Cross-border review of rail network officially launched

MyLove4Satan

Be interesting to see what comes out of this:

https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2021/0407/1208479-cross-border-rail-review/

The Strategic Rail Review will consider how the rail network on the island can improve sustainable connectivity between major cities, enhance regional accessibility including to the North West and support balanced regional development.

MyLove4Satan

I can't see them building a line from Derry to Letterkenny without spending multiples of billions.

whisky_galore

Another study to generate reams of paperwork and presentations and little else.

a.k.a the last chance saloon for the WRC

Jizique

Deleted User wrote: »

a.k.a the last chance saloon for the WRC

As pointless as the bridge to Scotland

Rashers72

whisky_galore wrote: »

Another study to generate reams of paperwork and presentations and little else.

Hardly a year goes by without another report. Consultants seem to be doing well, but the reports just gathers dust with zero improvement for actual customers. It's especially poor on Enterprise. Sample report from June 2018:
https://twitter.com/irishrail/status/1006467286042112000?lang=en

IE 222

I think there is potential in this for Dublin - Belfast.

There seems to be a lot of talk and interest politically to develop cross boarder projects and the North Eastern Corridor lately. The Northern Line will require an upgrade with the Dart project in the near future either way. Boris was willing to invest billions into a bridge so getting a few quid shouldn't be as difficult. Both sides were fantasizing and telling us all about wanting to develop a high speed rail network recently. Giving it's the EU year of rail that should secure some funding towards any project also.

Quad tracking, speed increases (125 mph) and electrification would reduce journey times dramatically while also massively benefiting local needs and offer a cheap version of the "high speed rail" project that was in the "planning". The enterprise fleet is going to need replacing in the coming years as well so maybe there might just be enough factors coming together at once to make it a possibility.

Vic_08

Paper never refuses ink, consultants never refuse fat cheques and politicians never refuse cheap PR stunts.

I could write this report for free, in fact I will:

Refer to previous reports.

Round Cable

Vic_08 wrote: »

Paper never refuses ink, consultants never refuse fat cheques and politicians never refuse cheap PR stunts.

I could write this report for free, in fact I will:

Refer to previous reports.

Absolutely, millions spent on reports gathering dust on shelves would be better spent on removing level crossings, relaying/straighting track, i.e. things that would actually reduce rail travel times.

D.L.R.

Now that we've failed to deliver Dart Underground, or a Metro, its time to talk about the next project we'll fail to deliver.

cgcsb

Serious work needed on Dub-Bel regardless. NIR are still using jointed track. We'll see what, if anything comes to fruition from the 2027 rail strategy.

Bsharp

The source of this particular study is interesting. It came out of a jaspers report on the WRC which basically said the economic appraisal of the scheme was too narrow a focus, and the strategic context should have greater consideration.

All the hallmarks of a shelf filler though and I'm one of those consultants. Wish it was easier to get things to site. Haven't had the hardhat out since Australia for a rail project.

Pete_Cavan

Bsharp wrote: »

The source of this particular study is interesting. It came out of a jaspers report on the WRC which basically said the economic appraisal of the scheme was too narrow a focus, and the strategic context should have greater consideration.

If you are saying that the all island Rail Review is being done because of the Jaspers report on the WRC, then that is incorrect. After the publication of the WRC reports, Ryan and a few others said "this isn't the end for it, it will be looked at again as part of the all island review", the review was already intended to happen.

whisky_galore

Bsharp wrote: »

The source of this particular study is interesting. It came out of a jaspers report on the WRC which basically said the economic appraisal of the scheme was too narrow a focus, and the strategic context should have greater consideration.

All the hallmarks of a shelf filler though and I'm one of those consultants. Wish it was easier to get things to site. Haven't had the hardhat out since Australia for a rail project.

I don't know how I would live with myself if the culmination all my efforts resulted in a photo shoot with a bunch of lads fake laughing pretending to read a report, or maybe hi vis, hard hat and inspirationally pointing at things that aren't there.

marno21

Throwing this in here. Kind of relevant.

Irish Rail tendering for freight wagons:

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/186543/1/0

30 box transport wagons for zinc ore
10 year framework for upto 300 container flat wagons

CatInABox

marno21 wrote: »

Throwing this in here. Kind of relevant.

Irish Rail tendering for freight wagons:

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/186543/1/0

30 box transport wagons for zinc ore
10 year framework for upto 300 container flat wagons

I posted this in the Rail Freight thread in the Train and Rail systems forum, probably better there.

GM228

marno21 wrote: »

Throwing this in here. Kind of relevant.

