Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759125#Comment_117759125

I think the plan is very much to have Sexton play at the WC. They're not actively planning to replace him. An active plan to replace him would involve playing another 10 who is not as good as Sexton but banking that he will develop through game time and Sexton will decline through age, to the point that they will be the better option by the time the WC comes around.

There are a number of factors at play which I think will mean Sexton is the first choice in the WC. First, here isn't san obvious heir apparent. They're flitting around between Byrne, Burns, Carty and Carbery. So they're not investing an any one player who can use the consistent time to develop. and secondly, Sexton is probably the best player we have when he plays well. When he carried the ball in the 6N he was very dangerous and kept the defence from fanning out as quickly.

I think the current plan (or maybe the absence of a plan) will lead to Sexton being the best option at the next WC. I think Early can be replaced with less difficulty and I'm not sure about Healy. Porter switching to LH might dislodge Healy but I don't see the obvious replacement for Healy either.

jacothelad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117760896#Comment_117760896

Of course "very important distinctions" can cut both ways........we should all remember that.

PMC83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117760999#Comment_117760999

Yeah I have a sneaking suspicion this could be the case. But its seriously hedging our bets. Maybe Sexton has another good / middling season this year and then all of a sudden we're only a year out and hes signed another one year contract. But if he suddenly gets injured then we're screwed.

The arument is that no one has taken the jersey off him and thats just the case unfortunately. I think it's a gamble if we stick with him and hope he makes it to the WC. But its also a gamble if we just park him and go all in on giving Joey /Billy /Carty /Ross the starting spot with a view to them finding their feet and pushing on.

Personally I'd like to se Joey get the starting jersey in green. I think we should be going all in on him at this stage.

sydthebeat

"absence of a plan"??

We've given 5 different out halves their debut in the last 5 years. From every province.

Its their responsibility to oust Sexton, and eventually they will... But you absolutely cannot claim their had been no attempt to find his replacement when their patently has been. Its not the IRFUs fault that none of them have risen high enough yet, they have been given every chance

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117761100#Comment_117761100

Yeah the plan is to either find someone to replace Sexton or play sexton at the WC. there isn't a focused plan to develop one or 2 options, it's to give 5 players a couple of games each and if they don't oust Sexton based on those couple of games then sexton wins by default.

I don't see it as entirely their fault as there isn't an obvious heir apparent. But they are sleepwalking into playing sexton at the WC when his injury and age profile indicate it will most likely a damp squib.

Richie_Rich89

I don't really see it with Burns and Ross Byrne against quality opposition at Test level. And Sexton at the next World Cup? You can already imagine the post mortems after another quarter-final loss - or even pool stage exit.

I think Harry Byrne is probably the best bet for 2023, with Carbery and one of Frawley, Healy and Crowley also in the squad. Unless they get Jackson back in there by having him wear blackface again or something.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117760963#Comment_117760963

His signature "Sexton Loop" that some would say we over-used required significant wheels to be remotely useful. He may not have been top tier, but he was absolutely leagues ahead of Ross Byrne.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117760999#Comment_117760999

Well, they just rested Sexton for the last two tests.

The problem with your 'active plan' is that you need someone good enough to come in and be the successor. With Carbery injured there wasn't anyone.

Hopefully Carbery improves, hopefully Harry Byrne turns out to be good. If not, then Sexton probably will be our best option at the RWC

Podge_irl

Sexton is not playing in the next world cup.

Carbery is quite obviously "the plan" but has been injured. Neither Ross Byrne or Billy Burns are particularly great at international level so meh, install them ahead of Sexton now and as like as not they will be usurped before the next world cup anyway.

connachta

Jack Carty is in the mix.

He's even the most purely talented option.

If he fixes his regular errors, and that's a big if, there's room to slot in

b.gud

30+ posts about why young player X is/isn't the future on a week where there is no rugby to be played. Great to see that the site migration hasn't permanently killed the rugby form and we are slowly returning to the good old days 😂

aloooof

I’m hopeful that a full pre-season for Carbery and an injury-free run for Harry Byrne will see them both push on this season. Sexton is clearly still our best 10, but with his injury profile, he’ll be managed more, which in turn will open more opportunities for HB. Potential win/win there.

jacothelad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117761263#Comment_117761263

Pretty much agree though Burns has shown flashes of talent and ability.....if only he could do it more often. Carbery seems very fragile.

thomond2006

Conor Fitzgerald is an intriguing option. He turns 24 next month and will hopefully nail down the starting job at Connacht from an Ireland perspective.

mfceiling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117761100#Comment_117761100

I don't think that it's that they haven't risen high enough. The heights they've risen to is as far as they can go!! I'd say none of them are close to Sexton's level and unfortunately we're going to face a future where we don't have a 10 who is truly world class.

