Provisional Vaccine Allocation - updated 31/03/21

Seth Brundle

noodler wrote: »

The poster's point is the GPs and Pharmacies have the ability and experience to lash vaccinations out and this one will have the added bonus of being completely free for all and, imo, having greater demand than the annu flu vaccine.

Whatever about GPs, a pharmacy is unsuitable currently given the possibility an adverse event (which is why they want people who receive the vaccine (in hospital) to wait there for 15 mins)

breezy1985

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe Revenue should be put in charge of the record keeping, they know how to keep track of people!

Well you do have to give your PPS number when getting your Covid vaccine

noodler

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Whatever about GPs, a pharmacy is unsuitable currently given the possibility an adverse event (which is why they want people who receive the vaccine (in hospital) to wait there for 15 mins)

I know what you mean about the waiting period but this doesn't seem to be stopping bringing pharmacy into the fold if media to be believed.

CIARAN_BOYLE

noodler wrote: »

I know what you mean about the waiting period but this doesn't seem to be stopping bringing pharmacy into the fold if media to be believed.

They ask you to wait in the pharmacy after a flu vaccine in case of an adverse event too.

PhoenixParker

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Whatever about GPs, a pharmacy is unsuitable currently given the possibility an adverse event (which is why they want people who receive the vaccine (in hospital) to wait there for 15 mins)

All vaccines require you to hang around for 15 minutes afterwards to make sure there's no adverse reaction. This is standard practice.

Seth Brundle

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Whatever about GPs, a pharmacy is unsuitable currently given the possibility an adverse event (which is why they want people who receive the vaccine (in hospital) to wait there for 15 mins)

They need to grow up with that nonsense. Unless we're all being lied to and there have been thousands of adverse reactions in the UK in that window that are being covered up it's crap.

touts

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I heard a case where one late evening there were not enough medical staff lined up for vaccine, so the spares from vial were given to admin staff, so as not to waste it. It has to be tricky getting all the priority people lined up at the opportune time.

You're telling me in a hospital they couldn't find an elderly person or someone with an underlining health condition and had to give it to one of their mates from the accounts department? The HSE look after their own. Always have always will

breezy1985

touts wrote: »

You're telling me in a hospital they couldn't find an elderly person or someone with an underlining health condition and had to give it to one of their mates from the accounts department? The HSE look after their own. Always have always will

I wouldn't get too angry about a second hand bar stool story.
Vaccines are by appointment and yes there is a que but its not just a case of whipping up numbers on the spot

JeffKenna

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I heard a case where one late evening there were not enough medical staff lined up for vaccine, so the spares from vial were given to admin staff, so as not to waste it. It has to be tricky getting all the priority people lined up at the opportune time.

The same admin staff who have been going in to the hospital every day during the pandemic?

PhoenixParker

breezy1985 wrote: »

I wouldn't get too angry about a second hand bar stool story.
Vaccines are by appointment and yes there is a que but its not just a case of whipping up numbers on the spot

It's happened in several countries. I've heard of it in both Israel and the US. The US from someone I know and Israel via news reports. Holles St put out a call to local GPS for their left over vaccine according to the news.

I'd be in the camp that hospital admin staff are a good use case for the vaccine. Being in the hospital they're likely to spread it to patients and they're vulnerable to covid too. Contrary to popular belief they're also highly necessary to keeping our hospitals running and if they all end up out sick we'll have an even worse crisis on our hands.

odyssey06

PhoenixParker wrote: »

I'd be in the camp that hospital admin staff are a good use case for the vaccine. Being in the hospital they're likely to spread it to patients and they're vulnerable to covid too. Contrary to popular belief they're also highly necessary to keeping our hospitals running.

We don't know how much the vaccine prevents transmission, we do know it prevents severe impact ... hospital admin staff are less vulnerable than over 80s and nursing home residents.
They are a good use case but they should not be jumping the queue.

PhoenixParker

odyssey06 wrote: »

We don't know how much the vaccine prevents transmission, we do know it prevents severe impact ... hospital admin staff are less vulnerable than over 80s and nursing home residents.
They are a good use case but they should not be jumping the queue.

