Porn, Strip Clubs And The Like

Kingsize

haha! sexual liberation me bollix !women are just as guilty at objectifying men its just that men dont really seem to get pi-ssed off about it.
i mean some tv programmes & adverts are completly bised against men, & wouldnt be broadcast were the situation reversed.
Footballers wives is just a porn programme for women FFS.
Nobody is up in arms about it though or are they.
has anybody come on here & said"my wife wont stop watching this tripe & buying clothes, the other night i caught her reading "heat" magazine ...??

this so called " lad culture" is that where groups of men hang around wearing pink & lemon shirts & looking at their false tans & hairstyles in the mirror?
& then go to a strip club & get sexually aroused in the presense of their mates? look out girls!!!

live & let live i think............

nesf

tigerlily wrote:

Louiville im not a feminist- but you obviously feel threatened by a woman who has an opinion and her own mind.

The facts stand for themselves, alot of women in relationships are very unhappy as this industry is affecting their love life and their views on men in general

*yawns*

Really? I never noticed and most of my friends are female. Most of them view porn and strip clubs as harmless, better than their bf cheating on them. So long as the guy is upfront about going there they genuinely don't mind. They then remind them of it whenever they are caught oogling some hot guy.

My honest opinion is, if a woman is blaming this industry for a bad relationship, then she is just deluding herself and ignoring the actual issues in the relationship.

The problem will generally be down to the two people involved and have nothing at all to do with said industry. It's just a handy excuse to blame something external for relationship problems.


Yes there are men (and women, though less so) who have a problem with porn/strip clubs, and are addicted to it and their world view is corrupted by it. But these people are not typical of your average guy. Your average guy does not have this problem.


And the above is coming from a guy who has no interest in porn or strip clubs. I don't care if porn and strip clubs are available or not, but I do think you are just ignoring the real issue.

Then again most people seem unable to actually deal with anything that doesn't fit precisely into their "world view", so I guess you're not alone.

tigerlily

fiar point nesf

The Sweeper

Men like visual imagery.

Women like emotional security.

A man comparing the woman he knows to the women in the visual imagery he likes, can rattle that woman's feeling of emotional security.

This is the basis of "men like porn and women don't".

Women can actually be just as titillated as men by vivid images of sex.

However it's the accompanying insecurities - am I not enough for him? why does he want to watch that stuff? Wow, does he want me to do that sort of thing? Hey based on his taste in titillation he likes women with large breasts/long legs/big bums/small bums/small breasts/big lips/blonde/red/black/brown hair and I don't have [insert as appropriate] like that so I can't be satisfying him... - that are the problem.

Women think differently to men. Men think differently to women. If women just accepted that men like porn, the world would be a nicer place. If men accepted that women are not likely to appreciate being compared to someone in a porn film, asked to perform an act from a porn film or accept an offer to watch a porn film that has something a little more 'specialised' than one-on-one action, the world would also be a nicer place.

Porn, strippers and lapdancing clubs aren't destroying relationships. What's happening is that the views of both sexes are becoming more polarised on these subjects, because of media and peer pressure to accept or reject the presence of outside sexual stimulus in a monogamus relationship based on a set of given moral values we're all supposed to aspire to.

So: you and 'the girls' think your boyfriends should be sexy, romantic men who are faithful to you and who don't look at other women, which includes strippers and porn. Therefore, if you accept your man doing that, 'the girls' will look down on you because he's a dirtbag and you're putting up with it so you must have no self respect.

And you and 'the boys' aren't going to be henpicked by the girls, and you'll do whatever the hell you want, so sneak along to the lapdancing clubs and get a private dance and assert your masculinity, but don't tell the girl, or she'll be like a nagging harpie about it and 'the boys' will think you're whipped.

Porn doesn't damage relationships. People's sh1tty lack of respect for each other damages relationships.

I've said it once, I'll say it again:

Porn - it's the marmite of the bedroom.

Kell

Minesajackdaniels wrote:

Porn - it's the marmite of the bedroom.

Buy that woman a drink. Such wonderful eloquence in the summation.

K-

tigerlily

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_1_40/ai_101530211 an interesting link for y'all as i was asked 2 provide

Dr.Feelgood

In all honesty, i have no problem as such with porn strip clubs and the likes.
I would question the people that get roped up in those industries though.
I think its the people who ruin marriages not those industries. Remember prostituition and adultery have been here long before you or i. Its not a new thing.

