BBC goes FTA: 10th July

johnnyq

On an interesting note a website called ANANOVA say that
"BSkyB has also agreed a five-year deal with Five which renews its existing access arrangements."
I am confused about what this means?
Does it mean that FIVE will not be FTA for 5 years or the opposite?

watty

My interpretation of news:

EPG system for now for those having a card won't change. The ITV / SC4~digidol etc regionalisation will apply. No word of Sky doing a region menu.

Without a card 101/102 is BBC1 and BBC 2 London. This will appliy to an ROI box rebooted with upside down card. Other regions will be in 900s, as BBC2 regions are now on UK cards.

ROI cards will be unchanged. Extra BBC will only be by "other channels" as BBC Parliament and BBC Radio is today.

BBC will work with no card or even with a non-digibox Digital receiver from 10th July.

BBC to spend money adding England regions which have never been full time on Satellite.


Five is continuing present deal for 5 years. To me this means cancelled Sub cards, old FTV/Solus cards will still work for Five, ITV and C4. It might mean you will still be able to get a FTV card (only needed for ITV, C4 and Five) as Five does pay a small proportion of FTV centre costs..

BBC also will have a BBCi menu to select region for non-card Digibox users and perhaps for those with a London subscription to watch BBC1 Scotland without going to 900s.

EPG numbering irrelevent to non-digiboxes and PC satellite cards and FTA PVRs all of which will work with BBC from 10th July.


The ROI card will be unchanged. You will have to either use "other channels" or repower digibox with upside down card (no ITV/C4 or Five) or get a Cancelled UK sub card or UK FTV/Solus card if you want ITV/C4/Five.

Expect ITV to go FTA next year but obviously "Five" which are part Sky owned have signed for anothe r 5 years, Since Ch4 uses Sky encription for E4 and Film 4 they unlikely to give it up soon either.

RTE unlikely to be FTA before 2008 or even later.

Originally posted by johnnyq
On an interesting note a website called ANANOVA say that
"BSkyB has also agreed a five-year deal with Five which renews its existing access arrangements."
I am confused about what this means?
Does it mean that FIVE will not be FTA for 5 years or the opposite?

It's existing arrangements mean that.
08 if you tune it in on an Irish card or without one.
mm

Zaphod

From the Tele-satellite newsletter:

BBC CHANNELS FREE-TO-AIR FROM JULY 10
From 10 July, the BBC will broadcast all eight of its digital television
channels in the clear on the Astra satellite. By autumn 2003, all 22
national and regional variations of BBC ONE and BBC TWO will be available.
As part of a new agreement with BSkyB, there will no longer be any need for
digital satellite viewers to have a viewing card in order to watch BBC
services. That means satellite viewers within the Astra 2D footprint (which
includes the Benelux countries) will for the first time be able to view all
the BBC channels unencrypted without the need for a Sky digibox. But it's
bad news for British expatriates living further away in Europe. Because the
footprint of the BBC transmissions is much tighter than that used for the
Sky package, they'll need a much larger dish to receive a decent signal.
This arrangement was originally meant to start on 31 May, but was delayed
by an argument over the positions of BBC1 and BBC2 on the Electronic
Programme Guide. Sky had threatened to move them off their 101 and 102
positions. Under the agreement, the corporation will retain the top two
slots on the programme guide but has agreed to pay BSkyB to develop a
system that will allow viewers to choose the correct regional version of
the BBC's TV channels.

Sin e an Fear

From the Tele-satellite newsletter:

Where's the URL?

Sin e an Fear

From the Tele-satellite newsletter:

Where's the URL?

Here?

philengland

yes - www.tele-satellite.com and also www.digitalnewsfeed.co.uk

Zaphod

That's the one.

Satkurier provide a similar service at:
www.satkurier.com

carrolls

Quote from Digital Spy

Radio 1's Newsbeat have just announced that BBC Three and BBC Four are to change on the $ky EPG. The new channel numbers will take affect on Wednesday (18th June). The new numbers are 115 (BBC Three) and 116 (BBC Four). Freeview and Cable customers are not affected.

I wonder does this mean the big encryption switch off will take place on the 18th too?

Richard

Originally posted by carrolls

I wonder does this mean the big encryption switch off will take place on the 18th too?

I doubt it. It could clear 160/161/162 for alternative BBC regions, though since 101 and 102 will now hold the correct regions for most viewers, there may not be any point.

The thing to watch out for, though is - will they appear at 115/116 on ROI cards?

watty

NO. The existing BBC4/BBC3/Cbeebies/Cbbc are not on ROI card.

