Porn, Strip Clubs And The Like

Kell

tigerlily wrote:

K, this is the kind of stuff you dish out other posters, so you can see my point

Look at your screen dear. Thats it, just to the left of this post theres a little avatar. Under it theres a line called "location". Written beside location is "Around PI's having a laugh". I wrote that, see.

How can such blatant píss taking be lost on someone.

K-

Dr.Feelgood

People have changed their position on these issues over the last century. Ignoring it doesnt change the fact that its there.

If i saw a porn mag lying in a mates gaf sure i'd pick it up flick through it no porblem!! It would never change anything between me and the gf, i mean she's all the lady i need and then some.

I can see how people think its not good.

But i can see why people like it and get into it.

Personally i'm not an avid porn viewer, i have seen and owned my share in the past, but i have past them on to the younger generation, i guess i grew out of fantasy and into reality.

Take it easy.

Nothing done or said here can change anything- which i am eternally grateful for-

The Corinthian

tigerlily wrote:

well i had to use th pc when i was looking for a job and it was in a work folder.

So you were reading his work folders... I see...

I know he didnt feel bullied into doing it, we both talked about it and he didnt just agree with me for the sake of it.

Are you certain of that? Nothing you’ve said in this discussion would indicate that you would have been in anyway been interested in compromise, so ultimately when you say you “talked about it”, what you really mean is that you discussed your position until he accepted it.

Faced with such a predetermined discussion, you’ll find most people (not just men) will opt for the easy life and go with the flow. Then they’ll, figuratively or literally, find a different folder to hide their porn in.

I didnt reciprocate - but quite honestly none of this is any of your business, so really is shouldnt justify myself at all to you TC.

You don’t have to justify yourself to me or anyone else. But you’re not - the whole point of bouncing such discussions off complete strangers on the Internet is that you’re justifying it to yourself. After all, you began this thread claiming some form of moral superiority to all those strippers and porn stars, and only later began to admit your primary issue was one of insecurity.

It seems you are trying to demonstrate that my relationship is a sham in many ways by pointing out flaws with myself and him, when really thats not what the original discussion was based on.

As has been pointed out by people other than me, the original discussion was based upon you attempting to create a moral justification for your personal insecurities.

Nonetheless, I don’t think your relationship is a sham by any stretch of the imagination. After all, I’ve stressed from my very first post here that it’s a question of horses for courses, and so you could both be very well suited to each other.

And besides you seem to have hard time understanding that not all men want to aggrevate a situation or ask for something in return.

You’re right, not all men do, and the same goes for many women. Better to accept the imposed stasis quo, goes the theory. Not a trait I’ve ever fount terribly attractive or commendable, but again, that’s just my opinion.

Fyi there are many sacrifices i do for him all the time, moving country was a big one.

“You got to choose where we live, so I get to choose how we have sex” - in fairness, it doesn’t work like that.

tigerlily

You are very petty and obviously dont have faith in relationships yourself very much if your retort is to pick at flaws . I think you should be able to trust the person you are with- and you are over generalising guys by saying he will continue to be dishonest to me and ignore my feelings by stashing it elsewhere, call it naive...but if you dont have trust then what do you have?


And yes i believe every person has a right to defend their morals, and as for Doctor feelgoods posts, they were balanced enough to make me see another point of view, but when people attack and try to counter blame my insecurities as a reason for moral justification, well thats not what this is about AT all. its something u are making it about. I replied to questions about my relationship which i shouldnt have really as it is MY viewpoint and really nothing to do with analysing my relationship with the man i happen to love.


You got to choose where we live, so I get to choose how we have sex” - in fairness, it doesn’t work like that.

This is not a reason why i asked him to try and stop, it is not an exchange shop, someone will sacrifice something if they love someone and dont want to hurt them non-stop - you obviously arent aware of what integrals are part of a good honest relationship.

Kell

tigerlily wrote:

it is not an exchange shop,

My understanding, and I would think most peoples understanding of a relationship is compromise and exchange.

So tell me, what is your idea of a relationship? Surely you cant believe that you can tell someone how to behave or what to do without expecting to reciprocate in some way or another. How long do you expect to maintain this staus quo before your BF becomes bitter about being stood on.

K-

--Kaiser--

tigerlily wrote:

But you might want to reconsider that not all women find porn funny or acceptable

If they have a justification for not finding it acceptable then I would, but my last gf used to read mens mags more than I did, she wouldn't have had a problem with me looking at porn, and I didn't have a problem with her ogling Johnny Depp in every movie he was in (for example), i don't really see your justification

tigerlily

Hes not bitter, in fact he said he doesnt want anything to stand in the way of our trust. Compromise and exchange is very important, i would never disagree and he loves me enough and i trust him enough to believe him. As for him feeling stood on- he is a strong and capable man, and is not threatened one bit by a woman trying to control him, he is not fearful of that. And thats admirable

As for me? as you dont know me per se, youll never understand exactly how much sacrifice has been played on my part. so hope that answers your questions.

the_syco

tigerlily wrote:

it is not an exchange shop, someone will sacrifice something if they love someone and dont want to hurt them non-stop - you obviously arent aware of what integrals are part of a good honest relationship.

