Why are our Gardai "soft" looking?

Kaizersoze81 · 19-05-2017 02:11PM

You can't have it every way. Other countries such as Italy, France, Poland etc have "hard" looking police as the general public there want them to crack down on scumbag behaviour and not be afraid to be heavy handed when necessary. In Ireland if a guard lays as much a hand on a scumbag, the public record it on their phones and upload it to YouTube/Facebook whereupon there are cries of police brutality and calls for the guard to be sacked. So which is it you want?

AlekSmart · 19-05-2017 02:14PM

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »

They're on the same money in the UK. Anyway, it doesn't matter what police are being paid abroad, this is Ireland.

Oddly enough,the actual Job of Police Officer in the two juristictions differs significantly in terms of the regard it is held in.

In the U.K. the job of Police Constable is far more widely referred to,and regarded as just that...A Job.

Police Constable....a Job...just as any other,with a few additional powers and responsibilities,but apart from Maintaining Her Majesties Peace,nothing beyond the ken of an "ordinary" young person.

Contrast that with the Garda Siochana's traditional methodology of recruiting and training,which for many,appears to revolve around establishing and maintaining a secretive counter-culture very specifically focused upon it's membership (it's no coincidence that "Member" is the preferred term for a Garda internally).

I would far prefer to see becoming a Garda in Ireland being simply just another Job,with noting secretive or requiring of an Oath to ensure it's functioning.

One of the immediate requisites for change is a rapid injection of Youth into the mid & upper ranks of the force.

Comparing,for example,a UK/PSNI Crime Scene Press Conference and a Garda Siochana one would often give the impression that most mid-ranking Garda Officers were being interviewed in a Retirement Home,such is their obvious seniority.

There are plenty of committed and enthusiastic Gardai out there,but they are being remorselessly ground down by the antiquated and now largely outated practices from a bygone era...

It's time to get Micheal McCDowell to perhaps ask that question once more...

"What sort of Police Force DO we actually want" :eek:

Atoms for Peace · 19-05-2017 02:17PM

The gaurds like a lot of our institutions are badly in need of reform, but In fairness one of the greatest successes of the Garda is that we've been through the civil war and the troubles without the need for a paramilitary police force.

TallGlass · 19-05-2017 02:19PM

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Work on building site in London Labouring and then you will see what really work is and what very low pay is. Compared to gardai big pay .

Last time I checked, nor our-selfs or the UK are a dictatorship. If your not happy with the pay in your job, get one that pays you what you think is a fair wage and stop begrudging others in better paid jobs. No one is forcing anyone to work on a building site for low pay.

seachto7 · 19-05-2017 02:19PM

Police brutality is a separate issue, as in abusing their powers, but you're right, the bleeding heart brigade here would be up in arms at little Johnny scumbag getting a boot up the hole by the law.

Victor · 19-05-2017 02:19PM

seachto7 wrote: »

You look at them, and they don't look in any way threatening

They're not meant to look threatening. Such a look can prevent contact with the community, which makes policing more difficult.

Green Peter · 19-05-2017 02:22PM

AlekSmart wrote:

Oddly enough,the actual Job of Police Officer in the two juristictions differs significantly in terms of the regard it is held in.

AlekSmart wrote:

In the U.K. the job of Police Constable is far more widely referred to,and regarded as just that...A Job.

AlekSmart wrote:

Police Constable....a Job...just as any other,with a few additional powers and responsibilities,but apart from Maintaining Her Majesties Peace,nothing beyond the ken of an "ordinary" young person.

AlekSmart wrote:

Contrast that with the Garda Siochana's traditional methodology of recruiting and training,which for many,appears to revolve around establishing and maintaining a secretive counter-culture very specifically focused upon it's membership (it's no coincidence that "Member" is the preferred term for a Garda internally).

