It goes from bad to worse for the Gardai

Little CuChulainn · 14-05-2017 08:38PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Well I wouldn't want you or your colleagues getting into trouble by posting stuff that you may not be allowed to. Certainly if I was participating in a thread about my employer I'd be bound by rules and/or may not be able to contribute at all.. I'd imagine for AGS members it's even more strict?

But anyway... care to comment on the substance of the complaints/points made rather than the same old deflection tactics?

Not really. It's nothing you haven't said before and I'd hate to distress you by having an opinion. Just pointing out your hypocritical position.

Barbie! wrote: »

I honestly thought it was a million a year. Now I've looked it up that does appear to be true. 1 million from October 11 to December 16.

There's not much excuse for the organisation having inaccurate figures because there should be procedures in place for the proper monitoring of figures. But there wasn't. One day they just started asking the Garda logging the checkpoints for the numbers that went through a checkpoint, not just the ones that were tested, without any forewarning or explanation. And the numbers were just added as a footnote too not logged as a data point. While I don't think the inquiry will be able to ascertain very much, I'd expect most of the inaccuracies to be from the 2011 side of the timeline.

Fred Swanson · 14-05-2017 08:39PM

This post has been deleted.

please helpThank YOU · 14-05-2017 08:45PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Great Post.

......... · 14-05-2017 08:53PM

Mokuba wrote: »

Some infuriatingly stupid comments in this thread.

Most guards are decent people - struggling in a thankless job. The things that they are subjected to on a daily/weekly basis, most never have to experience in their entire lives. It is a tremendously difficult job.

God forbid they be looking forward to retirement, just like every other person would be. A small benefit for having to turn up at car wreckages with multiple people dead. Having to tell Mothers that their sons and daughters have passed. Having to be subjected to vile abuse from scumbags on a regular basis. Watching criminals walk free after weeks and weeks of work went into getting them into the court in the first place. Being forced to move away from home with, in most cases, no option of getting back into the same county except by quitting altogether.

God forbid they go on strike to see what was taken away from them restored - like they were promised. Not even looking for more, just a restoration. If it was you, you would do the exact same thing. The hypocrisy of some of these comments can be smelt an absolute mile away.

I feel bad for those people now - scandals are coming out, but there are bad apples in every walk of life. Most of these people are trying to make a living, and are doing the best they can.

I think that these threads allow those who have stupidly negative views of Gardaí to come out and claim the most ridiculous nonsense. Anecdotes which could be fabricated/word of mouth/an unfortunate case of bad timing etc.

Only now are there proper numbers being brought into AGS to actually make a difference, rather than seeing Gardaí get lost among 50 different things.

Obviously these scandals are completely unacceptable. I'm not looking to trivialise anything. Changes do need to take place. But a lot of it is coming from higher up the chain, or in the cases where it isn't - it's a small minority. There does need to be change, but I'm sure the majority of the Gardaí want that too.

I don't know what thread you're reading, but it's not this one.

Very few people if any here are complaining about ordinary rank and file Gardai, they are complaining about the actual problem - Gardai management and their shenanigans.

Surely you wouldn't be attempting to deflect from the obvious mismanagement and subversion of the force by it's management ?

steddyeddy · 14-05-2017 08:59PM

The organisation protects the bad apples at the expense of those trying to root them out. There might be only a few bad apples but there is a culture of protecting those bad apples.

On top of that there is a lack of professionalism in the force.

koumi · 14-05-2017 09:00PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I'd imagine all the garda are having a blow out on a different thread, somewhere else, where it's nice and quiet, somewhere they don't have to be identified.

RustyNut · 14-05-2017 09:03PM

koumi wrote: »

I'd imagine all the garda are having a blow out on a different thread, somewhere else, where it's nice and quiet, somewhere they don't have to be identified.

What's app group probably.

......... · 14-05-2017 09:04PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

The organisation protects the bad apples at the expense of those trying to root them out. There might be only a few bad apples but there is a culture of protecting those bad apples.

On top of that there is a lack of professionalism in the force.

Ordinary Gardai can't do anything about the considerable rotten numbers in senior ranks and their lackies (how to you think they got promoted from the ranks in the first place ?).

