BBC goes FTA: 10th July

carrolls

It would be ironic if BBC ONE and TWO NI appeared on the ROI EPG in their current places, whilst viewers in Northern Ireland itself had to go to the 900s to find the channels.

I think this is going to happen, because I don't see how they can avoid it.
Well, they could move the BBC1 NI and BBC2 NI on an Irish card to the 900's to save face with the 'Norn Iron' community.:D
By the way, now that the BBC is free in Ireland (Soon), will BSkyB reduce the Irish subscription?

SRB

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It would be ironic if BBC ONE and TWO NI appeared on the ROI EPG in their current places, whilst viewers in Northern Ireland itself had to go to the 900s to find the channels.

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No more ironic than viewers in NI being able to watch RTE via analogue tele, yet being unable to watch it on sat.

Richard

Originally posted by carrolls

By the way, now that the BBC is free in Ireland (Soon), will BSkyB reduce the Irish subscription?

No, especially if they continue to pay the BBC something. I'm sure the BBC could threaten to move their channels off the ROI EPG altogether if Sky stop paying them. Sure, they'd still be in "Other Channels", but....

Richard

Originally posted by SRB

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It would be ironic if BBC ONE and TWO NI appeared on the ROI EPG in their current places, whilst viewers in Northern Ireland itself had to go to the 900s to find the channels.

---

No more ironic than viewers in NI being able to watch RTE via analogue tele, yet being unable to watch it on sat.

No - that is not ironic at all! It is unfortunate. The BBC situation would be ironic because you would expect viewers in the Republic not to get Northern Irish channels in a more prominant position that those in Northern Ireland!

johnnyq

In a way the BBC have hit a brick wall.Things don't seem to be going smoothly as they had hoped.Everyone will give out that their regional channel will be inaccessable (900's).Is it possible that the BBC REGIONS THEMSELVES could bring the FTA plan down ?

watty

For the regional variations that people actually want, they don't need the 900s (Where regional BBCs already are), but it will be accessible via BBCi on Digiboxes. Or by TV then 1 or 2 for most people.

On NOT-Digiboxes you get to chouse your own channel numbers anyway...

carrolls

In a way, the BBC's in the 900's are in a more convenient location than those in the 200's.
Just press the UP button and you are there.

West Briton

I don't see how having the regions in the 900's or wherever should be a problem.

I don't use the TV Guide to navigate as I find it unwieldy. Remembering a different three digit code or changing two of your favourites isn't exactly brain surgery, though judging from some of the comments in another place it might as well be.

Richard

Originally posted by West Briton
I don't see how having the regions in the 900's or wherever should be a problem.

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but there is a notice on BBCi DSat (ROI) saying that BBC 1 and 2 London will be on 101 and 102. The notice doesn't mention the Republic, however.

johnnyq

Originally posted by Richard
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but there is a notice on BBCi DSat (ROI) saying that BBC 1 and 2 London will be on 101 and 102. The notice doesn't mention the Republic, however.

That probobly won't affect us here

Mossy Monk

it would be miraculous for BBC1 and BBC2 to take 101 and 102 on our EPG's

Leesider

Originally posted by Richard
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but there is a notice on BBCi DSat (ROI) saying that BBC 1 and 2 London will be on 101 and 102. The notice doesn't mention the Republic, however.

Where on BBCi does it say this?
I spent a while scanning through pages llast night, but couldn't find the article.

Richard

Originally posted by Leesider
Where on BBCi does it say this?
I spent a while scanning through pages llast night, but couldn't find the article.

I honestly can't remember, but I'll have a look tonight.

DMC

BREAKING NEWS

On MediaGuardian's front page...

4pm: The BBC has settled its ongoing row with BSkyB. It means BBC1 and BBC2's position at top of electonic TV listing on Sky systems is now secure. More follows.

DMC

Looks like Encryption is back!

:mad: :mad: :mad:

http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcast/story/0,7493,977149,00.html

BBC and BSkyB end satellite row

Owen Gibson
Friday June 13, 2003

After months of brinkmanship, the BBC and BSkyB have finally settled their protracted row over an £85m deal to guarantee distribution to their 7m subscribers.

They have agreed a new deal, believed to represent savings of tens of millions of pounds, which will ensure BBC1 and BBC2 will remain the first channels viewers see on the electronic TV listings that come up automatically when Sky viewers switch on.

In a second development, the BBC will continue to pay Sky to ensure that regional versions of BBC1 and BBC2 appear in Scotland, Wales and northern Ireland.

The complicated deal, which centres on encryption and conditional access services, is being seen in some quarters as a U-turn by the BBC's director general Greg Dyke who in March announced he was severing all links with Sky.