Irish Rail tendering for freight wagons:

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/186543/1/0

30 box transport wagons for zinc ore
10 year framework for upto 300 container flat wagons

It's not actually a tender for freight wagons though, it's a tender for consultancy services in relation to a potential future freight wagon tender.

Vic_08

GM228 wrote: »

It's not actually a tender for freight wagons though, it's a tender for consultancy services in relation to a potential future freight wagon tender.

:rolleyes:

Place is awash with management and they can't even pick out some container flats and ore hoppers by themselves.

How to waste public money and keep the hog trough flowing in 10 easy steps.

riddlinrussell

Already mentioned this in the A5 thread, but I'd like to see serious consideration given to restoring the Portadown to Derry railway line in this, it was shut while it was still making profit. And it could bring rail back to Donegal!

Decent two aprter article here on the problems and potential solutions

Tackling Northern Irelands Infrastructure Apartheid:Part 1 - The Problem/

Not advocating for all of them, but some of them would bring a lot of benefits

MyLove4Satan

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Already mentioned this in the A5 thread, but I'd like to see serious consideration given to restoring the Portadown to Derry railway line in this, it was shut while it was still making profit. And it could bring rail back to Donegal!

Decent two aprter article here on the problems and potential solutions

Tackling Northern Irelands Infrastructure Apartheid:Part 1 - The Problem/

Not advocating for all of them, but some of them would bring a lot of benefits

Good grief, I opened that article expecting some extreme hyperbole and professional victim complexes. But you really can't argue with the data presented.

If there is one closed railway in Ireland that absolutely needs to be rebuilt (yes I know lots of the PW is now gone) it is a line from Dublin to Derry via West Ulster.

AngryLips

What kind of condition was the Portadown to Derry line? Was it to a standard similar to Dublin-Belfast or was it more like the Nenagh branch line? ...speaking of which, and slightly off-topic, but what closed lines across the island were of a decent intercity standard? Like I know much of the lines in Donegal wouldn't be fit for purpose today.

riddlinrussell

AngryLips wrote: »

What kind of condition was the Portadown to Derry line? Was it to a standard similar to Dublin-Belfast or was it more like the Nenagh branch line? ...speaking of which, and slightly off-topic, but what closed lines across the island were of a decent intercity standard? Like I know much of the lines in Donegal wouldn't be fit for purpose today.

I'm not sure if it was dual track of anything of the sort, others may know, but I believe it was a higher quality line than the existing Derry to Belfast line, which as far as I am aware was spared the cull only because it was wholly in Northern Ireland (and they then tried to close it in 2010)

L1011

Middling to good quality, bridge structures over roads that might have been crossings on a lesser quality railway. Single track when it closed (with passing at stations) but it was doubled in parts in the past - lots of lines were singled to reuse better track panels and reduce maintenance in the decades after WWI.

This, the West Cork system and the Tramore line were the three worst closures of the entire cuts really; particularly as this one was almost entirely down to religion. Even if they could justify closing the western sections for whatever reason (the customs procedures destroying the cross-border bits for instance), service to Dungannon could easily have been retained for commuters but it wasn't loyalist enough!

Bsharp

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

If you are saying that the all island Rail Review is being done because of the Jaspers report on the WRC, then that is incorrect. After the publication of the WRC reports, Ryan and a few others said "this isn't the end for it, it will be looked at again as part of the all island review", the review was already intended to happen.

Thanks for the clarification. My intention was to point out the Jaspers report demonstrates the need for the strategic review. As an aside, how we're appraising these schemes has scope to change;

https://www.gov.ie/en/consultation/737a6-national-investment-framework-for-transport-in-ireland-nifti/#

Worth making a Submission if interested.

Charles Babbage

L1011 wrote: »

Middling to good quality, bridge structures over roads that might have been crossings on a lesser quality railway. Single track when it closed (with passing at stations) but it was doubled in parts in the past - lots of lines were singled to reuse better track panels and reduce maintenance in the decades after WWI.

This, the West Cork system and the Tramore line were the three worst closures of the entire cuts really; particularly as this one was almost entirely down to religion. Even if they could justify closing the western sections for whatever reason (the customs procedures destroying the cross-border bits for instance), service to Dungannon could easily have been retained for commuters but it wasn't loyalist enough!

Trains could have run non stop to Derry from Strabane. And it was closed in 1965, the year of the Anglo-Irish free trade agreement which started dismantling customs.

Lines to Dungannon and Armagh from Portadown would have been ideal for commuters. Likewise the line to Banbridge and BCDR would have a commuter role. It is shocking that the route of these was not retained.

Peregrine

Bsharp wrote: »

Thanks for the clarification. My intention was to point out the Jaspers report demonstrates the need for the strategic review. As an aside, how we're appraising these schemes has scope to change;

https://www.gov.ie/en/consultation/737a6-national-investment-framework-for-transport-in-ireland-nifti/#

Worth making a Submission if interested.

