Cheapest non BEV Automatic Kona is 20K+ same like EV kona with similar mileage. I would compare Automatic non BEV vehicles to EVs as manual ICE cars are in different market segment.
January 2019 Kona for €15900 was a High mileage example. You would need to see vehicle and drive to compare. 2019 Kona with 157,000km would not be valued same money as one with 30,000km. So €20K+ would be a fair price point for 64kWh battery 2019 Kona with working AC, and replaced battery under recall.
my EV weighs a lot, the wheels are 21" (as was my old ICE car), i am on track to get around 2 years out of them or circa 30,000 km. I dont see a difference but i am comparing like with like on size at least.
I did not say I have an EV. I have nothing against EVs.
Your "Totally Incorrect" statement is i assume your own conclusion from your own EV experience vs a general all around statement of fact?
Re tyres - just from reading ( eg recent article on this in Irish times - paywall ) .. discussing pretty much this:
( The findings are based on data from e-commerce specialist epyx )
I have found .. especially from people who it is there first foray into EVs - that EV tyres are different from and more expensive than ICE tyres for these reasons:
"The cost of replacing EV tyres more frequently is exacerbated by the higher price of EV tyres due to reinforced sidewalls to deal with the extra weight of batteries, as well as special compounds for quieter driving and lower rolling resistance. Some EV tyres may even have reduced tread depths, which would also impact on the frequency of their replacement cycle."
Not advisable to use regular ICE tyres on an EV
An ev compared to a rattling stinking diesel junker, will be a massive upgrade in terms of drive. But yeah, I'd question any "savings" what is the motor tax rate on EV? E120?
in relation to the above avensis to kona change, if you paid interest on a loan, that has to be taken into account too...
It’s the same 204bhp motor that’s in the Niro and the ID4, ID3 etc
It feels quick if you’re not used to EV’s. The Leaf used to feel quick with its instant torque!
You did very well, you left someone else take the 20k depreciation and you got a brand new battery too in that Kona
Used EV's like that with a decent warranty are a good buy.
Kona EV is rapid too, test drove one once too and it moves for a small car
Ah but I wrote "The real green deal of course should be to persuade the public to give up their cars, whether EV or ICE."
Government and Greens are not quite the same thing are they. Presumably EV owners are partly persuaded by 'low emissions' motoring? If they are really concerned, they should give up personal transport vehicles altogether.
As for fuel taxes, they are putting them back on as quickly as they can.
We recently moved from a 20 year old Avensis ( 2l petrol ) as it was starting to give trouble / expensive to run. It said we were getting 7l/100k - moved to 4 yo Kona EV, so approx 16kw/100k. Doing approx 1000km / week and managing to charge primarily at energia 7.5c. 1000km = 49l = ~€80 per week vs 160kw = ~€12. With petrol savings & tax savings thats approx 4000 per annum. Kona cost 20k, got €750 for the avensis so should have paid off the purchase cost in approx 4 years. Will then have an 8 y.o kona which will hopefully keep going for another 10 years.
Just an enthusiast, not a dealer at all. Dealers make money 😁
Totally incorrect.
I got 40,034 km and 3.5 years from my tyres.
What car have you got and what size tyres are you replacing?
What size wheels have you got on the EV relative to the ICE you had?
Then, the age old advice, did you shop around for tyres or buy from a main dealer?
"I was always amazed that there were people out there who just changed their mind on a brand new car after a few weeks and were happy to take the hit, but it seems there were always a few"
Ireland is a very very very rich country. Something like €150bn in savings accounts of all sorts at the moment and rising. 300,000+ or so working in FDI, all well paid with serious pensions etc. Im not begrudging at all .. just saying when you do have lots of coin and are secure with same taking hits like that are a thing of nothing.
Yeah those Kona EV have depreciated like a rock, think I saw one posted for 16k on donedeal few weeks ago, were bones of 40k new, fine car for that price
Petrol is holding well, lowest price is 14k for 2019 ( 21k new )
2019 HYUNDAI KONA.. MANUAL.. WARRANTY INCLUDED.. for sale in Co. Dublin for €14,700 on DoneDeal
EV Kona lowest price 19k ( 40k new )
Hyundai kona electric 64kw high spec for sale in Co. Dublin for €18,950 on DoneDeal
Yeah. My father never bought a new car in his life. He drove plenty of cars with the current year number on the registration plate. (He had contacts in the car industry so he would buy the cars that others registered and didn't like so they traded them soon after)
He was driving top spec practically new cars that someone else took the biggest depreciation hit on.
