Why are our Gardai "soft" looking?

Allah snackbar

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Sounds much more plausible.

A guard that doesn't drink , now were in fantasy land

mynamejeff

Allah snackbar wrote: »

A guard that doesn't drink , now were in fantasy land

i know several who don't drink

if you dealt with public order issues every weekend caused bu drinking you mightn't either


whats with the attitude allah ?? is the chip on your shoulder hurting ya ?

the_syco

seachto7 wrote: »

I saw the police in action last week in Spain, and they don't f*ck about, and they actually look like they'd turn you over as well.

In Italy, they prefer to look good, but will equally f*ck you up.

seachto7 wrote: »

Too many stories in the news of Gardai getting assaulted.

Apart from the Gardai, how many of the others don't have guns?

Ben Gadot

corner of hells wrote: »

The way you describe that Garda , it sounds like you don't like him , you call him a useless **** , calling him fat and then say he had a drink driving conviction having after given a half arsed account of how "he" told you how he failed a part of the fitness test and was then allowed pass out as a Garda.

Me personally I would never admit to failing a part of a fitness test not once , twice but three time's to anyone let alone anyone who dislikes me.

Can you see how it sounds like a fairy story ?

Plenty of people admit to failing across all sectors. Some people just talk too much.

seachto7

To the ex Garda who posted about the uniforms.

Dress pants, shirt and tie are hilarious. Doing your job in a suit almost but don't many US police wear similar ?

Combat / hiking style pants and hiking style boots or shoes would be better and more comfortable too.

Allah snackbar

mynamejeff wrote: »

i know several who don't drink

if you dealt with public order issues every weekend caused bu drinking you mightn't either


whats with the attitude allah ?? is the chip on your shoulder hurting ya ?

I was being facetious

Potential-Monke

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Was the pay/salary very good in the garda?

Yes and no. My basic, after 10 years, was about 800 a week. Tax and deductions (government ones, not loans/insurance/etc) was around 350 of that. My personal loans was another 150, and then health insurance (imo 100% necessary) was 35 a week. So, not terrible, and the "big" cheque, the one once a month to pay for unsocial and weekend allowances, is about another 200 or less on top of that weeks wage. Not terrible wages, but when put with everything else, ie: terrible management, terrible equipment and tech, and mandatory court appearances on your days off, it wasn't worth it anymore. The money was the only reason I stayed as long as I did. But in the end it wasn't worth it.

corner of hells wrote: »

Is there any chance you're the bloke snackbars rattling on about ?

No idea who that is.

seachto7 wrote: »

To the ex Garda who posted about the uniforms.

Dress pants, shirt and tie are hilarious. Doing your job in a suit almost but don't many US police wear similar ?

Combat / hiking style pants and hiking style boots or shoes would be better and more comfortable too.

I'm open to correction, but I believe most us police have an operational uniform and a normal uniform for indoor or non-operational duties. We had the one uniform for everything. The current Community Policing uniform should be the main operational one.

please helpThank YOU

The Gardai are using to much `fairy liquid.

Allah snackbar

Potential-Monke wrote: »

No idea who that is.

He's talking about me , I said in a previous post that I knew a guy that passed out without passing the fitness test , a couple of posters were dubious and thought I was making up stories :rolleyes: you later proved me right in one of your posts that you can pass out without the fitness test , their silence is deafening since :pac:

mynamejeff

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

The Gardai are using to much `fairy liquid.

wtf does that mean ?

very random thing to say isnt it ?

Elemonator

Wasn't there speak of a tactical outfit for Gardai years ago?

Allah snackbar

mynamejeff wrote: »

wtf does that mean ?

very random thing to say isnt it ?

Fairy keeps your hands soft , from the ad years ago

Alf Veedersane

Elemonator wrote: »

Wasn't there speak of a tactical outfit for Gardai years ago?

A Tactilneck?

mynamejeff

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

That is because maybe the person was being stitched up in the first place.:cool:

stitched up 56 times ? :pac::pac::pac:

.........

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Yes and no. My basic, after 10 years, was about 800 a week. Tax and deductions (government ones, not loans/insurance/etc) was around 350 of that. My personal loans was another 150, and then health insurance (imo 100% necessary) was 35 a week. So, not terrible, and the "big" cheque, the one once a month to pay for unsocial and weekend allowances, is about another 200 or less on top of that weeks wage. Not terrible wages, but when put with everything else, ie: terrible management, terrible equipment and tech, and mandatory court appearances on your days off, it wasn't worth it anymore. The money was the only reason I stayed as long as I did. But in the end it wasn't worth it.