He made it plain he was determined to blaze a trail for all commercial broadcasters who he believed have been unnecessarily tethered to Sky's technology.

Television watchdogs were called in to adjudicate on the deal last month after negotiations between the two sides broke down and were due to rule on the row by mid July.

The two sides have been widely expected to come to an arrangement ever since BBC director general Greg Dyke sparked the row in March by suddenly declaring that the BBC was to switch its transmissions to a different satellite.

Although poles apart on the issue publicly, the two sides are thought to have been back in talks since they decided to team up to bid for the rights to the FA Cup.

The two broadcasters are thought to have mounted a joint £250m bid to retain the rights, effectively freezing out ITV and forcing the Football Association to take a significant hit on the £345m they paid for the existing deal.

BSkyB was also thought to be a concerned that a ruling in the BBC's favour would set a precedent allowing ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 to follow suit and abandon the Sky service, has finally agreed to a compromise deal.

Under the agreement, the corporation will retain the top two slots on the programme guide but has agreed to pay BSkyB to develop a system that will allow viewers to choose the correct regional version of the BBC's TV channels.

By broadcasting "in the clear" Mr Dyke claimed that the corporation would save £85m over five years because it would no longer have to pay "conditional access" fees.

But it has since admitted that it will have to spend £40m over that period to provide different versions of its regional channels by satellite, a large chunk of which will now be paid to BSkyB.

BSkyB, worried that other terrestrial broadcasters would follow suit, immediately hit back by threatening to consign the BBC to the digital wilderness and list BBC channels among the sex and shopping channels at the bottom of the programme guide through which subscribers choose what to watch.

The BBC agreed to delay the launch of its free to air satellite service until the independent television commission could rule on the issue but will now switch off its scrambled broadcasts at the end of the month.

It will mean that for the first time, viewers in Scotland will be able to watch BBC London and that anyone with a satellite dish and a receiver can watch the BBC's digital channels without a viewing card.

DMC

So to decepher the MediaGuardian stubble...

On the face of it, Conditional access may be back, but Sky are to implement a tool where you can choose what 101 and 102 you want to watch. At the end of this month, it is turning off "its scrambled broadcasts"

I'm still confused!

carrolls

but Sky are to implement a tool where you can choose what 101 and 102 you want to watch

It would defeat the pupose of this tool if the BBC were to remain encrypted after July 14th.
What the statement means probably is that the signals will not be encrypted, but if you have a card, the right regions will appear on 101/102.
But if there is no card in, this tool will allow you to manually set the region.
Media Guardian have a knack for taking a two line statement and writing an article based on it that can be interpreted in a number of opposite ways.
BTW: The original Media Guardian article posted today said the Beeb had abandoned plans to go FTA. They quickly changed it after a call to the BBC probably. Tossers.:rolleyes:

Mossy Monk

posts on digitalspy suggest that BBC will be FTA from July 10th which is better than July 14th

Greenman

You mean this

Greenman

And this.

byte

Wow! Interesting developments! Why do Media Guardian seem to blow things out of proportion though! It wouldn't be the first time. :rolleyes:

johnnyq

So does all this mean that the BBC will be encrypted but it won't be encrypted

johnnyq

Originally posted by DMC


Under the agreement, the corporation will retain the top two slots on the programme guide but has agreed to pay BSkyB to develop a system that will allow viewers to choose the correct regional version of the BBC's TV channels.

How is this a compromise??

spuddy

The BBC has confirmed that it has reached a five-year distribution agreement with BSkyB.

The news brings an end to wrangling between the two organisations that began in March, shortly after the BBC announced it would stop using Sky's conditional access system and broadcast in the clear, the BBC confirmed it will begin broadcasting unencrypted from July 10th.

Sky fought back against the BBC's decision, threatening to pull BBC One and BBC Two from the flagship EPG positions of 101 and 102 respectively. This prompted the BBC to file a complaint with the Independent Television Commission in April. The compromise agreement announced tonight has resulted in that complaint being withdrawn.

The substance of the new agreement is that BBC One and BBC Two will continue broadcasting on EPG positions 101 and 102. For viewers using a "Solus" card, BBC One London will broadcast on 101 and BBC Two England will broadcast on 102. Other regional variations will be accessible through the EPG. For viewers using a Sky card, the BBC has purchased a "regionalisation package" from Sky that will result in viewers receiving their local BBC One region and BBC Two nation at 101 and 102 respectively.

All 22 regional and national variations of the BBC's channels are expected to be on digital satellite by this autumn, the corporation has also confirmed.
.

