It goes from bad to worse for the Gardai

Ken.

Some new info coming out today. I've a feeling the indo has a lot more.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/innocent-people-wrongly-tapped-as-if-they-were-dealing-drugs-35719625.html

Thousands of Garda man hours were wasted tapping the phones of innocent people as part of investigations into crimes as serious as drug dealing, the Irish Independent can reveal.
Some of the taps were left active on the phones of innocent third parties for weeks - and were cancelled only when officers flagged their concern about their legitimacy.

It was further reported that an election worker for a serving politician is alleged to have had his mobile phone tapped by garda? - and the bugging stopped only when a detective raised concerns it was serving "political purposes".
The detective who challenged the activity feared garda? were acting for the benefit of the influential minister with or without his knowledge. He was transferred out of the force's intelligence department within two weeks of flagging his fears the force was being used for "political purposes".
Now with the issue set to be raised in the D?il, Social Protection Minister Leo Varadkar described this newspaper's revelations as issues of "great concern".
He said he expected T?naiste and Justice Minister Frances Fitzgerald to brief Cabinet on the matter, but added the matters date to before Fine Gael was in office.Circling the wagons already

Bolding and colour are mine. There is a lot more in the article but copywrite laws prohibit me from pasting any more.

My name is URL

an election worker for a serving politician is alleged to have had his mobile phone tapped

That's not new info but it could be the death knell in all of this.

It's not just corrupted but de-legitimizes our democracy. AGS needs to be aggressively reestablished like the RUC was

Few rotten apples my arse. Careful talking about it here on Boards though, where serving gardai are moderators.

tomwaterford

Barbie! wrote: »

Some new info coming out today. I've a feeling the indo has a lot more.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/innocent-people-wrongly-tapped-as-if-they-were-dealing-drugs-35719625.html

Thousands of Garda man hours were wasted tapping the phones of innocent people as part of investigations into crimes as serious as drug dealing, the Irish Independent can reveal.
Some of the taps were left active on the phones of innocent third parties for weeks - and were cancelled only when officers flagged their concern about their legitimacy.

It was further reported that an election worker for a serving politician is alleged to have had his mobile phone tapped by garda? - and the bugging stopped only when a detective raised concerns it was serving "political purposes".
The detective who challenged the activity feared garda? were acting for the benefit of the influential minister with or without his knowledge. He was transferred out of the force's intelligence department within two weeks of flagging his fears the force was being used for "political purposes".
Now with the issue set to be raised in the D?il, Social Protection Minister Leo Varadkar described this newspaper's revelations as issues of "great concern".
He said he expected T?naiste and Justice Minister Frances Fitzgerald to brief Cabinet on the matter, but added the matters date to before Fine Gael was in office.Circling the wagons already

Bolding and colour are mine. There is a lot more in the article but copywrite laws prohibit me from pasting any more.

There has been tribunals in this country for a lot less serious matters



But I don't think the political will is there for whatever reason from any of parties to tackle the gaurds over this

jmayo

My name is URL wrote: »

That's not new info but it could be the death knell in all of this.

It's not just corrupted but de-legitimizes our democracy. AGS needs to be aggressively reestablished like the RUC was

Few rotten apples my arse. Careful talking about it here on Boards though, where serving gardai are moderators.

One of the difficulties I see is the difference between RUC and AGS.
RUC was regional police force.
This is national police force which has it's tentacles stretching far and wide.

If they were bugging innocent people and, as the story above claims, were also bugging people involved in political circles, then as sure as hell they have dossiers on all major politicians and civil servants.

In the case of RUC it was easy for Westminister government and government officials to initiate and manage it's demise and creation of PSNI.
They were removed from the area.

I reckon it is a lot hard for Irish politicians and civil servants to do likewise with AGS.

After all it may not be dirt on an actual politician, but dirt on a number of colleagues that would bring a government down, dirt on a close relative that could ruin their career or even worse.

Something needs to be done, but do any of our politicians and civil servants have the balls and the willingness to take on the AGS.
Time will tell.

tayto lover

Barbie! wrote: »

Some new info coming out today. I've a feeling the indo has a lot more.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/innocent-people-wrongly-tapped-as-if-they-were-dealing-drugs-35719625.html

Thousands of Garda man hours were wasted tapping the phones of innocent people as part of investigations into crimes as serious as drug dealing, the Irish Independent can reveal.
Some of the taps were left active on the phones of innocent third parties for weeks - and were cancelled only when officers flagged their concern about their legitimacy.