No idea who that is.



I'm open to correction, but I believe most us police have an operational uniform and a normal uniform for indoor or non-operational duties. We had the one uniform for everything. The current Community Policing uniform should be the main operational one.

Lots of younger Guards have left in recent years to do something else. That's something that never would have been heard in the Gardai of up until 10 years ago. A good few of my friends that joined the Gardai a few years back have left.

Pretty big decision to change careers, fair play to you for having the ability to do so, unlike a lot of the wasters in the public service.
The brightest and best are always able to leave of their own accord and do something else, whereas the wasters would be good for nothing else but staying.

What do you do now that you've left ?

Irish Stones

seachto7 wrote: »

Irish Stones wrote: »

Are you sure?
We think the same of ours and look at others' police with a bit of admiration.

I lived there. Yes.

You lived here,
I have been living here since I was born. I know what I am talking about.

Potential-Monke

......... wrote: »

Lots of younger Guards have left in recent years to do something else. That's something that never would have been heard in the Gardai of up until 10 years ago. A good few of my friends that joined the Gardai a few years back have left.

Pretty big decision to change careers, fair play to you for having the ability to do so, unlike a lot of the wasters in the public service.
The brightest and best are always able to leave of their own accord and do something else, whereas the wasters would be good for nothing else but staying.

What do you do now that you've left ?

It's true, used to be a time that when you became a Garda, you stayed a Garda. Now, it's just a job, that's the way management have made it. It's no longer a career, and that is probably part and parcel of the way things are these days, just a job.

I went back to what i was doing beforehand, Tech Support. Less stress, less money, and at least i'm appreciated here. The amount of work i done when i was a Garda to improve the image of AGS, and i got shi for thanks, or management stealing my ideas and to my face saying they came up with the ideas.

Anyway, any serving member currently reading this and positive that they should leave but are tentative about doing so for whatever reasons; just leave. Trust me. If you're thinking about it as much as i was before i left, it's the best thing that i have done in the last 15 years!

Gravelly

Potential-Monke wrote: »

It's true, used to be a time that when you became a Garda, you stayed a Garda. Now, it's just a job, that's the way management have made it. It's no longer a career, and that is probably part and parcel of the way things are these days, just a job.

I went back to what i was doing beforehand, Tech Support. Less stress, less money, and at least i'm appreciated here. The amount of work i done when i was a Garda to improve the image of AGS, and i got shi for thanks, or management stealing my ideas and to my face saying they came up with the ideas.

Anyway, any serving member currently reading this and positive that they should leave but are tentative about doing so for whatever reasons; just leave. Trust me. If you're thinking about it as much as i was before i left, it's the best thing that i have done in the last 15 years!

Funny, a guy in the company I work in left a few weeks ago to join the Guards - he had a well paid position here (much more than what he'll be getting in the Guards no matter how long he stays I'd imagine), and was tipped for promotion. He was near the very upper limit age-wise. He just always wanted to be a Guard.

RoboRat

I don't think the guards focus enough on unarmed combat and more specifically effective unarmed combat. They would also need to be training regularly to keep themselves fluid and sharp... not to mention physically fit.

This is not a criticism of the Gardai and I fully respect the hard job they do but they seem to rely on their baton and strength in numbers... realistically 2 guards with the right training should be able to control one person, yet I have seen numerous situations where there is upwards of 4 Guards trying to restrain someone who is inebriated- this is not isolated to Ireland, I have seen the same in the UK. It's not effective as 4 or more people end up getting in each others way.

My view is that the basic training they are given is not the right kind of training and I have seen open offers from the likes of John Kavanagh saying they would be willing to help. As far as I am aware, the combat training received by the Guards is very basic restraint techniques and I understand that they don't want to be drawn into a combat situation and risk people jumping them whilst engaged with another person, but surely having the right tools would only be beneficial as strength in numbers may not always be available.

6541

I know some of the ERU Gardaí, they are as badass as you will get. They are fine people. I agree there are some fools in the Gardaí but they are few and far between, the majority of Gardaí do a great job, I support the police in Ireland and would have no problem helping them.

Potential-Monke

The training doesn't have an awful lot to do with it. The main problem is the claim culture. The Garda has to be careful because scumbag A will have a claim in against the arresting Garda because they twisted his arm too much, he got a bloody nose while resisting arrest (which, obviously, he wasn't resisting). It's next to impossible to arrest someone without hurting them if they're resisting (and nearly everyone resists). Put that on top of people poking their phones in your face while you're trying to effect an arrest, others shouting unmerciful abuse at you, some even try to help the person getting arrested. And people say numbers help? There were times when it was just me and a colleague, no back up due to it being too busy or something big was on and took all the operational Garda? because overtime doesn't exist any more.