So, it's not an exchange shop, but you expect him to sacrifice stuff, to get something (your peace of mind)?

tigerlily

Kaiser, u cant use your girlfriend as a benchmark, everyones different as ive learned by asking the question and being honest about my views. You can hardly expect your girlfriend to represent all. And looking at johnny depp in a moview is hardly the same as watching a pile of blow up dolls doing sex acts is it..

tigerlily

cant u just read the posts the syco- i said we BOTH made sacrifices during the last 7 years. I used to do hurtful things that i didnt find harmful but they hurt him and i cared for him, so I stopped.

Quantum

tigerlily wrote:

This is not a reason why i asked him to try and stop, it is not an exchange shop, someone will sacrifice something if they love someone and dont want to hurt them non-stop - you obviously arent aware of what integrals are part of a good honest relationship.

You are absolutely 100% right and don't listen to the crap coming your way.

Everyone is different, and everyone is entitled to their own view of this kind of material.

Sex is an incredibly powerful drive, and not everyone has the the same desire for it or reaction to it or control over it. Some people can cope with multiple partners for whatever reason, strength or emotional indifference. Some people have stronger feelings and emotions than others.

What passes as pornography these days, usually just explicit sex, is something that suits some people and not others. Also it suits some people at certain times in their lives and relationships, and not others. There is no blanket rule. And don't lets try to pretend it doesn't affect us sexually, because it does. It does affect us emotionally as well as in the short physical ways we know so well. The issue is whether we welcome and can cope with those emotional affects or not.

When it comes to men and women these days it is also impossible to throw around generalisations. There are MANY men I have known over the years who do not approve or and have little interest in sexual material. Many men consider it a 'masculine' thing to be cool with it and treat it like a joke. On the other hand more women are interested in looking at sexual material now than ever before. Perhaps they were surpressed, I don't know.

The dangers to relationships of sexual material like this are real however and it's juvenile to deny it. If it upsets one partner then the other partner has to consider this as a serious issue and not try to deny it or deny their feelings. It has destroyed many relationships over the years. One partner is perfectly entitled to say that it upsets them or makes them feel 'whatever' it makes them feel. And they are perfectly entitled to take a stand on it. If their partner values it more than their partnership then so be it and they deserve what they get.
However not much more than many other emotive issues. Golf destroys relationsips too.

Explicit sexual material and strip clubs etc. is something that has been with us forever, and will remain with us. People should be able to take it or leave it and it shouldn't be pushed into people's faces.
I favour liberal laws but I also believe it should be kept off the street frontage and off the mainstream media.

tigerlily

Thank you- at last a fair and balanced decent post that focused on the issue to hand and not my goddam relationship!

seamus

tigerlily wrote:

And looking at johnny depp in a moview is hardly the same as watching a pile of blow up dolls doing sex acts is it..

Some may disagree. In fact, some may say it's worse. Watching a movie to see Johnny Depp for example, is focussing your intentions on one person, finding that one particular person attractive, and fantasising about them. Watching a porn movie is usually about the sexual act, the thought of what's happening, perhaps the sexiness of the actors in it is a bonus, but quite often the actors aren't even attractive, attesting to the pure sexual buzz it's giving.

Some would say the former is more of a betrayal as it actually gives the man a reason to be jealous (your girlfirend fancies another man - maybe she'd run away if he knocked on the door tomorrow), whereas the latter doesn't - you rman is simply enjoying the sexual imagery, but has no specific desires towards the people in the film.

(Obviously if you're *into* your porn you may watch porn with certain actors, but discounting that)

tigerlily

seamus wrote:

Some may disagree. In fact, some may say it's worse. Watching a movie to see Johnny Depp for example, is focussing your intentions on one person, finding that one particular person attractive, and fantasising about them. Watching a porn movie is usually about the sexual act, the thought of what's happening, perhaps the sexiness of the actors in it is a bonus, but quite often the actors aren't even attractive, attesting to the pure sexual buzz it's giving.

Some would say the former is more of a betrayal as it actually gives the man a reason to be jealous (your girlfirend fancies another man - maybe she'd run away if he knocked on the door tomorrow), whereas the latter doesn't - you rman is simply enjoying the sexual imagery, but has no specific desires towards the people in the film.

