Modern Feminism-Good for Society?

Sleepy

Tell me how wrote: »

No responsibility on being a solutions man when you fail to see any issue.

Here's one so for you, is feminism in Ireland a problem for society? If so, what solutions do you propose.

A few quick starting points:

Close the IWC, or at the very least defund it and any other quangos / not-for-profits promoting feminist ideology.

A root and branch review of Tusla with a focus on identifying and firing the misandrists within it.

The elimination of any mention of gender from our code of law e.g. removal of article 41.1 from our constitution to eliminate the "woman's place in the home" nonsense, turn "maternity leave" into "parental leave" etc.

Fund some studies to identify a means of working to close our gender education gap.

alexv

Sleepy wrote: »

A few quick starting points:

Close the IWC, or at the very least defund it and any other quangos / not-for-profits promoting feminist ideology.

A root and branch review of Tusla with a focus on identifying and firing the misandrists within it.

The elimination of any mention of gender from our code of law e.g. removal of article 41.1 from our constitution to eliminate the "woman's place in the home" nonsense, turn "maternity leave" into "parental leave" etc.

Fund some studies to identify a means of working to close our gender education gap.

Good suggestions.

Also, an inquiry into, or investigation of, RTÉ news for partiality generally, and profeminist or antifeminist bias in particular (including in relation to hiring policy, and interview questions asked, et cetera), would be welcomed by many.

RTÉ's editorial values include a commitment to:

• Operate in the public interest, providing news and current affairs that is fair and impartial, accurate and challenging

https://about.rte.ie/reports-and-policies/policies-and-guidelines/

Yet RTÉ appears to be unashamedly profeminist judging by the sheer quantity of articles and stories which are propagated.

Here's a handful from rte.ie:

How to teach your children about feminism, as told by Suzanne O'Keefe, Maynooth University (in which she certifies: "So much of what we accept in society is because of the belief that it has ‘always been that way’, but feminism can help you and your children tackle this problem.")
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2020/1123/1179902-how-to-teach-children-about-feminism/

Why feminism can be good for men, as femansplained by Saint Txetxu Ausín, UCC. ("...how can we men not be feminists too? Feminism is an emancipatory theory of the human being, of women and men, which recognises our fragility and interdependence and the enormous network of relationships and care that social reproduction allows.")
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2019/0702/1059722-why-feminism-can-be-good-for-men/


9 powerful quotes to arm yourself with this International Women's Day, as compiled by an anonymous collective, "we" at RTÉ (in at number 3, Gloria Steinem's chestnut of interchangeable-gender-for-children wisdom: "We've begun to raise our daughters more like sons...but few have had the courage to raise our sons more like daughters.")
https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/living/2019/0307/1034942-9-powerful-feminist-quotes-to-arm-yourself-with-this-iwd/

How waking the feminists set an equality agenda for Irish theatre, as eloquently described by Mary Moynihan, TU Dublin ("An interesting point made was that it was not enough to simply appoint women to various roles but that there was a need to appoint "feminist" women to ensure that genuine change took place.")
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2018/1122/1012586-how-waking-the-feminists-set-an-equality-agenda-for-irish-theatre/

And for the week that's in it, an enlightening answer to the question on every licence payer's mind: Was Saint Patrick a feminist? as interrogated by Jenny Butler, UCC (for those on the edge of their seat, she concludes: "Whether the figure of Sheelagh is actual or mythic, St Patrick’s wife provides some counterbalance to what could be read as the misogynistic quashing of the divine feminine by the famous holy man, Patrick.") https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2019/0312/1035956-st-patrick-feminist/

I honestly don't know if RTÉ news and rte.ie favour profeminist stories and opinions over say favourable pieces about men's rights issues, but anecdotally I would say I've listened to far more of the former than the latter on RTÉ radio in the last decade or so. Seems like every second story is unquestioningly favourable to feminism, which would go completely against the organization's guidelines regarding impartiality.

Luckily, RTÉ is asking members of the public to say what they think about RTÉ and what they want from it in the coming years. The deadline for responding is a few days away (wow, it feels like just yesterday when I first heard about this survey's existence!). Can the public save RTÉ with constructive criticism and ingenious advice, or will the Captain be required to go down with her sinking ship?

https://about.rte.ie/2021/02/16/rte-seeks-public-opinion-for-public-service-statement/

alexv

alexv wrote: »

Yet RTÉ appears to be unashamedly profeminist judging by the sheer quantity of articles and stories which are propagated.

