Why are our Gardai "soft" looking?

Professor Moriarty

Jayesdiem wrote: »

To be fair now lads I wholeheartedly agree with this same stance. I'm just saying how I see the situation based on my experience. Considering nobody knows my actual identity here there is no need for me to try to look tough. Even if you did know me, that is not my motivation.

Well, suggesting that people should go around trying to stare down young guards does come across as 'Look how hard I am, I stare at guards.' Anyway, it's not good advice whatever way you look at it.

MysticMonk

Try and stare down a member if the Public Order Unit and see how you get on.

seachto7

RandomName2 wrote: »

Because the chief characteristic of the police is intimidation and beating people up? I'm assuming you're against female police officers as well?

What is this, the 17th century? If a police officer is getting into a brawl then they're probably doing something wrong.

With a quick note to gramar that Conor McGregor might want a word

What's the point of having a female Garda rocking up to a scumbag brawl? Most of them are around 5ft. Not to say they couldn't take care of themselves but to be honest they'd be as much use as a chocolate fire guard. Scumbags don't care these days . Wasn't there an incident in Limerick years ago where the scum were throwing bricks at Gardai when they arrived at a house. That's the respect they're given. Look what happened in Mayo a few weeks ago. That's the respect they're given.
There's a difference between beating people up and asserting authority.

Personally I think if a scumbag lays a hand on a Garda they deserve a kicking but you're getting into a grey area there of proving who laid a hand on who...

seachto7

MysticMonk wrote: »

Try and stare down a member if the Public Order Unit and see how you get on.

Different kettle of fish

Wanderer2010

jojofizzio wrote: »

The Gardai need to take the attitude test that those mean mo-fo'es that man US Immigration booths at Dublin airport have to pass...no messing with them boys...had the pleasure of meeting one of the Donald's finest in Dublin airport a couple of weeks ago(name of Beaver...was afraid to snigger to myself for fear of being banged up...)-have to say I was far more scared of him than I ever have been encountering any of the Gardai....not sure why the need for the naked hostility though???

Try getting into Canada, extreme hostility from the Customs staff.

corner of hells

seachto7 wrote: »

RandomName2 wrote: »

Because the chief characteristic of the police is intimidation and beating people up? I'm assuming you're against female police officers as well?

What is this, the 17th century? If a police officer is getting into a brawl then they're probably doing something wrong.

With a quick note to gramar that Conor McGregor might want a word

What's the point of having a female Garda rocking up to a scumbag brawl? Most of them are around 5ft. Not to say they couldn't take care of themselves but to be honest they'd be as much use as a chocolate fire guard. Scumbags don't care these days . Wasn't there an incident in Limerick years ago where the scum were throwing bricks at Gardai when they arrived at a house. That's the respect they're given. Look what happened in Mayo a few weeks ago. That's the respect they're given.
There's a difference between beating people up and asserting authority.

Personally I think if a scumbag lays a hand on a Garda they deserve a kicking but you're getting into a grey area there of proving who laid a hand on who...

Your second paragraph says a lot about your mindset.
The idea behind Gardai indeed any police force is to uphold law order not giving people a kicking .
I work quite a bit with Gardai in difficult situations and the level of restraint shown is incredible.




A few examples of situations I've wirked with them have needed public order units , detectives , gardai with the ability to interview people in relation to sexual assault allegations , sudden deaths etc.

Really what type of Garda do people want ? Trigger happy violent American style police , paramilitary style as in what's in some European countries.

An odd point that seems to keep coming up is the comment about "reflective jackets ".The name gives away thier function... visible at night , easy for other members to etc , handy on RTA calls.

SterlingArcher

seachto7 wrote: »

Well, I'm not saying all Gardai are soft looking, but there's a fair whack of them who could do with keeping away from the table and going to a gym.

You look at them, and they don't look in any way threatening, or authoritative.

I don't know if it's the uniform or what. They seem to wear these oversized reflective jackets which are horrible.