But what I'd like to know is what about the people without "Solus" cards, will it be an 'other channels' job?

carrolls

Heres the actual BBC Press release.

BBC and BSkyB announce agreement on digital satellite distribution

BSkyB and the BBC today (Friday 13 June 2003) announced a five year agreement which includes the continued allocation to BBC ONE and BBC TWO of channel numbers 101 and 102 on BSkyB's Electronic Programme Guide (EPG).

Therefore the BBC will withdraw its complaint, made in April 2003, to the Independent Television Commission.

From 10 July, the BBC will broadcast all eight television channels in the clear.

By Autumn 2003, all 22 national and regional variations of BBC ONE and BBC TWO will be available and listed on the EPG.

As part of the agreement, the BBC is buying a regionalisation service from BSkyB to ensure that viewers within the UK with Sky viewing cards will continue to automatically receive the right national and regional versions of BBC ONE and BBC TWO at 101 and 102 respectively.

The agreement will end the payment by the BBC to BSkyB for the provision of "Solus" viewing cards to digital satellite viewers who do not have a subscription to a pay-TV service.

In future, viewers will continue to be able to view all unencrypted channels and will receive versions of BBC ONE London and BBC TWO England in the 101 and 102 positions.

They will also be able to manually select the rest of the BBC's national and regional variations listed on the EPG.

BHG

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2003/06_june/13/dsat_statement.shtml

The bbc have not compromised with sky, bbc came out in March
asking to pay for the dev of regional 101/102 splits, unlike the Irish 101/102 that is blanket to Irish boxes the Beeb wanted a sub menu choice like the 6 News bbci thing only better more
fixed in the EPG, so no back down for BBC.

The BBC compromise is that as of May30 bbc said they would have all regional versions on astra2D, they don't they won't have it by July10/14 it now says autumn 2003

when they say 8 channels they mean 7 as we FTA viewers are
already glued to BBC PARLIAMENT

These major delays by BBC and the May30 pass by makes me wonder if their BBC Five Live claim is true at all, will we get
R5L & its sister sport xtra?

I support the FTA move - but I think the BBC blinked or winked
in Skys direction too often of late. FA cup Freeview Partner, BskyB
or BBcryB - Dyke goes the USA and slags off NewSinTernational while dealing with them at home, while the BBC war effort was
not text book impartiality.

-
bfn bhg
reality bites - RTEs Cabin Fever sikins off west coast of Ireland

TVDX

Ok, you see the way they say that this will end their payment to BSkyB for the provision of "Solus" cards, what will this mean?.

Will the cards be shut off after that date?.
Or will there at least be a bit of downtime where they(ITV, C4, and C5) decide what to do?.

Is it possible it will just mean they wont issue anymore?,
and that the remaining ones will be active?.

I just want C4 till the end of BB!.
But, i am on standby to order a UK sub, so i wont worry about that.

channelsurfer

so to cut a long story short would i be right in saying anyone in ireland who takes out their sky card or dosent subs to sky will access bbc 1& 2 as of july 10th on 101 ana 102 complety free by rebooting their digbox

byte

I would think that existing Solus cards will remain active indefinitely. And that the card will continue to show the relevant BBC region at 101 and 102

As part of the agreement, the BBC is buying a regionalisation service from BSkyB to ensure that viewers within the UK with Sky viewing cards will continue to automatically receive the right national and regional versions of BBC ONE and BBC TWO at 101 and 102 respectively.

channelsurfer, I would assume so, though with the current software, once you remove your ROI card, RTEs etc, will still remain at 101, etc on the EPG. Though I suppose it would work if ya reboot with your viewing card inserted upside down.

Originally posted by channelsurfer
so to cut a long story short would i be right in saying anyone in ireland who takes out their sky card or dosent subs to sky will access bbc 1& 2 as of july 10th on 101 ana 102 complety free by rebooting their digbox

Probably not, but possibly yes:D
I'd expect the current fta EPG to remain the same and the new EPG situation to apply to EPG's loaded by UK cards only.
Because the services will be un encrypted, that should mean that they are available on other channels, even if you have an Irish card in your box, unless the new regionalisation software update included a 08 message for paddies.
That would be silly though when all paddy would have to do would be take out the card, re-boot and tune them in as other channels without his card.


On the subject of "solus" cards: Don't expect them to be switched off either, as it would mean ITV only being available on the most popular digital system with a Sky subscription.
The ITC wouldn't like that, and neither would ITV.
It wouldn't suit Sky either as, it might encourage some more people to opt for freeview ( even though Sky have a leg in there, they would rather for obvious reasons, people in the were buying digiboxes instead ) where available.
mm