I was always amazed that there were people out there who just changed their mind on a brand new car after a few weeks and were happy to take the hit, but it seems there were always a few
The Kona, for a petrol version it was 20k? I think. The inside is poor. The electric version was close to 40k, same interior. Now my parents picked up a nice one for 25k I think with minimal mileage on it but they got a brand new battery put into it so it made sense.
Anyone with any EV got roasted. How muhc was a diesel Tiguan compared to the ID.4?
Good point
When a car like a little Peugeot 208 came in EV form for 36k new alarm bells should have been ringing, only a few years back that car in a 1.2l petrol was 18k new
Anyone with a French EV are gonna get roasted depreciation wise
Your a car enthusiast or a wheeler dealer? That's a lot of changing
Yeah the EV market for a short time was like Bangernomics are now, value going up or holding very well, only difference was instead of playing market roulette with a 1k banger it was a 41k EV.
In terms of electric cars, does it make sense? I bought during the last crash in electric cars. Kept for years and then sold on during the boom.
Took a company car out then on 0% BIK and drive that for years, once it didn't make sense I bought it out and still have it today. It will be driven till the wheels fall off it, over 150k km so far.
I looked at a new Electric car and when I seen people paying over 40k for a Renault I knew it was totally ridiculous and left them at the show room.
Anyone who paid crazy money on an EV in the last few years must have been aware the depreciation was going to be huge on them.
If the government is using a stick to get people to buy EV's then why would they want to get them to give up those cars? and the taxes?
Didn't they cut taxes on combustion fuel for the last while?
Not sure you have thought out this entirely have you?
Diesels will be available to buy new till 2030, a diesel will be still running long past that
They will actually still be available to buy new until 2035, the EU over ruled the Irish government saying they were nor allowed to jump the gun. Even 2035 is open to question due to the German car industry using their political power in Germany to push this out further due to not being ready by 2035
5 year old necroposting. Niice. You're some mad lad anyway that's for sure.
Anyway, yeah I was more concerned about the depreciation and stuff then, as that €526 loan payment was a large part of my disposable income at the time and we were saving for a mortgage deposit. That was 2018 and my income has doubled since then, we've moved house and had 6 further EVs, of which 1 was a second Ioniq (!) and we still have 3 of the subsequently purchased EVs. Turned out I didnt lose money on the Ioniq in the end as I sold it for almost what I paid for it and it's in the hands of another boardsie as far as I know. As is my other Ioniq!
Well, we'll see - but it would be naïve to think that government policy won't use whatever stick it can in order to persuade the public in the new direction. They'll incentivise EVs whilst increasing cost of ownership/ running of petrol/ diesel. Of course, it'll be a balancing act too as they need to be mindful of how to recover motoring taxes from EVs.
The real green deal of course should be to persuade the public to give up their cars, whether EV or ICE.
Like this nugget?
EV cost savings - Page 4 — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'
Though I must say you were one of the sane posters, so fair play. Look at Kcross and Unkel on page 4 both laughably wrong, the reply to your depreciation question lol
ELM327
" the fact that the car is depreciating and I got a fright at the notion of trying to sell a 3yo Ioniq in 2 years with 120k on the clock "
KCross
"Shouldnt be a problem. As time moves on the used market for EV's is only going to get stronger, not weaker."
Unkel
"No need to worry there at all. Have you not noticed that a 7 year old Leaf is worth more now than it was 2 years ago when it was just 5 years old? EVs will keep their value well for years to come"
😂
If you want a new car, just go ahead and buy one, whether it is an EV or not. All of the calculations done in people's heads to justify it are mostly meaningless as there is always something you will miss along the way such as servicing, wear and tear, repairs out of warranty and so on.
