It goes from bad to worse for the Gardai

RustyNut

Allinall wrote: »

But you agree the claim was unsubstantiated?

I think the Irish Independent have a lot more credibility at this stage than AGS.

steddyeddy

greenoverred wrote: »

Is it not a bit strange that this article suggests that numerous people have been paid if to keep this story quite. Like who actually paid them. Do the guards have some kind of a hush fund for keeping people silent. Because if they do they need to be given a serious budget increase to get over the next few months.

Yes it is strange, but not far fetched unfortunately. The state settled the detective's legal action out of court so I imagine they paid off members.

greenoverred

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yes it is strange, but not far fetched unfortunately. The state settled the detective's legal action out of court so I imagine they paid off members.

But who's paying them. Who's signing the cheques. Is it Noreen or someone in the Dept of Justice or is it Enda himself and did anyone ever say what the hell are these cheques about.
Also will the whistleblower have to return his as he doesn't seem to be keeping his side of the bargain

unfortunately

Garda corruption? Sure I wouldn't know, I'm from Donegal.

Oh yeah, right!

RustyNut

greenoverred wrote: »

But who's paying them.

Joe Soap the tax payer.

tomwaterford

greenoverred wrote: »

Is it not a bit strange that this article suggests that numerous people have been paid if to keep this story quite. Like who actually paid them. Do the guards have some kind of a hush fund for keeping people silent. Because if they do they need to be given a serious budget increase to get over the next few months.

You've managed to take from the article they've been paid....but couldn't see it was the government paid them.....hmmm

nhunter100

RustyNut wrote:

I think the Irish Independent have a lot more credibility at this stage than AGS.

That's coming from a very low base.

nhunter100

tomwaterford wrote:

You've managed to take from the article they've been paid....but couldn't see it was the government paid them.....hmmm

Methinks he does protest too much.

greenoverred

tomwaterford wrote: »

You've managed to take from the article they've been paid....but couldn't see it was the government paid them.....hmmm

What ??? It was the government !. What does that even mean. I asked who signed the cheques. As in who. What person. Who had knowledge that the guards were tapping the phones of innocent people and decided certain people had to be paid to keep this silent. I didn't really expect you to know this as the article is so vague we were hardly going to get important information like that but why bother reply with something so daft.
I'm sorry lads. Im not a fan of the independent and the likes of this article is the reason why. It tries to dress itself up as a serious broadsheet but in reality it's a tabloid rag. Regularly the headlines and opinions in the the indo articles have absolutely nothing to do with the story. I could be proved totally wrong on this and the journalist may have a full barrel of worms ready to open but I doubt it.

greenoverred

nhunter100 wrote: »

Methinks he does protest too much.

Protest about what. What do you think I'm protesting about.

Are Am Eye

There's another one..... https://www.digitalrights.ie/garda-who-abused-phone-records-to-spy-on-ex-will-not-be-prosecuted-will-keep-job/

These are just the few that get out. And you can have no doubt it continues whole scale.

steddyeddy

Are Am Eye wrote: »

There's another one..... https://www.digitalrights.ie/garda-who-abused-phone-records-to-spy-on-ex-will-not-be-prosecuted-will-keep-job/

These are just the few that get out. And you can have no doubt it continues whole scale.

So that guard is still in the job? Is there any wonder there's constant scandals. Not fit for purpose.

Are Am Eye

Are Am Eye wrote: »

There's another one..... https://www.digitalrights.ie/garda-who-abused-phone-records-to-spy-on-ex-will-not-be-prosecuted-will-keep-job/

These are just the few that get out. And you can have no doubt it continues whole scale.

That's very outdated information.
That detective sergeant has been suspended for years.
Maybe don't just take years old information as fact now?

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

So that guard is still in the job? Is there any wonder there's constant scandals. Not fit for purpose.

That article is dated 2011.

Are Am Eye

steddyeddy wrote: »

So that guard is still in the job? Is there any wonder there's constant scandals. Not fit for purpose.

This only came out because she effectively told the man in question that she knew what phone calls.
No such slip need happen for bugs on whistle blowers, politicians, alleged criminals or any perceived enemies inside or outside the force.

John Barrett for example would want to be careful what he says over the phone.

tomwaterford

bubblypop wrote: »

Maybe don't just take years old information as fact now?

Is it false after a few years???




Anywhoo....more up to date..just for you..
Today

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/alan-kelly-believes-there-will-be-more-revelations-from-the-garda-college-789620.html

.........

Noreen O'Sullivan smug secure grin whenever she is asked any questions about Gardai mismanagement says it all . . . "You can't touch me, I've got far too much dirt on the politicians and well they know it."

Repeated announcements by said politicians that they have complete confidence in her every time another mismanagement scandal comes to light says it all as well.

Are Am Eye

bubblypop wrote: »

That's very outdated information.
That detective sergeant has been suspended for years.
Maybe don't just take years old information as fact now?

The public are well on to your lot at this stage bubbly.
The faux innocence is comical.
The corruption and dishonesty of ten years ago is continuing and accelerating. Open a newspaper.

steddyeddy

We need a guarda anti corruption unit.

.........

steddyeddy wrote: »

We need a guarda anti corruption unit.

you can be sure that in Ireland they would be the most corrupt of all . . .destroying the lives of any whistle blower that comes to their knowledge.

steddyeddy

......... wrote: »

you can be sure that in Ireland they would be the most corrupt of all . . .destroying the lives of any whistle blower that comes to their knowledge.

An EU body wouldn't be a bad idea.

.........

steddyeddy wrote: »

An EU body wouldn't be a bad idea.

They'd get nowhere. To be honest, the rot is so widespread and so deep in the Irish establishment, and benefiting so many people and their lackies, it's a waste of time.

