Porn, Strip Clubs And The Like

Zulu

tigerlily wrote:

So you believe a man should deceive and hide things from his partner? do u honestly think that is healthy???

No - I don't think it's healthy to have to hide porn from a partner, but sometimes it has to be done. Some women just can't accept that men look at porn. Some women can't accept that men masterbate. I once went out with a girl for a few years and was forced to "hide/lie about" masterbating - evidently it didn't last, and I'd never find myself in that situation again.

tigerlily

Sorry guys i know u are all obviously very upset, and unable to have a conversation re: the issues that i wanted to discuss without projecting them onto yourselves but the fact is, while i maybe in the minority, i dont give a damn. I will always stand by what i believe in, you can call me insecure, unwilling to accept my partner, my relationship will be doomed etc etc, but the facts are there will always be people that think like me too.

Its all too easy to blame me for my failing just cos i dont 'happen' to agree and say yeah 'its deadly' well no, i dont and im sticking by that rule.It doesnt make me feel connected to my partner, there is nothing weak about him and hes the type of person not to do what i say for the sake of it.

But on a respectful note, thank you for being so kind as to offer your truthful and honest views, but i guarentee you that there are people out there that cannot say how they might be feeling about porn and strip clubs being in their relationships, particularly if they are made feel taht they need to wake up or that people will say'whats the problem, with you, just accept it' or 'you must be insecure'/ They are easy things to say but reality is that it makes some people unhappy. end of story for me.

The Corinthian

tigerlily wrote:

You are very petty and obviously dont have faith in relationships yourself very much if your retort is to pick at flaws .

If it pleases you to think so, then by all means do so.

I think you should be able to trust the person you are with- and you are over generalising guys by saying he will continue to be dishonest to me and ignore my feelings by stashing it elsewhere, call it naive...but if you dont have trust then what do you have?

You tell me. To begin with you don’t trust him enough that you don’t feel threatened by him looking at a few dirty pictures, and frankly how you discovered porn on his computer is suspect to say the least. So forgive me if I believe your trust in him to be a little flawed and conditional.

And yes i believe every person has a right to defend their morals, and as for Doctor feelgoods posts, they were balanced enough to make me see another point of view, but when people attack and try to counter blame my insecurities as a reason for moral justification, well thats not what this is about AT all. its something u are making it about.

Except the reality is that you weren’t really defending your morals, you were using them as a pretext to justify your insecurities. You’ve contradicted yourself so many times in that regard (something highlighted not only by myself) that I would have thought it quite obvious even to you by now.

I replied to questions about my relationship which i shouldnt have really as it is MY viewpoint and really nothing to do with analysing my relationship with the man i happen to love.

As I said, you have no reason to justify yourself to me or anyone else here. Stop responding, it’s that simple. But that’s not the reason you posted in the first place though, is it? You came seeking validation for those insecurities, to find that you are right to have them, that you’re not alone and you’re still largely looking for that validation. So it’s not me that is looking for justification.

This is not a reason why i asked him to try and stop, it is not an exchange shop, someone will sacrifice something if they love someone and dont want to hurt them non-stop

With respects last time I checked relationships were all about compromise.

you obviously arent aware of what integrals are part of a good honest relationship.

Maybe I am aware of what makes up a good honest relationship and maybe I’m not. But I am a good study of human nature.

Zulu

tigerlily wrote:

Sorry guys i know u are all obviously very upset, and unable to have a conversation re: the issues that i wanted to discuss without projecting them onto yourselves but the fact is...

The fact is, I'm giving you an example to help you understand my position - I'm by no means upset.

I will always stand by what i believe in, you can call me insecure, unwilling to accept my partner, my relationship will be doomed etc etc, but the facts are there will always be people that think like me too.

Good for you. I'm only suggesting that it's not healthy to disregard others point of view, especally in a relationship. Your boy friend likes porn, you don't - that only becomes a problem if he tries to force the porn on you, or if you try to force him to bury it away and feel ashamed about it. As you say "openess" is key to a sucessful relationship.

Its all too easy to blame me for my failing just cos i dont 'happen' to agree and say yeah 'its deadly' well no, i dont and im sticking by that rule.

I'm not blaming you for anything other than apparently forcing him to cover up his interest in pron - which it appear you have done. (Judging from your attitude here, and what you have said in your post.)

people will say'whats the problem, with you, just accept it' or 'you must be insecure'/ They are easy things to say but reality is that it makes some people unhappy. end of story for me.