TallGlass wrote:

Last time I checked, nor our-selfs or the UK are a dictatorship. If your not happy with the pay in your job, get one that pays you what you think is a fair wage and stop begrudging others in better paid jobs. No one is forcing anyone to work on a building site for low pay.

Very true, generally its people with chips on their shoulders who have attitudes like this. Arsed about in school and went from day to day without improving their lot. Likely to have failed the entrance exam but won't tell us that!

TallGlass · 19-05-2017 02:26PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

Oddly enough,the actual Job of Police Officer in the two juristictions differs significantly in terms of the regard it is held in.

In the U.K. the job of Police Constable is far more widely referred to,and regarded as just that...A Job.

Police Constable....a Job...just as any other,with a few additional powers and responsibilities,but apart from Maintaining Her Majesties Peace,nothing beyond the ken of an "ordinary" young person.

Contrast that with the Garda Siochana's traditional methodology of recruiting and training,which for many,appears to revolve around establishing and maintaining a secretive counter-culture very specifically focused upon it's membership (it's no coincidence that "Member" is the preferred term for a Garda internally).

I would far prefer to see becoming a Garda in Ireland being simply just another Job,with noting secretive or requiring of an Oath to ensure it's functioning.

One of the immediate requisites for change is a rapid injection of Youth into the mid & upper ranks of the force.

Comparing,for example,a UK/PSNI Crime Scene Press Conference and a Garda Siochana one would often give the impression that most mid-ranking Garda Officers were being interviewed in a Retirement Home,such is their obvious seniority.

There are plenty of committed and enthusiastic Gardai out there,but they are being remorselessly ground down by the antiquated and now largely outated practices from a bygone era...

It's time to get Micheal McCDowell to perhaps ask that question once more...

"What sort of Police Force DO we actually want" :eek:

It more than a job because from what I have heard from the news it's run very poorly and the role of Gardaí covers pretty much everything and more. In the UK, they have dedicated civilian teams that take there share of the work, entire custody suites with staff/police just for that one purpose of holding people, in Ireland, a Gardaí going into work doesn't know if it's out in the car, beat, custody or behind a desk for the day/night, or what ever else it is that night. There just a few examples of how the UK in my eye is run better and in turn functions better.

And just to add, the UK Police actually complain about how there job is more than just a Police officer it's turned into a social worker basically.

As for why the Gardaí look unfit, Ireland is one of the main EU countries set for a obesity problem, so I doubt this is just limited to the Gardaí, you could nearly look at any other profession and ask why there are unfit people in it and compare it too another EU state.

Mrs OBumble · 19-05-2017 02:31PM

silverharp wrote: »

? also there is not much a female cop can do if someone doesn't want to cooperate

I know a few women who do security work, and they'd be well handier at dealing with trouble than most young guards of either gender.

The problem isn't the uniform or even the height issue . It's that they seem to recruit skinny blondes.

b_mac2 · 19-05-2017 02:38PM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I know a few women who do security work, and they'd be well handier at dealing with trouble than most young guards of either gender.

They probably wouldn't though to be honest. Unless they are professional boxers/MMA fighters and have a good 20kg+ weight advantage over a male, and even at that they would be hard pushed to beat a guy. That's not sexism either, that's just the joys of having way more testosterone.

Exeggcute · 19-05-2017 03:02PM

My friend is a Garda. Runs marathons, trains in the gym, does cross-fit. Big guy well able to look after himself...but all he has is a baton and a tiny can of pepper spray if he gets in a violent situation.

It is absolute nonsense. One time he had a totally naked guy charge out of a house screaming his head off that he was going to kill him. He had a machete.

How the hell is he supposed to deal with that? Luckily the ERU were nearby and saved his ass.

He also said that his female colleagues are beyond useless and in many cases put him in danger due to their inability to control a situation.

One time he was dealing with a situation, he had one guy handcuffed and asked his female colleague to hold onto him while he tackled another guy. He got that guy on the ground and when he looked up the other guy was running down the road. Then he got set upon by two more. His colleague stood there like a deer in the headlights. Sorry was the answer he got after getting lumps kicked out of him.

