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It goes from bad to worse for the Gardai

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    #152
    Northerngal
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 65 ✭✭Northerngal


    koumi wrote: »
    No, but you should be grateful for that.

    Why should I be grateful? ;)

    IMO I hope they keep the name!

    Will/could a short/medium/long-term international full transparency audit help us to trust AGS more?


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    #153
    greenoverred
    Registered Users Posts: 144 ✭✭greenoverred


    nhunter100 wrote: »
    Yet it has only come to light because a guard is pursuing a pcase through the courts. Are you suggesting no legacy issues should be dealt with even if those with questions to answer are still serving. I could understand your concern for NO'S if she only joined AGS in 2015.
    Do you not think the fact that this happened over 15 years ago is not an important part of this story. It makes me very sceptical about the rest of the story when the journalist is so reluctant to tell us this. And why is this "concerned" garda only coming forward now 15 years later


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    #154
    nhunter100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭nhunter100


    greenoverred wrote:
    Do you not think the fact that this happened over 15 years ago is not an important part of this story. It makes me very sceptical about the rest of the story when the journalist is so reluctant to tell us this. And why is this "concerned" garda only coming forward now 15 years later


    When it happened is irrelevant, I answered the rest of your comment already. You want a row no problem , but I'm not going to indulge you.


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    #155
    koumi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 646 ✭✭✭koumi


    Northerngal wrote: »
    Why should I be grateful? ;)

    IMO I hope they keep the name!

    Will/could a short/medium/long-term international full transparency audit help us to trust AGS more?
    I was pondering a new name the other day, PSI? IPS? I'm sure there's someone more creative than me but it's probably time they started working on it.


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    #156
    greenoverred
    Registered Users Posts: 144 ✭✭greenoverred


    nhunter100 wrote: »
    When it happened is irrelevant, I answered the rest of your comment already. You want a row no problem , but I'm not going to indulge you.
    A row. Is that what you call it when I question the fact that this happened 15 years ago. Ok you feel its irrelevant, I think it's very relevant especially after reading some of the comments in this thread. But that's just disagreeing with each other. If you are trying to avoid a row you should take a look at some of your own comments first and maybe tone down a bit on the smart arse comments


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    #157
    RustyNut
    Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    greenoverred wrote: »
    And why is this "concerned" garda only coming forward now 15 years later

    Covered up till now mabey?


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    #158
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    Ok let me break it down for you Greenoverred. It started 15 years ago. People were brought off. Recently someone else found out about this and brought it to the public's attention. That's how we are only now hearing about something that happened 15 years ago.


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    #159
    nhunter100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭nhunter100


    greenoverred wrote:
    A row. Is that what you call it when I question the fact that this happened 15 years ago. Ok you feel its irrelevant, I think it's very relevant especially after reading some of the comments in this thread. But that's just disagreeing with each other. If you are trying to avoid a row you should take a look at some of your own comments first and maybe tone down a bit on the smart arse comments


    What comments are you talking about? Care to elaborate.
    Also I find it strange that at first you claimed you would not open a link to the Indo what changed. As I said you same intent on having a row I'm not going to take the bait.


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    #160
    greenoverred
    Registered Users Posts: 144 ✭✭greenoverred


    Barbie! wrote: »
    Ok let me break it down for you Greenoverred. It started 15 years ago. People were brought off. Recently someone else found out about this and brought it to the public's attention. That's how we are only now hearing about something that happened 15 years ago.

    Is this in the article or have you made it up. Someone else seems to be claiming it ended 15 years ago. What is it. Why so many inconsistencies.
    I believe the indo have more tomorrow and maybe it will have a bit more substance but I'm afraid to say after what I've read in this thread so far it seems no one actually knows what this story is about


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    #161
    ALR1601129
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭ALR1601129


    robbiezero wrote: »
    GarIT wrote: »
    There are only tWo types of people in the RCC, those who commit abuse and those who have covered it up. Not a single good person has ever been catholic

    Not a fan of the Catholic Church by any means, but if you had said that on this site about Muslims or Islam you would think it was your birthday with all the cards you would be getting.
    There is NO positive discrimination on boards.ie. None. NEVER!