You don't have to like it; you don't have to buy it; you don't have to look at it, but to deny it, and not accept it in your partners life (or men's in general) is nieve and unhealthy.

seamus

tigerlily, with all due respect, people answered your questions, and then YOU dragged your personal life into it because you weren't accepting people's answers.

tigerlily

http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,1079016,00.html
http://boards.glamour.com/thread.jspa?threadID=33786&forumID=4&tstart=0http://boards.glamour.com/thread.jspa?threadID=33831&messageID=34903
http://www.able2know.com/forums/about47275-0-asc-0.html

Some links of interest, but to be honest there is too many out there to post

seamus

tigerlily wrote:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,1079016,00.html
http://boards.glamour.com/thread.jspa?threadID=33786&forumID=4&tstart=0http://boards.glamour.com/thread.jspa?threadID=33831&messageID=34903
http://www.able2know.com/forums/about47275-0-asc-0.html

Some links of interest, but to be honest there is too many out there to post

Are they attempts to prove that porn is damaging relationships? First link - interesting article, deals mainly with pornography addiction. Big big difference.
Other two links are women complaining that they're not getting their way. I don't see men threatening to leave because their partners refuse to let them see porn.

tigerlily

For the last time, i was demonstrating the effects of porn etc and posted a few articles from women too. Its up to you what u think, but it can get bad enough for women to want to end a relationship.

Keyzer

tigerlily wrote:

Well yeah Kaiser, that is true

Whats true? and are you talking to me or the "other" Kaiser...

Fysh

tigerlily wrote:

I said it seems to be destroying relationships, an open ended statement, if u read my original quote.

Yes. And you seem to be pretty damn stupid and afflicted by selective reading. Only the difference is I can point to various responses you've made in this thread as evidence, and you have so far pointed to a couple of articles at best tangentially related to your claim.

See the difference?

tigerlily wrote:

I am sorry but i did find the answer very distasteful.

Which is not the point; it was a challenging way to make it but there was still a question underlying the post and you've still ignored it. Apparently claiming that you find the discussion "distasteful" is enough to excuse you from backing up your claims when you know you'll lose the argument...does that mean I can claim to find discussing this with you as "distasteful" because I dislike talking to idiots who can't hold a proper, logically structured and coherent discussion?

tigerlily wrote:

Bible basher?? dont make me laugh, its called morals

Yes, well done. I don't give a rat's arse what you call them, you still don't get to inflict your own values on someone else. What school of morality, exactly, says that working in the sex trade is immoral? Because few of the non-religious ones I've encountered say anything so specific. Personally, I'm a negative utilitarianist, and as such I say - if everyone involved chooses to partake in it of their own free will, roll with it. Until it hurts someone (and I mean directly, not by being a symptom of another problem) I have no real problem with it. If you're going to go with this morality excuse, back it up with something.

ferdi

whats wrong with a little light relief?

seamus

tigerlily wrote:

For the last time, i was demonstrating the effects of porn etc and posted a few articles from women too. Its up to you what u think, but it can get bad enough for women to want to end a relationship.

Ah OK, but even so I disagree that it's a particular crusade, a moral "problem" that warrants dealing with. Every relationship ends because someone is unhappy with something in the relationship. It's called incompatibility. You can't plaster over the cracks by pretending something doesn't exist, having it legally banned or otherwise "excluding" it from a relationship. If one person likes to watch porn, and the other is hurt by this, then you compromise* or break up.

I'm pretty sure that alcohol & money have a much more dramatic effect on relationships, and have a much higher capacity to hurt someone in a relationship than porn ever could.
What say you of them?

*Key word here - neither party should get their way.

--Kaiser--

tigerlily, i would suggest that you find your partner looking at porn unacceptable about as mature as you finding it unacceptable that he masturbates, you come across as being somewhat repressed, you mentioned offense at seeing Janet Jacksons nipple pop out at the Superbowl,

why is this? is the female body not a thing of beauty?

Kingsize

incedentally its completely acceptable for women of all ages & backgrounds to go out with their mates & see some or other group of Male strippers & theres always one or 2 doing the the rounds in Dublin & the actual stageshows are quite explicit from what ive heard
why is this just seen as "a laugh"? surely its no different in concept than a strip club .

The Clown Man

Oh my god.

Sorry but I have to post now.

Tigerlilly you REALLY have no clue whatsoever about men. You WANT your boyfriend and men in general to be exactly what you would like them to be and you refuse to admit that they are anything different. I'm sorry but your living in a little bubble where everything is pink and fluffy and got bows tied on.

Seriously. If (call it a whim) you actually are genuinely interested in finding out how men think and act and are in the real world just re-read this thread and ACTUALLY LISTEN to what is being said. The general male mental attitude has been explained for you time and time again by men and women alike. Denying it is a bad thing. Not for you but for any man you come in contact with. Your boyfriend especially. For god sake don't treat him like he is what you want him to be. He's not. You better realise that. He is built as a male and therefore has exactly the same wants and desires as the rest of us.

All I can say is he must really like you to be able to go along with your regime. Either that or he is just too timid to object. But either way, stopping him from acting like a man will end up in him resenting you. It's like women telling their husbands to pee sitting down. Ridiculous.