While Beeb doesn't especially mind us watching they won't pay Sky a brass farthing more than they half to. Placement on ROI EPG as well as UK EPG is extra.

But I'll check on my PC for FTA regular. I'd expect some channel maybe the night before the 10th to go FTA, maybe News24? (A Guess).

See my poll in the Cable forum "Is Chorus /NTL Doomed?"

watty

Originally posted by channelsurfer:
so to cut a long story short would i be right in saying anyone in ireland who takes out their sky card or dosent subs to sky will access bbc 1& 2 as of july 10th on 101 ana 102 complety free by rebooting their digbox

It looks very like that whatever you do the extra Beeb will *ONLY* be on "other channels" unless you have a UK card. Though ironically even a cancelled one (i.e. replaced and no good for ITV) will do the UK EPG.

It looks like the the "no card" or "faulty card" EPG is missing main FTA channels. BBC Radio, BBC Parliament and S4C~Digidol missing.

The FTA channels DO work on a "UK" box with a totally dead ROI card, which brings up the ROI EPG!!! The reverse will be true..

Suggestion/guesswork... based on above
Sky hasn't asked for the old cards back of recent upgrades. These cards ARE blocked, they don't work for any pay or FTV channel. But they will bring up a UK or ROI EPG after power on, and the FTA channels will work .. including BBC after 10th July!

Richard

Originally posted by watty
NO. The existing BBC4/BBC3/Cbeebies/Cbbc are not on ROI card.

While Beeb doesn't especially mind us watching they won't pay Sky a brass farthing more than they half to. Placement on ROI EPG as well as UK EPG is extra.

If this is the case (not that I have any reason to doubt you), why are channels such as S4C2 (which surely has very little interest to most viewers here) on the ROI EPG?

Also, don't forget that when CBBC/Cbeebies launched, they appeared on the ROI EPG initally. They weren't, of course watchable, but they were there all the same.

Of course, the reason why BBC Radio isn't on the ROI EPG is that part of the deal they struck when they launched the FTA Radio was that if they kept it off the ROI EPG it would cost them less (as they were harder to listen to). The same may well apply to TV.

ShaneOC

BBC Worldwide (the commercial arm of the BBC) were responsible for the deal that allowed BBC1NI and the BBC2NI to appear on Sky for Irish viewers. How much extra could it cost for the channels to be added to the EPG here. I can't see all the small little channels FTN, CNX, etc paying out extra to appear on the Irish EPG. It is really a case of dual standards.

Adding all of the BBC channels to the Irish EPG would be beneficial to everyone. Sky could use it as a marketting gimmick, the BBC could make a few bob and we would be happy customers.

watty

Originally posted by Richard
Of course, the reason why BBC Radio isn't on the ROI EPG is that part of the deal they struck when they launched the FTA Radio was that if they kept it off the ROI EPG it would cost them less (as they were harder to listen to). The same may well apply to TV.

This is what I have suggested. Though I suspect Sky Machinations also.

S4C always intended to be FTA. It took a few years to sort out rights issues. I think they want to widely available, even in Ireland. I rang S4C to get "turned on" and they did try to get me "turned on" on an ROI card! This was when even UK cards did not automatically have S4C~digidol. (Naturally they couldn't turn on and ROI card then).

I'm puzzelled and suspect Sky of being obtuse by fact that not only are BBC Radio and parliament missing form FTA EPG but S4C~digidol is too.

Leesider

The new channel numbers 115/116 are now active on a UK card, but as expected, are not on ROI EPG.

carrolls

I can't see all the small little channels FTN, CNX, etc paying out extra to appear on the Irish EPG.

These channels are part of the Irish family Pack. Better examples would be Performance and CNN.

carrolls

from ireland.com Tues 17th July 2003

RTÉ has expressed serious concern about an announcement by the BBC that from July 10th it will broadcast its eight TV channels unencrypted to anyone with a satellite dish and a decoder in Britain and Ireland.

Irish viewers will for the first time be able to receive eight BBC channels, plus up to 90 others, free once they have a satellite dish and a decoder for a once-off cost of about €500. The BBC named the date for the new development on Friday.

An RTÉ spokeswoman said the announcement had major implications for RTÉ. The station is concerned a significant number of people will ditch their cable or satellite contracts and pay the one-off cost for the eight BBC services and other channels, among them CNN and QVC.