Seems like every second story is unquestioningly favourable to feminism, which would go completely against the organization's guidelines regarding impartiality.

Supporting gender equality isn't 'partiality', it's in the public interest, and therefore in line with their values.

If you feel there should be more men's rights programming, by all means give them that feedback, god knows they need to change things up. But there's zero reason for them to dial back on educating people about feminism. Allowing women's issues time and space in their reporting and programming isn't voicing an opinion, it's accepting a fact - that women exist and are part of their viewership.

Mad_maxx

alexv wrote: »

Good suggestions.

Also, an inquiry into, or investigation of, RTÉ news for partiality generally, and profeminist or antifeminist bias in particular (including in relation to hiring policy, and interview questions asked, et cetera), would be welcomed by many.

RTÉ's editorial values include a commitment to:

• Operate in the public interest, providing news and current affairs that is fair and impartial, accurate and challenging

https://about.rte.ie/reports-and-policies/policies-and-guidelines/

Yet RTÉ appears to be unashamedly profeminist judging by the sheer quantity of articles and stories which are propagated.

Here's a handful from rte.ie:

How to teach your children about feminism, as told by Suzanne O'Keefe, Maynooth University (in which she certifies: "So much of what we accept in society is because of the belief that it has ‘always been that way’, but feminism can help you and your children tackle this problem.")
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2020/1123/1179902-how-to-teach-children-about-feminism/

Why feminism can be good for men, as femansplained by Saint Txetxu Ausín, UCC. ("...how can we men not be feminists too? Feminism is an emancipatory theory of the human being, of women and men, which recognises our fragility and interdependence and the enormous network of relationships and care that social reproduction allows.")
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2019/0702/1059722-why-feminism-can-be-good-for-men/


9 powerful quotes to arm yourself with this International Women's Day, as compiled by an anonymous collective, "we" at RTÉ (in at number 3, Gloria Steinem's chestnut of interchangeable-gender-for-children wisdom: "We've begun to raise our daughters more like sons...but few have had the courage to raise our sons more like daughters.")
https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/living/2019/0307/1034942-9-powerful-feminist-quotes-to-arm-yourself-with-this-iwd/

How waking the feminists set an equality agenda for Irish theatre, as eloquently described by Mary Moynihan, TU Dublin ("An interesting point made was that it was not enough to simply appoint women to various roles but that there was a need to appoint "feminist" women to ensure that genuine change took place.")
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2018/1122/1012586-how-waking-the-feminists-set-an-equality-agenda-for-irish-theatre/

And for the week that's in it, an enlightening answer to the question on every licence payer's mind: Was Saint Patrick a feminist? as interrogated by Jenny Butler, UCC (for those on the edge of their seat, she concludes: "Whether the figure of Sheelagh is actual or mythic, St Patrick’s wife provides some counterbalance to what could be read as the misogynistic quashing of the divine feminine by the famous holy man, Patrick.") https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2019/0312/1035956-st-patrick-feminist/

I honestly don't know if RTÉ news and rte.ie favour profeminist stories and opinions over say favourable pieces about men's rights issues, but anecdotally I would say I've listened to far more of the former than the latter on RTÉ radio in the last decade or so. Seems like every second story is unquestioningly favourable to feminism, which would go completely against the organization's guidelines regarding impartiality.

Luckily, RTÉ is asking members of the public to say what they think about RTÉ and what they want from it in the coming years. The deadline for responding is a few days away (wow, it feels like just yesterday when I first heard about this survey's existence!). Can the public save RTÉ with constructive criticism and ingenious advice, or will the Captain be required to go down with her sinking ship?

https://about.rte.ie/2021/02/16/rte-seeks-public-opinion-for-public-service-statement/

coming up to two years since i stopped paying the tv licence

heres to the next two

true-or-false

true-or-false wrote: »

Supporting gender equality isn't 'partiality', it's in the public interest, and therefore in line with their values.

If you feel there should be more men's rights programming, by all means give them that feedback, god knows they need to change things up. But there's zero reason for them to dial back on educating people about feminism. Allowing women's issues time and space in their reporting and programming isn't voicing an opinion, it's accepting a fact - that women exist and are part of their viewership.

Lol. Really? Educating people about feminism? What education do we need?

May I ask, are you a man or a woman?