Are Am Eye

steddyeddy wrote: »

We need a guarda anti corruption unit.

You need to bring in police chiefs from abroad and managers from private sector and put them ad the top tier management of the force. Their remit to run the force on a basis of ethics and adherance to the law. Punish and remove anyone doing otherwise.

The govt are afraid of this bevause such a management would speak and act freely and not always back up the govt. Thats a politically independent police force.

Exeggcute

Commissioner will be gone once she has secured her pension.

The force should be disbanded like the RUC

.........

Are Am Eye wrote: »

You need to bring in police chiefs from abroad and managers from private sector and put them ad the top tier management of the force. Their remit to run the force on a basis of ethics and adherance to the law. Punish and remove anyone doing otherwise.

It's never going to happen, but lets pretend it could :
You'd need to bring in foreign managers as well. If you allowed appointment of 'managers' from the Irish private sector, you'd be doomed. There's far to many connections going on.

Are Am Eye wrote: »

The govt are afraid of this bevause such a management would speak and act freely and not always back up the govt. Thats a politically independent police force.

The biggest problem facing any politician that has the balls to do something about senior Gardai, is that senior Guards have collected a lot of info on them over the years. Noreen O'Sullivan worked in an "anti-corruption" squad previously, so she has plenty to barter with. Hence the smug untouchable grins and smiles to the press whenever she's questioned about Gardai mismanagement.

Are Am Eye wrote: »

Commissioner will be gone once she has secured her pension.

When she's good and ready, they'll probably shift her to a top EU or UN job.

nice_guy80

What were they using all those accounts down in Templemore for?
Hiding money. And for what reason? Where was the money going?

Who sanctioned the transfer of €100,000 of taxpayers money to the Garda boat club - which is a completely separate sporting and social organisation...

_Kaiser_

Not surprising we have yet another scandal involving our amateur police force to be honest. Although there are individual Gardai who take the job and the responsibilities it comes with seriously, the force as a whole is poisoned by institutional corruption and apathy. O'Sullivan is just the latest figurehead/example of this. As we've seen with the stats manipulation and Templemore shenanigans, this is far more than just a few "bad apples".. these are just recent examples of unacceptable behaviour that stretches back decades. The rule of omerta is not just restricted to the bad guys either - these issues are only more widely known known because of social media .

Speaking of social media, it's always amusing to see the usual AGS posters here trying to brush it under the rug, or suggest that anyone who has a problem with it must have a chip/or have had run-ins with them.
Tell me folks, how does posting here (when some of you have previously outed yourselves as members) fit with the AGS social media usage policy? Mostly internal usage but there's some interesting stuff there about representing (or appearing to represent) the organisation online.

Ultimately though, the only thing that will fix these fundamental issues is an RUC/PSNI-style clearout and reform of the entire organisation. Until then nothing will change.

koumi

......... wrote: »

The biggest problem facing any politician that has the balls to do something about senior Gardai, is that senior Guards have collected a lot of info on them over the years. Noreen O'Sullivan worked in an "anti-corruption" squad previously, so she has plenty to barter with. Hence the smug untouchable grins and smiles to the press whenever she's questioned about Gardai mismanagement.

Indeed. The problem is that corruption is so widespread, not just in the force but it is embedded across the entire board, from the top drawer down and not just confined to the gardaí and despite efforts to address the issue repeatedly over the years there had been little success given how powerless the institutions charged with regulating here are. New laws need to be established, and new agencies formed with greater powers outside the remit of those who would otherwise meddle in its ability to do its job. The SD included a proposal to establish an anti corruption agency, which would possibly be the only real solution at this stage and perhaps it's time enough now to make that a reality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd5wAg4GSss

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Commission_Against_Corruption_(New_South_Wales)
to give you an idea of how something like this would work.

The ICAC has jurisdiction over state and local government in New South Wales. This extends to parliamentarians, local councillors, the Governor of New South Wales, public servants, and staff of universities and state-owned corporations.[4] Anyone can refer a matter to the commission. In 2014 it was estimated that less than one per cent out of around 3,000 complaints annually result in a public hearing.[2] The commission has the coercive powers of a Royal Commission and can compel witnesses to testify. Public hearings are designed to act as a preventative measure against corruption.[2] Where the ICAC rules that an official has acted corruptly, the charges are referred to the criminal justice system for consideration by the Director of Public Prosecutions to lay criminal charges.

nhunter100

RTE carrying a report that a 'profile' was created on whistle blower Keith Harrison. A profile is usually created on a criminal or gangland figure according to the report on RTE. Sorry I can't link it but , really speaks volumes when the Garda view a whistle blower in the same context as a criminal.

_Kaiser_

nhunter100 wrote: »

RTE carrying a report that a 'profile' was created on whistle blower Keith Harrison. A profile is usually created on a criminal or gangland figure according to the report on RTE. Sorry I can't link it but , really speaks volumes when the Garda view a whistle blower in the same context as a criminal.

As I said above, it's the rule of omerta

Wikipedia wrote:

Omertà /oʊˈmɛərtə/ (Italian pronunciation: [omerˈta])[1] is a code of honor that places importance on silence, non-cooperation with authorities, and non-interference in the illegal actions of others. It originated and remains common in Southern Italy, where banditry and the Mafia-type criminal organizations (like the Camorra, Cosa Nostra, 'Ndrangheta and Sacra Corona Unita) are strong. It is also deeply rooted in rural Crete (Greece),[2] and Corsica.

It also exists, to a lesser extent, in certain Italian-American neighborhoods where the Italian-American Mafia has influence—and Italian ethnic enclaves in countries such as Germany, Canada, and Australia, where Italian organized crime exists. Retaliation against informers is common in criminal circles, where informers are known as "rats" or "snitches".

All sounds sadly familiar here.