Modern Feminism-Good for Society?

alexv

Tell me how wrote: »

This is coming across as your fear/hatred for anything 'feminist' prejudicing you in to dismissing it as being some sort of agenda which is seeking to subvert society.

A handful from articles over 4 years is not in itself evidence of anything like this to be the case and that aside, the content of these articles looks at first glance to be either reasonable and appropriate, or an opinion piece on a current affairs topic.

One of the articles talks about the need for feminism in theatre. Its reason for doing so is outlined in your article as follows (bold mine for emphasis)

Is it not reasonable that women in theatre would have looked at this and said that that was not good enough?

Another is clearly marked as an opinion piece and published by an initiative within RTE, Brainstorm' which says this about itself.



The article talking about feminism and children again was located in Brainstorm and that aside, also includes the following.


That point has essentially been made and discussed widely on this thread, if it is relevant in the discussion here, is not relevant to have it discussed on a portion of the site on RTE dedicated to where such discussions are held?

The powerful feminist quotes article was published for International Womens Day last year. Is it an agenda to publish such quotes on a day recognizing women?

It appears that you did a google search for 'RTE' and 'Feminist' and published links to articles you found moreso than you actually being inundated by a narrative driven agenda over the last ten years and that makes it look once again more like the people complaining about a perpetual victimhood are more accurately describing themselves.

You could say 'yeah but where are the comparable articles for young boys or men' and to that I would say that firstly, the reason that there are articles like this about feminism is that the narrative here to fore in many ways has been if not men driven, then with men in plain view and there hasn't been a need to find a place for them to have a voice. And please don't miscontrue that as meaning men have it perfect or that all men have it equal but that 'generally speaking' it has been this way. Certainly in media, including RTE, where for a long time all the big figures were for the most part men. And B, as said above, Brainstorming is dedicated to providing a voice to ideas on current affairs topics. one of the articles you posted was an opinion piece by someone. I am sure that were someone to put forward an appropriately argued counter opinion that they would find that RTE would publish it. We probably don't know though because men who feel this way are still largely at the stage of debating the topic anonymously online or not paying their license fee as their expressions of their counter argument.

You may have finally come up with a definition of modern feminism!

Mike Murdock

silverharp wrote: »

seems to be a bit of wanting one's cake and eating it

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/us-army-halts-gender-neutral-fitness-test-as-women-struggle/CHFHJA5EYGHHQR4W73QZEHIHXY/

Just wait until the US starts meddling with Seals BUDS selection process...

I don't see the Spetsnaz doing similar.

Jeff.

Suffrage feminism? Absolutely 100% I support. Toxic purple headed, hate spewing and let's call it as it is... Sexist feminazism? Cancer.

Sarcozies

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Two couples:

Couple 1 get into a row and the man punches the woman repeatedly in the face

Couple 2 get into a row and the woman punches the man repeatedly in the face

Do you think both will be treated the same?

Probably not. Just like....

Man walks into gardai station claiming his wife/girlfriend/strange woman had sex with him without his consent and he was raped. The guard will tell him he hasn't been because in Ireland a woman cannot legally rape a man.

Skippyme

Unfortunately it has become ingrained from generation to generation due to pressure, & disapproval whether underlying or often visible.

Many guys still think as like long ago being lead that anything not traditionally male is feminine. They equate femininity with the exact opposite of who they are, or what is expected, & so conform & stay within limits.
They exert the same on others through peer & gender pressure.

Men have been so immersed in it that they absorb & it as inarguable, unquestionable, unspeakable & make nonsense out of any contradiction or criticism. They are used to it to the point they class it as normal behaviour yet aspire to keep within Toxic Masculinity boundaries. Racism was accepted as normal but life moved on, people evolved.

Men all too often complain that women are put on a pedestal in terms of being revered for emotional intelligence or at least generally more likely possessing the ability of being more open, empathetic & compassionate etc. However, this is not because women excel naturally versus men in terms of the milk of human kindness, nor to to do with women being biologically different or having superior bonding abilities gifted innately etc. as guys do point to.
Men have these gifts, emotions & abilities but also have limits suppressing them due to judgements from others.

Women will borrow their partner's clothes if they feel like it but many guys wouldn't use a picnic blanket out of the car boot unless they have a small child or another woman to sit on something in public that they consider might effeminate them.

Here's a good example actually, men that are tall, athletic, straight and European are more likely to wear man bags than guys who are physically smaller or come from cultures that equate that as effeminate or gay.

Women are also more likely to wear male jewellery or kids jewellery but men are always afraid of people questioning their masculinity.