I can't stress enough how important this consultation is. Everyone please make a submission.

Peregrine

The public consultation for this will be launched this afternoon.

L1011

The UKs "Union Connectivity Report" seems to be putting a lot of weight on this as being what they'll use as their target list for NI works.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118239616#Comment_118239616

I read that, it was basically refer to the Irish government's plans for everything, a complete divestment by the UK government in writing.

shillyshilly

we need High Speed Eire ... HSE!... oh wait, maybe not call it that

Peregrine

https://strategicrailreview.com/

Initial public consultation

Bsharp

Pretty disappointed with the quality of material presented for a project of this magnitude. Not much to provoke thought or engage on for the public at large; responses like to be an echo chamber of the usual interest groups.

They could have done with elaborating on some of their objectives, in a practical sense for rail users.

It feels rushed but the project was awarded end of July. Have they gone early to avoid trickier optioneering type engagement down the line? or is there another engagement proposed at a later stage?

Also, what does the goal 'achieve economic and financial feasibility' mean?

cgcsb

There's nothing in it to consult on????

Heartbreak Hank

Very comprehensive document on rail links to west Cork

https://corkcommuter.wordpress.com/2022/01/17/release-publication-of-the-west-cork-rail-report/

I am not affiliated with them.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118494761#Comment_118494761

it would be correct to deliver a railway back in west cork but i can't see how they would deliver one now given i believe part of the alinement has been taken over, and of course the whole lot of the line was obliterated in the first place.

getting it through the city would require a tunnel, even if the main line had remained bypassing and removing the city railway would have been prudent.

so i can't see it being done, as much as i would support the campaign.

specialbyte

I'm not sure why we would want to bring back trains on the old alignments. Those alignments close decades ago and were built when the country and our population was quite different. The alignments were restricted to the amount of civil engineering works capable by victorian engineers. We'd be better off coming up with new alignments that serve our current population locations using alignments to faster modern alignment requirements.

9320

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118494761#Comment_118494761

I stopped reading when they stated that 2,500 was a major population centre.

MyLove4Satan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118494761#Comment_118494761

'Comprehensive'? Are you sure you don't mean 'Delusional'?

cgcsb

Would be great to see the towns of west Cork connected to the city by rail. But new lines at this point are very far happening. Modernising the existing network has to be priority.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118503701#Comment_118503701

Exactly, the focus need to be on strengthen the core network before we start tacking bits on to the periphery.

goingnowhere

Think someone failed to read the terms of reference, this review is about regional rail and connections between major population centres

"The Review’s focus is not on commuter rail services within the major cities, but it will consider the interactions between proposed improvements to inter-urban rail and existing, or proposed, commuter rail services."

Deedsie

Is there any suggestion when the strategic rail reviews findings will be published?

Peregrine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118542418#Comment_118542418

It was supposed to be published this summer when the process started but I think it'll be the end of the year now.

Heartbreak Hank

Fair play to this lad for spending the time to do a review of rail in Ireland and looking at a potential overhaul.

https://metrovelododo.wordpress.com/2019/08/09/modernisation-of-passenger-rail-in-ireland-a-very-rough-draft/

GM228

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118599506#Comment_118599506

Not very reassuring when the author needs to be alerted via Twitter of the types of trains (DMUs) run on the network outside of the Dublin-Cork mainline and forgets trains between Portarlington and Athlone (still forgetting Galway trains?), but hey it's all good as it is supported by "awesome" maps 😀

Sam Russell

No mention of Navan. Drogheda - Navan - Mulingar would be a huge improvement to the layout.

riddlinrussell

Anyone seen anything from the webinar on this today?

LXFlyer

What webinar?

They're still reviewing the submissions.

You might be confused with the DART+ Coastal North consultation?

That’s a completely different project with a separate thread here:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055630770/dart-dart-expansion

The first webinar on that isn’t until tomorrow evening - why not join it and hear it first hand?.

riddlinrussell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118746563#Comment_118746563

https://www.derryjournal.com/news/people/public-invited-to-rail-ambition-event-via-zoom-3589526

This "Rail Ambition" event, Eamon Ryan and Nichola Mallon were speaking at it about the review.

brianc89

Bumping this. Eamon Ryan commenting on it in a FB post regarding additional bus services which are being launched in the NW.

Does anyone have any more info?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617990#Comment_119617990

At best the review may say they should improve the journey time for Derry-Belfast line. Thats all that could ever happen in our lifetimes - NI does not have the funds, and ROI does not have the interest in rail connections to the NW.