Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Podge_irl

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117619865#Comment_117619865

Is it? He has been unavailable for periods for personal reasons so wasn't in a position to factor into Farrell's plans a lot.

TRC10

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117619865#Comment_117619865

Why do you say this?

In Farrells first team selection in the job, he dropped Earls for Conway.

Conway lost his place in the team when he went way off form in October, he scored 1 try I think last season. Other guys were just playing better.

I think it's pretty clear Farrell rates Conway very highly as I thought he might not make the squad after the season he had. But he was excellent v the USA.

Richie_Rich89

It's strange what's happened to Ryan. He's gone from being world class in 2017 and 2018 to being fairly ordinary. Is it wear and tear? Is it injuries? I suppose the way he plays the game, with huge numbers of tackles and carries, is bound to take a toll on his body. The one area where he has improved in that time is his lineout work.

Maybe a switch to loosehead lock would lighten the load somewhat. Leinster could go for Dunne at tighthead lock alongside Ryan, with Baird benching. I'd be interested to see how that would work.

TRC10

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117619707#Comment_117619707

Keenan is one of the most competent rugby players I've seen break into the Ireland team in a long time.

He genuinely wouldn't look out of place in an All Blacks jersey, as he just has such a great feel for the game, reads the game magnificently and doesn't make mistakes.

He's such a natural, complete fullback. His fielding, his defence, his positioning, his distribution and his running lines are superb, he's rapid and he can step in at 1st receiver as he did a lot last week.

He's been Ireland's find of the season for me and the 15 shirt is his to lose.

aloooof

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117619865#Comment_117619865

I don’t think this is true, tbh. He was out of action for a large chunk of the season, and was playing his way back into form when he came back.

Didn’t Farrell start him in the 2020 6 Nations, where he was amongst our best players?

Former Former Former

Yeah, Conway's form just hasn't merited a green jersey in quite a while, so it was great to see him so involved in the USA game - then of course he had to go off at half time...

I think the incumbents in the back three are Keenan, Earls and Stockdale with Larmour currently in the 23 jersey (maybe).

I would like Lowe to get another shot but he's on VERY thin ice, Conway has maybe missed his window, so hopefully Baloucoune comes good. Addison did a reasonable job on the wing too so he's a lovely fit for the 23 jersey.

Lots of players all of a similar level atm. Need someone to come out and really make a case.

shootermacg

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117619254#Comment_117619254

The camera was behind Kelleher for some of the throws and I remember a few he threw were just incredibly well thrown. I think Ryan fumbled at least 1 perfectly flighted throw. So I'm not sure Kelleher was to blame for any bad lineouts really.

shootermacg

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117619642#Comment_117619642

So everyone is giving plaudits to players and you basically discounted Coombes performance because it's the US. Then why bring anyone up at all? Coombes did his chances no harm at all, played a really good game in a unfamiliar wing forward position, always drew 2 men and then passed. If anything, he's a much better player for carrying tight in the centre of the pitch.

Dubinusa

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117620527#Comment_117620527

Because it's a nothing match! Duhhhh! Coombes should have STARTED against Japan. It would provide a better picture of where he is. Beating up on a pro14 level side is not a good barometer.

Dubinusa

About James Ryan, he obviously is not right. The concussions are likely a factor! Against Scotland he was playing well until the injury.

That said! He's bulked up a bit and I think it's affected his overall play. He doesn't look explosive anymore and he isn't carrying as much as before.

He's still an international quality lock and if he remains injury free, he could return to his best. I think he's going to have to shed a couple of kgs.

shootermacg

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117620745#Comment_117620745

So being absolutely average like Ryan, Baird and Dorris against them, should be more telling.

aloooof

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117620745#Comment_117620745

To be fair, he’s done it against Clermont and Toulouse as well this season.

