Is an electric an option

Shefwedfan

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Sure it could go to zero if you abuse the public charging network. 160km is still a little tight on the range even for the Ioniq, with not much of a comfort buffer.

The OP is clearly cost conscious, recommending a brand new car is hardly a way to save money. He spends 3K in diesel per year yet you're recommending a car that will depreciate by €15k over three years?!

Unless the OP has work charging or an appetite for depreciation there is little to be gained yet in moving to EV. All cost savings will be gobbled up by depreciation. The most cost effective thing to do would be to hold onto the current car unless it's failing. Maybe in 2 years look at a used Ioniq and if he's comfortable commuting essentially with the fuel light on for 2/3 of the time.

A little tight? If I drive conservative in the eGolf I would get 160km. There is another drive in eGolf in Ireland and he is getting 12kWh per 100km and get close to 200km per day.

That is real World numbers. I asked for a guide on Ioniq thread and everyone is above 200km.

For a start depreciation is not that high. Based on the current market and changes to laws over the coming years the depreciation on diesel/petrol might be higher. I don't know and I can tell for certain you don't know.

I think everyone that owns an electric car will say the plan is drive it into the ground, make a good saving and then start again. Something which is not really an option with a petrol/diesel car as it will cost you a small fortune in maintenance.

In the 2 years you talk about the OP will have paid over 13k on fuel alone. Plus all the other bills on top of that. How does it not make sense to look at alternative?

Your point about driving with fuel light on is just idiotic.

freddie1970

I made a mistake my round trip is only 115km
..i reckon most ev would be ok for that am i right ?

oppenheimer1

freddie1970 wrote: »

I made a mistake my round trip is only 115km
..i reckon most ev would be ok for that am i right ?

30kwh leaf would be a good option so. Plenty available in the UK for a good price.

You are spending a lot on diesel and getting poor mileage. I wouldn't put more than €50 p/w to get 700km. Is there something with your current vehicle?

freddie1970

I travel in and out nearly 7 days a week ..and also do more driving about town so it adds up

bk

freddie1970, The Hyundai Ioniq and 30kwh Leaf will all easily do your commute so.

Worth checking them out and taking them for a test drive.

unkel

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The OP is clearly cost conscious, recommending a brand new car is hardly a way to save money. He spends 3K in diesel per year yet you're recommending a car that will depreciate by €15k over three years?!

I hope you are trolling. The alternative is that you must be unable to do some very basic sums. First of all he said he spends €130 on diesel a week, so €6.5k per year, not €3k

You reckon you will be able to buy a 171 Ioniq for €10k in January 2020? That's just ridiculous, it will not happen. Want to still put money where your mouth is and bet money on it? Bet you won't

But I'll indulge you. €5k saving in fuel a year if he buys an Ioniq. And €5k depreciation per year. Even if his current car is a zero value banger with no depreciation, the Ioniq will have further savings on maintenance, tax and insurance, more than offsetting the tiny opportunity costs of money of buying a new car (might even get 0% finance)

So it is cheaper for him, total cost of ownership, to go out and buy a brand new Ioniq than to keep driving his old car.

And if he keeps the car for longer than 3 years, the savings are significantly greater again.

Wait until the new leaf is revealed on the 6th of September and that will be the one to get.

I have a 2015 Leaf 24 Kwh and work charging and a 142 Km commute total, I get to work and back with between with about 25-40% and home roughly the same and that's driving up to 130 Kph.

Work charging gives you a lot of options but the New leaf if buying new is definitely going to be the one to get.

I will never advise anyone to rely on public charging for any commute after having to rely on the network for 9 months before I got work charging.

I'm on PCP so depreciation is of little concern to me because the GFMV is the balloon payment is 12,500 and if it's worth less than that it's RCI Banque's problem not mine, If Its worth less I can renegotiate a cheaper lease for another year or offer to buy it for less than the GFMV or they can have it or hop into a new car.

PCP means you pay the depreciation + interest for the agreed term. PCP deals on the current leaf are not so good now though but still offers a cheap low interest alternative to regular finance.

