EV cost savings

listermint

unkel wrote: »

Which just about pays for buying the car, (let's say €500 - good luck with the longevity of that ) and buying oil and a filter and paying for your NCT + retest and very little else.

Indeed, make no hasty decision about what you do. And if you don't mind me asking, what figures were you expecting when you bought your Ioniq? With a loan (the interest on the loan is a very significant monthly cost)

ive had 3 old BMWs, i do all my own maintenance not once did i get away with Oil and Filters only and certainly not at that bangernomics age profile.

unkel

Lost count but I've had the guts of 10 BMWs, all older, several bought for as little as a few hundred quid. None of them gave any expensive trouble. All petrol though and I don't do 50k km per year...

listermint

unkel wrote: »

Lost count but I've had the guts of 10 BMWs, all older, several bought for as little as a few hundred quid. None of them gave any expensive trouble. All petrol though and I don't do 50k km per year...

Im talking oil leaks, Batteries, Ball joints Control Arms. Bushings, shocks, bearings, suspension all the crap that just goes on them. Its unavoidable at that mileage. And they arent even serious engine components to get into $$$ With my own labour

ELM327

listermint wrote: »

I can recommend method and madness single malt from Midleton. Fantastic stuff.


but thats for another thread

https://www.celticwhiskeyshop.com/Method-Madness-Single-Malt
Never had it/heard of it. Malt and biscuit. Sounds calming!

unkel wrote: »

Which just about pays for buying the car, (let's say €800 - good luck with the longevity of that ) and buying oil and a filter and paying for your NCT + retest and very little else.

Indeed, make no hasty decision about what you do. And if you don't mind me asking, what figures were you expecting when you bought your Ioniq? With a loan (the interest on the loan is a very significant monthly cost)

Yeah that was my point really, 1200 per year in the difference. Not so much.

The repayment figure I knew was 526, knew it before I got the Ioniq.
It's more the frustration at charging, the fact that the car is depreciating and I got a fright at the notion of trying to sell a 3yo Ioniq in 2 years with 120k on the clock, when the model 3 etc are out and no one wants the Ioniq.

listermint

ELM327 wrote: »

https://www.celticwhiskeyshop.com/Method-Madness-Single-Malt
Never had it/heard of it. Malt and biscuit. Sounds calming!


Yeah that was my point really, 1200 per year in the difference. Not so much.

The repayment figure I knew was 526, knew it before I got the Ioniq.
It's more the frustration at charging, the fact that the car is depreciating and I got a fright at the notion of trying to sell a 3yo Ioniq in 2 years with 120k on the clock, when the model 3 etc are out and no one wants the Ioniq.

Yes had it in a Bar in Wexford a few weeks ago. It was an interesting bottle never seen it before. New. Delicious too.


i think the home charging has been a sore point for you. I do believe that if you had it, you wouldnt be having these thoughts ultimately it comes down to convenience. ?

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

It's more the frustration at charging,

Thats your problem. Forget about moving the Ioniq on. Get yourself sorted with a home charger and that problem goes away. Even if it does cost you €1200... its better than ongoing frustration and still cheaper than going back to ICE.

ELM327 wrote: »

the fact that the car is depreciating and I got a fright at the notion of trying to sell a 3yo Ioniq in 2 years with 120k on the clock,

Shouldnt be a problem. As time moves on the used market for EV's is only going to get stronger, not weaker.

ELM327 wrote: »

when the model 3 etc are out and no one wants the Ioniq.

Thats a bit of a leap.... you think a €28k Ioniq is competing with a €40k+ Model 3?!

Haven't you been telling us all along that the Ioniq is the best EV on the market!
Its even more efficient than the Model 3 so I cant see why its all of a sudden going to become undesirable.


You've over thought the whole thing, imo.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

I got a fright at the notion of trying to sell a 3yo Ioniq in 2 years with 120k on the clock, when the model 3 etc are out and no one wants the Ioniq.

No need to worry there at all. Have you not noticed that a 7 year old Leaf is worth more now than it was 2 years ago when it was just 5 years old? EVs will keep their value well for years to come

That said buying a new EV from a dealer and selling it privately 6 months later with 25k on it and you will take a significant hit. Even with Ioniq...

grogi

ELM327 wrote: »

So how would you calculate based on the cashflow outgoings above, a monthly cost figure? (genuine question)

I already did that in post #67.