In schools teenage boys have often referred to almost anything as gay - they have a hang up & history repeats on a loop because even though differences are now added to the mix in terms of education / campaigns ... limits exist so that anything outside or too much of a mixture is seen as emasculating the average straight guy. Men that like long hair often reduce jewellery or get tattoos, or wear loads of jewellery but shave their head. It's lead not by individual preference but by seeking to prove to others they are straight or man enough.

Sleepy

cee_jay wrote: »

I'm also on mobile, I had a quick look at the stakeholders involved only - I haven't read it in its entirety yet, but see it was only published on 11th March.
If you had an interest in reflecting on the contents, you can read it again I'm sure.
I was just responding to the previous poster calling for a "Department of Equality" and making false claims on the management of said department. A quick google allowed me to educate myself on who the management board was, and who inputs into their statement of strategy - not make wild claims as to the makeup of same.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't call for a "Department of Equality", I said I could see a value in there being one to replace the IWC and all the other feminist groups currently wasting our money.

I don't believe that the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth are concerned about male rights but since you've brought them up, let's take a look at the relevant section of the Department with responsibility for equality: The "International Protection, Integration and Equality" division. Quelle surprise, the team is, as expected predominantly middle-class white women and what a surprise the division is headed up by a former Policy Manager of that bastion of equality: the NWCI... :rolleyes:

kildare lad

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'd say the Russian, Chinese and Turkish armies are having a good chuckle at this.

The sad thing is this type of decision could actually cost lives. If a woman is unable to haul an injured colleague to safety then they could both die (assuming she doesn't cut and run to save herself).

I just can't imagine women risking their lives to save male colleagues. I'm not blaming them, it's not the natural instinct, it's mostly biological and not something that can be controlled very easily. Men are expendable, women are precious to society due to their ability to have babies.

China's slowly taking over the world , while the west is bending over backwards pandering to identify politics .

Silentcorner

kildare lad wrote: »

China's slowly taking over the world , while the west is bending over backwards pandering to identify politics .

Identity politics, which includes feminism is destroying institutions and academia across the developed world...it is a huge cause for concern.

https://quillette.com/2021/03/14/science-goes-rogue/

It's destroying industries too....

Skippyme

In short that article points to the immeasurability of accurately calculating discrimination by statistics as people can be insincere or guarded.

It also insinuates that political correctness can impede productivity.

But this is to be expected as people navigate an ever evolving world while debating ongoing logistics & finding a new normal.

Slavery suited many in society when slaves were bought and sold but not the slave.

Yes changes may hinder others but you can't put that on the slave whose freedom was wrongly compromised for the time that it suited others.

Silentcorner wrote: »

Identity politics, which includes feminism is destroying institutions and academia across the developed world...it is a huge cause for concern.

https://quillette.com/2021/03/14/science-goes-rogue/

It's destroying industries too....

Dyr

Skippyme wrote: »

In short that article points to the immeasurability of accurately calculating discrimination by statistics as people can be insincere or guarded.

It also insinuates that political correctness can impede productivity.

But this is to be expected as people navigate an ever evolving world while debating ongoing logistics & finding a new normal.

Slavery suited many in society when slaves were bought and sold but not the slave.

Yes changes may hinder others but you can't put that on the slave whose freedom was wrongly compromised for the time that it suited others.

Fascinating insight beneath the unnecessary verbaige, women in modern Ireland are in a situation that can be compared to slaves

ErnestBorgnine

Bambi wrote: »

Fascinating insight beneath the unnecessary verbaige, women in modern Ireland are in a situation that can be compared to slaves

Industrial levels of sh!te being spewed

Skippyme

Why so glib ?

You know what I am getting at.

Men want more rights not just women.

Men & women that want more rights will change things is the point for example Health & Safety means some offices may be afraid to ask a young man to move boxes instead of his colleagues so they may ask men & women.

They may be less condescending as the years roll by too towards any of their staff for any reason.

It's like paperwork, it takes longer nowadays than decades ago but in time people complain about the time taken and new measures are put in place or things removed or shotened.

Bambi wrote: »

Fascinating insight beneath the unnecessary verbaige, women in modern Ireland are in a situation that can be compared to slaves

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

Identity politics, which includes feminism is destroying institutions and academia across the developed world...it is a huge cause for concern.

https://quillette.com/2021/03/14/science-goes-rogue/

It's destroying industries too....

The Chinese used the derogatory term "Baizou" to talk about "woke" types for a while, beginning in about 2016.

