BBC goes FTA: 10th July

johnnyq

nope!

Forgive me if this was already posted, but there was an article in the main part of yesterdays Guardian newspaper ( not the media section ) lauding next months events.
They also spoke of the BBC creating their own FTA EPG which would be common to Freeview and Digital satelite.
They reckoned that manufacturers would be keen to exploit this possibility and that soon we could be able to purchase FTA satelite receivers with this new BBC provided EPG.
( The article also quoted the ITC as predicting that ITV will more than likely follow the BBC down the FTA route on D-Sat )

And funnily enough, the article contained a comment from Sky along the lines of theres no need for them to do that, the EPG which Sky have developed is perfectly fine :rolleyes:
mm

ShaneOC

Originally posted by Man
And funnily enough, the article contained a comment from Sky along the lines of theres no need for them to do that, the EPG which Sky have developed is perfectly fine :rolleyes:
mm

This sounds as petty as the guy on Five Live after ITV Digital requested the return of the boxes. But they're ours...

watty

|I would think that until 10th July it is logical that only a England region FTV card or Sub will work with the new channels.

This http://www.dtg.org.uk/reference/dtt_world/dtt_ireland.htm is interesting.


It is possible with XML etc to have one SOURCE and automatic script to generate:
o Freeview EPG, freeview BBC interactive and interactive
o Sky EPG Guide, Sky BBC interactive Text and Interactive
Teletext pages.
o DVB compliant "now/Next" (used by almost everything"
o "Nextview" EPG guide (I suspect this is what my FTA PC Satellite card builds its EPG magasine from as it seems to be mainly German/Swiss/Austrian channels or operators that feed it. This works on Philips TVs too (an some others) and I bet on many FTA satellite receivers.


I'd suspect that is what the BBC are making. After all they'll want their stuff to work on all those Digiboxes which only Sky can load SW onto.

Once again the "Gridiron" shows itself to be less than 100% clued up technically. (Though they can spell and do grammer better than me).

There is something odd afoot with Freeview wich as yet doesn't have a 1 week EPG like Sky, just a "nextview" style EPG. Read:

http://www.dtg.org.uk/news/uknews/-epgs.htm

Mossy Monk

BBCi are explaining it on the front page

BHG

Continuity on BBC2 tonight announced
the EPG numbers have changed [june 18th]
115 BBC3
116 BBC4
"freeview & cable viewers are unaffected"

so this is an affect!. with the Astra 2A to 2D switch now the
confusing numbers have changed [for how will they stay in
one position]

they were 160 & 161
perhaps sky are about to alter the numbering elsewhere

i have 1000+ tv and 2000+ radio on 35 diff sats, all diff
systems, the only #'s that matter to me are local. and if I lose
the local # then I need FREQ/SR/FEC in the non sky world of
Spain France Itlay Cuba Mexico Germany etc. that I watch the
EPG is about programming info not EPG for numbering,

In the USA station channel9 etc got the names with numbers
because the TV sets were in the main un tuneable, Channel 1
was on Channel 1, that was that. In Ireland, growing up in the
70's with communal (communist) Ariel, and RTE on old
TVs fergunson Bush - 80's Normende Philips - 90's Sony etc,
we could choose what was on 1,2,3,4,5 etc, some old Fergusons
had Beeb 12 ITV printed on the plate beside the rotary knobs, but in the more republican homes rte1/rte2 we on button 1/2

more to do with the print on the ferguson and less to do with
my republican credentials I have always tuned BBC1, BBC2
& ITV as 1,2,3 and 4 was added in nov 1982 rte 1 net2 as 5/6 and so on the VCR follows the same to avoid personal confusion, but if TV broadcasters think we are so dumb that they have to broadcast DOGS so we ca ID the station, then we also need EPG #s to help us remember that we are not watching a rival service.

Come on, if the beeb lost 101 102 what harm would they suffer?
To echo a point from my last post, I see BBC may get silver or bronze Live soccer :-) if not gold.