Unless you are getting a new EV for free, it does not make much financial sense to switch from an ICE vehicle to "save money". Cars are depreciating assets and we are now seeing a correction of second hand values (and GFMV calculations) in the market after the craziness of post COVID prices and shortages of vehicles. When changing my car last time I actually "made" €2k on the price I had originally paid for my car against a trade in for an EV. Looking at it now, however, the price I paid for my EV has dropped by at least as much if not more so I have now effectively "lost" money. I did not change my car out of necessity but because I wanted a full EV. That was a choice. In the grand scheme of things, I would have been financially better off to the tune of about €10k by not changing.
The running costs for my EV, in terms of fuel, are practically zero (I can charge in work for free) but they were roughly the same with my previous car (a PHEV that I could also charge in work for free). Truth be told, and this will be controversial; I sometimes wish I had not changed from the PHEV as it was the best of both worlds for me. I don't like having to use public fast charging when I travel to the West of Ireland for family visits as it is usually either busy or busted and at least with the PHEV, I could just fill up with petrol and go (I usually make the return trip on the same day so destination charging is useless with a granny cable once I arrive). I will think very long and hard before replacing my current EV with another one and may even go back to a PHEV when the time comes.
I certainly will be under no illusions that I am saving money by buying one car over another. Everything has pros and cons and everyone's circumstances will be different... or, as has been said in countless vehicle ads in the last few years: YMMV! 🙂
i think every case is different.
in my case i have a large commute. i get free charging in work. my repayment on the car every month is less than my fuel bill was on my last car (2tdi skoda, no repayments owned car outright). not by a huge amount though.
also far less maintenance costs on the EV.
but my EV is more comfortable, nicer to drive, quieter.
so it made sense to change. but i dont think EV's make sense for everyone. if the taxman or work start charging for parking at work i will be straight back to a diesel.
Big wheels and heavier weight mean they are more expensive.
Because of the weight you need to have them inflated to a significantly higher pressure and if you are not on top of that they wear unevenly. The high torque off the line, while fun, is also hard on the tyres too.
Weight apparently. They are a bit dearer also I think. seems one gets less than a year in some cases ..
New ICE vs New EV will always save you money.
New EV vs Bangernomics ICE will not always. It did for me but I was doing 50k+ a year and the leaf I had at the time made it cheaper than doing the miles in a bangernomics diesel ran on agri and kero mix!
New ICE vs Used EV will save you money in the EV.
Used ICE vs New EV - this is where you may or may not save. Again, if you don't drive much and you buy a 5k prius vs a 50k BZ4X or something, it will take a long ass time if ever to recover the 45k delta.
why are tyres much more expensive? is it just that you have bigger wheels or is it something else?
I was always highly skeptical of that total cost of ownership argument that was prevalent here for ages, particularly in the original Hyundai Ionic era. It was only ever true when the market was not functioning properly and certainly isn't true now. People can tend to only look at the positives of their decision, I think to affirm that they were correct.
Old diesel has always been the king of economy and will remain so while EV fast charging remains expensive and range relatively limited.
I moved from old diesel to nearly new EV and the running costs savings that were often touted here have not materialised. Fuelling is, on average, half the cost of diesel and we haven't had need to service it yet. If it were ICE within a few months it would be over halfway to it's interval, whereas it's over a year and a half from it as an EV. Tyres are significantly more expensive and the extra over for them over ICE is pretty much is the cost of a service.
I decided to go EV for a number of reasons: 1. the diesel was getting on and a bill in excess of the cars value had to be coming soon - so the car had to be changed. 2. The EV driving experience is much nicer. 3. The market I believed was shifting to electric and there is a risk of having a stranded asset it 2-3 years time. I liked the idea of a day to day lower running cost too - I did think it would be significantly lower than it is though.
Many of those reasons remain valid of course, but I do wonder if the choice I've made will result in me ending up with the stranded asset now. I have budgeted for a further 50% depreciation but after VW have cut their prices I think that might be optimistic, will anyone pay €16k for a five year old ID4? Used 5yo Tiguans go for much more today and they start at a similar price point to ID4.
The Irish government has zero say over what cars the manufacturers make and push, the push from manufacturers has come in the last few years because they could make crazy margins on electric cars and people had no problem paying it.
Reducing speed limits has been going on in different ways since cars first came on the road. You might be surprised but a combustion car also performs a lot better at lower speeds.
Diesel and petrol will be gone off the roads if the manufacturers decide to stop making them, not a single word an irish government person says will change that.
