It goes from bad to worse for the Gardai

Ken.

nhunter100 wrote: »

RTE carrying a report that a 'profile' was created on whistle blower Keith Harrison. A profile is usually created on a criminal or gangland figure according to the report on RTE. Sorry I can't link it but , really speaks volumes when the Garda view a whistle blower in the same context as a criminal.

Here it is, I've quoted some of the relevant stuff, not all.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/0514/875047-garda-whistleblowers/

Gardaí created what was described as a "profile" report into a prominent whistleblower, Garda Keith Harrison, shortly after he complained about alleged mismanagement in the force, according to new documents seen by RTÉ's This Week.

Trevor Collins of Galway firm Kilfeather and Co, solicitor for Garda Harrison, said it was "unheard of" that a serving garda would be subject to profiling.

He said they intended to raise the issue directly with Mr Justice Peter Charleton, who was appointed to look into the claims that senior management were aware of orchestrated campaigns against whistleblowers in the force.

Garda Commissioner Nóirín O'Sullivan has said she was unaware of any targetting of garda whistleblowers.

According to a heavily redacted email, also seen by RTÉ's This Week, the profile document was circulated via email on 1 September 2014 via a series of garda, up to and including one at the rank of chief superintendent.

However, the names and duties of the gardaí who sent and received the email were all redacted.

The only unredacted line of the email states: "I refer to meeting on 18 August ... I now attach profile concerning Garda Keith Harrison".

The email also shows that the attachment is described as 'keith harrison profile.doc'.

jmayo

Erik Shin wrote: »

Any organisation that doesn't have outside monitoring is always open to corruption....but I don't believe anyone is accusing the Gardai of systemic child abuse, torturing of young mothers and kissing their rings

Nah no one is saying the Garda carry out child abuse.
It appears they just drop hints that some of their non cooperating members do.

shar01 wrote: »

Wow! Did not know that many guards posted on Boards. A double derail - the Church and whataboutery about who caused the crash.

<slow handclap>

Well done.

Can we move this thread to Politics Cafe where the discussion can be properly policed ?

robbiezero wrote: »

GarIT wrote: »

There are only tWo types of people in the RCC, those who commit abuse and those who have covered it up. Not a single good person has ever been catholic

Not a fan of the Catholic Church by any means, but if you had said that on this site about Muslims or Islam you would think it was your birthday with all the cards you would be getting.

Very true.
If someone says something not even half as bad re muslims, the usual suspects are reporting them and claiming they are painting all musllims with the same brush.
Yet here someone accused ALL catholics as bad and it raises barely a whimper.

Green Peter wrote: »

Law is continuously changing and updating and that is why CPD is so important and it's been non existent

Right from wrong hasn't really changed in millenia.
Do Gardai need to be told right from wrong ?
Of course you need a level of cop on as well not to post to your mates video footage of some poor devil having a mental breakdown.

The AGS needs to be disbanded as is and a new force ala PSNI created.
That of course means the government bring in overseas people to manage the new structures, to manage the new training and to manage the new force.
It also means spending a lot of money to overhaul the prehistoric technology and equipment in use.

Nah it is just easier to order a few reports, swap the commissioner and carry on as normal.
Oh and give the GRA and Sgt/Inspectors unions a few quid and shure everything is grand. :rolleyes:

jmayo

Barbie! wrote: »

Here it is, I've quoted some of the relevant stuff, not all.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/0514/875047-garda-whistleblowers/

Garda? created what was described as a "profile" report into a prominent whistleblower, Garda Keith Harrison, shortly after he complained about alleged mismanagement in the force, according to new documents seen by RT?'s This Week.

Trevor Collins of Galway firm Kilfeather and Co, solicitor for Garda Harrison, said it was "unheard of" that a serving garda would be subject to profiling.

He said they intended to raise the issue directly with Mr Justice Peter Charleton, who was appointed to look into the claims that senior management were aware of orchestrated campaigns against whistleblowers in the force.

Garda Commissioner N?ir?n O'Sullivan has said she was unaware of any targetting of garda whistleblowers.

According to a heavily redacted email, also seen by RT?'s This Week, the profile document was circulated via email on 1 September 2014 via a series of garda, up to and including one at the rank of chief superintendent.

However, the names and duties of the garda? who sent and received the email were all redacted.