Tell me how

Sleepy wrote: »

A few quick starting points:

1 - Close the IWC, or at the very least defund it and any other quangos / not-for-profits promoting feminist ideology.

2 - A root and branch review of Tusla with a focus on identifying and firing the misandrists within it.

3 - The elimination of any mention of gender from our code of law e.g. removal of article 41.1 from our constitution to eliminate the "woman's place in the home" nonsense, turn "maternity leave" into "parental leave" etc.

4 - Fund some studies to identify a means of working to close our gender education gap.

Leaving aside that you didn't mention whether or not feminism in Ireland today is a problem, I do appreciate that you have made some suggestions here.

1 - Seeking to close or defund the IWC makes me think you have a fundamental issue with any group advocating for womens rights. That seems a pretty extreme position to take.

2 - Should there be a root and branch of every publicly funded body to root out both the misandrists and the misogynists'? If not, why not, and why just target people within Tulsa who may have misandrist views?

3 - Seems reasonable enough.

4 - Seems reasonable enough. I would point out that work in this space might previously have been done by not for profits and you have suggested above that they be defunded. If value for money is the aim, it might be more efficient to have such groups involved in this than to get government departments involved or to outsource it to consultants. I agree with the premise of funding an investigation in such gaps, and would suggest women would be entitled for continued parallel investigations in to pay gap to continue.

Is it fair to say that organizations such as the IWC or others came about through advocacy and lobbying for funds. I think any group who gets public money should have to show merit for that money but I would also say that these bodies could be used as evidence of what advocacy can do and that mens groups could seek to get funding in similar ways rather than just saying that the money not go to the female focused groups (not that that is what you have said).

Grab All Association

I presume it’s this nonsense why the opening line of The Beautiful South’s -You Keep It All In “when all I wanted to do is knife you in the heart” was bleeped out earlier on radio?

Grab All Association

Grab All Association wrote: »

I presume it’s this nonsense why the opening line of The Beautiful South’s -You Keep It All In “when all I wanted to do is knife you in the heart” was bleeped out earlier on radio?

Oh thanks a lot!!!

That's am earworm I needed at 2.20 am when I'm trying to go asleep.

As a response....
Ooh eee oooh ah ah, ting tang wallawalla bing bang.

You're welcome

Tell me how

alexv wrote: »

Good suggestions.

Also, an inquiry into, or investigation of, RTÉ news for partiality generally, and profeminist or antifeminist bias in particular (including in relation to hiring policy, and interview questions asked, et cetera), would be welcomed by many.

RTÉ's editorial values include a commitment to:

• Operate in the public interest, providing news and current affairs that is fair and impartial, accurate and challenging

https://about.rte.ie/reports-and-policies/policies-and-guidelines/

Yet RTÉ appears to be unashamedly profeminist judging by the sheer quantity of articles and stories which are propagated.

Here's a handful from rte.ie:

How to teach your children about feminism, as told by Suzanne O'Keefe, Maynooth University (in which she certifies: "So much of what we accept in society is because of the belief that it has ‘always been that way’, but feminism can help you and your children tackle this problem.")
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2020/1123/1179902-how-to-teach-children-about-feminism/

Why feminism can be good for men, as femansplained by Saint Txetxu Ausín, UCC. ("...how can we men not be feminists too? Feminism is an emancipatory theory of the human being, of women and men, which recognises our fragility and interdependence and the enormous network of relationships and care that social reproduction allows.")
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2019/0702/1059722-why-feminism-can-be-good-for-men/


9 powerful quotes to arm yourself with this International Women's Day, as compiled by an anonymous collective, "we" at RTÉ (in at number 3, Gloria Steinem's chestnut of interchangeable-gender-for-children wisdom: "We've begun to raise our daughters more like sons...but few have had the courage to raise our sons more like daughters.")
https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/living/2019/0307/1034942-9-powerful-feminist-quotes-to-arm-yourself-with-this-iwd/

How waking the feminists set an equality agenda for Irish theatre, as eloquently described by Mary Moynihan, TU Dublin ("An interesting point made was that it was not enough to simply appoint women to various roles but that there was a need to appoint "feminist" women to ensure that genuine change took place.")
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2018/1122/1012586-how-waking-the-feminists-set-an-equality-agenda-for-irish-theatre/