Look, I'm not trying to insult you here, actually I'm trying to help you. And him. For gods sake come out of your bubble and see men for what they really are and you might even find you'll like it. Once you get around the fact that you and your ego are not the centre of the world but to him are the most important bit.

SERIOUSLY. READ THE THREAD AND ABSORB SOME OF IT.

Keyzer

She's just a spanner lads, we are all wasting your time trying to get out points across to some one who is clearly set their ways and not willing to look at anything from someone elses point of view, let alone accept other peoples opinions or attitudes... Its not as if we're talking about devil worshipping etc. we're talking about porn...
Tigerlilly is so backwards and old fashioned its scary....

tigerlily

Clown man, i do accept what u say, i really do. Keyzer - you feel im a 'spanner' but thats your opinion.

Yes i admit im old fashioned, but so what? i like keeping those values.

Dr. Loon

Keyzer wrote:

Its not as if we're talking about devil worshipping etc. we're talking about porn...

...and what, may I ask, is wrong with devil worshipping?

This thread is hilarious. Tigerlily's like a spoiled child with her hands clamped over her ears.... "not listening, not listening".

The Corinthian

tigerlily wrote:

Yes i admit im old fashioned, but so what? i like keeping those values.

A moral justification for selfishness. Cute.

Kell

tigerlily wrote:

Yes i admit im old fashioned, but so what? i like keeping those values.

Because it is to your own detriment and your boyfriends- thats what. Holding onto an outdated belief system will lead you time and time again into arguments trying to defend your beliefs and you will constantly be offended when you encounter something that is outside your own belief system.

Modernising your point of view or at least broadening it might not cause you offense or have you cause other people offense by trying to push your belief system on them.

Just as a matter of interest- have you scanned your BF's PC for said file extensions. Not to be nosey, but just to validate your belief in trust. Also, were you referring to me when you said "I appreciate your honesty K"? I'd love to know what you were referring to if so.

K-

the_syco

tigerlily wrote:

Yes i admit im old fashioned, but so what? i like keeping those values.

Old fashioned, eh? Back in the kitchen, then, and cook me some pie, woman!

=-=

One question: do you have a problem with him looking @ other women. Maybe even on particular woman. Possibly famous woman. Possibly **** about her?

Because if you do, you're a hypocrit, as you seem to see nothing wrong with ooglying over JD.

Stix

Beruthiel wrote:

tigerlily
could you kindly read the charter with regards to posting threads like this in PI
thanks
B

Relax Beruthiel ... it is a valid discussion. It isnt like she is posting porn.

Sleepy

tigerlily, you were brought up in a home where sex was a dirty word weren't you? Now, I'm not going to attack you here, I can see where some of the other posters are coming from when they call you selfish, spoilt, uptight etc. It's not inidcative of your true self in any way though, it's indicative of society. You're trying to fit the role of 'good girl'

Our society values monogomy as a means of ensuring the procreation of our race. I can see the purpose of this when we're dealing with unprotected sex or sex that's being had with the intention of conceiving. However, as I'm sure you'll agree, human sexuality is about far more than the conception of our offspring. Our society is not the only one to have ever existed however, it's thought that early homosapiens were pack animals where an Alpha male had many sexual partners.

Religion, the male ego (in particular the desire to know that one's partner's offspring were one's own), fear of disappointing mother and many other factors have created the notion of the 'good girl' in society. You've obviously been brought up in this mould. However, the role of playing the 'good girl' is well known to be the key factor in many female sexual problems (particularly trouble in achieving climax or understanding one's sexual fantasies). For more info on this, I'd suggest reading up on the work of Nancy Friday [http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/202-0023270-9989473]

As the 'good girl', you have repressed your own true sexuality and want everyone else to share the same ideals you have about it. The need to look down on those that have 'fallen from grace' is a societal tool used in the rearing of 'nice girls' to make you feel like you're right to be the good girl when those niggling whispers in the back of your head tell you that part of you would love to be involved in whatever "depravity" it is that really gets you off. So instead of exploring your own sexuality, you repress it.

Now, maybe from a societal point of view, it is better to repress one's sexual desires. Particularly if those desires/fantasies are particularly taboo issues such as incest, beastiality or group sex where one could become pregnant without knowing the father.

However, from a relationship's perspective, the better the sex, the more likely you are to last together. Obviously other things will play a factor in this, but it's well proven that a sexually fulfilled man/woman is far less likely to play away than one who feels they can't ask their partner to help them fulfil a fantasy or perform an act that gets them off.