Finally, it's the Fight or Flight situation. The Garda? are just doing their job, what they're being paid to do, so even though it's 100% effort, it pales in comparison to the unexpected and inexplicable strength someone gets when they get into Fight or Flight mode. You've all heard the stories of people being able to lift a car off someone during a high pressure situation. The same happens when a scumbag gets it into his/her head that they're not getting arrested, the strength they get is immense. Don't care who you are or what background you have, it is not simple and straight forward to effect a safe arrest on someone resisting. And even those of you who might have training in certain self-defence, that could come back to bite you if the defence can prove you used too much force, as being trained to defend yourself usually ends up in the person attacking you getting hurt, and you can't be doing that to the lovely scumbag population, because not only will the scumbag sue, but management will not back you up, but instead throw you to the wolves.

RoboRat

Potential-Monke wrote: »

The training doesn't have an awful lot to do with it. The main problem is the claim culture. The Garda has to be careful because scumbag A will have a claim in against the arresting Garda because they twisted his arm too much, he got a bloody nose while resisting arrest (which, obviously, he wasn't resisting). It's next to impossible to arrest someone without hurting them if they're resisting (and nearly everyone resists). Put that on top of people poking their phones in your face while you're trying to effect an arrest, others shouting unmerciful abuse at you, some even try to help the person getting arrested. And people say numbers help? There were times when it was just me and a colleague, no back up due to it being too busy or something big was on and took all the operational Garda? because overtime doesn't exist any more.

Obviously a change to legislation is required, how can so many countries have a police force that can use effective restraint without fear of being sued. I would be happy with body cameras and an independent review board; if someone was seen to be excessively resisting arrest, then there should be no fear of using a reflective amount of force. If the Gardai don't have guns then they should be at least allowed to use force when required.

Finally, it's the Fight or Flight situation. The Garda? are just doing their job, what they're being paid to do, so even though it's 100% effort, it pales in comparison to the unexpected and inexplicable strength someone gets when they get into Fight or Flight mode. You've all heard the stories of people being able to lift a car off someone during a high pressure situation. The same happens when a scumbag gets it into his/her head that they're not getting arrested, the strength they get is immense. Don't care who you are or what background you have, it is not simple and straight forward to effect a safe arrest on someone resisting. And even those of you who might have training in certain self-defence, that could come back to bite you if the defence can prove you used too much force, as being trained to defend yourself usually ends up in the person attacking you getting hurt, and you can't be doing that to the lovely scumbag population, because not only will the scumbag sue, but management will not back you up, but instead throw you to the wolves.

I disagree with this, with the right training and more importantly ongoing practice of this training, 2 officers should be able to restrain most people.

There are various locks, chokes etc that can be applied that can restrain or incapacitate someone but it requires ongoing training and implementation to develop the muscle memory to do them without thinking about it.

I have trained with massive rugby players and body builders and when you sink a choke in, the fight or flight takes hold. The problem is that the more they fight, the tighter the chokes becomes. It's non lethal and it will put them to sleep but it requires the person applying it to be responsible as if held too long, it can kill. There is a risk of death as perhaps the person has an existing condition, but the same can be said about a baton over the head or pepper spray that can cause respiratory arrest, stroke or heart attack.

Wrist locks, arm locks and the likes can also be very effective but again, if they struggle, there is a chance of them breaking a bone but that is their choice and the Guard should never have to face a court because of someone else's stupidity.

I know that there needs to be massive changes but at the same time I feel that if we are to continue with an unarmed police force, they should be given all the tools they need to be able to their job, not to mention the support of the public so that they can do so without fear of prosecution, providing they were acting in a responsible manner.

ohnonotgmail

RoboRat wrote: »

Obviously a change to legislation is required, how can so many countries have a police force that can use effective restraint without fear of being sued. I would be happy with body cameras and an independent review board; if someone was seen to be excessively resisting arrest, then there should be no fear of using a reflective amount of force. If the Gardai don't have guns then they should be at least allowed to use force when required.



I disagree with this, with the right training and more importantly ongoing practice of this training, 2 officers should be able to restrain most people.

There are various locks, chokes etc that can be applied that can restrain or incapacitate someone but it requires ongoing training and implementation to develop the muscle memory to do them without thinking about it.