If an ordinary Guard shows the slightest signs of knowing/acknowledging what goes on, as we've seen already, their lives are destroyed.

It's a bad state of affairs when citizens can't trust their own police force, it's like something in some tin pot country. I dread the day I ever have to ring them about any serious crime, god forbid I ever have to, I would be extremely reluctant to have any dealings with them. The cure might be worse than the disease.

And with new Gardai entrants now being paid about 23k, the quality isn't going to go up that's for sure.

hatrickpatrick · 14-05-2017 09:06PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

The organisation protects the bad apples at the expense of those trying to root them out. There might be only a few bad apples but there is a culture of protecting those bad apples.

On top of that there is a lack of professionalism in the force.

This comment should be auto-posted to every thread like this, as it fundamentally spells out what's going on.

When you have an organisation that from the top down conspires to make peoples' lives a living hell for having the temerity to suggest that their own colleagues should behave themselves, you have a serious, serious, serious problem.

steddyeddy · 14-05-2017 09:10PM

......... wrote: »

Ordinary Gardai can't do anything about those rotten in senior ranks and their lackies, if they show the slightest signs of knowing/acknowledging what goes on, as we've seen already, their lives are destroyed.

Yes I certainly feel sorry for them. They do a tough job.

steddyeddy · 14-05-2017 09:17PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This comment should be auto-posted to every thread like this, as it fundamentally spells out what's going on.

When you have an organisation that from the top down conspires to make peoples' lives a living hell for having the temerity to suggest that their own colleagues should behave themselves, you have a serious, serious, serious problem.

Thanks. It's true though. Are we to believe that a few bad apples are responsible for several scandals, cover ups and unprofessionalism?

......... · 14-05-2017 09:19PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Thanks. It's true though. Are we to believe that a few bad apples are responsible for several scandals, cover ups and unprofessionalism?

It's beyond the 'few bad apples' excuse. It's a toxic and dysfunctional workplace, and that's down to it's management which is not just simply incompetent alone, but worse.

jmayo · 14-05-2017 09:37PM

......... wrote: »

Ordinary Gardai can't do anything about the considerable rotten numbers in senior ranks and their lackies (how to you think they got promoted from the ranks in the first place ?).

If an ordinary Guard shows the slightest signs of knowing/acknowledging what goes on, as we've seen already, their lives are destroyed.

Actually there are probably so many rotten apples that the barrel has gone.
It might once have started out as a few rotten ones, but when you neglect to turf them out the whole lot job lot are affected.

Also if honest garda do see people getting away with this shyte then moral goes out the window.

......... wrote: »

It's a bad state of affairs when citizens can't trust their own police force, it's like something in some tin pot country. I dread the day I ever have to ring them about any serious crime, god forbid I ever have to, I would be extremely reluctant to have any dealings with them. The cure might be worse than the disease.

I have dealt with them on a number of occasions both as victim of burglary and trying to help them with video coverage of neighbouring breakins.
They were find to deal with, if somewhat blaise and even apathetic that there wasn't much hope of catching the ones that did it.

I actually do feel sorry for them when you see they have to deal with a justice system that basically throws out their hard work in trying to bring criminals to justice.
Sometimes we wrongly lay the blame at the guards for people not being behind bars when it is our justice system that is basically setup to allow repeat offenders prosper and a judiciary that are so removed from actual reality it is past a joke.

......... · 14-05-2017 09:43PM

jmayo wrote: »

Sometimes we wrongly lay the blame at the guards for people not being behind bars when it is our justice system that is basically setup to allow repeat offenders prosper and a judiciary that are so removed from actual reality it is past a joke.

I think that's when the rot started years ago, Gardai released their was little point in trying catch scroates because the courts did so little about them. Some Gardai started to occupy themselves with other interests.

Also the Kinihans, to give just one example, were allowed to amass one the largest criminal enterprises in the world from Ireland, with billions worth of property and interests from Spain to Brazil. The Sunday times done some great work documenting the value of it all recently, I don't have a link, because I read it on old fashioned paper, but the scale of their worldwide assets, from resorts to mines to quarries, is mind blowing, and not being reported here at all.