Shefwedfan

freddie1970 wrote: »

I made a mistake my round trip is only 115km
..i reckon most ev would be ok for that am i right ?

As mentioned the eGolf I have is 26kWh battery and I easily do 150km with a heavy foot.

The Leaf 30kw and Ioniq would have further range so both give you that extra distance.

I am not sure about standard Leaf 1.5 version, I would think it would be ok as well. I can't remember what I got out of demo version but I would have done at least 120km per day on testing

Soarer

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

30kwh leaf would be a good option so. Plenty available in the UK for a good price.

You are spending a lot on diesel and getting poor mileage. I wouldn't put more than €50 p/w to get 700km. Is there something with your current vehicle?

Didn't you previously say you get discounted company diesel, or something along those lines?

So your 700km for €50 is irrelevant.

Don't oversell your car.

oppenheimer1

unkel wrote: »

I hope you are trolling. The alternative is that you must be unable to do some very basic sums. First of all he said he spends €130 on diesel a week, so €6.5k per year, not €3k

You reckon you will be able to buy a 171 Ioniq for €10k in January 2020? That's just ridiculous, it will not happen. Want to still put money where your mouth is and bet money on it? Bet you won't

But I'll indulge you. €5k saving in fuel a year if he buys an Ioniq. And €5k depreciation per year. Even if his current car is a zero value banger with no depreciation, the Ioniq will have further savings on maintenance, tax and insurance, more than offsetting the tiny opportunity costs of money of buying a new car (might even get 0% finance)

So it is cheaper for him, total cost of ownership, to go out and buy a brand new Ioniq than to keep driving his old car.

And if he keeps the car for longer than 3 years, the savings are significantly greater again.

Bets, oh please, :rolleyes:

Based on the information in the OP and on my own ordinary mixed urban/motorway consumption figures of 1200-1400km/70l tank I had assumed that the fuel totals the OP gave were combined for both. Swapping out one car for electric will only see the diesel bill fall by half.

If I've misunderstood, and the couple's combined bill is €1000/month for fuel then yes that changes the maths considerably. I'd be interested though in why the OP's car consumes so much diesel, but he knows his figures best and I won't question that. If it's the case that the OP and his partner are both spending 500p/m on diesel then it's a rather unique case where a new car (Ioniq) would be cost neutral. I still think it would have been a little tight on range, getting tighter as it gets older at 160km/day.

In any case the OP is well inside 30kwh leaf territory, with his revised 115km/day. If it's a case of saving €500/mo by making the change it's a no brainier - although it's a shame the leaf is such an unappealing car. So rather than it being a cost neutral exercise, with a second hand leaf he will actually see savings accumulate rather than disappearing down a depreciation drain.

oppenheimer1

Soarer wrote: »

Didn't you previously say you get discounted company diesel, or something along those lines?

So your 700km for €50 is irrelevant.

Don't oversell your car.

I do, you've a good memory. But I also know diesel retails at about 120c/l today and I get between 1200 and 1400km for a 70l tank, so my worst case is just over 700km for €50.

I would never oversell my car.

freddie1970

I personally spend about 70 a week on diesel my missus spends anothet 70.she isnt considering a ev yet ..
So it would be only a 70 a week saving ...
What about a ioniq on pcp would i be penalised for high milage ...
Has anyone driven one are they a nice car to drive compared to a diesel

Soarer

freddie1970 wrote: »

I personally spend about 70 a week on diesel my missus spends anothet 70.she isnt considering a ev yet ..
So it would be only a 70 a week saving ...
What about a ioniq on pcp would i be penalised for high milage ...
Has anyone driven one are they a nice car to drive compared to a diesel

A few things freddie.
Most of us on here that have replied to you (me, ELM327, mad_lad, Mel.b, Unkel, Kross, ShefWedFan, can't remember others) are all EV owners.
Unkel has an Ioniq.
ShefWedFan has an egolf.
Everyone else listed has varying Leafs. Mine is a 75% capacity 24kWh version, all the way up to Mel.b and her near new 30kWh version.
We all have real world experience of EV ownership, and there's not one person here will put you wrong.