Economic soccer point . Leeds sold Rio Ferdinand to ManU for
£30M TRANSFER MARKET CRASHED ManU sell
in contract David Beckham for £25M
2001 sky pay £1.1bn to FA 2003 they may get 2/3 of the games they used to have for the 2001 price OR even less. The ITV Digital failure, EU law and the open market will have more footy on free tv and less on PPV this is a good direction for TV viewers football fanatics and bad news for subscriber based services with dwindling growth rates.,


/rant ends. oiche mhaith codladh sámh

maisflocke

yeah, eh ok, but what exactly is your point ?!?

BHG

Oh I thought I could make a rant that was pointless or cryptic.

Point is exactly this: EPG is less important that this thread give credence
to, than the bbc v sky row made it out to be, when BBC is FTA
many millions of people will view it without 101 / 102

ok 5.8M have digi sky in homes but many more millions dont.
they will some day go digital but are less likely to go with
sky for this service now that BBC are FTA


is mise bhg/

byte

The only problem with FTA receivers is that interactive stuff like BBCi won't work with anything other than a Sky Digibox

Icehouse

From Sky digi Online :

Latest news - 1 July 2003

Announcement: As you may have noticed last night's "BBC regions channel numbers" story has been removed due to legal constraints. We are unable to publish the information provided at this particular time. We shall be revealing more information on this story in days to come, please bear with us. Apologies for any inconvenience caused.

Did anyone spot waht this was about??

johnnyq

Mediabullet got the scoop about the channel listings and were made take it off, but spandex from DS seems to have copied it :

It seems the story has been removed from the site, however Ive got thelist here....

EPG No. Channel Frequency Location
101 BBC One local
102 BBC Two local

941 BBC One Scotland 10803 Glasgow
942 BBC One Wales 10803 Cardiff
943 BBC One Northern Ireland 10773 Belfast
944 BBC One London 10773 London
945 BBC One North East & Cumbria 10818 Newcastle
946 BBC One Yorkshire & North Midlands 10788 Leeds
947 BBC One East Yorkshire & Lincolnshire 10788 Hull
948 BBC One North West 10788 Manchester
949 BBC One West Midlands 10788 Birmingham
950 BBC One East Midlands 10788 Nottingham
951 BBC One East 10788 Norwich
952 BBC One East 10847 Cambridge
953 BBC One South East 10818 Tunbridge Wells
954 BBC One South 10818 Southampton
955 BBC One South 10818 Oxford
956 BBC One West 10818 Bristol
957 BBC One South West 10818 Plymouth
958 BBC One Channel Islands 10847 Jersey
959 BBC Two London 10773 London
960 BBC Two Scotland 10803 Glasgow
961 BBC Two Wales 10803 Cardiff
962 BBC Two Northern Ireland 10803 Belfast

Hope that hlps.

spandex
xx


Very interesting I hope we will get them !

dmeehan

is there anything on the irish epg from 941 to 962?

Richard

Originally posted by Northern Correspondent
That is highly questionable as there has never been a Channel Islands Region of the BBC. The Channel Islands has always been part of the South-West BBC Region.

But the Channels Islands have a ten-minute opt during Spotlight at 6.30 and have a complete bulletin of their own during the Ten O'Clock News.

Given that the Islands are not part of the UK and have a seperate parliamentary and legal system, they do deserve their own region on DSat.

The Isle of Man is poorly served - its population is much lower, however.

Is it a wise idea to post the EPG info here given that they were removed elsewhere due to legal constraints?

Though maybe since this board is (presumably) based in Dublin it might not be a problem.

I wonder if they'll really use the 900s or whether they'll use the free space in the 100s. It might cost too much to use the 900s though.

lawhec

Sorry Richard - I realised my mistake before you posted your comment and deleted my comment - but it was too late!

Richard

Originally posted by Northern Correspondent
Sorry Richard - I realised my mistake before you posted your comment and deleted my comment - but it was too late!

I thought I was going mad because I couldn't find your post just now!

Icehouse

Decided to wake this thread up again as it's been a while :


Government latest on FTV cards

Thank you for your emails of 25 June and 4 July about digital satellite
broadcasting.