I saw the police in action last week in Spain, and they don't f*ck about, and they actually look like they'd turn you over as well.

In Italy, they prefer to look good, but will equally f*ck you up.

I have seen Gardai in action, well able to handle themselves but not a whole lot.

Too many stories in the news of Gardai getting assaulted.

I have seen bangardai with arses the size of houses. (No good in a foot pursuit, let's be honest).

Lots of pudgy youngfellas on the beat.

I'm no oil painting myself.

But they keep keep their hair tidy....

goose2005

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »

Give them free access to gyms and take them out from behind desks dealing with bullsh**t paperwork. They're being paid rubbish money and being made to work long hours on top of many of them having to commute, ending up with many subsisting on convenience foods. They don't lead anything like a healthy lifestyle.

Also, give them a bloody uniform that is fit for purpose.

I'm not a Garda btw.

all police have to deal with paperwork, and Garda pay is comparable to other European police forces. Sick of excuses. http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/how-do-garda-earnings-compare-with-their-counterparts-elsewhere-in-europe-1.2853606

Allah snackbar

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Yeah course ya did, I have a friend who failed his leaving cert but his dads cousins sister in laws uncle was a guard and got him in through the back door. He failed all his policing exams but they still let him through because his dads cousins sister in laws uncle made a phone call. :rollseyes:

Ok ? I know him personally , when he passed out he had never completed the run he had to pass the physical , I think he told me that you had to run a mile and a half in 11 minutes or something like that , he was never able to beat the time they set as a minimum standard of fitness and they let him do it 3 times , he told me himself that he wasn't far off it twice but they just let him off with it , he was done for drink driving about 3 years ago and he retired shortly after .
I don't know what makes you think it would be in my interest to make up something like this , would you care to elaborate , and believe me I don't really give a **** what you think but I'd like to go some way in understanding your idiotic post

corner of hells

Allah snackbar wrote: »

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Yeah course ya did, I have a friend who failed his leaving cert but his dads cousins sister in laws uncle was a guard and got him in through the back door. He failed all his policing exams but they still let him through because his dads cousins sister in laws uncle made a phone call. :rollseyes:

Ok ? I know him personally , when he passed out he had never completed the run he had to pass the physical , I think he told me that you had to run a mile and a half in 11 minutes or something like that , he was never able to beat the time they set as a minimum standard of fitness and they let him do it 3 times , he told me himself that he wasn't far off it twice but they just let him off with it , he was done for drink driving about 3 years ago and he retired shortly after .
I don't know what makes you think it would be in my interest to make up something like this , would you care to elaborate , and believe me I don't really give a **** what you think but I'd like to go some way in understanding your idiotic post

Anecdotal evidence is often the best evidence.

.........

There's no real deterrent to crime in Ireland. Even when the Guards do take someone to court, the courts do little about them, sentences are short and prisons in Ireland are not a deterrent to crime.

Allah snackbar

corner of hells wrote: »

Anecdotal evidence is often the best evidence.

So you've never told a story that you've heard first hand from someone else , I mean he didn't say he went to mars just that he was let pass out without passing one part of the physical exam , I think I'll just post humorous one liners in future to see how many thanks I can get

thelad95

......... wrote: »

There's no real deterrent to crime in Ireland. Even when the Guards do take someone to court, the courts do little about them, sentences are short and prisons in Ireland are not a deterrent to crime.

And what part of that is the guards fault?

markodaly

There is an impression that the Gardai are soft alright, not fit for purpose really any more. Its all well and good to have a community type police force but they are seen as a soft touch by the 5% of the population who cause 95% of the trouble. Perhaps they need more public order units with big burly men out on the beat and to be seen. The court systems dont help either so I guess for them, why bother.

It is very noticeable when you travel that there are some police forces that you do not mess with. I remember being on a bus in Latin America years ago. It was a local bus with loads of dodgy looking thieves and scoundrels on it. We got stopped at a check point and a single police man got on the bus.