I have trained with massive rugby players and body builders and when you sink a choke in, the fight or flight takes hold. The problem is that the more they fight, the tighter the chokes becomes. It's non lethal and it will put them to sleep but it requires the person applying it to be responsible as if held too long, it can kill. There is a risk of death as perhaps the person has an existing condition, but the same can be said about a baton over the head or pepper spray that can cause respiratory arrest, stroke or heart attack.

there are good reasons why choke holds are banned by police departments worldwide. they have the unfortunate side-effect of causing death if not done properly.

RoboRat wrote: »

Wrist locks, arm locks and the likes can also be very effective but again, if they struggle, there is a chance of them breaking a bone but that is their choice and the Guard should never have to face a court because of someone else's stupidity.

I know that there needs to be massive changes but at the same time I feel that if we are to continue with an unarmed police force, they should be given all the tools they need to be able to their job, not to mention the support of the public so that they can do so without fear of prosecution, providing they were acting in a responsible manner.

society is heading in the other direction. if more police officers can detain somebody without having to risk damaging the suspect then so be it.

TallGlass

RoboRat wrote: »

chokes etc that can be applied that can restrain or incapacitate someone

Can you imagine the storm of shiiit that would come down if you as a Garda choked someone.

That is without a doubt a career ender if you ever tried that one.

The Garda are luck there still allowed even touch people at this stage.

RoboRat

they have the unfortunate side-effect of causing death if not done properly.

I do them many times 2 - 3 nights a week for over 5 years and I have never killed anyone.. I've put people to sleep (and been put to sleep myself) but never killed anyone. It requires training and knowing when to let go but there is more chance of killing someone with a baton or pepper spray (especially with the way of nations health is going).

society is heading in the other direction. if more police officers can detain somebody without having to risk damaging the suspect then so be it.

You cannot detain a suspect who doesn't want to be detained without using force. At present this is done through volume of numbers but it's still done through force. In other countries the police have guns and that is how they detain or else the have the right to use the necessary force. The legislation needs to be looked at so that the Gardai have the right to use the necessary force without landing a disciplinary.

ohnonotgmail

RoboRat wrote: »

I do them many times 2 - 3 nights a week for over 5 years and I have never killed anyone.. I've put people to sleep (and been put to sleep myself) but never killed anyone. It requires training and knowing when to let go but there is more chance of killing someone with a baton or pepper spray (especially with the way of nations health is going).

and there is your problem. you are doing them 2-3 nights a week. a guard wont.

team_actimel

They're so doughy looking.

FGR

Why are gardai so soft looking? I think it's primarily due to the fact that the organisation isn't in any way as organised or modernised as other forces are.

There's no time dedicated to keeping gardai up to date on legislation, policy and procedure or on the use of equipment. It's mostly done by paper exercise and everyone is expected to 'keep up' even though revised/new policies are brought in on a near daily basis. How could they focus on something like fitness or well being when they can't get the basics right?

Morale is through the floor for a reason - and that reason existed long before any scandals broke out. A lack of appreciation by way of promotion, lateral movement or support from higher ranks when vexatious complaints are made. A burden of excess paperwork and no allocated time to do it - causing guards to hide in offices to get the work done at the worst possible times with a threat of discipline. The paperwork in AGS has increased three fold in the last ten years.

In addition to this gardai manage immigration, out of hours social work and associated criminal offences, animal control, serious crime, petty crime, traffic enforcement, court security, prisoner management and conveyance, investigation of drugs detections by revenue/customs etc that many foreign services don't have within their remit. Also said gardai take on all of these responsibilities with a lower officer per 1000 population ratio than other services.

Something small like how a garda must write everything a person says in an interview - the legal requirement for this was abolished in the UK decades ago with the introduction of the dictaphone. Gardai still are obliged to do it even though the majority of interviews are recorded on video.

I personally think it's down to a lack of will to invest in policing in this country. The guards are a necessity in society yet many want to ignore it as they deal with the worst of the worst. The primary reason why so many Garda Inspectorate reports were ignored - because the majority of improvements would require massive investment. The Government doesn't want to do that - even if it would pay for itself in the long run.

Persephone kindness

seachto7 wrote: »

You look at them, and they don't look in any way threatening, or authoritative.

Because they are not sociopaths.

Persephone kindness

Real strength is not thuggery. And thuggery or hardness undermines authority. Studies show it makes people sympathize with criminals as the underdog.

The more brutish authority is the less people want to identify with it and the less they respect or recognize it's legitimacy. Even if it's not justified.



After the civil war people didn't trust the state so instead of a 'HARD' police force. They gave us 'guardians of the peace'. I prefer it.