Firstly, as you may know, most of the digital satellite programmes intended
for reception in the UK are transmitted from the Astra 2A, 2B and 2D
satellites, although a few services make use of the Eurobird 1 satellite. In
May, the BBC services changed over from using Astra 2A to 2D. Astra 2A
covers the UK together with a large part of continental Europe. Whereas
Astra 2D has a tighter footprint covering, primarily the UK and Republic of
Ireland, with some spillover into France and Benelux.

BSkyB and the BBC announced on 13 June a five year agreement which includes
the continued allocation to BBC1 and to BBC2 channel numbers 101 and 102
respectively on BSkyB's Electronic Programme Guide (EPG). As part of that
agreement, the BBC is buying a regionalisation service from Sky to ensure
that viewers with a Sky viewing card within the UK will continue to
automatically receive the right national and regional versions of BBC1 and
BBC2. But this will also enable digital satellite viewers to receive any of
the BBC's national and regional services anywhere in the UK.

The BBC agreement will end payment by the BBC to BSkyB for the provision of
"Solus" viewing cards to digital satellite viewers who do not have a
subscription to a pay-TV service.

I appreciate your concern as to whether this means consumers will have to
subscribe to receive ITV, Channel 4 and Five in the future, As yet, no
changes have been made to ITV, Channel 4 or Five. ITV continues to be
transmitted form Astra 2D and Channel 4 and Five are on Astra 2A. These
channels use the Sky conditional access system, so a viewing card is
required. We are advised by the Independent Television Commission that their
present conditional access agreements with Sky has some time to run.
However, as things stand, BSkyB will not be sending new viewing cards to
"Solus" card viewers as part of the card swap-out programme - unless a
free-to-view broadcaster, other than the BBC, wishes to pay to provide
replacement cards. Once the existing cards are disabled, access to these
services will cease/ In the longer term it could be that the commercial
public service channels may consider alternative arrangements if they wish
to continue to provide free-to view access to their services by satellite.

There are provisions in the Communications Bill, presently before
Parliament, empowering OfCom to require/approve the provision of
arrangements to ensure reception of a 'must provide' satellite service (as
defined in the Bill and subject to modification by the Secretary of State.

Finally, I assure you that we will keep this situation under review and will
consider whether we need to commence those provisions in the Bill in order
to ensure a smooth transfer towards digital switchover.

Yours sincerely,

John Baldock
Broadcasting Policy Division
DCMS


Received 1700, 4th July 2003
posted on DigiSpy by Pooh

Icehouse

One more before I head home:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/dsat_card_index.shtml

Edit to add:
04/07/03 ITV to announce plans of Solus card change next week
Viewers' are confused over the Free To Air change next week, which will see BBC move to Astra 2D. With the BBC's decision in abandoning Free To View cards (Solus) many people are left wondering about what will happen to their terrestrial channels such as ITV, Channel Four and Five. Well, Channel Four's response was published here this morning. ITV have now contacted SDO to tell us that they will make an official announcement next week once the "mess" has cleared up. ITV are unsure themselves about what will happen and are awaiting for BBC's free service to go live before saying anything. However, they did tell us that their stance will be different to Channel Four's because unlike them they will try their utmost best in providing ITV1 and ITV2 to viewers without a Sky card on a Free To Air set top box. Keep it with SDO for the very latest.
News Feed: Raj Baddhan Source: ITV News Break: 16:14

Bon weekend!

Ballydung

Sounds promising ? next week should be quite interesting

Ballydung

oh its all kicking off now, just read some rumours on digital spy saying ITV, C5 & C4 will be free from autumn this year.

What next... RTE to follow.........arse

johnnyq

I am totally confused

so tell me if this is right:

BBC = FREE = 10 July
ITV = FREE = ?????
CH4 = $$$ = 10 July
CH5 = SAME AS USUAL


If channel 4 does become family pack at least it will be a price increase that SKY can't impose on us !

DMC

All explained here Johnnyq...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/dsat_card_index.shtml

Only to add, no apparent changes to Irish Sky subscribers.

carrolls

08/07/03 BBC removal of encryption "all day task"
The BBC have informed SDO about Thursday's switchover to Free to Air, which will allow viewers' free access to all BBC channels without the need of a Solus viewing card. The channels were shifted to Astra 2D during last month and all that remains now is the removal of encryption. The BBC channels will begin broadcasting unencrypted from 6am on Thursday. Also on Thursday the BBC will stop subsidising the Free To View viewing of ITV 1, Channel Four and Five. However, it is widely believed that ITV 1, Channel Four and Five will be available until the end of the month, Updated: 19:20

Que? Here we go again.
I think when they say "However, it is widely believed that ITV 1, Channel Four and Five will be available until the end of the month"
they mean only on the P1 cards. The P2 cards will continue to work for 3-5 years.