It was further reported that an election worker for a serving politician is alleged to have had his mobile phone tapped by garda? - and the bugging stopped only when a detective raised concerns it was serving "political purposes".
The detective who challenged the activity feared garda? were acting for the benefit of the influential minister with or without his knowledge. He was transferred out of the force's intelligence department within two weeks of flagging his fears the force was being used for "political purposes".
Now with the issue set to be raised in the D?il, Social Protection Minister Leo Varadkar described this newspaper's revelations as issues of "great concern".
He said he expected T?naiste and Justice Minister Frances Fitzgerald to brief Cabinet on the matter, but added the matters date to before Fine Gael was in office.Circling the wagons already

Bolding and colour are mine. There is a lot more in the article but copywrite laws prohibit me from pasting any more.

The Garda is and has been used by politicians since the state began.
The only way to stop that is to permanently separate them. Politicians promote their own men to run the force and to do so the way the politicians want.

Civilian Boards should be running the force and also promoting senior Gards members on ability rather than who their families voted for and supported.

RustyNut

tomwaterford wrote: »

But I don't think the political will is there for whatever reason from any of parties to tackle the gaurds over this

Dodgy phone taps and god knows what other nefarious surveillance on politicians, their staff and families could very well have an effect on politicians willingness to grasp the garda corruption nettle.

tayto lover

RustyNut wrote: »

Dodgy phone taps and god knows what other nefarious surveillance on politicians, their staff and families could very well have an effect on politicians willingness to grasp the garda corruption nettle.

Particularly if they were pulling the strings themselves.

hatrickpatrick

In light of recent revelations, is there anybody who still believes that there was absolutely no credence behind the allegations of covert surveillance on GSOC under Martin Callinan's tenure - and the subsequent claims, backed up by the Cooke report, that the security experts from the UK who came here to investigate those allegations, were themselves subject to harassment and suspicious activity during their visit to Ireland?

Hector Bellend

will we ever be able to beat the story that we have to tell people that they are drunk in irish before they can be prosecuted from driving while pissed off their knockers.

Are Am Eye

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

In light of recent revelations, is there anybody who still believes that there was absolutely no credence behind the allegations of covert surveillance on GSOC under Martin Callinan's tenure - and the subsequent claims, backed up by the Cooke report, that the security experts from the UK who came here to investigate those allegations, were themselves subject to harassment and suspicious activity during their visit to Ireland?

It's only a few bread crumbs that have come out. A few blips where things became public. The bulk of the iceberg is intact and hidden.

Do people think that the only phone tapping, internet monitoring, surveillance and monitoring is the sum of what's in the media. Where you have an agency with no constraints, no safeguards, completely immune from censure or accountability and they have the power to pry on anyone, intimidate anyone or conduct nefarious counter measures against any 'problem' then they will inevitably, if they weren't there in the first place, go way off the reservation. Where clearly any AGS member not directly involved will keep schtum. Omerta. The expression 'circling the wagons' is now ubiquitous in every discourse concerning them. Two separate Tribunals, Morris and Smithwick, identified their intrinsically corrupt culture.

Not that she's going anywhere anyway, but people need to understand that the removal of N O Sullivan in and of itself is pointless. One of her corrupt clique will step into position. They won't miss a beat. A sterile group/individual must be brought in from the outside with authority above this failed, unscrupulous and compromised management structure. Then, and only then can the slow process of guiding our police force back into the compass of honor, integrity and honesty.

RustyNut

What are the rules in relation to AGS recording someone's phone?

Can the Guard's tap someone's phone on the word of a member of AGS or do they need to show a reason for the tap and apply to a judge for a warrant?

What about breaking into someone's home to plant a microphone or camera?

What independent over site is there to protect the public from abuse of the system?


Or do AGS just tap or bug who they like and look for approval retrospectively?

Muahahaha

RustyNut wrote: »

What are the rules in relation to AGS recording someone's phone?

Can the Guard's tap someone's phone on the word of a member of AGS or do they need to show a reason for the tap and apply to a judge for a warrant?

What about breaking into someone's home to plant a microphone or camera?

What independent over site is there to protect the public from abuse of the system?


Or do AGS just tap or bug who they like and look for approval retrospectively?