In that second you could feel that the atmosphere change and the dodgy looking people dared not make eye contact with this single policeman. The guy got on the bus with a rifle strapped on this back, a pistol by his side, had military overalls, military combat stab/bullet vest and was wearing a black balaclava so you could only see his eyes He just walked up and down the bus looking at peoples luggage briefly. It was also a warning, like a 'We are watching you and if you want to cause trouble, it will be guys like me who you will have to answer to'

Needless to say, there was no trouble on the bus but it was very noticeable that guys who would make your average Irish knacker look like Twink, visibly look uncomfortable at the sight of one single policeman. If the Gardai had to deal with the type of issues and crime in many other parts of the world like Latin America, they would be wiped out in weeks. I can imagine if a Garda walked on that bus in Latin America. He would probably end up kidnapped and sold for ransom. Then again, ireland is a relatively very safe country. In some ways we are lucky we only have to have the type of Gardai we have but again, they are seen as a soft touch and easily playable.

artorias

I come from a place where the police force is composed of huge men and women who are always heavily armed and are trained in several martial arts. Crime rate is stupid high there and police officers are often killed by kids half their weight. That being said, the police are a bunch of abusive thugs who will rough people up and sometimes shoot and kill innocents.
You don't want that kind of crap here. Your police is fine, crime rate here is stupid low compared to the rest of the world. Learn to appreciate the things you have, because they don't last forever.

Allah snackbar

artorias wrote: »

I come from a place where the police force is composed of huge men and women who are always heavily armed and are trained in several martial arts. Crime rate is stupid high there and police officers are often killed by kids half their weight. That being said, the police are a bunch of abusive thugs who will rough people up and sometimes shoot and kill innocents.
You don't want that kind of crap here. Your police is fine, crime rate here is stupid low compared to the rest of the world. Learn to appreciate the things you have, because they don't last forever.

Exactly , we have the police force we deserve simply because contrary to what some people think , we live in relative paradise compared to some parts of the world where the police are tough as nails and have to be , guards in Ireland get by 99 percent of the time by less stressful means than strong arm tactics and it works for them

.........

markodaly wrote: »

There is an impression that the Gardai are soft alright

Not as soft as the Irish courts, which is a far far worse problem. Police are wasting their time in Ireland, and they know it.

.........

artorias wrote: »

I come from a place where the police force is composed of huge men and women who are always heavily armed and are trained in several martial arts. Crime rate is stupid high there and police officers are often killed by kids half their weight. That being said, the police are a bunch of abusive thugs who will rough people up and sometimes shoot and kill innocents.
You don't want that kind of crap here. Your police is fine, crime rate here is stupid low compared to the rest of the world. Learn to appreciate the things you have, because they don't last forever.

Thing is that's the not bar we want to set for ourselves in Ireland, so the Irish people have every right to expect and demand improvement in their Police force, rather than sit back, lie down, and accept decline.

corner of hells

Allah snackbar wrote: »

corner of hells wrote: »

Anecdotal evidence is often the best evidence.

So you've never told a story that you've heard first hand from someone else , I mean he didn't say he went to mars just that he was let pass out without passing one part of the physical exam , I think I'll just post humorous one liners in future to see how many thanks I can get

The way you describe that Garda , it sounds like you don't like him , you call him a useless **** , calling him fat and then say he had a drink driving conviction having after given a half arsed account of how "he" told you how he failed a part of the fitness test and was then allowed pass out as a Garda.

Me personally I would never admit to failing a part of a fitness test not once , twice but three time's to anyone let alone anyone who dislikes me.

Can you see how it sounds like a fairy story ?

Allah snackbar

corner of hells wrote: »

The way you describe that Garda , it sounds like you don't like him , you call him a useless **** , calling him fat and then say he had a drink driving conviction having after given a half arsed account of how "he" told you how he failed a part of the fitness test and was then allowed pass out as a Garda.

Me personally I would never admit to failing a part of a fitness test not once , twice but three time's to anyone let alone anyone who dislikes me.

Can you see how it sounds like a fairy story ?