When it became apparent during the 2020 Antifa/BLM riots that the woke neoracists and neosexists were trying and in some ways succeeding to destroy many of the institutions of the West, those same Chinese posters switched tack to berating the systemic racism, sexism etc. of the West alongside them.

China has also recently proposed teaching masculinity to young boys.

They're smart, they understand they're in a political war, and they know that their best allies are the "woke" extremists in the West.

And those woke extremists - including hardcore, fourth-wave feminists - are too insular and identity-obsessed to see the bigger picture. Rather than being a movement concerned with instilling more rights in more people in recognition that a rising tide lifts all ships, it has become a petty, retributory movement that seeks to make modern men pay for the sins of their forebears, ignores the most impoverished in society, and in concert with many of the world's biggest corporations (who fall over themselves to post the right woke flag on the right day) attempt to convince women that their highest and most meaningful aim should be contributing an extra one hundred thousandth of a percent of GDP.

The whole thing is broken and damaging, and completely disconnected from anything resembling concern for equality.

I remember finishing school in the late 90's and as part of the Leaving Cert we learned about Equality laws in the workplace etc. The basic idea being that nobody could be discriminated against on the basis of gender, race etc.

I naively thought it was new millennium, we'd reached a state where everybody was equal, and the world was in a pretty good place compared to the bad old days. My generation were egalitarian, colour blind, we seemed to relish in how we treated each other the same.

It just makes me sad that nearly a quarter of a century on, these same fights seem to be getting more bitter if anything. At what point do we reach a state of equilibrium where everyone can drop their shields and sit down together? Who gets to decide when that point is reached?

Dyr

Deleted User wrote: »

I remember finishing school in the late 90's and as part of the Leaving Cert we learned about Equality laws in the workplace etc. The basic idea being that nobody could be discriminated against on the basis of gender, race etc.

I naively thought it was new millennium, we'd reached a state where everybody was equal, and the world was in a pretty good place compared to the bad old days. My generation were egalitarian, colour blind, we seemed to relish in how we treated each other the same.

It just makes me sad that nearly a quarter of a century on, these same fights seem to be getting more bitter if anything. At what point do we reach a state of equilibrium where everyone can drop their shields and sit down together? Who gets to decide when that point is reached?

There's a great quote in a film: "Are you such a ****ing loser that you can't even tell when you've won?"

That describes modern feminism rather well

99nsr125

cee_jay wrote: »

We do have a civil service department which has the brief of Equality - Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth. Looking at the management board make up, it is headed up by a white, guessing at middle aged man, with a male minister who is white, gay, and I suppose middle aged. The management board is further comprised of 2 men and 3 women - so nice gender balance. The next level down is also quite balanced between men and women. Quite different from most civil service department actually which are mostly run by white, straight, middle aged men.

Jesus Christ

"white, straight, middle aged men"


Lets just all make, racist, hetrophobic, ageist, sexist comments, that'll solve everything.


It doesn't matter who's in charge, it's outcomes that matter

The idea that a 40-something, upper-middle-class career woman who's been straight through the college-to-politics pipeline is uniquely qualified to speak on behalf of all women by dint of her chromosomes is laughable.

Tell me how

Bambi wrote: »

There's a great quote in a film: "Are you such a ****ing loser that you can't even tell when you've won?"

That describes modern feminism rather well

We've seen here conversation around women and how it was much worse in the past with the implication that they no longer had anything to advocate for.
Aside from how this view was countered already on this thread, here are a couple of stories from this week which, if you were a woman, would suggest that it isn't as simple as that.

The equal rights amendment was first proposed in the US in 1923. Nearly 100 years later, it has still to be added to the constitution. It took until 1972 before the senate passed it and it was sent to the states and various shenanigans that have gone since then means that it has still to be ratified. Given the passion which we have seen people in the US defend the constitution and particularly some of the amendments added to it, an amendment legally guaranteeing women as equal status to men not being ratified for 100 years since it was proposed there is still some work to be done there.

In the next story, March is dedicated to college basketball in the US with the annual March Madness playoff series being held. This past week, the disparity in how women teams are provided for versus mens was shown in stark contrast.
Below is the picture of the weights facilities provide for the mens team, and then the weights facilities provided for the women.





I know some will say, 'It's about money, the men's game creates more' but this is a college tournament played by players who are not paid and colleges should come some bit closer in trying to support women who probably work as hard and for as long as many of the men do.

Next, Turkey has withdrawn from an international agreement intended to protect women.