Irish Guitarist · 14-05-2017 10:41PM

The guards, the Catholics, the 36 year olds and the people that give out motorbike licences have really ruined this country.

Auguste Comte · 14-05-2017 10:45PM

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

The guards, the Catholics, the 36 year olds and the people that give out motorbike licences have really ruined this country.

Is there anything to be said for saying another mass having another enquiry?

hatrickpatrick · 15-05-2017 02:00AM

......... wrote: »

It's beyond the 'few bad apples' excuse. It's a toxic and dysfunctional workplace, and that's down to it's management which is not just simply incompetent alone, but worse.

Hanlon's Razor states that one should "never attribute to malice that which can be easily explained by stupidity" - it's safe enough to say that the utter cluster f*ck that is the Irish justice system can no longer be explained by stupidity alone, not even with the considerable mental gymnastics that the establishment and their eternal defenders are willing to put into that effort.

This developing wrongful surveillance scandal is extremely serious, and is almost guaranteed to reawaken the ghosts of the Garda station phone recordings scandal as well as the claims made in 2014 regarding the suspected bugging of the Garda Ombudsman. It displays a complete and total breakdown in the supposed system of checks and balances which this state relies upon to avoid abuses of power, and I think we've finally crossed the line (I believe we crossed it long ago, but now even from the establishment's point of view) beyond which going forward without an extensive and radical overhaul of the entire justice system - every underlying piece of legislation, every set of rules and protocols, every structure of hierarchal authority and every individual atop those hierarchies - is going to be totally impossible.

nice_guy80 · 15-05-2017 06:41AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Hanlon's Razor states that one should "never attribute to malice that which can be easily explained by stupidity" - it's safe enough to say that the utter cluster f*ck that is the Irish justice system can no longer be explained by stupidity alone, not even with the considerable mental gymnastics that the establishment and their eternal defenders are willing to put into that effort.

This developing wrongful surveillance scandal is extremely serious, and is almost guaranteed to reawaken the ghosts of the Garda station phone recordings scandal as well as the claims made in 2014 regarding the suspected bugging of the Garda Ombudsman. It displays a complete and total breakdown in the supposed system of checks and balances which this state relies upon to avoid abuses of power, and I think we've finally crossed the line (I believe we crossed it long ago, but now even from the establishment's point of view) beyond which going forward without an extensive and radical overhaul of the entire justice system - every underlying piece of legislation, every set of rules and protocols, every structure of hierarchal authority and every individual atop those hierarchies - is going to be totally impossible.

I think you're a bit ambitious in thinking that all those rules and protocols are actually in place
They cannot be, for stuff that isn't meant to be happening!

Kivaro · 15-05-2017 02:35PM

......... wrote: »

I dread the day I ever have to ring them about any serious crime, god forbid I ever have to, I would be extremely reluctant to have any dealings with them. The cure might be worse than the disease.

This is a big issue and it should be tackled with urgency if ever a competent Garda management/oversight structure is put into place.
It's like if we give them (the public) an attitude or negative experience dealing with us then they will stop contacting us. I've seen it and heard about it too often to think that these are isolated cases. This is also one of the reasons why crime statistics are not accurate in Ireland i.e. citizens not reporting crime to avoid Garda apathy.

I held off on getting a new passport for some time until it finally went online so that I wouldn't have to visit the local Garda station for a signature.
As a law abiding citizen, this is a sad state of affairs.

Please show us respect ............. and it will be reciprocated.

Green Peter · 15-05-2017 03:00PM

Kivaro wrote:

I held off on getting a new passport for some time until it finally went online so that I wouldn't have to visit the local Garda station for a signature. As a law abiding citizen, this is a sad state of affairs.

It's not! it's just stupidity!

lawred2 · 15-05-2017 03:10PM

Kivaro wrote:

I held off on getting a new passport for some time until it finally went online so that I wouldn't have to visit the local Garda station for a signature. As a law abiding citizen, this is a sad state of affairs.

Since when did you not have to have your identity verified at the local police station?

We renewed passport for our youngest recently and had to go the Gardai in Malahide!!