Female gardai have no place on the beat given the current failure to arm our police force to meet the challenges they face.

The people they deal with on a daily basis have zero respect for them and have no fear of them whatsoever.

Their uniforms are a joke, their equipment a joke and their vehicles a joke.

When they act, they put their jobs on the line because their hands are tied by political correctness and bureaucratic bull****.

Our police force is a joke, not fir for purpose and riddled with corruption. The whole thing needs to be disbanded and rethought from the ground up.

Their is nothing unique about Ireland that prevents us from having a modern, well equipped police force with the power to do their job properly.

Except do-gooders and the political willpower to implement the necessary changes.

seachto7 · 19-05-2017 03:10PM

All of the above!

buck65 · 19-05-2017 04:29PM

That Swedish cop video is hilarious. What about the guy who came into it after 90 seconds. Made a big play , failed and ****ed off?!
Jaysus they were hopeless. Why didn't they rush him together rather than trading from a distance in ones and twos?

Remember when you were a kid and someone would kneel behind you on all fours and the other guy would push you over! Surprised they didn't try it...

Donald Trump · 19-05-2017 04:38PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

The ones I know wouldn't be soft looking. I'm good friends with one who does a lot of boxing and kickboxing and goes for runs every day. I certainly wouldn't like to take him on on a Saturday night after the nightclub.

Just use plenty of lube.

Is that you Carla?

Arghus · 19-05-2017 04:47PM

They look soft because we're so tough.

suicide_circus · 19-05-2017 04:49PM

Those high vis jackets are a ****ing disgrace. They look so sloppy.

YFlyer · 19-05-2017 04:51PM

When qualified. Do they still do those run tests?

buck65 · 19-05-2017 05:05PM

Yes the main test is running back to the station before the pudding box gets cold.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 19-05-2017 05:18PM

Listen I've got a lot of time for the Gardai in general but recently a little jumped up red fella accosted me as I was walking home from a night of drinking. (Case of mistaken Identity)

I'm 6'1 so not super tall but I was towering over this little angry man, I had to really try hard not to laugh at him.

Apparently the little feller had seen (security cam) some lout pissing in the alleyway behind the station. He comes bursting out the door and attempts to collar the first man he sees.

I of course was travelling from a completely different direction so could not have committed the crime. When he eventually accepted this I got no apology off him. He really came across badly, not the type of man who should wearing the uniform imo.

everlast75 · 19-05-2017 05:37PM

Afaik Firemen need to be a certain level of fitness. Gardai should be the same.

Some of the jobs to be done by the gardai are physically demanding however I've seen gardai that are probably morbidly obese. Nick someone's phone and there ain't a chance of him catching you

twinytwo · 19-05-2017 05:49PM

Parchment wrote: »

I often wonder about their capability to run after someone or tackle someone. I was in Greece recently and the police there were not to be messed with. Same in Poland - really fit and able police force.

As a woman - i do think it was wrong for the height restriction to be removed unless youre some kind of powerhouse if your small youre not as useful in a fight/restraint situation as a taller person.

just throwing it out there...Mike Tyson is 5'8 and at 50 you still wouldnt mess with him

ED E · 19-05-2017 05:52PM

Caliden wrote: »

Ever since they got rid of the height requirement most new recruits aren't intimidating enough to be taken seriously.

A stupid move to appease the PC brigade. Women are naturally shorter, men cant give birth, its biology. Ger over it.