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    #162
    greenoverred
    Registered Users Posts: 144 ✭✭greenoverred


    nhunter100 wrote: »
    What comments are you talking about? Care to elaborate.
    Also I find it strange that at first you claimed you would not open a link to the Indo what changed. As I said you same intent on having a row I'm not going to take the bait.
    Right. Im not looking for a row with you. Dont be so sensitive when someone disagrees with you. I find the fact thst this happened over 15 years ago very relevant, you don't. I find it strange that the concerned garda has only come forward 15 years later, you don't. People disagree sometimes, that's life get over it. But if it makes you feel better I'll jump on the next garda bashing bandwagon exposed by the indo. Should be one along day soon. Just hope it's a bit more up to date and contains a bit more information then this crook of ****.


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    #163
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    greenoverred wrote: »
    I'm afraid to say after what I've read in this thread so far it seems no one actually knows what this story is about

    The government paying off people so as to stop them going to the press and to stop this becoming public knowledge



    Why don't they realease the names of all the innocent people they've wrongly tapped??


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    #164
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    greenoverred wrote: »
    Right. Im not looking for a row with you. Dont be so sensitive when someone disagrees with you. I find the fact thst this happened over 15 years ago very relevant, you don't. I find it strange that the concerned garda has only come forward 15 years later, you don't. .

    Would you prefer if it never came out??



    Surly the motives or otherwise of the gaurdd for telling are irelevant to the actual story of bugging of innocent the people's phones??


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    #165
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    No wonder the whistle blowers were demeaned, bullied, transferred between divisions, denied promotions, families intimidated and bad mouthed among the garda organisation and across media outlets

    And all it seems by garda management!

    The whistle blowers know how much dirty laundry there is.


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    #166
    greenoverred
    Registered Users Posts: 144 ✭✭greenoverred


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    The government paying off people so as to stop them going to the press and to stop this becoming public knowledge



    Why don't they realease the names of all the innocent people they've wrongly tapped??
    I agree 100%. Get it out there. Who were they bugging. How about a few facts in this story. Surely this brave source the journalist has could reveal a but more.


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    #167
    greenoverred
    Registered Users Posts: 144 ✭✭greenoverred


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    Would you prefer if it never came out??



    Surly the motives or otherwise of the gaurdd for telling are irelevant to the actual story of bugging of innocent the people's phones??
    But what has he actually told us. Id say brilliant if he came out and told us who was bugged and what exactly happened but as usual with the independent the story is full of innuendo and opinion but very little on facts or proof


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    #168
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    greenoverred wrote: »
    I agree 100%. Get it out there. Who were they bugging. How about a few facts in this story. Surely this brave source the journalist has could reveal a but more.

    Why don't the gaurds realease this info???
    They dislike it after all???

    Why is it always left to journalists/whistle blower to run the gauntlet and face the gaurds ruining their reputation....instead of the gaurds facing up to their mistakes?

    Too long have they been a law onto themselves


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    #169
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    greenoverred wrote: »
    But what has he actually told us. Id say brilliant if he came out and told us who was bugged and what exactly happened but as usual with the independent the story is full of innuendo and opinion but very little on facts or proof

    Simply put the gaurds could kill this story by realeasingbthe info..but won't??


    Are you implying noone was ever bugged wrongly by the gaurds?


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    #170
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,562 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Barbie! wrote: »
    Ok let me break it down for you Greenoverred. It started 15 years ago. People were brought off. Recently someone else found out about this and brought it to the public's attention. That's how we are only now hearing about something that happened 15 years ago.

    I'd be very interested in seeing how you can back up all these claims.


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    #171
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Allinall wrote: »
    I'd be very interested in seeing how you can back up all these claims.

    The claim wpuldn't be unusual for the organisation.


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    #172
    greenoverred
    Registered Users Posts: 144 ✭✭greenoverred


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    Simply put the gaurds could kill this story by realeasingbthe info..but won't??


    Are you implying noone was ever bugged wrongly by the gaurds?
    So A journalist trying to make a name for himself throws out a few vague allegations that people have been bugged illegally by the guards over 15 years ago and you reckon they should be releasing some of the most sensitive information they hold just to kill the story.Did the whistleblower not carry out some of the bugging so why can't he tell us who he bugged illegally 15 years ago. Im sorry mate but this story has an even worse smell of bull**** then the gsoc bugging story


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    #173
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    greenoverred wrote: »
    So A journalist trying to make a name for himself throws out a few vague allegations that people have been bugged illegally by the guards over 15 years ago and you reckon they should be releasing some of the most sensitive information they hold just to kill the story.Did the whistleblower not carry out some of the bugging so why can't he tell us who he bugged illegally 15 years ago. Im sorry mate but this story has an even worse smell of bull**** then the gsoc bugging story

    Surly innocent people being bugged isn't sensitive information? ?