The only unredacted line of the email states: "I refer to meeting on 18 August ... I now attach profile concerning Garda Keith Harrison".

The email also shows that the attachment is described as 'keith harrison profile.doc'.

Where is Paul Reynolds ?

Ken.

jmayo wrote: »

Where is Paul Reynolds ?

I'm afraid you've lost me J.

shar01

Was just listening to RTE1. Christ on a bike! Tax payers money being spent carrying out surveillance on "one of their own" because he dared to speak out.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not out to bash the guards. Like the majority of citizens in this country, my official dealings with them have been limited to passport forms, postal voting and being waved through tax & insurance checkpoints. I have defended some of their actions in other threads.

But the Dara Quigley case has troubled me. That the scuttering gobsh!te who recorded the feed saw nothing wrong with doing what they did.

More scandal is coming and I've a feeling it will be about shortcomings in some high profile unsolved murders. Then nothing will save Noreen.

shar01

jmayo wrote: »

Where is Paul Reynolds ?

You mean Garda Reynolds

steddyeddy

Why do they see nothing wrong with abuse of power? It's because there's no consequences.

please helpThank YOU

Ireland is very backwards let me explain why the Garda are carry on like there the army the way the march in large numbers in Templemore square. it is like a Scary Russian Army March in the red square in Moscow go on to you tube and compare both.

shar01

steddyeddy wrote: »

Why do they see nothing wrong with abuse of power? It's because there's no consequences.

And it's the low level stuff too - crates of drink being delivered to stations by local businesses at Christmas, a couple of cans of fanta with their chinese takeaway.

I worked in a newsagent and every Christmas the owner would send around a few bottles of spirits and a book of scratch cards.

shar01

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Ireland is very backwards let me explain why the Garda are carry on like there the army the way the march in large numbers in Templemore square. it is like a Scary Russian Army March in the red square in Moscow go on to you tube and compare both.

To be fair, all police forces parade like that.

Kivaro

jmayo wrote: »

Can we move this thread to Politics Cafe where the discussion can be properly policed ?

I like the pun there Mr. Mayo, but unfortunately it could end up being shut down by a mod there. (See Feedback or PC Charter discussion). It's the worse place this thread could go; unless of course you want it shut down.
There is nothing wrong on how it is being currently handled in AH.

koumi

shar01 wrote: »

Was just listening to RTE1. Christ on a bike! Tax payers money being spent carrying out surveillance on "one of their own" because he dared to speak out.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not out to bash the guards. Like the majority of citizens in this country, my official dealings with them have been limited to passport forms, postal voting and being waved through tax & insurance checkpoints. I have defended some of their actions in other threads.

But the Dara Quigley case has troubled me. That the scuttering gobsh!te who recorded the feed saw nothing wrong with doing what they did.

More scandal is coming and I've a feeling it will be about shortcomings in some high profile unsolved murders. Then nothing will save Noreen.

I just want to see these people behind bars, all of them. I've attempted on a couple of occasions to share my experiences and everytime I've had to stop, pause and recompose myself but all I want to do is talk about it.
I am glad things are starting to come out into the public light, I know there is a lot more which probably will come to the surface over the next couple of weeks/months. I think every attempt they have made to shut whistleblowers down is ironically going to lead to their undoing and that makes it all worthwhile.
I believe other scandals involve collusions with other state agencies to cover up crimes, and the failure of the authories to investigate and act in these instances.

Ken.

Kivaro wrote: »

I like the pun there Mr. Mayo, but unfortunately it could end up being shut down by a mod there. (See Feedback or PC Charter discussion). It's the worse place this thread could go; unless of course you want it shut down.
There is nothing wrong on how it is being currently handled in AH.

I choose to take that as a compliment. It's been a good debate so far. I don't see any reason to move it.

shar01

koumi wrote: »

I believe other scandals involve collusions with other state agencies to cover up crimes, and the failure of the authories to investigate and act in these instances.

The inquiry into the treatment of "Grace" will be one.

jmayo

Barbie! wrote: »

I'm afraid you've lost me J.

Ehh the RTE crime correspondent does a houdini when these stories blow up.
But never fear once a good news story breaks he will be right outside Phoenix park, Four courts, Templemore, etc, etc.

I think the US military might learn a thing or two about embedded reporting from AGS.