Yes , it's all a lie , he's actually still in the guards , never failed his fitness test and climbs Everest every 6 weeks for charity ,he's a non drinker ,a midwife on his days off while running a meals on wheels for the elderly , does that make you feel better :rolleyes:

Professor Moriarty

Allah snackbar wrote: »

Yes , it's all a lie , he's actually still in the guards , never failed his fitness test and climbs Everest every 6 weeks for charity ,he's a non drinker ,a midwife on his days off while running a meals on wheels for the elderly , does that make you feel better :rolleyes:

Sounds much more plausible.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Allah snackbar wrote: »

Ok ? I know him personally , when he passed out he had never completed the run he had to pass the physical , I think he told me that you had to run a mile and a half in 11 minutes or something like that , he was never able to beat the time they set as a minimum standard of fitness and they let him do it 3 times , he told me himself that he wasn't far off it twice but they just let him off with it , he was done for drink driving about 3 years ago and he retired shortly after .
I don't know what makes you think it would be in my interest to make up something like this , would you care to elaborate , and believe me I don't really give a **** what you think but I'd like to go some way in understanding your idiotic post

But you did care otherwise you wouldn't have bothered with the explanation.

Potential-Monke

Some people have got the point of losing the height restriction here. The Garda? are a community based force. For years the work of the Garda? was assisted by the help of the general public. Ask any of your parents or grandparents what they remember of the Garda?, and they will tell you their names, because they got on with the nice public and the criminals were usually scared of them. Why? Because the Garda would batter you. You didn't cross them because you'd get a beating.

Now, the Garda? are much more approachable. Yes, there are times when the big burly guards are required, but less and less are needed these days. 95% of the issues Garda? are involved with are resolved peacefully with no requirement for physical force.

However, i do agree that the fitness should be a core part of the force. The problem is, because it's been this way all along, in order to now demand that fitness be a core part, it will have to be part of the working day. The RSU already get part of their day to gym it up. The regular, traffic, etc are so understaffed that it would't be feasible to bring that in. And before anyone says anything, other police forces get gym time as part of their paid day.

As for the training in Templemore, the "run" is not a requirement to pass (well, it wasn't 11 years ago when i joined). They prefer you to pass it, but you if you fail it it has no effect on your "passing out". The PCT (phsyical test to get in in the first place) is handy. Anyone with a bit of fitness will pass it.

Also, there are sections of AGS that are intimidating, ie: RSU in full gear, balaclavas, military style uniform, MP7 and Glock, maybe a Benelli, 4-6 of them... They're quite intimidating, regardless of size.

The uniform for the regular, in general, it outdated and not suitable for policing today. Shirt and tie? Dress trousers? High-vis jackets that come in a few sizes (XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL, XXL), shirts that are made by the cheapest provider (so badly that the collars weren't designed with a tie in mind, so the tie pushes up a collar), heavy thread pants with no useful pockets, a stab vest that's outdated and way too heavy/cumbersome, a utility belt that has been proven to cause back problems, a small can of the near lowest strength pepper spray, and a metal ASP that's apparently not as dangerous as a wooden one.

Anyway, i left, couldn't be dealing with a public who judged me before i even spoke to them. I'm not massive by any means, i'm 5'6", was overweight for a good few years, but i was sound. I didn't judge, i didn't pick on people, i treated everyone (even the scum) with respect, because too many people with phones recording and uploading select clips. There's a picture of me chasing a woman at a protest, and the article was making it out like i was the bad one, whereas she had just slammed the window of a car so hard that i was surprised it didn't break. She was being a nuisance, and knew it, so she never came within reach. But the media portrayed me as the bad guy in it.

Ye have the police force that the Government made, based on feedback from the community. Ye want a more aggressive, stronger force? It's not going to happen. There's too much PC, not enough Garda?, No proper equipment, no support, management that want to reprimand for every little thing... I'm surprised there's a force left to be honest...