But let me show it in details.

January 2018:
Car worth €27000k
Loan outstanding €25000k
Cash in bank €10000

If you decided to sell immediately, you'd have €12000 cash after clearing your dept.


Februrary 2018:
Car worth €26800k (depreciation €200)
Loan payment: €400
Interest payment €80
Load outstanding: €24600
Cash in bank €9520

Now, if you decided to sell in February, you would have €11720 in cash after clearing your dept. It costed you €280 euro to have it for a month - €200 was depreciation, €80 the interest you paid.


March 2018:
Car worth €26600k (depreciation of further €200)
Loan payment: €401
Interest payment €79
Load outstanding: €24199
Cash in bank €9040

Now, if you decided to sell in March, you would have €11441 in cash after clearing your dept. It costed you €559 euro to have it for a two months (€280 for the first one, €279 for the second) - €400 was depreciation, €159 the interest you paid.



April 2018:
Car worth €26400k (depreciation of further €200)
Loan payment: €4199 (massive overpayment - for demostration)
Interest payment €78
Load outstanding: €20000
Cash in bank €4763

If you sold in April, you'd end up with €11163 in cash. So the cost over three months was €837 - €600 depreciation, €80+€79+€78 interest. Regardless how much you pay towards the loan.


As you can see, you are burning through your cash - but it is not really the cost.

oinkely

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Three in the back of the i3 is a tighter squeeze than the avensis tbf. Its hard to justify your statement though that you are making savings when the i3 is losing about €10k/year in depreciation. Yes it's a different level of luxury but it isn't costing you less.

The takeaway point though at the moment is that the cheapest form of motoring is still bangernomics, and will remain that way for a little while longer, a year or two at least.

For me, the leaf is cheaper than bangernomics. Last leaf was bought with cash, so no loan or depreciation costs, driven for 10k km which is a saving of 900 euro in fuel over driving my van. This paid for the annual tax and insurance on the leaf, with money left over. I then sold the leaf for what I had paid for it. I cannot see any cheaper way of getting to work for 5 months.

Currently driving another leaF and looking at prices on donedeal etc I stand to make a small profit when I put this one up for sale, again after 10k km. Again, the 10 k km would have cost a minimum of 1000 euro in the van in fuel and servicing. So in this case, given that the insurance cost was covered by the savings on the last one I will be at least 1000 euro better off having driven the leaf to work instead of the van.

Not to mention the ease of driving the leaf in traffic Vs the manual van. That it is 11 years newer, that it is preheated in winter. That it is silent, faster and an all round superior driving experience.

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

Thats your problem. Forget about moving the Ioniq on. Get yourself sorted with a home charger and that problem goes away. Even if it does cost you €1200... its better than ongoing frustration and still cheaper than going back to ICE.

....
You've over thought the whole thing, imo.

listermint wrote: »

...
i think the home charging has been a sore point for you. I do believe that if you had it, you wouldnt be having these thoughts ultimately it comes down to convenience. ?

I think there's something in the above posts. My problem is that to know if the home charger makes it better I need to pay €1200-€1600 to get it installed.


On reflection I think there may be some truth in the above . I do think I'm overthinking too much on the monthly outgoings being higher than my fuel costs before but that's not seeing the full picture.

unkel

Is it really €1200-€1600 to get it installed?

I presume you do qualify for the €600 subsidy? Get a second hand 32A EVSE for about €250, buy the materials (6mm2 or 10mm2 cable, ducting, 40A RCBO) yourself for about €200, then maybe €600 labour for a complex install. That's €1050. Minus €600 subsidy that's a net cost to you of €450

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

Is it really €1200-€1600 to get it installed?