Kivaro wrote: »

I like the pun there Mr. Mayo, but unfortunately it could end up being shut down by a mod there. (See Feedback or PC Charter discussion). It's the worse place this thread could go; unless of course you want it shut down.
There is nothing wrong on how it is being currently handled in AH.

Ah come on now, surely you have noticed my opinion on any of these justice and Garda threads ?
The onyl reason for suggesting the move there was to see certain posters pefrom verbal gymnastics trying to muddy the waters and side track, nay as you said stifle debate.

But as with the thread on the child abuse files on whistle blowers, certain posters let their mask slip and just become a further embarrassment.

Barbie! wrote: »

I choose to take that as a compliment. It's been a good debate so far. I don't see any reason to move it.

Don't worry you are doing a fine job.
Are you sure you are a mod ?

Mokuba

Some infuriatingly stupid comments in this thread.

Most guards are decent people - struggling in a thankless job. The things that they are subjected to on a daily/weekly basis, most never have to experience in their entire lives. It is a tremendously difficult job.

God forbid they be looking forward to retirement, just like every other person would be. A small benefit for having to turn up at car wreckages with multiple people dead. Having to tell Mothers that their sons and daughters have passed. Having to be subjected to vile abuse from scumbags on a regular basis. Watching criminals walk free after weeks and weeks of work went into getting them into the court in the first place. Being forced to move away from home with, in most cases, no option of getting back into the same county except by quitting altogether.

God forbid they go on strike to see what was taken away from them restored - like they were promised. Not even looking for more, just a restoration. If it was you, you would do the exact same thing. The hypocrisy of some of these comments can be smelt an absolute mile away.

I feel bad for those people now - scandals are coming out, but there are bad apples in every walk of life. Most of these people are trying to make a living, and are doing the best they can.

I think that these threads allow those who have stupidly negative views of Gardaí to come out and claim the most ridiculous nonsense. Anecdotes which could be fabricated/word of mouth/an unfortunate case of bad timing etc.

Only now are there proper numbers being brought into AGS to actually make a difference, rather than seeing Gardaí get lost among 50 different things.

Obviously these scandals are completely unacceptable. I'm not looking to trivialise anything. Changes do need to take place. But a lot of it is coming from higher up the chain, or in the cases where it isn't - it's a small minority. There does need to be change, but I'm sure the majority of the Gardaí want that too.

steddyeddy

Barbie! wrote: »

Here it is, I've quoted some of the relevant stuff, not all.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/0514/875047-garda-whistleblowers/

Gardaí created what was described as a "profile" report into a prominent whistleblower, Garda Keith Harrison, shortly after he complained about alleged mismanagement in the force, according to new documents seen by RTÉ's This Week.

Trevor Collins of Galway firm Kilfeather and Co, solicitor for Garda Harrison, said it was "unheard of" that a serving garda would be subject to profiling.

He said they intended to raise the issue directly with Mr Justice Peter Charleton, who was appointed to look into the claims that senior management were aware of orchestrated campaigns against whistleblowers in the force.

Garda Commissioner Nóirín O'Sullivan has said she was unaware of any targetting of garda whistleblowers.

According to a heavily redacted email, also seen by RTÉ's This Week, the profile document was circulated via email on 1 September 2014 via a series of garda, up to and including one at the rank of chief superintendent.

However, the names and duties of the gardaí who sent and received the email were all redacted.

The only unredacted line of the email states: "I refer to meeting on 18 August ... I now attach profile concerning Garda Keith Harrison".

The email also shows that the attachment is described as 'keith harrison profile.doc'.

Sorry to offend anyone but the organisation seems to be run by mafia type low lives. There's no other way to read it.

Muahahaha

Mokuba wrote: »

Obviously these scandals are completely unacceptable. I'm not looking to trivialise anything. Changes do need to take place. But a lot of it is coming from higher up the chain, or in the cases where it isn't - it's a small minority. There does need to be change, but I'm sure the majority of the Gardaí want that too.

Ah the old "a few bad apples" excuse. It has really worn thin at this stage. I mean if there are only a few bad apples operating in the Gardai they must be extraordinarily busy bad apples to be wiping the penalty points off thousands of offences, conjuring up 1 million fake breath tests to claim overtime and wrongly prosecuting 15,000 motorists.

The Gardai suffer from systemic corruption. A fish rots from the head down and this one has truly rotted all the way through. Nothing short of a RUC style reform will work at this stage.

