Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117767093#Comment_117767093

nail on the head

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117767049#Comment_117767049

maybe but hes barely played at 10 for ulster. think 15 suits him much better too to be honest

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117767049#Comment_117767049

Be interesting to see if he plays more at 10 this season at Ulster with Bill Johnston gone and Will Addison back.

Paul Smeenus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117767156#Comment_117767156

I'd like to see it. Certainly for Ulster.

McIlroy has already shown up well, and Stockdale's fine at Pro14 level. We've more need at 10. I wonder what position he was training in with the Irish squad in the summer?

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117767093#Comment_117767093

He doesn't need to be starting those big games in the short term. He needs to stay fit and just play. Let's take this one step at a time.

OneLungDavy

Anyone willing to discuss positions other than Outhalf? The back row is madness, I think there's too many established players ahead of Coombes for him to see much game time, I hope I'm wrong.

Aki or Ringrose? I would have said Ringrose without a doubt six months ago, but I think having a hard-nut like Aki at 12 is priceless with the current attritional trend.

Tommysocks11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770265#Comment_117770265

Ya ur right, ringer is good but far from undroppable as he's a bit light and certainly no Brian o driscoll and Aki and henshaw are probably more effective as a pairing

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770265#Comment_117770265

Back row is strange plenty of quality options, I think the trick is finding a balanced back row which I don’t think we’ve had for a good few years. I said here before that the backrow has been less than the sum of its parts for a good while. Honestly don’t know what 3 would work although a fit and back to his best Leavy would be the first name down for me.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770265#Comment_117770265

I think Henshaws best position is 13 and he's played better than Ringrose recently. For me the best partnership is Aki-Henshaw. Which is weird as id have said Ringrose was the best player of the three only 6 months ago.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770434#Comment_117770434

That just shows how fickle form can be we could be saying something different again in another 6 months. At least we have the depth to absorb the odd drop in form or injury there though.

As for the back row, we have a lot of options but we don't have a Sean O'Brien, Stephen Ferris or David Wallace there at all unless Leavy can find fitness and top form (which I wouldn't bank on sadly). Our back row is good, but it isn't great. We have better depth than 10 years ago but our starting 3 are a significantly weaker unit.

bilston

If Sexton is still our best 10...and I think he is...then he should play against NZ and maybe play a half in the match before. Other than split the rest of the November game time between Carbery and Harry Byrne. Then see where we are at come the 6Ns. Burns, Ross Byrne and Carty are decent players who may still have roles to play, but I don't think any are the long term answer.

bilston

Aki and Henshaw would be my choice right now, but Ringrose does bring a nice balance to the midfield as well with his distribution. We will see where Ringrose is after a good break and proper pre season...that's something neither Aki or Henshaw will be afforded. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Ringrose is wearing 13 in November against NZ and Argentina. He is a class act.

Also keep an eye on James Hume, he might start pushing himself into the conversation between now and 2023.

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770265#Comment_117770265

For all Conan's exploits in SA I still believe Doris will No.8 next season. Open side will probably be shared between Connors and Van Der Flier, can Leavy get back to his best...that is hard to see, but if he did he is a cut above the rest. Beirne will likely be No.6, but the question is the bench, could Coombes push O'Mahony out? It will be interesting.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770265#Comment_117770265

I think Coombes is timing it perfectly. He's competing with a few lads who are all very good players but none are nailed on in the way Stander was

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770830#Comment_117770830

We are in for an interesting season. As I read your post I saw nothing wrong with it until I realised it meant the guy who started all 3 Lions Tests doesn't even feature in the 23 while the guy not trusted with more than a handful of minutes is in thr starting XV. But it is absolutely conceivable. How they manage that back row, or maybe how they use it, is going to be the subject of much debate.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771031#Comment_117771031

its not inconceivable that he wont be in the leinster 23 if everyone is available either (although i wouldnt be surprised if doris is moved to 6 to accommodate JC at 8)

bilston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771031#Comment_117771031

Just my opinion Molloy. I rate Doris very very highly.

I only realised after I posted it that I had left Conan out altogether. It certainly wasn't intentional!

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770715#Comment_117770715

I think Coombes is the closest we have to a player in the mould of Ferris, SOB or Wally. If he and Doris keep progressing as they have been, I can see a scenario where they are demanding selection at 6 and 8 by the end of the season. (I’m a huge fan of Doris to the point I’d rate him ahead of Conan).

Whatever happens, there’ll be some extremely good players missing out on selection in the back row.

stephen_n

The way things happen with backrow, injury will probably dictate selection more so than anything else. The likelihood of having them all fit at the same time is not high.

Neil3030

It'll be one out of Doris/Coombes, one out of VdF/Connors and one out of Conan/Leavy if you want to prioritize balance. And I'm fairly happy with those options.

We don't really have a Tom Curry-style breakdown specialist, is probably the biggest current weakness. SOB eventually evolved from primarily a ball carrier into this role, and I wonder if either Doris or Coombes will do similar.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117772599#Comment_117772599

You have forgotten about tadhg beirne here, especially when you say we have no breakdown specialist

Beirne is by far the best turnover specialist and effective breakdown player we have on the whole squad

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771316#Comment_117771316

Sorry, didn't mean to sound like I was disagreeing or triggered or anything. My point was that its entirely possible that Beirne could start at 6 and Conan not be in the 23, as mad as it may sound from certain perspectives. Less so for Leinster I imagine although there could be horses for courses stuff there. It makes for an interesting season to see how that whole thing gets managed both provincially and nationally.

pickarooney

I'm looking forward to see what Kendellan can do at URC level

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117772820#Comment_117772820

I agree. He was absolutely everywhere in the u20s six nations. People worry about his size, and you might be more confident if he were bigger, but his consistent involvement suggested a real understanding of the game and an ability to be in the right place at the right time. I'd love if he can carry that through.

Neil3030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117772657#Comment_117772657

Not necessarily turnovers, but a guy who'll be in a lot of breakdowns slowing it down, and getting his fair share of steals and penalties as a bonus. Is Beirne quick enough for that? Thinking about it more, not sure Doris and Coombes are the answer either. SOB was just a freak.

theVersatile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117773151#Comment_117773151

Enter Peter O'Mahoney

AbusesToilets

No

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117773729#Comment_117773729

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117773729#Comment_117773729

And exit Peter o mahony, without actually doing anything.....

Neil3030

The alternative, of course, is to just play POM, who on his own could probably knock the crap out of any three men selected from the alternative options.

Neil3030

The only trio that could take POM the distance would be Doris, Coombes and Beirne. And POM still wins easily on points.

TRC10

I'd like to see who plays well in the 1st couple of rounds of Europe before settling on our best back row.

Beirne is one of Ireland's best players, so lets play him in in his best position, which is 6 IMO.

If Coombes can back up the season he had last season, he can offers size that none of our other backrowers posses. I feel like we need to replace Stander with another ball carrier and Coombes could fill that role, while also being less limited.

Conan started all 3 tests for the Lions, and Doris is potentially world class but could do with a run of games and was poor in the summer.

7 is a straight shootout between Connors and VDF. Leavy could come back into the mix too. I think Kendellen could make a push before the world cup, he looks a generational talent.