I presume you do qualify for the €600 subsidy? Get a second hand 32A EVSE for about €250, buy the materials (6mm2 or 10mm2 cable, ducting, 40A RCBO) yourself for about €200, then maybe €600 labour for a complex install. That's €1050. Minus €600 subsidy that's a net cost to you of €450

Yes I have the grant letter in hand and approved.
Unfortunately it needs to be dug in, as a pedestal, as there is a public path between my door and the parking spot. I see the user "liammog" had a similar install done and was quoted 1500-2000 for the install so I'm happy that the quote I received is pretty good. I should add that the figure I mentioned for me was gross, ie the amount I will have to pay will be €600 less with the grant



I'm not going to buy the materials etc, You wouldnt go to a mechanic with your own oil and filters and brake pads etc, so I won't tell the installer what he needs


It's Nigel Daly I'm going to be using, he's already been out to the apartment and thats how I got the quote. He's had to order my charger in as he didnt have a tethered unit in stock. (went for tethered as otherwise someone could unplug at the charger end if I was plugged in, not charging, waiting on timer).


Thanks to those who contributed on this thread, it really helped me realign my figures from cashflow to TCO allowing depreciation and loan interest but not the loan capital repayment as expenses.


Boards can be a great place sometimes, now can't we all just get along the rest of the time :D:)

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

It's Nigel Daly I'm going to be using, he's already been out to the apartment and thats how I got the quote.

He's good, he's done probably over 1000 installs in this country. I'm sure he'll do a great job for you. That said he is also very expensive.

liamog

Mine came to €1300 no grant, but I was able to do a part exchange for the free eCars charger.


Officially your not eligible for the grant so well done on getting that past them

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

Mine came to €1300 no grant, but I was able to do a part exchange for the free eCars charger.


Officially your not eligible for the grant so well done on getting that past them

Well I have read the criteria and I don't believe it doesnt pass any of them - The car park spot is right at my front door and is part of the property of the apartment (the access to it, same as the leasehold part of the property).


Who told you you were not eligible?

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

Well I have read the criteria and I don't believe it doesnt pass any of them - The car park spot is right at my front door and is part of the property of the apartment (the access to it, same as the leasehold part of the property).


Who told you you were not eligible?

The criteria that you could fall foul of is this one...

"The EV must be parked on an off-street parking location associated with the home and the charger must be connected back to the fuse board of the home of the applicant."

If your parking space is at your front door and there is no "public" element to the space between your front door and your car then I suppose you are good.

If you are crossing public footpaths or public kerbs etc then obviously the SEAI dont want to complicate their grant system by having to deal with local authorities.

I'd imagine though, inside a secured apartment complex the entire area is considered "private" and so you would be fine other than convincing the building management to let you proceed.

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

The criteria that you could fall foul of is this one...

"The EV must be parked on an off-street parking location associated with the home and the charger must be connected back to the fuse board of the home of the applicant."

If your parking space is at your front door and there is no "public" element to the space between your front door and your car then I suppose you are good.

If you are crossing public footpaths or public kerbs etc then obviously the SEAI dont want to complicate their grant system by having to deal with local authorities.

I'd imagine though, inside a secured apartment complex the entire area is considered "private" and so you would be fine other than convincing the building management to let you proceed.

Yes it's a privately owned carpark , my spot is at the front door and between the wall of the property and the spot is a paved path. The path is management company property so not public. This is what I believe allows me to continue to get the grant. I have already cleared it and have email from management company agreeing, once I will be able to restore the parking spot to current state if/when I sell the property.
I have been approved for the grant and the installer after visiting the site agreed with me that it was qualified for the grant (I know he could be biased but I've seen only good reviews for him online)

liamog

Yeah that was my reasoning, it's private on-street parking so strictly speaking not eligible. Glad to see common sense is prevailing though.

The installation is more expensive, so the grant is more important.

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

Yeah that was my reasoning, it's private on-street parking so strictly speaking not eligible. Glad to see common sense is prevailing though.

The installation is more expensive, so the grant is more important.

Agreed. At the end of the day €600 isnt a make or break cost factor, this needs to be installed anyway, but it'd be nicer in my pocket than not :cool:




Mine isnt private on street parking though, it's private off street parking. I'm not parking "on the street", if you get me, it's a segregated private complex, there is no street, unless you count the main street outside the complex?

I'll let you know if I get it anyway or not. Have contacted Nigel again today to see what the story is regarding my install. Has to happen this month anyway.