Icehouse

Simon and his buddies at Mediabullet are into sensationalism/'exclusives' and using confusing wording in their reports and generally give the mpression at times that they are reporting half-truths/whispers and things they've picked up elsewhere. The site can be useful sometimes, but it's always best to carry a bucket of salt with you and wait for confirmation on a more reliable site like digispy, with of course boards.ie for the Irish context!

I'd be amazed if Channel 4 or any of the non-BBC FTV channels go off the type 2-cards. The days are numbered for t-he type 1 cards unless ITV or someone pay Sky to keep them active. Even then, Sky will not do so if the reason for the type 1 switchoff is the Sky hack that was rumoured late last year.

JDxtra

Sky want to stop supporting all version 1 cards. Probably so they can add new features, or to improve security. The only way ITV can avoid going pay-only is to help fund the replacement of these cards. And they ain't going to do it on their own.

watty

The only confirmed "rumour" (Ha.. I mean its confirmed as a rumour but not fact).


Rumour:
Emulated videguard CAM for DVBprog.

What this does (allegedly):
Allows a real "type 1" card to do decode exactly what it decodes in a Digibox.

Not illegal and not a "card hack". Not a breaking of the encryption.

No confirmation from usual sources. (Usenet/NG and known "blackhat forums"). Not even a rumour from usual sources of an actual card hack of any kind.

Mind you Sky would be upset enough about you LEGALLY using your valid card to receive what you are meant to get on a non-Digibox. Unfortunately.

I'd Love :
(a)The rumour to be true (of a CAM).
(b) Love EU to force Murdock to allow non-videocrypt cam on Digibox or allow videoguard cam on non-digibox. Ideally both.

The present situation is anti-competitive and monopolistic.

An origin of some misinformation is a Newsgroup post some while ago regarding a Videoguard CAM for sale. In fact you *CAN* buy a videoguard CAM, but it does not fit any Satellite receiver anywhere. It is a "Pod" type CAM for North American Digital Cable TV decoder/Receivers. Cable videoguard is probabily a slightly different species to the Satellite flavour. The earlier Sky analog "videocrypt" also had a variant sold to cable operators, so no surprise there.

As responsible for IT security I'm on various security mailing lists and keep and eye out. There is actually more hype and hysteria than action. (e.g. last weekends "defacement" non-event).

jabarrett35

Hi will BBC NI Scotland and Wales in the EPG from tomorrow on my English EPG? I know the other BBC regions are not going to be available until the end of the month. Once the BBC go FTA how is it possible that these channels will be blocked from the Irish EPG.

Richard

Originally posted by jabarrett35
Hi will BBC NI Scotland and Wales in the EPG from tomorrow on my English EPG?

They should do - but don't forget you already have BBC TWO NI, Scotland and Wales in the EPG.

What I want to know is - will the BBC channels appear in the FTA EPG from tomorrow?

I no longer have a Sky subscription, so the card is upside down in the box!

And what time should we expect the channels to go FTA?

Midnight?

jabarrett35

I read some where that they were going Fta from 0600 tomorrow morning.

jabarrett35

Oh and by the way I think we are going to be worse of once the BBC goes FTA as the solus card is being discontinued. Also CH 4 and Five may become available only with a Sky subscription unless you have P2 card. So we here may be able to get all the BBC channels but may lose or be unable to get CH4 and five (and even ITV may go sub). I would have preferred it if they had kept things the way they were. I've never had the need to know what was happening in Wales or Scotland.

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by jabarrett35
I think we are going to be worse of once the BBC goes FTA as the solus card is being discontinued

i think the opposite but it is all down to what you have already. i have all the UK terrestrials anyaway through an aerial so i welcome the opportunity of seeing all the BBC regions