(Obviously if you're *into* your porn you may watch porn with certain actors, but discounting that)

Seamus that is the biggest load of double standard crap! cmon, you are saying that a film with johnny depp could be more threatening or could be worse than a porn film? im not so convinced.

I mean is that what we tell people, our generation? is that why when say Janet jacksons nipple flipped out of her clothes there was f***in uproar? So if many many people were hurt and offended by seeing that, or their teenage daughters or sons seeing that, what do you think they would think that its ok for them to watch a porn movie?

To be fair, any kind of obsession (externally) is NO good for people that are supposed to love and respect each other.

tigerlily

Some would say the former is more of a betrayal as it actually gives the man a reason to be jealous (your girlfirend fancies another man )


So a woman isnt supposed to be jealous and insecure if the man fancies someone else...ehh DOUBLE STANDARDS

--Kaiser--

I'm not using an ex-girlfriend as benchmark, I'm trying to see your justification of porn being unacceptable, I don't get it, its just porn, people don't look at porn because they are unhappy with their partner,
...its like eating candy rather than a three course meal...i don't particularly like candy, but sometimes it has to do when there's nothing else around

(what a ridiculous analogy)

tigerlily

I understand that- the problem is when its obsessive and damaging what u have, u may not see a prob, but believe me there is people still out there (obv a dying breed) that dont like it, think its gross and no good can come out of it, particularly when say the person is lying or keeping it from the other, and particularly when they keep doing it when they are aware of the damage its causing.

I do appreciate your honesty K

Kingsize

& as martin amis so elequently put it " when you want a F*ck & its not
available a W*nk will do, but when you want a w*nk nothing will suffice"
you dont feel the johnny depp thing is the same but it pretty much is,
its just more "socially acceptable" & as i said most ment dont get pi-ssed off about it.
Think about it most celebrity blokes are referred to as "hunks" well what exactly is a "hunk" - a piece of meat?? so there you go treating men like objects just because its more widespread in the mainstream does not mean its any more justifiable.
most blokes will look at porn & when theyve got their jollies its forgotten about they dont apire to be like the characters , it serves its purpose & we all know what that is - which is much less dangerous/harmful & in my opinion offensive to women than girls trying to be like celebrities or (even worse) girls who look up to & try to live their lives like the vacuous twats Portrayed in tv programmes like sex & the city, desperate housewives etc

tigerlily

hich is much less dangerous/harmful & in my opinion offensive to women than girls trying to be like celebrities or (even worse) girls who look up to & try to live their lives like the vacuous twats Portrayed in tv programmes like sex & the city, desperate housewives etc

Absolutely not related- but why do think women feel a pressure to look like these women, cos the pressure is there.

as for 'hunks' yeah, but dont guys have 'babes' that they ogle( FHM, MAXIM , NUTS), so its all relevant. Porn is alot darker and can be more affecting into peoples lives and minds , than say'pirates of the carribean'. its just ridiculous to compare and that is not the issue being talked about. But

Zulu

Tigerlily you're are american, right?

tigerlily wrote:

why lust after somebody else in all these various type of ways if you claim to love and are totally attracted to your partner, no it doesnt make sense.

Lust and love are different. I lust after Kate Moss. I love my girlfriend, and it's not double standards as you suggested:

Guys dont want to go out with porn stars but they wan* off to them and get aroused, and they expect the girlfriend to behave differently cos they love them. sounds like double standards to me. sorry

It's called fantasy. :rolleyes:

A real man doesnt hide or decieve and is more than happy to share things together.

Don't force your misconceptions of "real" men on me thank you. I've been one for over 28 years, I know better. Real women except men for what they are. :rolleyes:

being open is very good for a relationship theres no doubt. secrets only damage it.

This is an interesting point, especally when you consider

I found some porn on his PC... ...he understands how i feel... ...he agreed that yeah, we should be focusing on each other

that you berated him over porn, and have forced him to deny it and hide it deeper. So now he lives a lie.

It's clear you're intimadated by the ladies in the porn industry, that's fair enough, but to suggest that they are destroying the fabric of human relationships is just some sort of Neo-Con waffle. It's a farce. Denying the existance of sexuality is what destroys relationships. Let me give you an example:

You do and advanced search of your boyfriends machine for "*.jpg, *.jpeg, *.mov, *.mpg, *.mpeg, *.avi" and you check the return results.
Now your upset because he supposedly agreed with you that "he understands how i feel... ...he agreed that yeah, we should be focusing on each other" but evidently has been looking at porn the whole time, AND keeping it secret from you, AND you haven't even been away!!!