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

I mean if there are only a few bad apples operating in the Gardai they must be extraordinarily busy bad apples to be wiping the penalty points off thousands of offences, conjuring up 1 million fake breath tests to claim overtime.

If you are going to complain about Gardai then get the facts right at least. There are, in fairness, things you can complain about. The above is wrong though.
Gardai did not wipe penalty points from anyone. Superintendents cancelled fines on the spot & traffic tickets. Which, FYI, it is still the law that superintendents can cancel these things.
And there is no suggestion that anyone claimed overtime that they did not do.

Ken.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Ah the old "a few bad apples" excuse. It has really worn thin at this stage. I mean if there are only a few bad apples operating in the Gardai they must be extraordinarily busy bad apples to be wiping the penalty points off thousands of offences, conjuring up 1 million fake breath tests to claim overtime and wrongly prosecuting 15,000 motorists.

The Gardai suffer from systemic corruption. A fish rots from the head down and this one has truly rotted all the way through. Nothing short of a RUC style reform will work at this stage.

Yeah the million fake tests does lend support to the notion that there are way more than a few bad apples. As someone said earlier it works out about 77 per Garda for every garda in the country.

That's including Commissioner, Deputy Commissioners, Assistant Commissioners, Chief Superintendents, Superintendents, Inspectors and ,Sergeants.

When you take only front line Gardai it works out at over 96 per Garda.

Muahahaha

bubblypop wrote: »

If you are going to complain about Gardai then get the facts right at least. There are, in fairness, things you can complain about. The above is wrong though.
Gardai did not wipe penalty points from anyone. Superintendents cancelled fines on the spot & traffic tickets. Which, FYI, it is still the law that superintendents can cancel these things.
And there is no suggestion that anyone claimed overtime that they did not do.

Well then that whole penalty point scandal must have been a figment of our imagination Gardai cancelling penalty points were caught doing it for their families, friends and other people of influence, including a district court judge and a newspaper editor. All of this is long in the public domain.

And Im the one suggesting that they faked 1 million breath tests to rack up overtime they never worked. Unless you are claiming that they seriously faked 1 million breath tests out of the good of their heart and with no gain for themselves whatsoever? Really? From the same AGS that stole 100k of taxpayers money and moved it into the Boat Club in Templemore? Logic would dictate that they didnt fake 1 million breath tests for the craic, they did it for financial reward. Time will tell if Im right but Ive been following the Gardai scandals for three years now and if they are true to form I know I will be proven right in one of the many upcoming inquiries, tribunals & reports into this rotten and untrustworthy organisation.

_Kaiser_

bubblypop wrote: »

If you are going to complain about Gardai then get the facts right at least. There are, in fairness, things you can complain about. The above is wrong though.
Gardai did not wipe penalty points from anyone. Superintendents cancelled fines on the spot & traffic tickets. Which, FYI, it is still the law that superintendents can cancel these things.
And there is no suggestion that anyone claimed overtime that they did not do.

As I said above, the usual deflect and downplay effort.. remind us what you do again? :rolleyes:

No-one is buying it .. the reports are too widespread, numerous and far-reaching within the force for so long to maintain this fiction that it's "not as bad as is made out" or "a small minority" etc

AGS is frankly not fit for purpose - if indeed it ever has been. Leaving aside for a moment the more serious breaches of authority, trust and confidence that have been reported, day to day interactions with the Gardai will show you a force that is unresponsive, apathetic and very little interest in doing the actual job .. and yes I get that it's a tough often unrewarding job, but if you don't like it - quit! Find something else to do.

Yes there are indeed individual Gardai who take the job and the responsibilities it carries seriously, but these are few and far between. It's far more common that you'll encounter the sort described above and who both enable (and in some cases partake in) the rotten "culture" that typifies our police force.

Again, a full dismantling and rebuild RUC/PSNI style is the only thing that will resolve this at this stage - but there's no will to do it.. certainly not from the Gardai themselves, nor their Government paymasters. After all, if AGS will create "profiles" on colleagues just for taking their oath seriously, then who knows what "profiles" they have on those in politics.

jmayo

Mokuba wrote: »

Some infuriatingly stupid comments in this thread.

Most guards are decent people - struggling in a thankless job. The things that they are subjected to on a daily/weekly basis, most never have to experience in their entire lives. It is a tremendously difficult job.