They have to get a warrant from Judge ONeill. But that hasnt stopped them telling the judge a pack of lies in order to do so.
https://www.digitalrights.ie/garda-who-abused-phone-records-to-spy-on-ex-will-not-be-prosecuted-will-keep-job/


So there you go. Gardai can break the law to tap the phones of pretty much anyone they want and when they get caught they dont get demoted, fired or prosecuted. Just shifted side ways into another position of trust.

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

They have to get a warrant from Judge ONeill. But that hasnt stopped them telling the judge a pack of lies in order to do so.
https://www.digitalrights.ie/garda-who-abused-phone-records-to-spy-on-ex-will-not-be-prosecuted-will-keep-job/


So there you go. Gardai can break the law to tap the phones of pretty much anyone they want and when they get caught they dont get demoted, fired or prosecuted. Just shifted side ways into another position of trust.

I'll point out AGAIN, this d/sergeant has been suspended for years.
So go on pushing lies, but obviously Garda management has dealt with members breaking the law.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

nice_guy80

bubblypop wrote: »

I'll point out AGAIN, this d/sergeant has been suspended for years.
So go on pushing lies, but obviously Garda management has dealt with members breaking the law.

suspended on full pay?

nice_guy80

nice_guy80 wrote: »

suspended on full pay?

I have no idea.
But innocent until proven guilty, right?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Ken.

Muahahaha wrote: »

They have to get a warrant from Judge ONeill. But that hasnt stopped them telling the judge a pack of lies in order to do so.
https://www.digitalrights.ie/garda-who-abused-phone-records-to-spy-on-ex-will-not-be-prosecuted-will-keep-job/


So there you go. Gardai can break the law to tap the phones of pretty much anyone they want and when they get caught they dont get demoted, fired or prosecuted. Just shifted side ways into another position of trust.

Sorry Muahahaha, Due to Ireland's copyright laws you cannot quote an entire article like that. You can post some of it. Again sorry to butcher your post like that.

Muahahaha

bubblypop wrote: »

I'll point out AGAIN, this d/sergeant has been suspended for years.

nah, more spin from you bubblypop as usual. John Mooney in the Sunday Times reported that in 2011 having being caught phone tapping her ex boyfriend she was not demoted, sacked nor prosecuted.

Instead she was moved sideways to the Special Branch. Despite her already proving herself to be a dishonest Garda she was placed in yet another position of trust. Then in 2013 she did this
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/garda-spy-agent-faces-quiz-on-abusive-emails-b79hwprcvtg

November 24 2013
A FEMALE garda who used the state’s spying apparatus to access a former boyfriend’s phone records is now the focus of a criminal investigation into the alleged intimidation of an official at the director of public prosecution’s (DPP) office.

Eve Doherty, a former intelligence officer with Crime and Security, the garda’s secret spying agency, was questioned last month by detectives in connection with abusive emails sent from internet cafes in Dublin. The sender wore disguises, including wigs and glasses, to conceal their identity and used an array of locations and email addresses to send the correspondence.

So go on pushing lies, but obviously Garda management has dealt with members breaking the law.

So youll be able to show us links to how Garda management prosecuted her for illegally tapping the phone of a citizen?

Nah I didnt think so. As usual one law for the Gardai, another for everyone else. What a rotten and corrupt organisation it is. Always amazes me that people will even try to defend it after all these scandals. Then again some posters on here have skin in the game, as it were.

diomed

I'm shocked. The usual thing is to be moved sideways, then promoted.

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

nah, more spin from you bubblypop as usual. John Mooney in the Sunday Times reported that in 2011 having being caught phone tapping her ex boyfriend she was not demoted, sacked nor prosecuted.

Instead she was moved sideways to the Special Branch. Despite her already proving herself to be a dishonest Garda she was placed in yet another position of trust. Then in 2013 she did this
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/garda-spy-agent-faces-quiz-on-abusive-emails-b79hwprcvtg




So youll be able to show us links to how Garda management prosecuted her for illegally tapping the phone of a citizen?

Nah I didnt think so. As usual one law for the Gardai, another for everyone else. What a rotten and corrupt organisation it is. Always amazes me that people will even try to defend it after all these scandals. Then again some posters on here have skin in the game, as it were.

