best course of action was to place a nomadic people within a social welfare structure that could be delivered by the EEU. There has been very little positive outcomes since for travellers. They are now seen as criminals, wife beaters, and losers.

The tragedy is that there is genuine craftsmanship, story telling, and history within the tradition.

Is that relevant to this case?