Still a step up to international level, but I expect him to be involved in the AI’s

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117620889#Comment_117620889

I'd have no issues with throwing Coombes straight into the side for the autumn internationals at 8... He'd have POM's experience at 6 to talk him through his first real test and to help him steady the ship.... playing with Murray and Carberry would only add to his settling in

Dubinusa

I hope Coombes gets an opportunity! He could be a real gem. He certainly deserves the opportunity and I think he's going to be a fixture for Ireland for many years.

Doris imo, is not a 6. I would prefer him at 8. So it's a toss up with himself, Coombes and Conan.

I think Beirne is the best option at blindside. He does everything and is top class. He's played very well there for Scarlets. He gives us a lot of power and a turnover threat!

TRC10

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117620858#Comment_117620858

Doris and Ryan are proven against top international opposition, which Coombes isn't just yet.

Baird played fine v the USA 7/10 and he was one of our top performers v Japan.

Anyway, I agree that Coombes' performance shouldn't be discounted because of the opposition, you can only play whats in front of you and he played extremely well. I still think he should have started v Japan though. We're stacked with quality back rowers.

Neil3030

The only way Coombes doesn't start in the AIs is if he leaves rugby to star in a superhero television series based on the life of young Captain America.

Neil3030

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117620022#Comment_117620022

I had the exact same thought about Keenan. He has decision making that would be envied by a lot of 10s, and speed that's surely up there with our fastest wingers.

Watch the try he scored against the USA from McCloskey's kick.

McCloskey sees Coombes win the ball, immediately calls the play by raising his hand. When the camera goes wide you see Keenan has already run toward McCloskey, anticipating where he's going to kick it. By the time McCloskey actually kicks, Keenan is already at full speed.

I count eleven seconds between Coombes winning the turnover and Keenan crossing the line.

Richie_Rich89

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117622862#Comment_117622862

So?

Rugby player playing rugby shocker.

Richie_Rich89

Some fairly scathing comments from Coons about Sonatane Sexton:

"Ulster scrum-half John Cooney says that playing alongside Johnny Sexton has been 'quite difficult' at times during his career because of the Ireland captain’s communication style.

Cooney played with Sexton during his spell at Leinster before also linking up with the veteran with Ireland. Sexton is known as a tough taskmaster when it comes to driving standards, something that Cooney says he sometimes found challenging.

"When I first started playing with Leinster, I did find it quite difficult the way he kind of spoke to me," Cooney said.

“We did play a bit with Ireland. I won’t really expand on that too much . . . it’s not really the type of communication I enjoy as a rugby player. I prefer a positive attitude. No one wants to make mistakes. It’s something I have learnt in how I communicate with other players."

Cooney says that he has played with plenty of other out-halves who took a similar approach, whereas he prefers a different route when it comes to motivating his team-mates.

“He’s not the only out-half that I’ve played with that acts like that,” added Cooney.

"I’m sure through maturity most players, as they get older, realise the way that they can communicate with players. There’s different ways to get the best out of people and it’s probably something I’ve learned through the last couple of years as a rugby player."

I like Cooney as a player, always speaks well in interviews and is unflinchingly brave and heard working on the pitch.

But reading that article I wonder does it illustrate why he never made it for Ireland. Sexton has won multiple six nations, a grand slam, a world player of the year award, multiple pro and champions cups and a Lions tour and he did it in one of, if not the most pivotal position.

Is it Sexton's job to make Cooney more comfortable with his style or Cooney's job to adapt to Sexton? I think we've heard enough about Sexton over the years to realise he is demanding and probably uncomfortably direct on the pitch, but then if you're a pro and you want to win and he clearly adds good value then shouldn't you really just get on with it?

People used to say the same about Martin Johnson as a captain but it was viewed as a strength. I wonder what it is about Sexton that he gets a lot of derision over his demeanour.

jacothelad

When all the flimflam about rugby is set aside, it is a place of work. Co-workers, especially those in 'junior' positions deserve to be treated with care and respect and no more so when you feel they have been in error. I have had department heads who thought that they were 'invincible' and of course they were not.

When it was eventually my job I chose to use good manners and the carrot rather than the stick. I certainly would not have permitted one of my line managers to speak to me or my departmental colleagues as I observed them belittling others who may have felt that they were not in a position to defend themselves.