Converse to that, there's oppenheimer.
This chap agrees that EVs are the future, but staunchly believes they've no use today. You can go back through all of his posts, not just on this thread, and you'll see he's always on one side of the fence arguing against EV owners, when he's never even had a test drive in one (I could be wronging him there).
He's perfectly entitled to his opinion on here just like everyone else, and you're perfectly entitled to believe everything he posts.

Just thought I'd give you some background.

As for your Ioniq question...
There are a few owners on here. Unkel being one. He'll try convince you its a cut price Tesla!;)
They'll all tell you that the Ioniq will do 180kms @ 120kmh on the motorway. That's owners experience. Not an opinion.

As for PCP, you'll only get punished if you plan on handing the car back. If you plan on keeping it, the mileage is irrelevant. Think mad_lad would be the PCP guru.

Definitely wait a few weeks to see what the new Leaf brings. But with your new 115km round trip, you'd probably make that in a 24kwh Leaf.
WE JUST NEED TO KNOW WHAT SORT OF ROAD YOU'RE DRIVING ON!

650Ginge

unkel wrote: »

I hope you are trolling. The alternative is that you must be unable to do some very basic sums. First of all he said he spends €130 on diesel a week, so €6.5k per year, not €3k

You reckon you will be able to buy a 171 Ioniq for €10k in January 2020? That's just ridiculous, it will not happen. Want to still put money where your mouth is and bet money on it? Bet you won't

But I'll indulge you. €5k saving in fuel a year if he buys an Ioniq. And €5k depreciation per year. Even if his current car is a zero value banger with no depreciation, the Ioniq will have further savings on maintenance, tax and insurance, more than offsetting the tiny opportunity costs of money of buying a new car (might even get 0% finance)

So it is cheaper for him, total cost of ownership, to go out and buy a brand new Ioniq than to keep driving his old car.

And if he keeps the car for longer than 3 years, the savings are significantly greater again.

To be fair the op can't count either. €130 a week....is probably equivalent to btween 80000 and more than 100000kms a year.

But opeinhiemer has been tolling a while.

Op you need to get you figures right on km per years and cost so these guys can give you a good strong financial based reply.

unkel

Soarer wrote: »

He'll try convince you its a cut price Tesla!;)QUOTE]

Poor man's Tesla

Soarer

650Ginge wrote: »

To be fair the op can't count either. €130 a week....is probably equivalent to btween 80000 and more than 100000kms a year.

Or maybe people don't understand!

The OP and his partner spend €130 per week between them.
The OP does 115km roundtrip pretty much 7 days per week. Even averaging 6 days per week, that's still 36k kms per year just going to work. Surely he'd do another 4k kms per year faffing around, which brings him up to 40k kms per year.
His partner does 160kms per day for work. Average that at 5 days per week, and that's over 41k kms per year with no faffing around.
So that's 81k kms per year between them.

I reckon the OP is well able to count.

650Ginge

freddie1970 wrote: »

Hi ..im presently doing a 140km round trip to work everyday and my partner 160km we are both spending 130 a week on diesel over 500 a month ..im just wondering would electric car be viable in our case.and would they represent much of a saving ..with the distance we travel we would have to insure that they could do over 160 with out charging

Soarer wrote: »

Or maybe people don't understand!

The OP and his partner spend €130 per week between them.
The OP does 115km roundtrip pretty much 7 days per week. Even averaging 6 days per week, that's still 36k kms per year just going to work. Surely he'd do another 4k kms per year faffing around, which brings him up to 40k kms per year.
His partner does 160kms per day for work. Average that at 5 days per week, and that's over 41k kms per year with no faffing around.
So that's 81k kms per year between them.

I reckon the OP is well able to count.

Soarer I have no gripe with electric cars, but I don't have one, so I am not getting into the cost of them. I will leave that to those that do. But the OP's post above is ambiguous at least to me.

In any case he chopped quite a bit off the kms in a later post. I think to get the best answer there must be reality in the figures....recording the real figures will give a much better answer to the prospective EV buyer than this guess work.

Perhaps together we could all work on a spreadsheet that will work out the cost of an EV versus ICE. Whilst that will not stop incorrect and over inflated figures being put in it will allow people who are accurate to get an accurate answer.