And for the week that's in it, an enlightening answer to the question on every licence payer's mind: Was Saint Patrick a feminist? as interrogated by Jenny Butler, UCC (for those on the edge of their seat, she concludes: "Whether the figure of Sheelagh is actual or mythic, St Patrick’s wife provides some counterbalance to what could be read as the misogynistic quashing of the divine feminine by the famous holy man, Patrick.") https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2019/0312/1035956-st-patrick-feminist/

I honestly don't know if RTÉ news and rte.ie favour profeminist stories and opinions over say favourable pieces about men's rights issues, but anecdotally I would say I've listened to far more of the former than the latter on RTÉ radio in the last decade or so. Seems like every second story is unquestioningly favourable to feminism, which would go completely against the organization's guidelines regarding impartiality.

Luckily, RTÉ is asking members of the public to say what they think about RTÉ and what they want from it in the coming years. The deadline for responding is a few days away (wow, it feels like just yesterday when I first heard about this survey's existence!). Can the public save RTÉ with constructive criticism and ingenious advice, or will the Captain be required to go down with her sinking ship?

https://about.rte.ie/2021/02/16/rte-seeks-public-opinion-for-public-service-statement/

This is coming across as your fear/hatred for anything 'feminist' prejudicing you in to dismissing it as being some sort of agenda which is seeking to subvert society.

A handful from articles over 4 years is not in itself evidence of anything like this to be the case and that aside, the content of these articles looks at first glance to be either reasonable and appropriate, or an opinion piece on a current affairs topic.

One of the articles talks about the need for feminism in theatre. Its reason for doing so is outlined in your article as follows (bold mine for emphasis)

In 2015, the Abbey Theatre announced their new season for 2016 called Waking the Nation. The season contained plays by Sean O’Casey, Frank McGuinness, Tom Murphy and three new plays by men, all deserving of inclusion. But the problem was that there were 18 men on the programme in terms of writers and directors and just two women - and all the plays were written by men, apart from one play referred to as a "monologue for children".

Is it not reasonable that women in theatre would have looked at this and said that that was not good enough?

Another is clearly marked as an opinion piece and published by an initiative within RTE, Brainstorm' which says this about itself.

RTÉ Brainstorm is where the academic and research community will contribute to public debate, reflect on what’s happening in the world around us and communicate fresh thinking on a broad range of issues.

The article talking about feminism and children again was located in Brainstorm and that aside, also includes the following.

Through our actions, we show children every day that we embrace certain roles and responsibilities. It’s important that children know that there are no jobs that are more suited to men or to women simply because of their gender. There is just work to be done and we all must do it.

That point has essentially been made and discussed widely on this thread, if it is relevant in the discussion here, is not relevant to have it discussed on a portion of the site on RTE dedicated to where such discussions are held?

The powerful feminist quotes article was published for International Womens Day last year. Is it an agenda to publish such quotes on a day recognizing women?

It appears that you did a google search for 'RTE' and 'Feminist' and published links to articles you found moreso than you actually being inundated by a narrative driven agenda over the last ten years and that makes it look once again more like the people complaining about a perpetual victimhood are more accurately describing themselves.

You could say 'yeah but where are the comparable articles for young boys or men' and to that I would say that firstly, the reason that there are articles like this about feminism is that the narrative here to fore in many ways has been if not men driven, then with men in plain view and there hasn't been a need to find a place for them to have a voice. And please don't miscontrue that as meaning men have it perfect or that all men have it equal but that 'generally speaking' it has been this way. Certainly in media, including RTE, where for a long time all the big figures were for the most part men. And B, as said above, Brainstorming is dedicated to providing a voice to ideas on current affairs topics. one of the articles you posted was an opinion piece by someone. I am sure that were someone to put forward an appropriately argued counter opinion that they would find that RTE would publish it. We probably don't know though because men who feel this way are still largely at the stage of debating the topic anonymously online or not paying their license fee as their expressions of their counter argument.

poisonated

This may have already been said but The problem is that a lot of modern day feminists don’t seem to want equality, they want to be treated better than men.

Tell me how

poisonated wrote: »

This may have already been said but The problem is that a lot of modern day feminists don’t seem to want equality, they want to be treated better than men.

It has been said, but it has been backed up with little evidence of who is saying it and zero links to indicate that it is a consistent feminist position.

Those who use the words 'want to be treated better than men' are, on this thread at least it seems, anti-feminists saying that that is what feminists want.

poisonated

Tell me how wrote: »

It has been said, but it has been backed up with little evidence of who is saying it and zero links to indicate that it is a consistent feminist position.

