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FI Charts ( T120+ onwards) Summer 2022 **READ MOD NOTE IN FIRST POST**

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Bemused at the 12zGFS - seems to have pushed back the HP another 24hrs to 36hrs.

    Met Eireann says 3.5mm of rain for here in south Laois between now and lunchtime Saturday 27th, yet GFS says 23mm, GEM says 32mm, ECM says 7mm.

    Models are all over the place!



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,738 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    The HP has been getting downgraded and pushed back for the past few days. It was originally supposed to become warm and settled on Monday, then Tuesday, yesterday it was Wednesday and now it's looking like all of next week will now be unsettled with things not settling down until the the final days of August with temperatures not that far from what we have right now. It could be September before this HP gets going and if it does get going it is likely to not last more than a few days at most as there is definite support for an unsettled and wetter than average September.

    Just another 12 days and we flip into Autumn, once that happens I take off my sunglasses and start focusing on the winter.

    Post edited by Gonzo on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭esposito


    To be honest I’m not that bothered what happens in the next few weeks as I’ll be back to work end of August. ( I know a good few people take holidays in September as well so they’ll be very interested to see what transpires).

    We got a nice hot plume in July albeit very brief and then that glorious week of v warm/hot sunny weather last week. I’m quite satisfied with the summer of 2022. And August finally delivered!



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,738 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    I would like at least one more sunny week with warm temperatures just as long as it doesnt roll into the second half of September. I'd like autumn to begin properly around the 2nd week of September.

    GFS 6z rolling out and it stays largely unsettled to the 30th of August and temperatures only begin to reach 21C around the 1st of September. The low pressure that we are currently under is going to cycle around us for the next 10 days.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,738 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    GFS 6z finishes with a rather artic looking blast about to take place.




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,297 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    I'll be in lanzarote for the second half of September so I approve this message.

    A nice south westerly pattern for Ireland tends to mean peak weather pattern for the canaries.



  • Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭Cumhachtach


    GFS in 6 days time hopeful. Models are not consistent so I'm not reading too much into beyond 4 days.




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,738 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    GFS 18z showing some fairly warm conditions to build again from this weekend after a fairly cool day on Friday. Temperatures possibly getting into the mid twenties again across Munster, Leinster, mid western areas and low twenties across the northwest during the early days of next week.

    Bring it on, a possible 3 to 4 day blast of late summer warmth.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,564 ✭✭✭giveitholly


    I thought the Atlantic was coming back into force like something we haven't seen since February?



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,738 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    The GFS has been showing that for the past week and on last nights pub run it gets going again after the above warm few days but as always it's FI and a full week away so i've been banking on downgrades to this scenario over the next week.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,738 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Just checking the 00z now and the GFS seems to be backing off the Atlantic onslaught alot. One of the main drivers for this big flip with the GFS on the very unsettled September charts is the MJO which is promoting high pressure for our region during early to mid September. This MJO also helped with forecasting the recent heatwave and the July heat spike which showed up on the models well out in to FI.

    A fairly big shift in the GFS ensembles as well towards high and dry for the first half of September on the 00z. Once again it looks like the unsettled Atlantic forecast could be a complete and utter bust with very dry conditions to continue for the forseeable future and temperatures staying above normal through September. As we're still in August it's a bit early to tell how all of September will shape up but if this September was to run similar to September 2021 that would not bode well for Winter 2022/2023.

    Will the 06z and 12z revert back to the unsettled and cooler September scenario or will we continue with the high pressure fest?




  • Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭Cumhachtach


    On the warm dry September usually resulting in a mild winter Gonzo. Has that been proven statistically over a long period of time? Off the top of my head September 1985 was warm, and followed by a cold winter, particularly February 1986.

    I know yourself or Sryan will have work done on it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    If we get a substantially dry and mild to warm September, I feel our winter pattern will resemble our summer pattern this year...

    Unsettled and mild first half, settled second half. But will that second half be a mild settled or a cold settled?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,530 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    I did an analysis on it last year using Phoenix Park data since the 19th century and I just refuse to believe the mean temperature of a single individual month has any bearing on a succeeding whole season like it's just silly. There was very little difference between the top 25 warmest Septembers and coldest Septembers with the coldest winters tending to fall in the middle but for all we know, it could just be statistical coincidence or noise. I have yet to see a scientific reason why one would think this.

    Unfortunately, due to 2021-22 being among the mildest winters on record and September 2021 being the warmest on record at Phoenix Park, this "theory" lives on in the minds of people.

    Here is the analysis for your own leisure: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117939624#Comment_117939624

    Admittedly, a scatter plot would have been better to present the data rather than a line graph.

    1985 as you say was a warm September but in terms of the Central England Temperature that most base this theory off of, it was nothing exceptional unlike 1898, 1949, 2006, 2016, 2021 etc. Of which all the winters that followed were either mild or very mild.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Just to add, there is nothing scientific about the above Winter 22-23 thoughts, just my present gut feeling!!!



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,738 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    GFS 6z doubles down on high pressure even further with temperatures into the low twenties all the way to September 7th and little to no rainfall in most areas over the next 16 days. Lets see what the 12z brings. A huge difference on what the GFS has been showing for the past week.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Good to see the turnaround! Although some rain would be welcome.