These viewers will still be able to access Irish channels like RTÉ via old-fashioned aerials or "rabbit ears" free. While this should help the Irish channels maintain their viewing figures, Irish stations are worried people will fall out of the habit of switching between their satellite service and an aerial.

Viewers who choose the satellite option would only have to pay once, whereas RTÉ channels on digital are currently available on Sky, a subscription-based service.

This deal with Sky continues for another four years and some sources in RTÉ are concerned about being tied to this arrangement when a relatively cheap alternative will be available for viewers who purchase their own satellite dish.

The Astra 2D satellite covers Ireland and Britain and that is why viewers in Ireland can pick up the BBC channels via a satellite dish. Until now, such channels were encrypted or scrambled in the Republic, but now they will be "in the clear" or unscrambled.

Meanwhile, the Minister for Communications, Mr Ahern, in a Daíl reply has promised to meet television companies on the issue and discuss what action, if any, should be taken.

In reply to a question from Labour's Mr Tommy Broughan, Mr John Browne, answering on behalf of the Minister, said: "The BBC's decision, especially if other UK terrestrial broadcasters follow suit, has implications for Irish television audiences, Irish broadcasters and for those who sell television services in the Irish market."

"The Minister has had discussions with representatives of the industry in Ireland on its implications. He will shortly meet representatives of both the broadcasters and platform operators to give them a further opportunity to outline their concerns and to listen to their views on what action, if any, should be taken," he added.

On Friday, after months of squabbling, the BBC and BSkyB finally settled a protracted row in Britain over an £85 million (€120 million) deal that guarantees distribution of the BBC's channels to 6.7 million Sky homes.

They have agreed a new deal, believed to represent savings of tens of millions of pounds, which will ensure BBC1 and BBC2 remain the first channels Sky viewers see on the electronic TV listings that appear on screen automatically when they switch on their sets.

The deal has been described in Britain as a U-turn by the BBC director general, Mr Greg Dyke, who announced in March he was severing all links with Sky. While Mr Dyke is prepared to work with Sky, he has decided that BBC channels will be unencrypted and that is what is concerning the Irish television industry.

Where are they getting the €500 from?
You can get a FTA Digital receiver for £89 Sterling, and a MiniDish and LNB for £70. Borrow your neighbours drill and install it yourself. All for the princely sum of €200 .;)

Icehouse

http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcast/story/0,7493,979961,00.html

BHG

>Where are they getting the €500 from?
>You can get a FTA Digital receiver for £89 Sterling, and a
>MiniDish and LNB for £70. Borrow your neighbours drill and
>install it yourself. All for the princely sum of €200

I paid Euro 605 for twin cam DVB rec. + 1M dish + motor.
I expect to pay about Eur200 to import a fixed solution. but

1. If you are out of contract, Sky gear will do it,
what’s an EPG anyway, I never had one so I wont miss it <g>
if the country hits hard times and BBC gets more soccer
then more & more Sky unsubscriptions will have idle gear to
point @ more BBC than you got when you paid Sky.

2. LIDL will sell FTA DVB gear as they have done in the UK within
the last two months, I know they sold out of the Analog gear
in Ireland, @ Eur60 about last June, so If LIDL get a truck from
?spain? with ?tecnomates? and LIDL dishes <pun> expect to pay
<guess> Eur139

July 10th 2003
my eldest will want CBBC while the next two will want
CBeeBies, wife wants BCC1/3 and I want BBC 2/4 and R5L+
sports extra. not that we are glued to the TV or anything.

Now all I need is a second hand mini dish, as the 1M doesn't like
westerly winds @ 28.x deg

cheers bhg/

Tony

Originally posted by carrolls
Where are they getting the €500 from?
You can get a FTA Digital receiver for £89 Sterling, and a MiniDish and LNB for £70. Borrow your neighbours drill and install it yourself. All for the princely sum of €200 .;)

I agree 500€ seems way too much althoigh 159 is closer to 230 € according to
http://www.xe.com/ucc/

Tony

byte

What kind of receiver can ya expect to get for around STG£89 ?

I must now try and get Astra 2 on my Triax dish (currently picks up Astra 1 and Hotbird), though dont' have and cannot get proper bracketry for it! So it's going to be a makeshift "watty job" for me with strip of metal and plenty of cable ties and insulation tape!

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by byte
So it's going to be a makeshift "watty job" for me with strip of metal and plenty of cable ties and insulation tape!

so MacGyver is hiding in Limerick

watty

Ive never repaired a radiator hole with raw egg...
(have done some odd things with ball point pen springs though).