Those who use the words 'want to be treated better than men' are, on this thread at least it seems, anti-feminists saying that that is what feminists want.

Not trying experiences I’ve had with them but you’re entitled to your opinion.

Eric Cartman

Tell me how wrote: »

It has been said, but it has been backed up with little evidence of who is saying it and zero links to indicate that it is a consistent feminist position.

Those who use the words 'want to be treated better than men' are, on this thread at least it seems, anti-feminists saying that that is what feminists want.

How many feminists campaign for longer custodial sentences , more overtime opportunities at work, more of a share in the physical labour sections. Feminists campaign openly for the opportunities they view as desirable that men have, but rarely the responsibility or consequences men experience , they campaign for equality* , the *denoting only the positive sides

gary550

Eric Cartman wrote: »

How many feminists campaign for longer custodial sentences , more overtime opportunities at work, more of a share in the physical labour sections. Feminists campaign openly for the opportunities they view as desirable that men have, but rarely the responsibility or consequences men experience , they campaign for equality* , the *denoting only the positive sides

It's the same way in every county council up and down the country there has been a push to get more women in well paid senior admin and management roles that would traditionally have been filled by men but I've yet to see a woman on the road fixing a water pipe

silverharp

seems to be a bit of wanting one's cake and eating it

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/us-army-halts-gender-neutral-fitness-test-as-women-struggle/CHFHJA5EYGHHQR4W73QZEHIHXY/

The US army is considering scrapping its new gender neutral fitness test because women have been failing in much larger numbers than men.

Research showed that the Army Combat Fitness Test (ACFT), which is the same for male and female soldiers, was leading to lower results for women with a knock-on effect for promotions.

An early Pentagon study showed women were failing the ACFT at a rate of 65 per cent, compared with 10 per cent for men. Congress has halted implementation of the new test and the army has begun an independent review into whether it is fair. It has been suggested that the standard test could be evaluated differently for men and women.

silverharp

silverharp wrote: »

seems to be a bit of wanting one's cake and eating it

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/us-army-halts-gender-neutral-fitness-test-as-women-struggle/CHFHJA5EYGHHQR4W73QZEHIHXY/

Lol.

If women get the "equality" that some are viciously campaigning for, they're gonna be so pissed off

silverharp

silverharp wrote: »

seems to be a bit of wanting one's cake and eating it

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/us-army-halts-gender-neutral-fitness-test-as-women-struggle/CHFHJA5EYGHHQR4W73QZEHIHXY/

I'd say the Russian, Chinese and Turkish armies are having a good chuckle at this.

The sad thing is this type of decision could actually cost lives. If a woman is unable to haul an injured colleague to safety then they could both die (assuming she doesn't cut and run to save herself).

I just can't imagine women risking their lives to save male colleagues. I'm not blaming them, it's not the natural instinct, it's mostly biological and not something that can be controlled very easily. Men are expendable, women are precious to society due to their ability to have babies.

Mad_maxx

Tell me how wrote: »

Leaving aside that you didn't mention whether or not feminism in Ireland today is a problem, I do appreciate that you have made some suggestions here.

1 - Seeking to close or defund the IWC makes me think you have a fundamental issue with any group advocating for womens rights. That seems a pretty extreme position to take.

2 - Should there be a root and branch of every publicly funded body to root out both the misandrists and the misogynists'? If not, why not, and why just target people within Tulsa who may have misandrist views?

3 - Seems reasonable enough.

4 - Seems reasonable enough. I would point out that work in this space might previously have been done by not for profits and you have suggested above that they be defunded. If value for money is the aim, it might be more efficient to have such groups involved in this than to get government departments involved or to outsource it to consultants. I agree with the premise of funding an investigation in such gaps, and would suggest women would be entitled for continued parallel investigations in to pay gap to continue.

Is it fair to say that organizations such as the IWC or others came about through advocacy and lobbying for funds. I think any group who gets public money should have to show merit for that money but I would also say that these bodies could be used as evidence of what advocacy can do and that mens groups could seek to get funding in similar ways rather than just saying that the money not go to the female focused groups (not that that is what you have said).

the NWC dont advocate for " womens rights "

they push a feminist ideology , there is a difference , feminism is an ideology and is about much more than equality between the sexes , its part of a broader drive towards changing society and which is explicitly leftist

Sleepy

Tell me how wrote: »

Leaving aside that you didn't mention whether or not feminism in Ireland today is a problem, I do appreciate that you have made some suggestions here.