The Council of Europe accord, called the Istanbul Convention, pledged to prevent, prosecute and eliminate domestic violence and promote equality. Turkey signed it in 2011 but femicide has surged in the country in recent years.

And in the UK, just 2 weeks after Sarah Everard and the light that was shone on police in light of the vigil which was held in her memory last week, it came out this week that a police officer who attacked a woman when she was walking home at night escaped jail and was fined just 500 pounds and his lawyer argued against him having to do community service because it would be difficult for him. Link to Story

Next there was the attack in Atlanta in which 6 asian women were killed and whatever the motivations were because of his own addiction, which his mother said she didn't believe, or because of actions which led to an increase in attacks on asian people over the last year, the police officer leading a press conference the next day was denounced for being too compassionate towards the accused in explaining that he 'had a really bad day, and this happened' rather than calling him out for being the killer he is.

And finally, the UK based football journalist spoke about her experience in doing her job. Link to story.

I set up between the hotel and the stadium. Wembley’s arch is blue and the shot looks superb. I walk backwards to get into the recording spot and a loud, “Hey!” interrupts me. I turn around to see five men. One, approaching me, asks: “Do you want to see a firework?” before pulling out his penis and wildly pissing, getting urine on his trousers and trainers.

I do not want to admit I’m shaken. I pack up, make sure they have gone far enough away and then walk the 50 or so steps into the hotel. I send my manager a WhatsApp, explaining why no video will be forthcoming tonight. He is aghast at what has happened, but I tell him it’s “just one of those”. Part of the job – and life as a woman.

I didn't go looking for any of these stories, I do pay close attention to current affairs and saw these being mentioned at various times on various platforms. 5 stories, in one week, each of which I think would be uncomfortable reading or all to familiar for the women who would read them.
If you were a woman who came across them in the same way, would you think that there was no more work to be done in terms of advocacy? Would you agree with the people here who suggested the first thing women should do before advocating for anything is thank men for everything they have done for them? Or if a woman looked at these stories and felt that they still weren't being treated equally or as they should be, that they felt this way because of some credo or American ideology?
One other thing to say, as Melissa in her piece pointed out, it is not all men. But, if instead of trying to focus on this point, they would call out others when they see them doing unacceptable stuff. That guy who took his dick out and waved it at her was with 4 others. They didn't do it, but chances are if they didn't tolerate such behavior, he wouldn't feel he could do it and that might bring about less occurrences of such events more so than any article or occasional fine for public indecency or whatever.

P.S. If your response to this is to discount it in saying these stories have nothing to do with Ireland, I will take it you think they are problematic, but you just aren't concerned because they happened somewhere else.

Silentcorner

Does the Istanbul Convention recognise male victims of gendered violence including Domestic Violence/Abuse....or is it another directive from the feminist dominated Domestic Violence Support Industry that has being systematically depriving male victims of domestic violence/abuse support for decades now?

dontmindme

Tell me how wrote: »

...Next there was the attack in Atlanta in which 6 asian women were killed ...

That's right - the two non_Asian dead victims don't even deserve a mention...

...fcuk them and the white privileged horse they rode in on.

99nsr125

College basketball is about money

Where do you think NBA players are drafted from ?


Your other stories relating to crime and punishment escape the fact that sentencing and outcomes for men is an order of magnitude harsher than for women

The only protection women need is from actual equality which would destroy vast tracts of their lives, sports, education, crime and punishment, housing, armed forces, healthcare, life expectancy the list goes on.

Sarcozies

Tell me how wrote: »

In the next story, March is dedicated to college basketball in the US with the annual March Madness playoff series being held. This past week, the disparity in how women teams are provided for versus mens was shown in stark contrast.
Below is the picture of the weights facilities provide for the mens team, and then the weights facilities provided for the women.





I know some will say, 'It's about money, the men's game creates more' but this is a college tournament played by players who are not paid and colleges should come some bit closer in trying to support women who probably work as hard and for as long as many of the men do.

College players may make no money but the men's game makes hundreds of millions of dollars a season with most of it being pumped back into the US universities. The women's game loses money and is funded by the men's game.

Dyr

Kinda weird, you ask whats on the list for Irish feminists and you get American Basketball teams being assigned resources based on their popularity a murder in the UK, and shooting in the US which the poster completely misrepresents. A cursory examination of stats for murder victims will show you which sex is getting the wrong end of that stick too, but sure thats not news to anyone.


Whats really weird though is this a world which arranged marriages, honour killings and women being sent to jail for being raped is commonplace and this is whats top of the international agenda for an Irish feminist. Funny old game.