The person in question is currently suspended from duty, for the last I don't know how many years.
There is an ongoing Investigation into this so obviously no-one can comment. But maybe people could give Gardai the same respect that they give civilians when it comes to criminal investigations?
Allow due justice to do its job, & allow Gardai the same innocent until proven guilty as the general public.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Cee-Jay-Cee

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Just talking to my Grandmother who is 87 years old about the Gardai and she said to me there like the Organization of the Nazi party in 1933 Hitlers Youth that is my Grandmother opinion.

Did your grandmother grow up in Nazi Germany???

Are Am Eye

bubblypop wrote: »

I'll point out AGAIN, this d/sergeant has been suspended for years.
So go on pushing lies, but obviously Garda management has dealt with members breaking the law.

You completely miss the point.

Members in this section could bug anyone's telephone line.

With Impunity.

No checks. No balances.

On this one occasion the culprit effectively told the victim what she was doing. That is the single only reason it came to light.
Nothing to do with the guards.
She is not suspended because of the guards.
They would happily let her bug everyone's phone in the country.
Only she told the victim what she was doing. That is the only reason it was caught out.

Can you imagine the scale of illegal taps that goes on in there all the time.
Because outside of this jilted / love sick girl situation in everyday circumstances AGS members are not going to phone up politicians, whistleblowers, alleged criminals or any perceived opponents of AGS and tell them that they are bugging their phones. If they don't tell them they won't know. There is no internal oversight. There is a complete black hole in ethics. It was an abberation for a member to carelessly reveal the tap to the mark. This wouldn't happen in all other illegal taps.

And since there is manifestly no checks or balances, no ethical standards and no institutional integrity then one can logically conclude that they can and will act with complete impunity and phone lines are tapped on a large scale.

Curly Judge

bubblypop wrote: »

The person in question is currently suspended from duty, for the last I don't know how many years.
There is an ongoing Investigation into this so obviously no-one can comment. But maybe people could give Gardai the same respect that they give civilians when it comes to criminal investigations?
Allow due justice to do its job, & allow Gardai the same innocent until proven guilty as the general public.

This has been going on since 2013, and before.
Either it is the most complex investigation in the history of malfeasance or we have the slowest cops in the known universe?
How much more time do you want to give them?

Curly Judge

Curly Judge wrote: »

This has been going on since 2013, and before.
Either it is the most complex investigation in the history of malfeasance or we have the slowest cops in the known universe?
How much more time do you want to give them?

Exactly.
How do you think the gardai that have been suspended, their careers stopped, possibly forever, not knowing what is happening to themselves feel?
These Investigations seem to go on way longer than criminal investigations, so why the hold up?
Do Gardai not deserve the same legal & justice system as the rest of the public?

Beyondgone

nice_guy80 wrote: »

suspended on full pay?

Must be a bummer. Get paid but don't go in. Harsh.

Wish someone would suspend me on full pay. I'd suffer it -it'd be tough, but I'm a trouper.

Curly Judge

bubblypop wrote: »

Exactly.
How do you think the gardai that have been suspended, their careers stopped, possibly forever, not knowing what is happening to themselves feel?
These Investigations seem to go on way longer than criminal investigations, so why the hold up?
Do Gardai not deserve the same legal & justice system as the rest of the public?

I'll bet a pound to a pinch of goatshyte that it's the plaintiff and her union who are holding up proceedings.
Whats not to like about being suspended on full pay....especially when you know the alternative is the dole.

Curly Judge

Curly Judge wrote: »

I'll bet a pound to a pinch of goatshyte that it's the plaintiff and her union who are holding up proceedings.
Whats not to like about being suspended on full pay....especially when you know the alternative is the dole.

How would you feel if you were accused of something, & the investigation means that you are suspended from your job, with no way to clear your name until an investigation is complete?
Put that with an investigation that seems to take years & years, with everyone around you presuming you are guilty of something.
That's hardly fair. It's not fair for ordinary folk, why would it be fair for Gardai?
If anything, they are under more scrutiny, & they are assumed by the public to be guilty, surely they deserve timely Investigations?

Are Am Eye

bubblypop wrote: »

How would you feel if you were accused of something, & the investigation means that you are suspended from your job, with no way to clear your name until an investigation is complete?
Put that with an investigation that seems to take years & years, with everyone around you presuming you are guilty of something.
That's hardly fair. It's not fair for ordinary folk, why would it be fair for Gardai?
If anything, they are under more scrutiny, & they are assumed by the public to be guilty, surely they deserve timely Investigations?

Are you talking about the Garda Disciplinary investigation?