I've made a few posts on this thread - an early rather lengthy one detailing why I see feminism in Ireland as a problem but it boils down to one simple fact: women in Ireland have more rights, and are more valued, than men.

1 - Seeking to close or defund the IWC makes me think you have a fundamental issue with any group advocating for womens rights. That seems a pretty extreme position to take.

As you seem to agree with my point that the law should be genderless, I fail to see why you think any group should be advocating for rights on the basis of gender?

The IWC is a relic of a time where sexism in Ireland was best addressed by advocating for womens rights because they had less rights than men.

When we have a situation where women not only have every right a man has, but more besides (maternity leave being vastly superior to paternity leave) and our society places more value on the lives of women than men (our health spending, our education gender gap etc.), an organisation advocating for more rights for women is actively encouraging sexism. The IWC has out-lived it's purpose to the point where it's become the antithesis of what it set out to be: the scales it set out to balance have tipped.

2 - Should there be a root and branch of every publicly funded body to root out both the misandrists and the misogynists'? If not, why not, and why just target people within Tulsa who may have misandrist views?

Ostensibly I'd be in agreement with broadening the focus but Tusla's reputation for acting in the interests of women, often to the detriment of their children who may be better served by being placed in the custody of their fathers, is horrifying. Mark my words, we'll see the legal profession make fortunes off of Tusla's misdeeds in coming decades.

4 - Seems reasonable enough. I would point out that work in this space might previously have been done by not for profits and you have suggested above that they be defunded. If value for money is the aim, it might be more efficient to have such groups involved in this than to get government departments involved or to outsource it to consultants. I agree with the premise of funding an investigation in such gaps, and would suggest women would be entitled for continued parallel investigations in to pay gap to continue.

Is it fair to say that organizations such as the IWC or others came about through advocacy and lobbying for funds. I think any group who gets public money should have to show merit for that money but I would also say that these bodies could be used as evidence of what advocacy can do and that mens groups could seek to get funding in similar ways rather than just saying that the money not go to the female focused groups (not that that is what you have said).

I'm rather against our culture of allowing a myriad of not-for-profits to engage in activities our public sector should be dealing with. There's scant evidence that the sector offers value for the public money it spends, ridiculous amounts of duplication of effort and a history of mis-management and misappropriation of funds in the sector. Put simply: if feminists want a mouth-piece to advocate for superior legal status in Ireland, it should be funded by those feminists, not the taxpayer.

I can see a value in a "Department of Equality" that examined our legal system and demographic outcomes to identify areas where changes are needed to make our society more egalitarian on all bases: gender, sexuality, age and race. The sad reality is that in the current environment, such a department would end up almost entirely run and staffed by white, straight, middle aged women whose idea of "equality" has been warped through the lens of feminism.

cee_jay

Sleepy wrote: »

I can see a value in a "Department of Equality" that examined our legal system and demographic outcomes to identify areas where changes are needed to make our society more egalitarian on all bases: gender, sexuality, age and race. The sad reality is that in the current environment, such a department would end up almost entirely run and staffed by white, straight, middle aged women whose idea of "equality" has been warped through the lens of feminism.

We do have a civil service department which has the brief of Equality - Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth. Looking at the management board make up, it is headed up by a white, guessing at middle aged man, with a male minister who is white, gay, and I suppose middle aged. The management board is further comprised of 2 men and 3 women - so nice gender balance. The next level down is also quite balanced between men and women. Quite different from most civil service department actually which are mostly run by white, straight, middle aged men.

Sleepy

Aye, the "Allsorts" department does exist but equality is only a part of their remit, and an element which has been passed back and forth between various ministries over the years (notably between the broad strands of Justice and Health).

You can be sure their view of "equality" is the same as that of the IWC: female superiority.

cee_jay

Sleepy wrote: »

Aye, the "Allsorts" department does exist but equality is only a part of their remit, and an element which has been passed back and forth between various ministries over the years (notably between the broad strands of Justice and Health).

You can be sure their view of "equality" is the same as that of the IWC: female superiority.

Do you have any evidence to back this up or is it just whataboutery?
I have had a look at their Statement of Strategy - the department looked for public consultation into what they should be focusing on over the next 3 years, I don't see "IWC" on the list of stakeholders.