I am sure some of you already have such a spreadsheet and maybe we could make it public on google sheets.

Soarer

I'm not getting into EV ownership either.

You commented that the OP couldn't count and used figures to back that up.
I used the OP's updated/reduced mileage figures to confirm you figures, which also confirmed the OP can count.

650Ginge

Soarer wrote: »

I'm not getting into EV ownership either.

You commented that the OP couldn't count and used figures to back that up.
I used the OP's updated/reduced mileage figures to confirm you figures, which also confirmed the OP can count.

Yeah whatever Soarer....YOU ARE RIGHT....ALWAYS.

ELM327

650Ginge wrote: »

Soarer I have no gripe with electric cars, but I don't have one, so I am not getting into the cost of them. I will leave that to those that do. But the OP's post above is ambiguous at least to me.

In any case he chopped quite a bit off the kms in a later post. I think to get the best answer there must be reality in the figures....recording the real figures will give a much better answer to the prospective EV buyer than this guess work.

Perhaps together we could all work on a spreadsheet that will work out the cost of an EV versus ICE. Whilst that will not stop incorrect and over inflated figures being put in it will allow people who are accurate to get an accurate answer.

I am sure some of you already have such a spreadsheet and maybe we could make it public on google sheets.

I attempted it on this thread, but I double counted depreciation and loan repayments, where there should be an offset to include for built up equity - which is possibly over 2k in my case.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=104085452

Soarer

650Ginge wrote: »

Yeah whatever Soarer....YOU ARE RIGHT....ALWAYS.

Now that we agree on that, we can move on.

pwurple

OP, check with the dealerships, but when I was buying mine, we arranged a "24 hr test drive" of their demo car over a bank holiday weekend with them. Picked it up on a Friday, and dropped it back Tuesday.

This may still be available. It was very useful for us. Came with a number to call for pick-up if we got stranded.

That way we had a decent go at real world testing the car for our use cases. It's a big outlay, we wanted to be 100% sure it fit our family, and our commute even though we had it on paper that it would.

ei9go

Soarer wrote: »

A few things freddie.
Most of us on here that have replied to you (me, ELM327, mad_lad, Mel.b, Unkel, Kross, ShefWedFan, can't remember others) are all EV owners.
Unkel has an Ioniq.
ShefWedFan has an egolf.
Everyone else listed has varying Leafs. Mine is a 75% capacity 24kWh version, all the way up to Mel.b and her near new 30kWh version.
We all have real world experience of EV ownership, and there's not one person here will put you wrong.

Converse to that, there's oppenheimer.
This chap agrees that EVs are the future, but staunchly believes they've no use today. You can go back through all of his posts, not just on this thread, and you'll see he's always on one side of the fence arguing against EV owners, when he's never even had a test drive in one (I could be wronging him there).
He's perfectly entitled to his opinion on here just like everyone else, and you're perfectly entitled to believe everything he posts.

Just thought I'd give you some background.

As for your Ioniq question...
There are a few owners on here. Unkel being one. He'll try convince you its a cut price Tesla!;)
They'll all tell you that the Ioniq will do 180kms @ 120kmh on the motorway. That's owners experience. Not an opinion.

As for PCP, you'll only get punished if you plan on handing the car back. If you plan on keeping it, the mileage is irrelevant. Think mad_lad would be the PCP guru.

Definitely wait a few weeks to see what the new Leaf brings. But with your new 115km round trip, you'd probably make that in a 24kwh Leaf.
WE JUST NEED TO KNOW WHAT SORT OF ROAD YOU'RE DRIVING ON!

I have a 22 kW Zoe and would not consider a 115km commute in winter in it.

KCross

650Ginge wrote: »

Perhaps together we could all work on a spreadsheet that will work out the cost of an EV versus ICE. Whilst that will not stop incorrect and over inflated figures being put in it will allow people who are accurate to get an accurate answer.

I am sure some of you already have such a spreadsheet and maybe we could make it public on google sheets.