Personally i would not attend such a venue, without my girlfriend. I have nothing to hide from her. We went to Amsterdam together and had a luagh, there was no question of either of us being tempted!! I think we both have a massive physical & emotional attachment that could never be broken by a third party, especially not on ground of attraction. I reckon people that do allow themselves lust after others shouldn't really be in a relationship either.

I think if one of the couple was doing it behind the others back, then something would be wrong.

I know a real man needs a woman, and a real man wont hide himself from her. All other males that differ are "lads" , and you do not take a "lad" home to your mothers do ya i dont know/

I'm going to stop now.

What do you think?

tigerlily

i think if there were more men that were a little understanding like you itd be better, u are calmer and seem to understand, and i totally agree, why lust after somebody else in all these various type of ways if you claim to love and are totally attracted to your partner, no it doesnt make sense.

A real man doesnt hide or decieve and is more than happy to share things together.

simu

Minesajackdaniels wrote:

Porn doesn't damage relationships. People's sh1tty lack of respect for each other damages relationships.

Yeah, good point. I find the rest of your post a bit stereotypical though - maybe some people think like those you describe but certainly not everybody.

Scarinae

From the article that tigerlily gives the link to:

Many sex workers joked about really being "therapists" and understood their jobs to be about boosting a man's ego by convincing him that he is desirable, masculine, and successful. Thus customers were at times seeking an otherness within themselves, a sense of escape from those aspects of the self that felt oppressive in other spheres, such as old age, ugliness, insecurity, a lack of social skills, or intimate failures.

Ugh, I would hate to be a stripper

I'll admit the idea of porn and strip clubs makes me feel kind of sick, I'm definitely the type that doesn't like the Marmite. Maybe it is because I'm insecure, I don't know, it's certainly possible. Ok, I have never been in a strip club and I have never watched porn - maybe that's what's causing rifts, that women don't know enough about this kind of thing and they make assumptions which are a bit inaccurate or else completely wrong. Maybe if people were more open with each other it would help? Some people in this thread have already said that they wouldn't mind their partner going to a strip club if they knew about it beforehand, but it's the secret visits that annoy them

tigerlily

The article is a from the journal of sex research fyi- being open is very good for a relationship theres no doubt. secrets only damage it.

nesf

tigerlily wrote:

The article is a from the journal of sex research fyi- being open is very good for a relationship theres no doubt. secrets only damage it.

I disagree. I don't think the concept of "being open" is a good one. Yes there needs to a lot of sharing of thoughts between couples, but being in a relationship does not remove your right to privacy!

If I am in a relationship, there are certain things and parts of myself that are mine alone and not something that I feel would be shareable.

The concept of total openess works fine in principle, but apply it to imperfect people (ie everyone) and it falls apart.


There are things about me and in my mind that I do not have to share with anyone if I do not wish to. Just because I'm in a relationship, my right to privacy is not automatically removed.

In an ideal world, yes I would love to be able to share everything. But guess what, we don't live in one.

Kell

tigerlily wrote:

i think if there were more men that were a little understanding like you itd be better, u are calmer and seem to understand, and i totally agree,

Every one here has posted a rational, sound and calm opinion, however you only listen to the one that agrees with your point of view.

You suggest that men should be more understanding to women who are offended by porn however you choose not to be understanding to other peoples points of view or choice- especially people in the porn industry.

I work in a respectable industry selling trying to sell people things that some will want and some wont. A hooker or a porn actress sells herself to an audience where some will want it and some wont. Whats the difference?

By your ready acceptance of Dr. Feelgoods statement of honesty you seem to assume that the rest of us other posters or the majority of men visit strip joints etc without their other half knowing about it. What a generalisation. Jeez.

K-

limpdd

tigerlily wrote:

why lust after somebody else in all these various type of ways if you claim to love and are totally attracted to your partner, no it doesnt make sense.

It totally makes sense !!!

When your with someone and are totally in love with them and attracted to them, you senses don't just shut up shop and leave you. Your still turned on by the things that turned you on before, by you logic (?), if someone has a partner they can no longer find any other human being attractive?

Remember that the next time your with your bf and you see Brad Pitt or Jonny Depp (or whoever you find attractive) on the T.V.