I would imagine in the pecking order among Ireland's backline that there is no one there to tell Sexton the is foe example ...a 'useless fool' ....after a blunder. I can think of a few that he probably would not have easily accepted from others and would prefer to forget. I realise that he has been a special talent but that does not give him carte blanch to abuse less senior players. Most top rugby players would shake off and forget strong criticism but some people cannot easily deal with it. Even amongst supporters there is the same sad lack of thought. Take as an example the game in which Billy Burns kicked the ball dead instead of the 5m line. The torrent of abuse heaped on his head was abysmal. Sexton did exactly the same in the same game but gets away Scot free by the same idiots who attacked Burns. Sexton has always been driven to perfection which is a double edged sword. Perhaps he would not have been the same stellar player without that attitude. Still, perhaps with Cooney at 9 to his 10 we may have won the RWC....😜

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117624302#Comment_117624302

In some ways Sextons kick (which he did get plenty of criticism for) was worse as he is the more experienced international by far.

But the two aren't quite the same, Sexton was looking for distance with much of the game left to play - Burns ended the game and had we had the line out we would have had an attacking platform to give at least a chance to win - it was a pretty significant error at the death to be honest, and I don't think I can ever recall another instance where someone kicked the ball dead from a penalty as the final act of a game whereas it happens regularly mid game (Farrell kicked one for the Lions on Wednesday).

Dubinusa

I would imagine that Sexton is a hard man to get along with. At least on the rugby pitch. He's a bit of a knob but, he's a fantastic player. He's clearly the best 10 we've had and drives standards.

Maybe Cooney is a different type of player! He drives Ulster and is excellent. It's possible that both of them can't play together as they are not in the comfort zone.

It's hard to gauge this situation. Sexton always appears to be a price. Maybe he's just too demanding and has a nasty streak. Either way, Cooney is probably out of the set up!

I think people are projecting here a bit. Look at how ROG and Sexton started out and now they're good pals - I suspect rugby pitch Sexton and non rugby pitch Sexton are very different people. And let's not pretend that pro rugby is the same as a regular job - you don't get smashed by 18kg behemoths in an average day job - communication is going to be different.

Michael Zozimus Moran

I think Ballacoune, H Byrne are the real deal. Don’t get me started on Coombes. The future is bright

Former Former Former

Eoin Reddan always said the same about Sexton. This isn't really shocking news. Reddan used to just shout back at him or tell him to fnck off.

Cooney just is not and never was good enough. I'm not sure Sexton being nicer to him eight years ago would have made any odds.

Richie_Rich89

It's such a facile argument to say him not getting picked equates to him not being good enough. There are so many factors at play. There are a whole load of cases of players not getting recognition in one set-up and moving and achieving success elsewhere. Cooney accomplished that at provincial level, but of course it wasn't possible at international level because he's tied to Ireland.

molloyjh

I think there's probably two aspects to this. For starters, Sexton probably isn't the most proactive of communicators. He's a difficult guy to play with and he probably could be better in that area. I dont think Cooneys comments are without merit.

The second thing is whether or not you discuss those in public the way that Cooney has. The way its phrased (or possibly even edited) it reads that Sexton hasn't learned the lessons that Cooney has or matured as much as Cooney has. Clearly Cooney knows his chances on green are done so he isn't bothered editing himself any more. But in as much as it's poor form for Sexton to be a d!ck in the pitch, it's poor form for Cooney to be calling it out the way he is in public. Cooney calling it that Sexton isn't as good at him in that aspect when plenty of others have managed to play with Sexton over the years despite his behaviour seems more like spur grapes and achieves nothing.

Richie_Rich89

Well, personally, I prefer that people are honest, rather than trotting out banal platitudes and clichés. But I suppose some people must like reading empty nonsense that doesn't really tell you anything.

molloyjh

Well, I mean, honestly, I'm not surprised that some people don't understand the notion of "just because you can say something, doesn't mean you should".