Cases of 16 yo's attacking pairs of Ban Gardai, the old system worked.

mynamejeff · 19-05-2017 05:53PM

Ten and a quarter hour shifts
six days on 3 days off
shift work proven to have a very negative effect on health
zero moral
zero judicial support
betrayed by their own union
a uniform that is unsuitable at best farcical in general and dangerous at worst
shackled by ridiculous PC standards requiring a 60/40 male female split resulting in males covering for females who go on maternity and later require job-sharing or similar arrangements
trialed by media after most public incidents with no support from mamagment and no coverage when eventualy cleared
used as a political football weekly
a never ending stream of idiots with ill informed and inaccurate opinions screaming from every media such as boards
scandal after scandal after scandal
the fact that you are more likely to be recruited if you have social care degree than an all Ireland medal compounds the problem

the garda have a lot of issues/problems but the lack of six packs is a minor one

Allinall · 19-05-2017 05:56PM

seachto7 wrote: »

I don't see the point of sending some bangardai out on the beat either. Call it equality if you like, but the ones I've seen woudln't be much use up against the likes of the Dundons and the likes, unless it's a case you need a female Garda to tackle a female scumbag?

Gardai here should be made do self defence or boxing classes or the likes. Regular fitness tests. They'll be able to "keep the peace" then.

Do you really think a bunch of scumbags brawling will be bothered about a 5ft Garda trying to break it up.....?

This really shows a complete lack of understanding of how our Gardai operate.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 19-05-2017 06:00PM

Their uniforms are a **** 'one size fits no-one' affair. Most of them are wandering around in trousers which are like something a clown would wear. They're obviously mass produced in a few sizes and they get the nearest size to what they normally wear. It really is a horrible dated uniform which commands no respect. If they looked the part then maybe people would have a little more respect for them.

I have seen and heard the abuse young drunken arse holes give them after niteclubs turf close, it's ridiculous but when you turn your police force out in ill fitting ridiculous uniforms then it's easy to see why no one takes them seriously.

I honestly believe a Patton style commission is needed, the AGS should be disbanded and rebranded with a completely new uniform and look. I don't think any amount of tribunals or enquiries will ever change anything, it needs to be a fresh start, new rules and regulations and new ethos.

everlast75 · 19-05-2017 06:06PM

twinytwo wrote: »

just throwing it out there...Mike Tyson is 5'8 and at 50 you still wouldnt mess with him

I wouldn't know what to do if he was a guard and demanded I do something!

"No officer - I'm not 'ashistin arreth', whatever the hell that is"

weadick · 19-05-2017 07:55PM

Do a youtube search for Landsdowne Road riots 1995 and tell me Guards are 'soft'.

gctest50 · 19-05-2017 08:03PM

weadick wrote: »

Do a youtube search for Landsdowne Road riots 1995 and tell me Guards are 'soft'.

Do a search

The garda, who was off duty, insisted he only acted in self-defence after he claimed one of the women “launched herself” at him in a row over the lift fee.

Ms. Kelly is 5 foot in height

“The door was between me and Brian. He pulled my hair and beat me to the ground,” Ms Kelly sobbed.

“He kicked me in the face while I was on the ground.”

Garda Brian Hanrahan, 34, of Ballintotty, Nenagh, was found guilty by Judge Elizabeth MacGrath at Nenagh Court in February of assaulting Emer Kelly and Aisling King at Lisboney, Nenagh, on March 6, 2016, causing harm

rgace · 19-05-2017 08:12PM

Kaizersoze81 wrote: »

You can't have it every way. Other countries such as Italy, France, Poland etc have "hard" looking police as the general public there want them to crack down on scumbag behaviour and not be afraid to be heavy handed when necessary. In Ireland if a guard lays as much a hand on a scumbag, the public record it on their phones and upload it to YouTube/Facebook whereupon there are cries of police brutality and calls for the guard to be sacked. So which is it you want?

The general public are scared of their police forces in those countries.
I am glad the Gardai are more reasonable in Ireland.

Heisenberg1 · 19-05-2017 08:15PM

The worst thing they done was getting rid of the minimum height most of them now can fit in your pocket they are tiny.

Why are our Gardai "soft" looking?

Comments