Plus going to stip clubs and watching porn does not mean that a person will cheat or ruin a relationship, your mixing this up with the element of trust in a relationship, and lack of trust has nothing to do with porn or strip clubs.

Scarinae

nesf wrote:

The concept of total openess works fine in principle, but apply it to imperfect people (ie everyone) and it falls apart.

I disagree actually. I think if a relationship is really going to work then you have to be able to accept the other person's imperfections. If you can't accept them, then you shouldn't be together - I know most people will probably disagree with me though!

tigerlily

The porn loop is de rigueur, no longer outside the pale; starlets in tabloids boast of learning to strip from professionals; the “cool girls” go with guys to the strip clubs, and even ask for lap dances; college girls are expected to tease guys at keg parties with lesbian kisses à la Britney and Madonna.


But does all this sexual imagery in the air mean that sex has been liberated—or is it the case that the relationship between the multi-billion-dollar porn industry, compulsiveness, and sexual appetite has become like the relationship between agribusiness, processed foods, supersize portions, and obesity? If your appetite is stimulated and fed by poor-quality material, it takes more junk to fill you up. People are not closer because of porn but further apart; people are not more turned on in their daily lives but less so.


The young women who talk to me on campuses about the effect of pornography on their intimate lives speak of feeling that they can never measure up, that they can never ask for what they want; and that if they do not offer what porn offers, they cannot expect to hold a guy.

After all, pornography works in the most basic of ways on the brain: It is Pavlovian. An orgasm is one of the biggest reinforcers imaginable. If you associate orgasm with your wife, a kiss, a scent, a body, that is what, over time, will turn you on; if you open your focus to an endless stream of ever-more-transgressive images of cybersex slaves, that is what it will take to turn you on. The ubiquity of sexual images does not free eros but dilutes it.


Other cultures know this. I am not advocating a return to the days of hiding female sexuality, but I am noting that the power and charge of sex are maintained when there is some sacredness to it, when it is not on tap all the time. In many more traditional cultures, it is not prudery that leads them to discourage men from looking at pornography. It is, rather, because these cultures understand male sexuality and what it takes to keep men and women turned on to one another over time—to help men, in particular, to, as the Old Testament puts it, “rejoice with the wife of thy youth; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times.” These cultures urge men not to look at porn because they know that a powerful erotic bond between parents is a key element of a strong family.


from New york Metro .com i think its a great example of how some women would feel, as i do somtimes

simu

tigerlily wrote:

... its a great example of how some women would feel, as i do somtimes

Those women need to get some self-esteem tbh.

The Corinthian

tigerlily wrote:

These cultures urge men not to look at porn because they know that a powerful erotic bond between parents is a key element of a strong family.

from New york Metro .com i think its a great example of how some women would feel, as i do somtimes

Right, let me get this straight - you begin this thread by arguing that strip joints and porn are bad because they are demeaning (or at least the women involved lack self respect) and now apparently it’s bad because it dilutes the passion between two people in a relationship...

You’re not very secure in your relationships, are you?

tigerlily

fair enough- but its human nature for a lady to feel a little insecure when she knows her guy is looking at not only a few, but thousands of naked girls on the web, and in strip clubs etc.

I guarentee if women were into that and the shoe was on the other foot, the guy wouldnt feel 100% self-confident either- c'mon lets be honest.

tigerlily

FYI Corinthian - i believe the negative stuff overwhelms the positive yes, and it can affect relationships in lots of ways,not just one.

I can guarentee you i personally know women who feel the same way as i do- so i dont feel like an odditty sorry!

tigerlily

you may be a moderator i think it would be typical for you to take that view point as a quote from ur website is 'Debauched in character or practice; impure." - Milton.

And then to specify ur likes as women drink etc...quite original

Kingsize

yes but its pretty naive to think that you are the only person that your partner (male or female) finds attractive /fancies or fantasises about.it may be shocking when women find their boyfriends lookin at porn but its hardly likely in most relationships for a man to say"im just gonna knock one off in the bedroom knock on the door if you dont want to be shocked" this would be entirely honest but not entirely workable.
Being in a relationship can be all about compromising but i think this subject is avoided by most people.
strip clubs i just dont see the attraction but each to his own..as it were...

Keyzer

tigerlily wrote:

People are not closer because of porn but further apart; people are not more turned on in their daily lives but less so.