Tell me how

Bambi wrote: »

Kinda weird, you ask whats on the list for Irish feminists and you get American Basketball teams being assigned resources based on their popularity a murder in the UK, and shooting in the US which the poster completely misrepresents. A cursory examination of stats for murder victims will show you which sex is getting the wrong end of that stick too, but sure thats not news to anyone.


Whats really weird though is this a world which arranged marriages, honour killings and women being sent to jail for being raped is commonplace and this is whats top of the international agenda for an Irish feminist. Funny old game.

Well, this is a thread on modern feminism in society, others arguing against the value of it have asked where do feminists stand on situations in countries like in the middle east and you have been a part of these discussions so shouldn't need reminding of it.

And it shouldn't need to be pointed out, but people who do advocate for womens rights do have issue with the items you mentioned in your second paragraph, and I never stated that the issues in my post are what is paramount for such people but that these are news items from just this past week which are relevant to this discussion.

Either way, the last sentence of my post was written with the likes of yourself in mind who would aim to deflect. Both paragraphs of your post show the efforts some will go to to negate any suggestion of a topic which women might feel aggrieved about.

Tell me how

99nsr125 wrote: »

College basketball is about money

Where do you think NBA players are drafted from ?


Your other stories relating to crime and punishment escape the fact that sentencing and outcomes for men is an order of magnitude harsher than for women

The only protection women need is from actual equality which would destroy vast tracts of their lives, sports, education, crime and punishment, housing, armed forces, healthcare, life expectancy the list goes on.

There is a WNBA, where do you think they come from? Men who failed to make it to NBA and then declared as women maybe?

People are quick to argue about the lack of quality in womens sports, how do you guys think it will improve if they do not get adequate resources to develop?

Sarcozies wrote: »

College players may make no money but the men's game makes hundreds of millions of dollars a season with most of it being pumped back into the US universities. The women's game loses money and is funded by the men's game.

All college sports, and many activities besides are reliant on the revenue from some of their mens sports teams. That does not suggest that womens facilities should be so poorly considered as evidenced in this case.

If that were true, all sports outside of mens basketball and football, including track and field should be supplied with equipment on a par with what the women received here.

We both know that that does not happen.

Tell me how

dontmindme wrote: »

That's right - the two non_Asian dead victims don't even deserve a mention...

...fcuk them and the white privileged horse they rode in on.

Interesting you suggest that some people don't deserve a mention, the thread on Boards on the incident was dramatically less busy than on threads on other shooting incidents for some reason. Why do you think that was?

My post was clearly made in the context of how women reading these items this week might feel and the conversation around the attack was focused for a period on the possibility that those attacked were women who the accused had interacted with.

Tell me how

Silentcorner wrote: »

Does the Istanbul Convention recognise male victims of gendered violence including Domestic Violence/Abuse....or is it another directive from the feminist dominated Domestic Violence Support Industry that has being systematically depriving male victims of domestic violence/abuse support for decades now?

Evidence please.

99nsr125

Tell me how wrote: »

There is a WNBA, where do you think they come from? Men who failed to make it to NBA and then declared as women maybe?

People are quick to argue about the lack of quality in womens sports, how do you guys think it will improve if they do not get adequate resources to develop?



All college sports, and many activities besides are reliant on the revenue from some of their mens sports teams. That does not suggest that womens facilities should be so poorly considered as evidenced in this case.

If that were true, all sports outside of mens basketball and football, including track and field should be supplied with equipment on a par with what the women received here.

We both know that that does not happen.

Then advocate for and compete alongside the men on an equal footing, you'd have access to the same facilities.

But of course that wouldn't suit because men would dominate in every aspect and women would all but be erradicated from all sports.

Current segregation is in women's favour, it allows the existence of women's sport to the detriment of mens sport because that's where the money comes from and it defacto discriminates against men by taking resources away from them.

Tell me how

99nsr125 wrote: »

Then advocate for and compete alongside the men on an equal footing, you'd have access to the same facilities.

But of course that wouldn't suit because men would dominate in every aspect and women would all but be erradicated from all sports.

Current segregation is in women's favour, it allows the existence of women's sport to the detriment of mens sport because that's where the money comes from and it defacto discriminates against men by taking resources away from them.

Hard to believe someone would write this statement in 2021.

But, as long as there are people who hold this view, there will be women to counter it.

Eric Cartman

Tell me how wrote: »

Hard to believe someone would write this statement in 2021.

But, as long as there are people who hold this view, there will be women to counter it.

I dont see whats controversial about it, is there any self funding womens pro sport or do they all leech off the mens team ?