Once you get your offset LNBs in best place why not pour in a bit of Hot melt glue gun. Then you have a custom moulded saddle.

I did eventually replace the cable ties and tape and plasticine with a real bracket on one dish and a home made metal bracket on another.

(I never served in 'Nam either)

carrolls

What kind of receiver can ya expect to get for around STG£89 ?

The question is What won't you get for £89?
You won't get Conditional access functionality.
There is no embedded de-scrambler.
No fast scanning, No decent EPG. No motorization functionality.
The quality of the AF amplifiers might be suspect in these cheap machines.
Still you will get a fairly decent picture.
Check out the Christmas edition of 'What Satellite' magazine for more details of the product. It is probably in more recent editions too.

Capt'n Midnight

Have both at home.

Guess what - the little Humax - just sits there and works
EPG is limited to now/next - but you can series link if you want (ie same bat time, same bat channel) you can flick between two stations with one button. it will search for stations , to pick any one of the first 9 channels you press one button - you can hide all the channels you don't want to watch etc. etc. you can have as many favorites as you want .... and no red dot.

The Sky digibox frequently hangs - until you power it off - sometimes it looses some channels for days on end - then it's "searching for listings" - flicking between channels is usually three keypresses - or wading through loads of "call to subscribe" junk - and other channels is basically a test menu - not really user friendly..

Conditonal access - well if you are into paying subscriptions - as I remember it's about €30 extra to get a receiver with Viacess built in...

Fast scanning - yeah right... the humax changes as fast as sky - but you have to pressmore buttons on sky box

the quality of tuner is fairly dodgy on many sky boxes (AF seems fine - but if you want good sound then you are going to be spend wads on good speakers anyway...)

watty

My Hauppauge DVBs PCI card keeps getting better

Every new model or upgrade Technotrend do they upgrade the software. The new SW is a free download in English or German from www.technotrend.de who seem to make the basic no TV out (like Skystar2) and fancy TVout /CI/DSP/Mpeg2 HW cards like Siemens, Hauppage Nexus PCI/DVBs etc.

It doesn't have far to go now to surpass Sky+ / Tivo for ease of use, and in some respects much better than Sky Digibox/ Sky+

Features added since I bought the card:
* learn any RC5 remote, assign any button to any function
* Now record MPEG2 stream in actual "normal" file format rather than in "PVA stream format" without recoding, means faster export to DVD/CD archive (VCD or SVCD will still need recoded)
* Configurable OSD with OSD menus
* EPG magasine from German and some other channels
* Export entire Teletext received (caches entire magasine) as HTML web site
* Text search entire teletext magasine
* Updated transponder lists
* Easier / faster scanning and channel list edits
* option to have Now/next and station name appear on ordinary TV when channel flicking (semi transparent)
* Popup list of stations transparent on picture to change channel

Always had:
IR Remote
S-Video or composite out built in
3 x Stereo hiFi audio out
1 x coax Digital Audio out (for 5.1 or Stereo)
4 way LNB Disqec switching
Data reception for EON/ Casablanca etc
Option for CI board to take a CAM
PAL or NTSC output depends of if it received DVBs PAL or DVBs NTSC
Now & Next EPG
99 TV favorites with 2 digit code
99 Radio favorites with 2 digit code
Total number TV/Radio seem only limited by the satellites, not the SW!

It will also run versions of all the scary stuff that works on SkyStar2 (£60, but no built in TV or audio out, DSP, CI or media bridge), like full positioner SW, decrypt with no CAM, 422, MPEG4 etc etc

I think the Hauppauge Nexus PCI DVbs (the newer model) is about £180, so not cheap. But compared with a PVR not bad.

You can even get "nice" "hiFi" styled cases for PC now for under TV etc.

I think the only CAMs you can't get/work viewing card etc for the CI board option are PowerVu and Sky/NDS videoguard

Leesider

Just found this on Digital Spy; apparantly viewable with FTV card:

Currently they are Broadcasting:
10817V 22000 5/6
BBC ONE BS
BBC ONE NT
BBC ONE OX
BBC ONE PY
BBC ONE SO
BBC ONE TW

10788V 22000 5/6
BBC ONE BM
BBC ONE HL
BBC ONE LS
BBC ONE MR
BBC ONE NC
BBC ONE NO

byte

Those BBC ONE regions are encrypted on my Scots subscription card

Ballydung

Works for me, just got the weather for merseyside/north west,
although cannot get BBC NI,Wales or Jockland.
(I have a English sub)

Can anybody with a ROI sub get them ?