Anyone in hospital at the moment is either extremely sick or has covid already. Neither can be vaccinated so there's a very limited number of possible patients to vaccinate. We also don't know that they haven't also offered it to patients that are suitable, that's just an assumption.

noodler

touts wrote: »

You're telling me in a hospital they couldn't find an elderly person or someone with an underlining health condition and had to give it to one of their mates from the accounts department? The HSE look after their own. Always have always will

It's difficult to do anything in this country with nonsense like this prevailing.

odyssey06

noodler wrote: »

It's difficult to do anything in this country with nonsense like this prevailing.

The thing we need to get done is vaccinate the demographics that are dying and ending up in ICU from this virus in large numbers.

touts

touts wrote: »

You're telling me in a hospital they couldn't find an elderly person or someone with an underlining health condition and had to give it to one of their mates from the accounts department? The HSE look after their own. Always have always will

The place I know about is not HSE run, a private institution.

breezy1985

breezy1985 wrote: »

I wouldn't get too angry about a second hand bar stool story.
Vaccines are by appointment and yes there is a que but its not just a case of whipping up numbers on the spot

In the case I heard about the 2 medical staff had appointments for vaccine, but weren't available in the event. Medical staff get sick etc, it just sometimes will happen with the currently used vaccine from the 5 dose vial that in a smaller unit not all those appointed to have it may necessarily be available for any number of good reasons. With upcoming vaccines this is far less likely to happen, and in any case availability/roll-out will be greater. Always teething problems with things when they first come out.

breezy1985

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In the case I heard about the 2 medical staff had appointments for vaccine, but weren't available in the event. Medical staff get sick etc, it just sometimes will happen with the currently used vaccine from the 5 dose vial that in a smaller unit not all those appointed to have it may necessarily be available for any number of good reasons. With upcoming vaccines this is far less likely to happen, and in any case availability/roll-out will be greater. Always teething problems with things when they first come out.

Grand you heard 1 story about 2 people in a small unit where there may not have been anyone else to give the extra to.
It's not the story I have the problem with it's everyone who came on after crying about corruption and conspiracy despite not having a clue what they are on about

Van.Bosch

odyssey06 wrote: »

We don't know how much the vaccine prevents transmission, we do know it prevents severe impact ... hospital admin staff are less vulnerable than over 80s and nursing home residents.
They are a good use case but they should not be jumping the queue.

Should we have a gang of 80 year olds waiting around the vaccination sites every night in case there are a few doses to spare?

odyssey06

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Should we have a gang of 80 year olds waiting around the vaccination sites every night in case there are a few doses to spare?

Well I never suggested anything like that...

How will these queue jumpers get their second dose in the necessary window.
Going to have to jump the queue again?
Have to make sure there are more spare doses.

We dont have enough vaccines to protect the vulnerable... but this is happening. Something doesnt add up in terms of getting the vaccines to the ppl who need it most.

breezy1985

odyssey06 wrote: »

Well I never suggested anything like that...

How will these queue jumpers get their second dose in the necessary window.
Going to have to jump the queue again?
Have to make sure there are more spare doses.

We dont have enough vaccines to protect the vulnerable... but this is happening. Something doesnt add up in terms of getting the vaccines to the ppl who need it most.

What is your solution then if people dont show up?
Also how do you know what these admin people do in the health service
How do you know they were not on the list because they are vulnerable for medical reasons
How do you know they skipped the queue


Something doesnt add up

odyssey06

breezy1985 wrote: »

What is your solution then if people dont show up?
Also how do you know what these admin people do in the health service
How do you know they were not on the list because they are vulnerable for medical reasons
How do you know they skipped the queue
Something doesnt add up

Are we vaccinating the vulnerable outside of nursing homes yet? Nope.
Over 80s are next based on the agreed plan.
If the hcw workers are frontline there is no issue. Otherwise they are down the queue.
Citing transmission reduction with no solid evidence of that for vaccines is a dubious rationale for queue jumping.

Whats your solution to the spare dose problem given that its a two dose vaccine?

breezy1985

odyssey06 wrote: »

Are we vaccinating the vulnerable outside of nursing homes yet? Nope.
Over 80s are next based on the agreed plan.
If the hcw workers are frontline there is no issue. Otherwise they are down the queue.
Citing transmission reduction with no solid evidence of that for vaccines is a dubious rationale for queue jumping.