God forbid they be looking forward to retirement, just like every other person would be. A small benefit for having to turn up at car wreckages with multiple people dead. Having to tell Mothers that their sons and daughters have passed. Having to be subjected to vile abuse from scumbags on a regular basis. Watching criminals walk free after weeks and weeks of work went into getting them into the court in the first place. Being forced to move away from home with, in most cases, no option of getting back into the same county except by quitting altogether.

God forbid they go on strike to see what was taken away from them restored - like they were promised. Not even looking for more, just a restoration. If it was you, you would do the exact same thing. The hypocrisy of some of these comments can be smelt an absolute mile away.

I feel bad for those people now - scandals are coming out, but there are bad apples in every walk of life. Most of these people are trying to make a living, and are doing the best they can.

I think that these threads allow those who have stupidly negative views of Garda? to come out and claim the most ridiculous nonsense. Anecdotes which could be fabricated/word of mouth/an unfortunate case of bad timing etc.

Only now are there proper numbers being brought into AGS to actually make a difference, rather than seeing Garda? get lost among 50 different things.

Obviously these scandals are completely unacceptable. I'm not looking to trivialise anything. Changes do need to take place. But a lot of it is coming from higher up the chain, or in the cases where it isn't - it's a small minority. There does need to be change, but I'm sure the majority of the Garda? want that too.

Ahh FFS.
You actually think it is ok for them to strike even though it is actually illegal for a Garda to induce anyone to strike, including themselves.
And yes we know the GRA and AGSI did a fudge claiming they never induced anyone to strike, that all the gardai decided to magically strike off their own bat.

No wonder some Gardai have loose regard for the law when they seem to think they are immune from it and play silly buggers.

I am tired of this shyte about a few bad apples and it is all the fault of management who are politically appointed.

Was it just management that appeared to spread rumours of whistle blowers being child abusers ?
Was it just management that basically ostracised them ?

Was it management that shoved up a video of the arrest of a very vulnerable mentally ill individual ?

And knowing the difference between right and wrong has nothing to do with how many colleagues you have.
It is a thing call ethics and common decency.

And also stop playing the sacred cows shyte as well.
Is every single Garda attending fatal road collisions and then going to victims homes to deliver the news ?
Is every Garda stationed in a rough area and subject to vile abuse and attacks ?
Yes some are, but some are nowhere near those situations.

Are Am Eye

If the cancelling of thousands of penalty points was all so innocent then
why did they need to go to lengths to smear Maurice McCabe?

McCabe revealed that points were being cancelled for family and friends of gardai. Of course as we know his file was accidentally altered to brandish him a pedophile. McCabe reported that he was subject to surveillance. We hear today that whistle blower Harrison is a target and there is profile file on him.

koumi

Mokuba wrote: »

Some infuriatingly stupid comments in this thread.

Most guards are decent people - struggling in a thankless job. The things that they are subjected to on a daily/weekly basis, most never have to experience in their entire lives. It is a tremendously difficult job.

God forbid they be looking forward to retirement, just like every other person would be. A small benefit for having to turn up at car wreckages with multiple people dead. Having to tell Mothers that their sons and daughters have passed. Having to be subjected to vile abuse from scumbags on a regular basis. Watching criminals walk free after weeks and weeks of work went into getting them into the court in the first place. Being forced to move away from home with, in most cases, no option of getting back into the same county except by quitting altogether.

God forbid they go on strike to see what was taken away from them restored - like they were promised. Not even looking for more, just a restoration. If it was you, you would do the exact same thing. The hypocrisy of some of these comments can be smelt an absolute mile away.

I feel bad for those people now - scandals are coming out, but there are bad apples in every walk of life. Most of these people are trying to make a living, and are doing the best they can.

I think that these threads allow those who have stupidly negative views of Gardaí to come out and claim the most ridiculous nonsense. Anecdotes which could be fabricated/word of mouth/an unfortunate case of bad timing etc.

Only now are there proper numbers being brought into AGS to actually make a difference, rather than seeing Gardaí get lost among 50 different things.

Obviously these scandals are completely unacceptable. I'm not looking to trivialise anything. Changes do need to take place. But a lot of it is coming from higher up the chain, or in the cases where it isn't - it's a small minority. There does need to be change, but I'm sure the majority of the Gardaí want that too.