I would suggest that repressed sexuality destroys relationships.

tigerlily

& as martin amis so elequently put it " when you want a F*ck & its not
available a W*nk will do, but when you want a w*nk nothing will suffice


WHATEVER HAPPENED TO CLASS?

tigerlily

You do and advanced search of your boyfriends machine for "*.jpg, *.jpeg, *.mov, *.mpg, *.mpeg, *.avi" and you check the return results.
Now your upset because he supposedly agreed with you that "he understands how i feel... ...he agreed that yeah, we should be focusing on each other" but evidently has been looking at porn the whole time, AND keeping it secret from you, AND you haven't even been away!!!

Youre generalising again.sorry but that may apply to you, but not necessarily me mate, and nationality has nothing to do with it.

A 'real' woman is your opinion accepts everything about a man, well no i dont agree, a real woman should be able to communicate her true feelings to her partner which is the only thing i did.

Zulu

tigerlily wrote:

WHATEVER HAPPENED TO CLASS?

The truth came shining out from behind it's pretence.

seamus

tigerlily wrote:

Seamus that is the biggest load of double standard crap! cmon, you are saying that a film with johnny depp could be more threatening or could be worse than a porn film? im not so convinced.

So a woman isnt supposed to be jealous and insecure if the man fancies someone else...ehh DOUBLE STANDARDS

<- You










<- Point

Read it again. By and large, a man watching a porn movie has little if nothing to do with "fancying" the women in it.

By your logic, you should avert your gaze and turn off the "filth" whenever a male celebrity that you fancy does a sex scene or strips off in a movie. After all, you're getting titillation from the sexual imagery, that means you must not love your boyfriend after all. OH NOE!

tigerlily

tigerlily wrote:

You do and advanced search of your boyfriends machine for "*.jpg, *.jpeg, *.mov, *.mpg, *.mpeg, *.avi" and you check the return results.
Now your upset because he supposedly agreed with you that "he understands how i feel... ...he agreed that yeah, we should be focusing on each other" but evidently has been looking at porn the whole time, AND keeping it secret from you, AND you haven't even been away!!!

Youre generalising again.sorry but that may apply to you, but not necessarily me mate, and nationality has nothing to do with it.

A 'real' woman is your opinion accepts everything about a man, well no i dont agree, a real woman should be able to communicate her true feelings to her partner which is the only thing i did.

Don't force your misconceptions of "real" men on me thank you. I've been one for over 28 years, I know better-


So you believe a man should deceive and hide things from his partner? do u honestly think that is healthy???

tigerlily

Seamus, i actually dont find male celebs attractive and i certainly dont obsess about them.. sorry to dissapoint

Fysh

Moving away from this little tiff you're having (ie. constantly refusing to accept anyone's disagreement with you, and claiming that anyone continuing to disagree with you is a horrible piece of work or "unclassy" or something)...

you have yet to provide any actual evidence that porn/strip clubs/masturbation is destroying relationships and not just a lack of trust or communication. In light of this, and despite your best efforts, you're still looking like a bit of a fool.

Also, one might mention : for someone who claims not to be judging others and not to be coming from a bible-basher background....what the hell are you getting at talking about "class"? It may have escaped you, but you don't get to tell people how to live their lives. They don't get to tell you how to live yours, either. And there is no such thing as a legally accepted "classiness code of conduct", so it might be an idea to drop such idiotic assertions from your arguments or at least give them the proper qualifier (ie "in my personal opinion").

Zulu

tigerlily wrote:

Youre generalising again.sorry but that may apply to you, but not necessarily me mate, and nationality has nothing to do with it

I'm hardly generalising AGAIN considering this is my first post on this thread, however, I can make this generalisation just like I can say all men masterbate. (and guess what - he probably isn't thinking about you when he masterbates!) Men, with internet access look at porn. Do a search - I dare you.

A 'real' woman is your opinion accepts everything about a man, well no i dont agree, a real woman should be able to communicate her true feelings to her partner which is the only thing i did.

That was a joke about "real" women btw. But interestingly: you don't agree that people in a relationship should accept the other person for what they are? ...or does that only apply for women? ...and by "communicate" what exactly do you mean? - force the other party to comply?

I believe that in a healthy relationship - both parties should accept the other party as human; they should accept them for who they are - failings and all.
If you love an ideal - your relationship is doomed.

tigerlily

I said it seems to be destroying relationships, an open ended statement, if u read my original quote.

I am sorry but i did find the answer very distasteful.

Bible basher?? dont make me laugh, its called morals

seamus

tigerlily wrote:

Seamus, i actually dont find male celebs attractive and i certainly dont obsess about them.. sorry to dissapoint

You're taking this as a personal attack. I'm not necessarily speaking about you, I'm talking about "one".
However, if you are actually saying that you find nobody else in the world except your boyfriend attractive, then I've got news for you honey - it's not the rest of the world that has a problem.