Cross-border review of rail network officially launched

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120864299#Comment_120864299

I mean I think you're underselling what such a project could deliver. If it were built the coastal line to Drogheda could have DARTs every 5 minutes even while also allowing people to commute from Drogheda to Dublin in 15 to 20 mins. The Airport would have an intercity station and if that line connected to the line out of Heuston that could allow through movement of intercity trains from Belfast to the south and west freeing up buckets of terminal capacity in Heuston and Connolly and allowing passengers to reach the airport without going to Dublin City Centre, many private coach operators do this already because there is significant demand for those journeys.

Trains could run directly from Cork to Belfast and trains could run directly from Galway to say a new terminal near the airport. And before you say it, end-to-end journeys aren't the point the inter connectivity is.

It would be nothing short of a revolution in rail transport in Ireland. Granted it would be expensive but also a highly valuable asset. Electrifying and modernising the intercity lines should come first though. But I would say in the case of Dublin-Belfast there are few other good options for doing so. As you point out a paltry 12 services a day is insufficient and the journey time and reliability is also not suitable, such a project would resolve those multiple issues and Raheny residents can keep their back gardens.

LXFlyer

It’s not just the Enterprise though.

The four tracking of sections of the Northern Line allows for semi-fast outer suburban services to operate and avoids this proposed nonsense of having DARTs calling at every single station between Drogheda and Connolly.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120865553#Comment_120865553

Double track should be the norm on all the intercity lines.

Limerick to LJ double track would also require a new layout of the LJ setup. Athlone to Portarlington - yes. But Athlone to Mullingar reopening might be justified as well.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120865653#Comment_120865653

Is that really the plan? The commuter from Drogheda is slow enough as it is; calling at every station to Connolly (even if electrified) would surely make it worse!

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120866057#Comment_120866057

Yes that is the plan.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120866028#Comment_120866028

Doubling Limerick to Limerick Junction does not require remodelling at Limerick Junction.

Limerick to Limerick Junction, Galway to Athenry and Athlone to Portarlington would be the primary candidates for extending double track.

Additional loops are needed between Ennis and Limerick, Limerick Junction and Waterford and Mullingar and Maynooth to facilitate frequency increases.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120866074#Comment_120866074

LJ remodelling would be to increase the through running and interchange of Dublin/Limerick/Cork interchanges, so cross platform movement is easier.

Reducing end to end transit time should be the aim.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120866151#Comment_120866151

They are already chords linking the Limerick to Limerick Junction line and the Dublin/Cork mainline that permit through running from Dublin or Cork to Limerick and v.v.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120866151#Comment_120866151

LJ was remodled within the last 5 years or so to give a new Down Main platform for Dublin-Cork trains. While this facilitated train movements it replaces what was a cross-platform connection (Dublin-LJn-Limerick) with a traipse over a footbridge.

A second bay platform beside the existing "Limerick Bay) might facilitate higher train frequencies.

Sam Russell

It is a while (over 5 years) since I was in LJ.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120866264#Comment_120866264

If the same train is doing Limerick-Limerick Junction and Limerick Junction-Limerick, some people are going to have to use the footbridge, assuming the Dublin/Cork and Cork/Dublin trains both arrive/depart at the same time, which is the optimum performance that you want.

It’s impossible to be all things to all men.

I can see a scenario where they might add a bay to the southern platform but it would still require some people to use the footbridge.

The current bay has two platforms which allows for both Waterford and Limerick trains to board simultaneously, the Waterford train departing once the Limerick train has cleared Limerick Junction pocket loop.

Ireland trains

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120866067#Comment_120866067

Barry Kennedy said the opposite recently on newstalk saying that there will still be semi-fast services from Drogheda.

Once electrified the electric traction will surely knock a few minuets off the journey time.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120866486#Comment_120866486

Just to clarify, I am quite aware of the trade-offs regarding the new down main platform. My post was a response to a previous poster who seemed to advocate cross-platform transfers for all, something which has been lost as part of the tradeoff.

Also I was not referring to a second bay platform beside the existing Down main, but rather beside the existing bay platform. I am aware that there are technically 2 platforms on thexisting bay, but this imposes restrictions on order of arrival and departure.

Overall, no utopian solutions for Limerick Junction.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120866500#Comment_120866500

Well that’s at variance with what DART+ says.