    Is this weekend still a write off?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,738 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Weekend looks mostly dry across the east, south and midlands, maybe the odd isolated light shower. A bit more rain towards the north-west but nothing heavy, just annoying light rain or showers hugging north-western areas.

    Rainfall over the next 10 days looks very light away from western and north-western coasts.




  • Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭Cumhachtach




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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno



    Today's 12Z and this evening's 18Z for next Thursday at 10pm...

    That low over Iceland is getting obliterated! High pressure firmly taking over the roost this weekend and all of next week! Going to be very dry and if this pressure keeps building - quite sunny too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 814 ✭✭✭adam240610


    Fingers crossed for anyone going to electric picnic that weekend!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,170 ✭✭✭highdef


    The overnight GFS run has a low pressure over us as we enter autumn with plenty of rain in many areas with central, northern and eastern areas getting the heaviest falls. The low very slowly pulls away to the southwest, allowing warm air to approach from the south. Hopefully this is an outlier (unless you like cool and wet weather).

    18:00 on Thursday 1st September:




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,738 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    That's a nasty looking dartboard low that mainly affects Ireland and plenty of rain and chilly temperatures with it. This is still over a week away so hopefully won't verify.




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,564 ✭✭✭giveitholly




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,738 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    ECM also picking up on that nasty little low and it hangs around Ireland for 3 to 4 days.

    GEM not as unsettled as the GFS or ECM and drops it down through the UK and Ireland around the 3rd/4th of September.




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,530 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    There was the warning that the model reliability naturally goes down the tubes which we always see in late August and through September, and at the moment, we have two areas of interest that have a relatively low chance of becoming a tropical storm. Whilst not saying this is entirely the reason, I'll get onto the other in a moment, undoubtedly it is having an effect to some extent. Now the other reason is perhaps the models are finally trying to pick up on a major pattern change that we have not seen the dominance of since May 2021 with mid-Atlantic ridging starting to develop and a corresponding trough near us. We did see this briefly in late November 2021 but this was very much the exception. Pattern changes are always difficult to anticipate. Persistent warm areas of high pressure have tended to ridge into the UK & Ireland since the final days of May 2021. The pattern has been recurring again and again resulting in prolonged periods of warm and dry conditions, sometimes extreme and record-breaking as with mid-July 2021, early September 2021, mid-July 2022 and early to mid-August 2022.

    I wouldn't be a betting man at the moment with what we can expect, however a traditional warm and dry back to school week is unlikely I think as 2022 continues to rewrite the rule book in many ways. We will see out the final days of August 2022 on a relatively dry note with sunny spells and somewhat warm conditions but unremarkably so, talking only low 20s for inland and western areas whilst the east coast could actually be relatively cool with an onshore easterly wind. Meanwhile, there seems to be somewhat of a trend to drop a trough from the northwest towards Ireland by September 2nd. This morning's models show this being parked over Ireland whilst the east of the UK draw in quite a warm airmass from the continent again. This trough sits around the country for several days bringing plenty of rain and being blocked off heading east by high pressure over Scandinavia. The GFS yesterday was much more towards Greenland blocking and bringing notably cold conditions for the time of year around the 4th-6th September with daytime maxima around low double digits and night time temps in single figures, the 06z yesterday morning especially showed a long fetched northeasterly flow that would be freezing cold in mid-winter. These were on the cool end of the ensembles and were undoubtedly over the top but they weren't total outliers so cannot be 100% ruled out. Significantly milder this morning but still unsettled.

    The long range models, namely the EC monthly and the CFSv2, are also trending towards mid-Atlantic ridging through September 2022 and a corresponding trough to the east which isn't obvious on the CFSv2 but there would be. ECM chart is 500mb height anomaly forecast for 5th-12th September. As I say, would be a major pattern shift on anything we've seen since May 2021 but will it happen? A very warm, dry and sunny August followed by a cool and unsettled September, there's something we haven't seen in a while..




  • Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭Cumhachtach


    Most models ECM and GFS etc firming up on that low sinking on us a week from today. Personally I hope we've enough time for a u turn! September 1992 comes to mind if not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,530 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    That's funny Cumhachtach, I was speaking to some about 1992 similarities earlier this year with the very dry and anticyclonic January - mean sea level pressure for January 2022 was the highest in England since 1992. However the similarities ended quick with springs 1992 and 2022 being very different apart from the fact both had warm Mays but 1992 would have been much more memorable to people than 2022. Then the summers have been very different too with no similarities to speak of. September 1992 was very westerly with a cold North Atlantic so westerlies were colder than usual and it was the coldest September since 1974 in the west. If we got a repeat of that this year, it wouldn't be nearly as cold with how warm the North Atlantic is. Got to remember the oceans were still feeling the aftermath effects of Mount Pinatubo from 1991 in 1992.

    There's plenty of time for a u-turn, have you seen the wild changes that have occurred over the years? More especially in winter but yeah..



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,246 ✭✭✭✭leahyl


    Sorry to bring this off topic a little, but what happened in September 1992?



This discussion has been closed.
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