I imagine it is difficult for a Gaurd to have to consider all this information when they feel they have dedicated their lives to a profession which they believe is a righteous one, one which saves lives, protects the innocent and makes the world a better place. It's an ideaology which many individuals aspire to in many areas of life, whether they are doctors or nurses, priests or teachers or politicians. They are professions that people knowingly enter for those reasons. It would be a mistake to think those same individuals should automatically be absolved of any wrong doing on the basis of their profession. A doctor would be hauled before a medical council if they didn't provide best practice. It should be no different to any other profession where there is the possibility of abuse of a position of power.
It is evident the gardaí, are an organisation in a position of almost absolute power, and who can and will readily abuse it for their own ends. As the old saying goes, power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Scandals breaking are a sign that the dam has burst and it needs to be amended.

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

Well then that whole penalty point scandal must have been a figment of our imagination Gardai cancelling penalty points were caught doing it for their families, friends and other people of influence, including a district court judge and a newspaper editor. All of this is long in the public domain.

And Im the one suggesting that they faked 1 million breath tests to rack up overtime they never worked. Unless you are claiming that they seriously faked 1 million breath tests out of the good of their heart and with no gain for themselves whatsoever? Really? From the same AGS that stole 100k of taxpayers money and moved it into the Boat Club in Templemore? Logic would dictate that they didnt fake 1 million breath tests for the craic, they did it for financial reward. Time will tell if Im right but Ive been following the Gardai scandals for three years now and if they are true to form I know I will be proven right in one of the many upcoming inquiries, tribunals & reports into this rotten and untrustworthy organisation.

Well the penalty point scandal, is where superintendents cancelled fines on the spot & tickets. Maurice mccabe brought to the public domain, that he believed superintendent were abusing their powers. Gardai did not wipe any points from anyone, so clearly you haven't been following the Garda scandals as closely as you thought.

'faking' one million breath tests, basically Gardai on checkpoint duty said they did more tests then they actually did.

I'm the first to say AGS needs dragging into the 21st century & the behavior of some of the members is embarrassing for most. But at least we can all be honest about these incidents. No need to make stuff up when there's already plenty there.

Mokuba

bubblypop wrote: »

Well the penalty point scandal, is where superintendents cancelled fines on the spot & tickets. Maurice mccabe brought to the public domain, that he believed superintendent were abusing their powers. Gardai did not wipe any points from anyone, so clearly you haven't been following the Garda scandals as closely as you thought.

'faking' one million breath tests, basically Gardai on checkpoint duty said they did more tests then they actually did.

I'm the first to say AGS needs dragging into the 21st century & the behavior of some of the members is embarrassing for most. But at least we can all be honest about these incidents. No need to make stuff up when there's already plenty there.

Because they were literally being sent to roads with no traffic and told to come back with certain numbers.

Little CuChulainn

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

As I said above, it's the rule of omerta



All sounds sadly familiar here.

You appear to have trouble deciding whether you want Gardaí to talk or not. In one post you cite regulations you believe should have members not talk and in the next post you moan about "omerta".

Barbie! wrote: »

Yeah the million fake tests does lend support to the notion that there are way more than a few bad apples. As someone said earlier it works out about 77 per Garda for every garda in the country.

That's including Commissioner, Deputy Commissioners, Assistant Commissioners, Chief Superintendents, Superintendents, Inspectors and ,Sergeants.

When you take only front line Gardai it works out at over 96 per Garda.

Is that not 96 over 6 years though. So 16 per year or one and a bit per month. So on average each frontline Garda overestimated, or exaggerated if you prefer, by one or two cars per month. Would that be right?

_Kaiser_

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You appear to have trouble deciding whether you want Gardaí to talk or not. In one post you cite regulations you believe should have members not talk and in the next post you moan about "omerta".

Well I wouldn't want you or your colleagues getting into trouble by posting stuff that you may not be allowed to. Certainly if I was participating in a thread about my employer I'd be bound by rules and/or may not be able to contribute at all.. I'd imagine for AGS members it's even more strict?

But anyway... care to comment on the substance of the complaints/points made rather than the same old deflection tactics?

Ken.

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Is that not 96 over 6 years though. So 16 per year or one and a bit per month. So on average each frontline Garda overestimated, or exaggerated if you prefer, by one or two cars per month. Would that be right?

I honestly thought it was a million a year. Now I've looked it up that does appear to be true. 1 million from October 11 to December 16.