Whats your solution to the spare dose problem given that its a two dose vaccine?

So who should have gotten the spare doses that became available last second. Just dump them


You are creating a conspiracy out of a second hand story where you know not one actual fact

breezy1985

breezy1985 wrote: »

So who should have gotten the spare doses that became available last second. Just dump them


You are creating a conspiracy out of a second hand story where you know not one actual fact

I think in fact the staff who were to receive the vaccine had possibly been involved in managing a patient in an emergency in the hospital, according to what I heard from one of the people who was asked to step in and make use of the spare vaccine. It's a situation that arise unexpectedly and is due to the nature of the vaccine as much as anything else. In a larger institution there would likely have been other higher priority people available to take up the doses. But as somebody pointed out, you can't just stick this vaccine in any patient who happens to be there, as nearly all of them have just undergone surgeries; and all the other medical staff and carers etc had already received vaccines.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

The flu isn't COVID.

And yet both involve vaccinating lots and lots of people. We already have a network for this.

is_that_so

odyssey06 wrote: »

We don't know how much the vaccine prevents transmission, we do know it prevents severe impact ... hospital admin staff are less vulnerable than over 80s and nursing home residents.
They are a good use case but they should not be jumping the queue.

You seem intent on ignoring any reasoned arguments here. They have a separate exclusive process at work in nursing homes. In comparison to the numbers being vaccinated in care homes these alleged queue jumpers is a paltry number and you can't prove off a few headlines that people are deliberately doing as you claim.

odyssey06

is_that_so wrote: »

You seem intent on ignoring any reasoned arguments here. They have a separate exclusive process at work in nursing homes. In comparison to the numbers being vaccinated in care homes these alleged queue jumpers is a paltry number and you can't prove off a few headlines that people are deliberately doing as you claim.

You'll have to find the post where I made any such claims that this occurred.

I was making general points about vaccine & transmission, the positions of different groups in the order, and the difficulty of what to do with 'spare' doses given that a second dose is required in a limited time window - in response to posts which justified giving 'spares' to admin staff.

breezy1985

is_that_so wrote: »

And yet both involve vaccinating lots and lots of people. We already have a network for this.

There are differences in cold storage and prep with the Pfizer vaccine which is why people are going to the hospital to get it rather than the other way round.

I think the Astra one will be easier to distribute but I could be mixed up on that

polesheep

odyssey06 wrote: »

Well I never suggested anything like that...

How will these queue jumpers get their second dose in the necessary window.
Going to have to jump the queue again?
Have to make sure there are more spare doses.

We dont have enough vaccines to protect the vulnerable... but this is happening. Something doesnt add up in terms of getting the vaccines to the ppl who need it most.

You are absolutely correct. On another thread there is a post referencing a Mater hospital doctor who claims that 50% of those who should have received the vaccine have not due to 'shortages'. My nurse wife in another Dublin hospital has now had her appointment postponed for the second time. It's a different story in Cork where a cat in a hospital would have a better chance of getting the vaccine. Yet no questions for our Cork Taoiseach.

is_that_so

breezy1985 wrote: »

There are differences in cold storage and prep with the Pfizer vaccine which is why people are going to the hospital to get it rather than the other way round.

I think the Astra one will be easier to distribute but I could be mixed up on that

No that's right but the Pfizer started in hospitals to test protocols etc. plus it makes sense to have Groups 1&2 done at the same time. It can be stored for five days at refrigerated 2-8°C conditions.

is_that_so

polesheep wrote: »

You are absolutely correct. On another thread there is a post referencing a Mater hospital doctor who claims that 50% of those who should have received the vaccine have not due to 'shortages'. My nurse wife in another Dublin hospital has now had her appointment postponed for the second time. It's a different story in Cork where a cat in a hospital would have a better chance of getting the vaccine. Yet no questions for our Cork Taoiseach.

Wasn't there a big outbreak in CUH anyway? I'm not sure we should be too trusting of claims by HCWs of how it's being done. People seem overly antsy about who's getting or not getting vaccinations. While it'll be great to have them they won't affect how we are living for a fairly good while.