TimeToShine

I would consider it a very good thing that we live in a country where crime and law breaking are so low that these pudgy tubsters can become gardai. I'm sure if things were to ever deteriorate we would react accordingly in our hiring policy.

corner of hells

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Some people have got the point of losing the height restriction here. The Garda? are a community based force. For years the work of the Garda? was assisted by the help of the general public. Ask any of your parents or grandparents what they remember of the Garda?, and they will tell you their names, because they got on with the nice public and the criminals were usually scared of them. Why? Because the Garda would batter you. You didn't cross them because you'd get a beating.

Now, the Garda? are much more approachable. Yes, there are times when the big burly guards are required, but less and less are needed these days. 95% of the issues Garda? are involved with are resolved peacefully with no requirement for physical force.

However, i do agree that the fitness should be a core part of the force. The problem is, because it's been this way all along, in order to now demand that fitness be a core part, it will have to be part of the working day. The RSU already get part of their day to gym it up. The regular, traffic, etc are so understaffed that it would't be feasible to bring that in. And before anyone says anything, other police forces get gym time as part of their paid day.

As for the training in Templemore, the "run" is not a requirement to pass (well, it wasn't 11 years ago when i joined). They prefer you to pass it, but you if you fail it it has no effect on your "passing out". The PCT (phsyical test to get in in the first place) is handy. Anyone with a bit of fitness will pass it.

Also, there are sections of AGS that are intimidating, ie: RSU in full gear, balaclavas, military style uniform, MP7 and Glock, maybe a Benelli, 4-6 of them... They're quite intimidating, regardless of size.

The uniform for the regular, in general, it outdated and not suitable for policing today. Shirt and tie? Dress trousers? High-vis jackets that come in a few sizes (XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL, XXL), shirts that are made by the cheapest provider (so badly that the collars weren't designed with a tie in mind, so the tie pushes up a collar), heavy thread pants with no useful pockets, a stab vest that's outdated and way too heavy/cumbersome, a utility belt that has been proven to cause back problems, a small can of the near lowest strength pepper spray, and a metal ASP that's apparently not as dangerous as a wooden one.

Anyway, i left, couldn't be dealing with a public who judged me before i even spoke to them. I'm not massive by any means, i'm 5'6", was overweight for a good few years, but i was sound. I didn't judge, i didn't pick on people, i treated everyone (even the scum) with respect, because too many people with phones recording and uploading select clips. There's a picture of me chasing a woman at a protest, and the article was making it out like i was the bad one, whereas she had just slammed the window of a car so hard that i was surprised it didn't break. She was being a nuisance, and knew it, so she never came within reach. But the media portrayed me as the bad guy in it.

Ye have the police force that the Government made, based on feedback from the community. Ye want a more aggressive, stronger force? It's not going to happen. There's too much PC, not enough Garda?, No proper equipment, no support, management that want to reprimand for every little thing... I'm surprised there's a force left to be honest...

Is there any chance you're the bloke snackbars rattling on about ?

please helpThank YOU

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Some people have got the point of losing the height restriction here. The Garda? are a community based force. For years the work of the Garda? was assisted by the help of the general public. Ask any of your parents or grandparents what they remember of the Garda?, and they will tell you their names, because they got on with the nice public and the criminals were usually scared of them. Why? Because the Garda would batter you. You didn't cross them because you'd get a beating.

Now, the Garda? are much more approachable. Yes, there are times when the big burly guards are required, but less and less are needed these days. 95% of the issues Garda? are involved with are resolved peacefully with no requirement for physical force.

However, i do agree that the fitness should be a core part of the force. The problem is, because it's been this way all along, in order to now demand that fitness be a core part, it will have to be part of the working day. The RSU already get part of their day to gym it up. The regular, traffic, etc are so understaffed that it would't be feasible to bring that in. And before anyone says anything, other police forces get gym time as part of their paid day.

As for the training in Templemore, the "run" is not a requirement to pass (well, it wasn't 11 years ago when i joined). They prefer you to pass it, but you if you fail it it has no effect on your "passing out". The PCT (phsyical test to get in in the first place) is handy. Anyone with a bit of fitness will pass it.