Most of them will do a job for Ireland but they'll never reach the heights that sexton did at his peak.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117761644#Comment_117761644

Let's be fair - they don't need to hit the heights of arguably our greatest ever 10 at his peak.

That they can't hit the heights of a 36 year old Sexton is more the problem.

OneLungDavy

Sexton would be a perfect Morne Steyn type 10 for the WC, but building a gameplan around him would be a massive gamble.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117761778#Comment_117761778

that would be the way to go imo. unfortunately i dont think JS would be too accommodating to the idea of sitting on the bench

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762200#Comment_117762200

Helpfully, he's not the coach.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762210#Comment_117762210

That's the other thing about Sexton. He wields way too much power for a player. It seems like he would need to be dropped with his own consent rather than simply being a decision for the coach like any other player. The John Cooney reflections on how Jonny stifles creativity is also a big red flag.

I think he will stay far too long and leave a huge hole behind as he didn't encourage anyone else to take responsibility plus the coaching team buys his narrative. He's been great for Irish and Leinster rugby but I really think he's too big now and the balance has been distorted. I think his departure will be a sad day and a big relief for some of the other players who would like to take on more leadership.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762210#Comment_117762210

at times i would wonder how true that is to be honest

Podge_irl

This is just made up based off nothing other than him looking a bit grumpy when he comes off the pitch.

He is the captain and most senior player in the squad. There is nothing whatsoever unusual about his position - it is no different from POC and BOD's role towards the end of their careers.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762452#Comment_117762452

this was a thing long before that france game, a number of players have mentioned how much of an influence JS had/has. Andrew Trimble has said it a number of times i think, have recollections of reading it in Kearneys book too. Lets not forget after the first Lions test in 2017 he and farrell the younger basically took charge of the backs

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762452#Comment_117762452

I wasn't referencing that incident but i was including the incident I explicitly mentioned in the post - John Cooney's reflections. I was going by the much longer term pattern of people describing him as "narky", which is rarely a positive term. The great lack of warmth with which his team mates speak about him. They talk about his skill, his drive, his high expectations etc. but rarely if ever speak about the time he takes to teach them the skills or share his knowledge. Instead they speak about him as "narky". Narky is fine sometimes, but it's a very one dimensional method of teaching and only works well with a small proportion of people. Narky, i think, is a very diplomatic way of describing him because he is an excellent player after all. But I suspect there's way more to it than him being a normal, excellent player.

I predicted, long before Cooney spoke, that I expect that after he retires that the players start admitting that he made things a bit miserable and stifled creativity. Cooney only said it when he knew his Ireland career was over - and if it wasn't over before he said it, it was certainly over after he said it.

AbusesToilets

If Jackson's ridiculous exile continues, Carty is the best option available imo. He's a cut of Finn Russell about him.

Dubinusa

If Sexton is involved at the next world cup, we're fecked! Our draw is awful too! We may be fecked anyway.

Carberry is the next lad up. I don't think he's good enough. He doesn't grab the game and dictate the play. He's injury prone and is a woeful defensive player. He's good for the bench, imo.

HB is unproven and hasn't been involved in top level matches. Unless Sexton is injured he's likely to miss out on the big matches this year.

Sexton plays around 6 times a season for Leinster. When the big matches are played, he's slotted right back into the line up. He plays the semi finals, the finals etc and the lads that get Leinster to the silverware end of the season are cast aside. That is not helpful for developing other young 10's

RB and Burns are probably not good enough.

I think this world cup cycle will be a difficult one for Ireland. A quarter final will probably be our limit.

Farrell is in a tough position. There is no options that are top level 10's. Sexton looks the best atm.

Podge_irl

I couldn't care less what Cooney thinks to be honest. He is a bit part player on the international scene who plenty of coaches at international and provincial level have decided is surplus to requirements.

If the team disliked Sexton as much as you are claiming he wouldn't be captain. There is clearly an absolutely massive amount of respect there. The idea that he won't let himself be dropped and other such statements are just hyperbolic nonsense.

Richie_Rich89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762598#Comment_117762598

I'd be much happier with Carty at 10 in a match against, say, England than I would be it was Burns or RB. But Farrell doesn't seem to like him as much as Smith did. The other two are higher up the pecking order under the new regime.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762653#Comment_117762653

Ah yeah but seeing as he actually has direct experience of the situation i think we have to give Cooney's opinions a bit more weight than yours or mine, don't you?

Of course the players respect Sexton. He's an excellent player . But that doesn't have any impact on whether his narky approach and great influence with the management is negative as well as positive.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762653#Comment_117762653

Agreed. Cooneys "reflections" seemed as much about pointing the finger at all those who supposedly wronged him as anything else. Pinch of salt and all that.