Fred Swanson · 15-05-2017 03:22PM

This post has been deleted.

lawred2 · 15-05-2017 03:24PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

how is identity verified?

e: sorry - I'm taking thread off topic. Apologies.

Kivaro · 15-05-2017 04:45PM

lawred2 wrote: »

how is identity verified?

e: sorry - I'm taking thread off topic. Apologies.

"The Passport Online Application is available to all Irish citizens who are over 18 years, have held an Irish Passport and have not changed their name from their previous passport."

From https://www.dfa.ie/passportonline/whocanapply/

It's amazing how easy the process is now; unfortunately it may not have applied to your youngest.

Mr.Micro · 15-05-2017 05:27PM

Kivaro wrote: »

This is a big issue and it should be tackled with urgency if ever a competent Garda management/oversight structure is put into place.
It's like if we give them (the public) an attitude or negative experience dealing with us then they will stop contacting us. I've seen it and heard about it too often to think that these are isolated cases. This is also one of the reasons why crime statistics are not accurate in Ireland i.e. citizens not reporting crime to avoid Garda apathy.

I held off on getting a new passport for some time until it finally went online so that I wouldn't have to visit the local Garda station for a signature.
As a law abiding citizen, this is a sad state of affairs.

Please show us respect ............. and it will be reciprocated.

Well said. The Government has neither the will or the bottle to deal with this. The police in Ireland need to be rebranded and cleaned up. The next Government, most likely FF, will do nothing either, as the rot set in when they were in charge in the past.

tayto lover · 15-05-2017 05:30PM

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Well said. The Government has neither the will or the bottle to deal with this. The police in Ireland need to be rebranded and cleaned up. The next Government, most likely FF, will do nothing either, as the rot set in when they were in charge in the past.

It's the political interference that is the cause of much of the trouble.
We have to stop the Govt appointing their own people to top positions in the Garda, Army, Judiciary etc.
I'm fed up saying this at this stage.

diomed · 15-05-2017 06:16PM

tayto lover wrote: »

We have to stop the Govt Commissioner appointing their her own people to top positions in the Garda, Army, Judiciary etc.
I'm fed up saying this at this stage.

Unsackable.
I think we will get a report that the Garda on the one hand something, and on the other hand something else, and we must do something about procedures, and is there anything to be said for another cup of tea.

Ulysses Gaze · 15-05-2017 06:21PM

diomed wrote: »

Unsackable.
I think we will get a report that the Garda on the one hand something, and on the other hand something else, and we must do something about procedures, and is there anything to be said for another cup of tea.

They'll circle the wagons, deny everything (i.e. it's only a minority) and hope it all blows over.

Unless several hundred thousand people went out and protested this, and turned it into an election issue, then nothing will change.

Even then, nothing would change. Probably.

Kivaro · 15-05-2017 08:28PM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

They'll circle the wagons, deny everything (i.e. it's only a minority) and hope it all blows over.

Unless several hundred thousand people went out and protested this, and turned it into an election issue, then nothing will change.

Even then, nothing would change. Probably.

I think they might baton charge us .............. with a vengeance!

......... · 15-05-2017 09:14PM

Kivaro wrote: »

This is a big issue and it should be tackled with urgency if ever a competent Garda management/oversight structure is put into place.
It's like if we give them (the public) an attitude or negative experience dealing with us then they will stop contacting us. I've seen it and heard about it too often to think that these are isolated cases. This is also one of the reasons why crime statistics are not accurate in Ireland i.e. citizens not reporting crime to avoid Garda apathy.

I held off on getting a new passport for some time until it finally went online so that I wouldn't have to visit the local Garda station for a signature.
As a law abiding citizen, this is a sad state of affairs.

Please show us respect ............. and it will be reciprocated.

It seems the Gardai hierarchy are now more interested in investigating anyone who dares/has the stupidity to report anything to the authorities, rather than investigate any real criminals.

I know Ireland has never been perfect, what country is, but to see us with Police hierarchy that is now a dangerous, untouchable, uncontrollable, and untrustworthy law unto themselves, a hierarchy that see's honest citizens as an enemy and a threat, while criminals effectively do what they like, is a sad day indeed.

It goes from bad to worse for the Gardai

Comments