Also, there are sections of AGS that are intimidating, ie: RSU in full gear, balaclavas, military style uniform, MP7 and Glock, maybe a Benelli, 4-6 of them... They're quite intimidating, regardless of size.

The uniform for the regular, in general, it outdated and not suitable for policing today. Shirt and tie? Dress trousers? High-vis jackets that come in a few sizes (XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL, XXL), shirts that are made by the cheapest provider (so badly that the collars weren't designed with a tie in mind, so the tie pushes up a collar), heavy thread pants with no useful pockets, a stab vest that's outdated and way too heavy/cumbersome, a utility belt that has been proven to cause back problems, a small can of the near lowest strength pepper spray, and a metal ASP that's apparently not as dangerous as a wooden one.

Anyway, i left, couldn't be dealing with a public who judged me before i even spoke to them. I'm not massive by any means, i'm 5'6", was overweight for a good few years, but i was sound. I didn't judge, i didn't pick on people, i treated everyone (even the scum) with respect, because too many people with phones recording and uploading select clips. There's a picture of me chasing a woman at a protest, and the article was making it out like i was the bad one, whereas she had just slammed the window of a car so hard that i was surprised it didn't break. She was being a nuisance, and knew it, so she never came within reach. But the media portrayed me as the bad guy in it.

Ye have the police force that the Government made, based on feedback from the community. Ye want a more aggressive, stronger force? It's not going to happen. There's too much PC, not enough Garda?, No proper equipment, no support, management that want to reprimand for every little thing... I'm surprised there's a force left to be honest...

Was the pay/salary very good in the garda?

masculinist

Gardai rarely have to tackle a criminal solo. A call in on the radio and the criminal will be heavily outnumbered and dragged off. Thats how it should be. Criminals dont deserve to be treated like someone who has entered a competition with rules. Crime fighting is not that sort of challenge. Criminals have no respect for rules. However I think a requirement of the job should be to maintain a certain level of fitness. A Garda having a heart attack while struggling with a criminal is not something I want to see happen.

90% of Gardai I encounter are very nice. However theres a 10% with a weird attitude who I think are in desperate need of public relations training. Now I fully understand that weird attitude might be a byproduct of being on the front line having to deal with the dregs of society on a daily basis and trying to flip from one mental state to another in a short time can be difficult. I can attest to it myself that exposure to those sorts of people and having to communicate with them is psychologically stressful. So perhaps there needs to be a two pronged approach of 1) Exercise 2) Relaxation and meditation to avoid carrying stresses of the job home and when facing the general public.

markodaly

......... wrote: »

Not as soft as the Irish courts, which is a far far worse problem. Police are wasting their time in Ireland, and they know it.

Yes, I do acknowledge that the court systems are a bit of a joke most of the time. The whole 56 convictions and suspended sentences thing is a joke, so I do feel sorry for the Gardai when they arrest someone, go for a conviction but only for the Irish court system to fail them.

Also, in fairness the Gardai have been under resourced for years and have been shielded from any necessary reform, previous governments have to take the blame for this but the Gardai too as a force have to take some blame here. As an example, if it came between newer uniforms, better stab vets or modern IT systems versus wages, salary and allowances, then the Gardai will always take money in their back pocket every day of the week. There is money there going into the Justice Department but its overwhelmingly going to Gardai pay and not going into replacing outdated equipment or cars.

please helpThank YOU

markodaly wrote: »

Yes, I do acknowledge that the court systems are a bit of a joke most of the time. The whole 56 convictions and suspended sentences thing is a joke, so I do feel sorry for the Gardai when they arrest someone, go for a conviction but only for the Irish court system to fail them.

That is because maybe the person was being stitched up in the first place.:cool:

Allah snackbar

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

But you did care otherwise you wouldn't have bothered with the explanation.

I care because you think I lied about a fat cop who can't run , I'd have made it a bit more interesting if I thought it was going to be this topical