I did it here. People can change the figures to suit their circumstances
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102413296&postcount=21

freddie1970

Just to confirm i have a choice of backroads and the motorway i generally will use back roads as there are 2 tolls on m3 coming to 5.60 a day 😦
I put in about 65 or 70 a week but im in and out everyday and more besides ..my car is over 11 years old so probably not as economical ...
Yeah id say pcp would penalise me badly for milage ..my best option would be a second hand leaf but i think they are very small looking

unkel

Backroads help, but I would still go for a 30kW Leaf. You can get a 2016 landed from the UK from about €17k (new Ioniq is €25k but they are hard to get)

You will struggle in winter with a 24kW Leaf. I wouldn't go there. Leaf is not that small, do you need boot space or do you have kids? Go test drive one! And an Ioniq (one size bigger on the inside, but not a great boot either)

bk

freddie1970 wrote: »

Just to confirm i have a choice of backroads and the motorway i generally will use back roads as there are 2 tolls on m3 coming to 5.60 a day ��
I put in about 65 or 70 a week but im in and out everyday and more besides ..my car is over 11 years old so probably not as economical ...
Yeah id say pcp would penalise me badly for milage ..my best option would be a second hand leaf but i think they are very small looking

Based on those figures, you are currently paying €3,640 or there about on Diesel a year.

As a rule of thumb, we generally say it would cost about 1/10th the cost of Diesel for electricity (night rate at home) for the same milage. So you would be only paying about €360 for electricity.

That would be about a €3,300 saving a year. That could go a long way to a very nice new car. Plus savings of another €600 or so on road tax.

Plus I assume a 11 year old car has significant maintenance costs.

BTW You should take a Leaf for a test drive. They are a bit deceiving, they are much more roomy inside then they look outside.

Also worth considering an Ioniq. I know not an option second hand. But with a cheaper PCP interest rate * and with the above savings, you could end up getting yourself a very nice brand new car, for very little more then second hand.

* Just don't forget to save towards the final balloon payment.

Once you have the car paid off, you will be saving large amounts for years to come.

KCross

bk wrote: »

As a rule of thumb, we generally say it would cost about 1/10th the cost of Diesel for electricity (night rate at home) for the same milage. So you would be only paying about €360 for electricity.

Its closer to 20% than 10%... just being pedantic!


Diesel 1.20/lt @ an example of 50mpg --> 5.65l/100km = €6.78

Electricity 7c/kWh @ an example 15kWh/100km(inc charger losses) for Ioniq = €1.05
Its likely to be closer to 18kWh/100km for a Leaf --> €1.26

bk

KCross wrote: »

Its closer to 20% than 10%... just being pedantic!


Diesel 1.20/lt @ an example of 50mpg --> 5.65l/100km = €6.78

Electricity 7c/kWh @ an example 15kWh/100km(inc charger losses) for Ioniq = €1.05
Its likely to be closer to 18kWh/100km for a Leaf --> €1.26

Yup, though that is a pretty modern efficient Diesel compared to what it sounds like the OP has, a 11 year old car. And he doesn't say it, but I suspect closer to a 2.0l then a 1.2l

Also he mentions mostly driving back roads, so in an Ioniq I'd say more like 12 to 13kWh/100km due to generally lower speeds.

So the numbers compared to his current car I'd say would be closer to 10%. But yes, somewhere in the 10 to 20% range. And of course that assumes he doesn't do any free public charging.

KCross

bk wrote: »

Yup, though that is a pretty modern efficient Diesel compared to what it sounds like the OP has, a 11 year old car. And he doesn't say it, but I suspect closer to a 2.0l then a 1.2l

Also he mentions mostly driving back roads, so in an Ioniq I'd say more like 12 to 13kWh/100km due to generally lower speeds.

So the numbers compared to his current car I'd say would be closer to 10%. But yes, somewhere in the 10 to 20% range. And of course that assumes he doesn't do any free public charging.

I think most diesels (even 10yr old ones) would be getting close to 50mpg on a long commute like that. Of course he could be driving a dog of a thing getting 40mpg too but just from a "rule of thumb" point of view I think 20% is closer to the mark for most people. 10% is more like best case than rule of thumb.

We won't argue too much over 10, 15 or 20%... its a shed load of money for the OP either way!