The fact remains that even if those trains happen they will have to chug along behind an all stations stopper between Clongriffin and Connolly.

The four tracking is essential for any outer suburban semi-fasts to overtake stopping DARTs between Raheny and Connolly and v.v., and to be competitive with the coaches.

Economics101

Latest in the IT about the all-Ireland Strategic Rail Review.

https://www.irishtimes.com/transport/2023/07/18/new-rail-report-proposes-trains-return-to-donegal-cavan-monaghan-for-first-time-in-decades/

While selective, it seems clearly related to Eamon Ryan's rather loopy views on rail transport, not only involving Ballina-Rosslare (again!), but also railways to Denegal. For a minister who is leader of the Green Party, no mention of decarbonisation of the rail network (aka electrification).

Bizarrely the piece by Martin Wall was written from New York. It sounds more like it was written from Outer Mongolia. Irish Times coverage of transport issues is truly dreadful.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867186#Comment_120867186

Its a report about the network, no reason for it to mention electrification, which is happening anyway (albeit slow af)

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867236#Comment_120867236

So it's a Strategic Review, which omits electrification. In this day in age it's like Hamlet without the Prince.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867292#Comment_120867292

We don’t actually know what is in yet other than the drip feed of information.

Let’s wait and see the actual report?

cgcsb

I mean I'd be all for Derry to Letterkenny trains, it'd make more sense than trains to Claremorris but brand new lines can come before making the current network modern and fit for purpose

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120867727#Comment_120867727

The crazy thing is that they're talking about a new line from Portadown through Omagh to Derry/Letterkenny ...did they not consider just extending the Derry line to Letterkenny instead?

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120869716#Comment_120869716

They could but it's not the most direct route. There once was a line from Portadown to Derry via Omagh but it was closed in favour of the indirect route, believed to be because that route served the Protestant population better.

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120870109#Comment_120870109

But it is the most direct to Belfast...

timmyntc

Double tracking & line speed improvements from derry to belfast to Dublin would be better return.

Letterkenny to Dublin via rail in 3 hours is achievable, and also benefits derry to Dublin and derry to belfast services.

Ronald Binge Redux

There's no beef yet!

https://youtu.be/Ug75diEyiA0

road_high

How realistic is the portadown to Derry line chances of reopening? Is the old alignment there (doubtful) or will it be new build? Spur to Cavan and Monaghan also needed. Was so idiotic all these lines were closed to start with

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880502#Comment_120880502

Partition is what killed off most of the lines in the north and north west. Firstly because of the need for customs posts on every crossing, which wasn't feasible. Secondly because the administrations in NI were vehemently anti-rail so were closing lines left, right and centre. CIE tried to keep their parts going but weren't able to. The UTA even wanted to single the Dublin-Belfast line from Portadown to the border at one point.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880502#Comment_120880502

It will not reopen 100%. The old alignment isnt up to modern requirements anyways, would be too slow. Any new alignment would suffer the same obstacles from certain large landowners as the A5 road project has in Derry and Tyrone.

Besides, a new alignment would be better from portadown to Enniskillen via Armagh, Monaghan town and clones. Makes far more sense based on population density than trying to run a rail line through the Mourne river valley

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880502#Comment_120880502

You can normally spot the disused lines very easily on a satellite map, however it's almost impossible to follow the disused line between Portadown and Omagh.

I can see a spur south of Portadown to Armagh, and a line south of Omagh as far as Dungannon. But there are buildings and whole towns on the old line.

For example, someone has built a very long shed along this particular section. The line is to the left of my dashed line:

Consonata

There's an argument that such a route shouldn't even be reliant on the Portadown connection to the Northern Line. If there was joint up thinking, it would make more sense to connect it up via the future Navan line. Makes the business case for both more solid and doesn't add another degree of pressure onto the already congested northern line.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120881296#Comment_120881296

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880725#Comment_120880725

The population of Dungannon, Omagh and Strabane is bigger than Armagh, Monaghan and Enniskillen. That's without considering Derry, which realistically can't be reached from Enniskillen. And the terrain between Portadown and Enniskillen is extremely difficult, if its easier than going from Portadown to Derry, it certainly isn't by much. There is no case to be made for creating a new rail line to Enniskillen based on either on population or geography, and certainly not so ahead of a new route to Derry.