Cross-border review of rail network officially launched

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123906119#Comment_123906119

I'm not even vaguely confused here, thanks.

Every single fuel cell train product falls in to the solution looking for a problem box. They are all failures, and were failures the second before they launched. We have 50+ years of knowing they're failures behind us.

I'd also question how many of those are "on offer" - I suspect absolutely zero of them could be obtained for testing outside of the companies labs; whereas multiple companies are trying the combustion option - and finding out that its a terrible idea too - outside of company labs.

You can discount any fuel cell train as a subsidy sucking joke, not a real project. Fuel cells are a dead end technology; there won't be a market for trains, cars, trucks or buses using them going forward - which we've known for 50+ years - they aren't new!

There might be some market for hydrogen combustion for very specific purposes; but it won't be trains either. However, there are at least slightly more serious projects trialling it - but they'll fail too. While emitting NOx.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123906145#Comment_123906145

I'd also question how many of those are "on offer" - I suspect absolutely zero of them could be obtained for testing outside of the companies labs; whereas multiple companies are trying the combustion option - and finding out that its a terrible idea too - outside of company labs.

Sorry, but you are just completely wrong about this!!

The first Hydrogen Fuel Cell trains entered commercial passenger service in Germany back in 2018. That line has now been completely converted to HFC operation with 14 HFC trains in operation on the line (Alstom Coradia iLint):

A total of 27 trains are to be delivered by Alstom by next year:

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/coradia-ilint-hydrogen-trains/index.html

https://www.alstom.com/press-releases-news/2019/5/rmvs-subsidiary-fahma-orders-worlds-largest-fleet-fuel-cell-trains-alstom

Stadler Flirt H2's first HFC train just entered commercial passenger service in California on the Arrow service just last month:

https://rollingstockworld.com/passenger-cars/the-first-flirt-h2-hydrogen-train-from-stadler-enters-commercial-service-in-usa/

These are real trains, delivered to customers and in active passenger service, not just some prototype!

I'm not aware of any Hydrogen Combustion trains in commercial passenger services. Though I'm aware that it is something some freight operators in the US are playing with.

Hydrogen Fuel Cells aren't a new technology, we have 3 HFC buses with BE for a few years now and there are 20 or so up in Belfast.

Now those buses here and trains in Germany have had plenty of issues, I'm not sugar coating the issues that HFC vehicles are having, but lets not make up inaccurate nonsense, they have enough issues without doing that.

L1011

The flywheel Parry People Mover is a train in actual service. Doesn't make it an actual viable technology.

Fuel cell investment is throwing good money after bad. I'm pretty sure combustion is going to end up exactly the same.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123906853#Comment_123906853

Sure and I've my own very strong doubts about HFC trains, but lets talk about it using actual facts!

I'm happy to discuss the issues that the HFC buses BE and Translink have or that the German HFC trains have had. But we should do so from a position of facts on the subject.

thosewhoknow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123904214#Comment_123904214

Bordeaux’s trams are a little different in that they do run without wires in some parts, but not by using batteries. Instead there’s an electric rail underneath the tram which feeds it electricity.

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123911315#Comment_123911315

More information on the system used in Bordeaux here: Alstom APS - Wikipedia.

In summary, there’s a “third rail” but it’s only energised when the tram signals that it’s over each short power-supply section. This avoids the obvious issues of embedding a live conductor into a street surface. It’s safe, but it’s more expensive than overhead wiring, and it has efficiency issues in rain. In our misty, rainy climate, I think damp would be a bigger problem than the costs, but it could still be useful for short sections where overhead wiring is difficult to install. (Barcelona uses a mix of overhead and ground power on one of its lines using version of the same trams that operate in Dublin)

Hotblack Desiato

I'm sure I can't be the only person who has no problem whatsoever with Luas overhead wires in Dublin city centre. Bring it on, it's not like we didn't have a lot more tram lines in the past…

The "mini-stonehenge" random equipment boxes all over the place (not just for Luas) are much more of an issue tbh. Overhead wires don't get in the way of pedestrians. Far too many signposts and poles around too.

riddlinrussell

Don't most European cities solve th "stonehenge" issue by putting those services in underground boxes?