    Look it....you know as well as I do,Whatll happen here

    The gaurds will close ranks,do their best to destroy the reputation of those wholl question them/expose such blaggarding and ride out the storm and get off Scott free as usual....

    .they are doing it as long as I can remember,it's old tricks to them at this stage


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    #174
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    greenoverred wrote: »
    So A journalist trying to make a name for himself throws out a few vague allegations that people have been bugged illegally by the guards over 15 years ago and you reckon they should be releasing some of the most sensitive information they hold just to kill the story.Did the whistleblower not carry out some of the bugging so why can't he tell us who he bugged illegally 15 years ago. Im sorry mate but this story has an even worse smell of bull**** then the gsoc bugging story

    A journalist does what journalists have been doing since the dawn of reporting. Teases out a bit of info with the promise of more to follow ie buy my newspaper to find out more as I drip feed you info for the next month.

    Not something I agree with but any newspaper would do the same.


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    #175
    Green Peter
    Registered Users Posts: 947 ✭✭✭Green Peter


    Barbie! wrote:
    A journalist does what journalists have been doing since the dawn of reporting. Teases out a bit of info with the promise of more to follow ie buy my newspaper to find out more as I drip feed you info for the next month.

    Barbie! wrote:
    Not something I agree with but any newspaper would do the same.

    It works even better for the tabloids!


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    #176
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,562 ✭✭✭Allinall


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    The claim wpuldn't be unusual for the organisation.

    The unsubstantiated claim?


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    #177
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Allinall wrote: »
    The unsubstantiated claim?

    No, abuse of power.


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    #178
    koumi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 646 ✭✭✭koumi


    This is from 2015
    http://www.thejournal.ie/state-surveillance-ireland-gardai-wiretapping-email-monitoring-gardai-2099537-May2015/
    Under the 1993 Act:
    Garda? or the Defence Forces can tap phones and listen to phone calls, open and read letters before they arrive to their recipient, and (potentially) read emails
    After the Garda Commissioner or Chief of Staff of the Defence Forces applies for permission from the Justice Minister
    For up to three months (extendable)
    If they can show the surveillance will yield evidence they couldn’t otherwise get
    As part of an investigation into serious crime, to prevent a serious crime, or to protect the security of the State
    Under the 2009 Act:
    Garda?, the Defence Forces and Revenue can secretly record you with audio and video devices
    For three months
    They can break into your home to implant a device, and again to remove it
    If they can, they have to get permission from a District Court judge, but if it’s an emergency, a “Superior Officer” in each agency decides, and they get 72 hours to engage in the surveillance
    Garda?, the Defence Forces and Revenue can secretly put a tracking device on your vehicle, and follow your movements
    For four months
    Without permission from a District Court judge, but with the approval of a “Superior Officer” within each agency.
    Interestingly, this year’s Garda S?och?na (Amendment) Act also gives the Garda S?och?na Ombudsman Commission (GSOC) powers of surveillance over Garda members it is investigating.
    So Garda? themselves can now be secretly bugged, wiretapped, recorded and have their internet use monitored, under the 1993 and 2009 Acts.

    and this from 2016
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/extension-of-surveillance-law-doomed-to-failure-1.2712656
    It also said existing systems whereby certain surveillance may be approved internally by An Garda S?och?na or other bodies were open to abuse.
    It noted one case where a Garda sergeant had used the data retention system to spy on her former partner.


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    #179
    Allinall
    Registered Users Posts: 6,562 ✭✭✭Allinall


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    No, abuse of power.

    But you agree the claim was unsubstantiated?


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    #180
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Allinall wrote: »
    But you agree the claim was unsubstantiated?

    People who ignored the corruption in the guards have been on the wrong side of history for a while now. I have no reason to doubt the claim. Even apart from the bugging we know there has been systematic scandals within the organisation. Agree?


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    #181
    greenoverred
    Registered Users Posts: 144 ✭✭greenoverred


    Barbie! wrote: »
    A journalist does what journalists have been doing since the dawn of reporting. Teases out a bit of info with the promise of more to follow ie buy my newspaper to find out more as I drip feed you info for the next month.

    Not something I agree with but any newspaper would do the same.

    Is it not a bit strange that this article suggests that numerous people have been paid if to keep this story quite. Like who actually paid them. Do the guards have some kind of a hush fund for keeping people silent. Because if they do they need to be given a serious budget increase to get over the next few months.


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