WTF??? where are you digging up this crap?

For the last time, you have an opinion which you are entitled to.
You give me the feeling that you look down your nose at a lot different people based on what they believe in or their opinions.
The rest of us here have different opinions. You seem like your out to deliver us from evil etc. If you think theres something wrong with porn then don't look at it, think about it or talk about.
What are you really hoping to achieve from this thread?

The young women who talk to me on campuses about the effect of pornography on their intimate lives speak of feeling that they can never measure up, that they can never ask for what they want; and that if they do not offer what porn offers, they cannot expect to hold a guy.

Remember earlier I said blokes like looking at porn stars?
Well, dig this, most blokes don't want to go out with a porn star, I don't, but I still watch them in action, its a fantasy.
You really think I'm gonna go home with a porn star and say "Hey mam, this is Christy Canyon, she can suck a golfball thru a 20ft hose and takes it up the arse, cuppa tea anyone?"

Wake up will ye, your getting on my nerves now....

Kingsize

Of course keeping the western world highly sexed could be a massive global conspiracy to create more "consumers" ......

tigerlily

Well sorry but i dont give a sh** if ur annoyed, your quite annoying yourself. I was trying to achieve a perspective but i still want (ed) to fight my own views..nothing wrong with that.

Kell

tigerlily wrote:

I guarentee if women were into that and the shoe was on the other foot, the guy wouldnt feel 100% self-confident either- c'mon lets be honest.

Thats the knub of the whole discussion.

If it makes you and others feel uncomfortable think about why instead of pointing a finger at something easier to point a finger at than yourself.

The column you quoted from regarded discussions with students on campus.
Everyone knows of the total laddish culture in college with most* college blokes attitude towards women being about as neanderthall as you can get. "Ugh... woman... uggh fill with beer....ugh feel up on the dance floor and drag to cave for consentual sex. Oh its not consentual.. who cares. She wont report it anyway".

Thankfully, these attitudes are short lived.

*Not researched and an absolute broad sweeping generalistion with some shred of truth. God damn, I wish I could fix this planet sooner. Then we'd have sexually experienced 17yr old virgins on tap.

K-

tigerlily

You seem like your out to deliver us from evil etc

thats your view but keyser if you werent interested/ or annoyed then you have a choice not to log onto this thread also, but you obviously feel strongly enough to write about it so whats the problem? i feel the same.

Guys dont want to go out with porn stars but they wan* off to them and get aroused, and they expect the girlfriend to behave differently cos they love them. sounds like double standards to me. sorry.

simu

tigerlily wrote:

The young women who talk to me on campuses about the effect of pornography on their intimate lives speak of feeling that they can never measure up, that they can never ask for what they want; and that if they do not offer what porn offers, they cannot expect to hold a guy.

Maybe this is what some women feel but it's based more on paranoia than reality. Most guys tend to be pretty damn happy to have a real, live woman naked in bed or wherever with them - these women are underestimating the power they hold. Also, they'd be better off focusing on experiencing pleasure themselves than obsessing neurotically about what their partner might or might not be thinking. Life isn't all that bad!

Dr.Feelgood

People will never be able to agree on everything.

Where would the fun be in that.

But to make someone feel bad because of there opinion is wrong.

They may not be right but, they're just human like the rest of us.


I'm not for world peace and i hate the concept of war.

I love food and hate to eat.

I try but i'm too damn lazy.

I cut corners that make the journey longer eventually.

I love the world and all its problems, because i'm part of it,
no one can take that away.

Dont let the masses influence your decision>>
Was it george harrison who said, "think for yourself"

The Corinthian

tigerlily wrote:

FYI Corinthian - i believe the negative stuff overwhelms the positive yes, and it can affect relationships in lots of ways,not just one.

Depends on who you are; some couples have no problem with swinging and others will fly into rages if one party so much as looks at another person. Horses for courses, TBH.

I can guarentee you i personally know women who feel the same way as i do- so i dont feel like an odditty sorry!

Oh, don’t mistake me; I don’t think you’re an oddity. I’ve had enough experience in women’s insecurities, and application thereof, to know that. I was simply pointing to the fact that you began this thread by attempting to morally justify your personal insecurities and so I do think that as a result you’d probably be a pain in the arse to be in a relationship with.