Pornography is just sexual pictures and images. That's all. People don't form lasting relationships on sex alone. It's a big factor in holding a couple together but it's certainly not the only one. To believe that a man looking at pictures/movies of other (probably heavily airbrushed) women when he's masturbating is somehow demeaning to his partner is silly. It's just about instant gratification and the visual stimulus that arouses most interest (sexual or otherwise) in men is the naked female form (off-topic but interestingly the visual stimulus that women react to most is that of a new born baby). Don't even try to claim that your boyfriend is the only thing you ever think of when you masturbate (assuming you're sexually liberated enough to do that?). It's simply not normal so where's the problem with the sexy pictures? Personally speaking, I'd rather my partner masturbated while looking at some pictures of a couple having sex / naked guys than while lying on the bed with her eyes closed thinking about her boss/ my best friend.

As for strip clubs? Lets just say that sexually fulfilled men don't need them and are unlikely to visit one other than 'for a laugh' with the lads on a stag do or whatever. There's nothing threatening about this to any relationship as it's not about sexual gratification, it's about tittilation and amusement.

If a guy's completely addicted to porn (as in prefers it to making love with his partner) or is visiting strip clubs for sexual gratification whilst in a relationship, the relationship isn't working and tbh probably isn't going to.

The ironic thing is that you'll probably ignore this post, label me a deviant and continue to play the role of the good girl and they're the one's that get cheated on most. Why? Because they've repressed their sexual selves, leading to an unfulfilling sexual relationship for either partner which cause men to stray either to porn, strip clubs, brothels or someone else who isn't so repressed.

The nice girls of the past were as responsible for the rampant sexism of the past when it was normal for men to be seeing a mistress behind his wife's back. It's ironic, the things you're insecure about that lead you to act in this way are the very things that being the nice girl will result in.

Stix

Originally Posted by tigerlily
Yes i admit im old fashioned, but so what? i like keeping those values.

You are perfectly entitled to keep those values you speak of tigerlily, however, that doesn' give you the right to tell others what they aren't allowed to enjoy. If you do not like porn, strip clubs or other such things, then steer clear of them. I do not like Garlic, but i don't insist that people stop eating it.

Zulu

Great post Sleepy.

Quantum

tigerlily wrote:

Clown man, i do accept what u say, i really do. Keyzer - you feel im a 'spanner' but thats your opinion.

Yes i admit im old fashioned, but so what? i like keeping those values.

Good for you, whether I agree with you or not. Except I must caution that you are really very naive if you think that you can get a sensible debate on such a subject from the contributors here. 'Lads' who are into porn always think every man is into it because that's 'what men do', when the truth is very different. They will always try to make you look abnormal while everything they do is normal. Don't buy into it, because it's a fraud.
If you don't like it and you tell your boyfriend you don't like it then he is a lyer and a cheat if he hides it or looks at it. He has to make up his mind if he prefers you and your trust or his stash of fantasies. And by the way that doesn't make you right ! it just makes it something you feel very very strongly about. And you are entitled to that.
Unfortunately some men prefer living in a fantasy, it's a lot safer and easier when they don't have to deal with real emotions and real consequences, and when they don't have to deal with real emotions they can label it as 'just pictures'.

Keyzer

Quantum wrote:

Good for you, whether I agree with you or not. Except I must caution that you are really very naive if you think that you can get a sensible debate on such a subject from the contributors here. 'Lads' who are into porn always think every man is into it because that's 'what men do', when the truth is very different. They will always try to make you look abnormal while everything they do is normal. Don't buy into it, because it's a fraud.
If you don't like it and you tell your boyfriend you don't like it then he is a lyer and a cheat if he hides it or looks at it. He has to make up his mind if he prefers you and your trust or his stash of fantasies. And by the way that doesn't make you right ! it just makes it something you feel very very strongly about. And you are entitled to that.
Unfortunately some men prefer living in a fantasy, it's a lot safer and easier when they don't have to deal with real emotions and real consequences, and when they don't have to deal with real emotions they can label it as 'just pictures'.

What time are you due back in the retirment home?

--Kaiser--

I think us 'lads' were on the more sensible side of the debate TBH,
no one said that all guys were into porn, but her partner obviously is

Keyzer

--Kaiser-- wrote:

I think us 'lads' were on the more sensible side of the debate TBH,
no one said that all guys were into porn, but her partner obviously is

I said most guys, not all, in one of my ealier posts, and I stand by that.

The Corinthian

Quantum wrote:

Good for you, whether I agree with you or not. Except I must caution that you are really very naive if you think that you can get a sensible debate on such a subject from the contributors here. 'Lads' who are into porn always think every man is into it because that's 'what men do', when the truth is very different. They will always try to make you look abnormal while everything they do is normal. Don't buy into it, because it's a fraud.

If you bothered to read this thread, which you’ve not, you’ll notice that porn has actually very little to with it really.

But since you’re willing to make comments about those posting here, I would have to observe that you’re actually quite adept at passing comment and making sweeping statements but never backing them up or defending them when challenged, in other threads. That would be a greater hallmark of living in a fantasy World that any displayed by any of the ‘lads’ here.