As for passed back and forth, it has indeed - that is what happens in a lot of departments due to the short nature of our governments and political system. It happens in quite a number of departments depending on the political will.

the_pen_turner

cee_jay wrote: »

Do you have any evidence to back this up or is it just whataboutery?
I have had a look at their Statement of Strategy - the department looked for public consultation into what they should be focusing on over the next 3 years, I don't see "IWC" on the list of stakeholders.

As for passed back and forth, it has indeed - that is what happens in a lot of departments due to the short nature of our governments and political system. It happens in quite a number of departments depending on the political will.

Have you a link to that or even a breef outline of what it will do to level out the inequality that men and women face

cee_jay

Quick google should find that for you. That's how I found it.

the_pen_turner

cee_jay wrote: »

Quick google should find that for you. That's how I found it.

I'm only phone at the moment so reading large files would be a pita .
Just tell me the just of it

Sleepy

cee_jay wrote: »

Do you have any evidence to back this up or is it just whataboutery?

I'm simply capable of looking at the real world these "Statements of Strategy" are written in.

Men are the second class citizens in Ireland and there's no public voice of note addressing that (the closest I can think of is the time a few years ago when Senator Norris called out Senator Bacik's sexism in the Seaned).

What we do have is a very loud, very prominent and very well funded feminist lobby and it takes quite the leap of faith to believe that it isn't this lobby group that are defining "equality" for the department.

Two couples:

Couple 1 get into a row and the man punches the woman repeatedly in the face

Couple 2 get into a row and the woman punches the man repeatedly in the face

Do you think both will be treated the same?

cee_jay

the_pen_turner wrote: »

I'm only phone at the moment so reading large files would be a pita .
Just tell me the just of it

I'm also on mobile, I had a quick look at the stakeholders involved only - I haven't read it in its entirety yet, but see it was only published on 11th March.
If you had an interest in reflecting on the contents, you can read it again I'm sure.
I was just responding to the previous poster calling for a "Department of Equality" and making false claims on the management of said department. A quick google allowed me to educate myself on who the management board was, and who inputs into their statement of strategy - not make wild claims as to the makeup of same.

the_pen_turner

cee_jay wrote: »

I'm also on mobile, I had a quick look at the stakeholders involved only - I haven't read it in its entirety yet, but see it was only published on 11th March.
If you had an interest in reflecting on the contents, you can read it again I'm sure.
I was just responding to the previous poster calling for a "Department of Equality" and making false claims on the management of said department. A quick google allowed me to educate myself on who the management board was, and who inputs into their statement of strategy - not make wild claims as to the makeup of same.

I gave a very quick look. Only found a page with an overview showing 5 circles with a heading in each.
I'm looking forward to reading it later to see how they are going to tackle goal 3, domenstic, physical and sexual violence
given that men are the main victims of physical and at least half of the domestic ,it will be interesting to read how they will tackle that from an equality view point

alexv

true-or-false wrote: »

But there's zero reason for them to dial back on educating people about feminism.

There's a big difference between education and indoctrination. You can't educate people about communism without telling them about Stalin and the GULAG; Pol Pot's Killing Fields; and Mao's Cultural Revolution. The theory is one thing, what happens in practice is another (especially in cases where the theory itself is at best clunky, confused and highly controversial) .

In the same way, any honest appraisal of feminism should include references to the misandry of people like Valerie Solanas, Andrea Dworkin, Jessica Valenti, Pauline Harmange and Alice Coffin, and to the polarizing nature of the ideology as a whole.

In 2016, the feminist Cathy Young wrote an article in the Washington Post, honestly appraising some of the negative and dangerous aspects of feminism in general, and of modern feminism in particular. This was written a couple of years after the hashtag #killallmen became popular among 4th wave feminists on social media.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/06/30/feminists-treat-men-badly-its-bad-for-feminism/

Christine Rosen also noted how "man-hating was going mainstream" in an article in Commentary in 2018.
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/christine-rosen/man-hating-goes-mainstream/

Perhaps as Jewish women, Young and Rosen are more acutely aware of the paths to which demonizing a particular minority can lead. Regardless of their reasons, it is this type of balance which is required in educating people about any ideology or movement. To push a feminist agenda on girls and boys, as if it were not a highly contentious subject, is more akin to indoctrination than education.