Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Former Former Former

And now Rassie has his ammo for the conspiracy theory.

Lord Palmerston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173227#Comment_122173227

Think they're missing Lukhanyo Am too.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173227#Comment_122173227

It's longer than I would have expected to be honest, though the way he adjusts his grip in order to accomplish the feat is fairly damning.

Lord Palmerston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173327#Comment_122173327

Yeah, I agree in that it doesn't look that bad compared to incidents that have received less. I think what does for him is the obvious kind of intent that he appears to have; he genuinely looks like he's trying to hurt the guy and it's just fortunate it didn't end up worse.

He's a dirty player IMO, and think the Boks have better options at 8.

pickarooney

Looks very soft, whether by luck or intention.

Luckily they have the calm presence of Evan Roos to replace Wiese. Or Elrigh Louw, or Hacjivah Dayimani... they're not short of options

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173327#Comment_122173327

John Ryan's recent tackle looked worse but he only got 3 weeks, I assume they looked at their previous records which is something that most would agree with.

ersatz

Nucifora/KPIs…per FFF's list above, that's a fairly expansive set of ambitions for Ireland honestly, and short of the WC semi we've done exceptionally well in the last decade. I like that our (including the IRFU) expectations are that big, it would have been a lot easier for people to cover their arses by being more modest and over achieving which is a more common management style. Fair play to Nucifora, lets hope Humphries exceeds him and focusses on areas that need attention like provincial underperformance, the women's game and grassroots/club development.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122172469#Comment_122172469

not to be pedantic but, even though he was playing backrow for bath, burgess was playing in the centre for england at the time, so realistically it was a back who missed out, most likely luther burrell. interestingly seeing as he lost out to a league convert, burrell himself went to rugby league briefly a few seasons later as he had been part of the huddersfield giants setup when he was younger

Rugbymad2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173561#Comment_122173561

none of those u mentioned will get picked,it will most likely be Cameron hanekom

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173561#Comment_122173561

They have a combined total of 5 caps between them and only 1 of those caps was a start. Still have ALOT to prove to show they can step up and replace an established international number 8.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122175027#Comment_122175027

He would've made for a good backrow player if he'd been given time to develop, instead of getting heralded as some messiah

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122178437#Comment_122178437

It was England in panic mode because of Tualigi. Ireland didn't cover itself in glory when we went into panic mode after PJ and it was Carbery in the mix then.

TRC10

With the Leinster/Ireland team failing to deliver for the umpteenth time, is it time to rethink how we select our national squads, and select the form players from all 4 provinces, rather than on "cohesion" from a group of players who have proven time and time again for club and country that they can't get the job done when it comes to the crunch?

TomsOnTheRoof

Yesterday's result definitely does lend credence to the suggestion that the national side should be casting a wider net with regards to selection. The Summer tour should see fellas like Hodnett, Haley and Timoney getting capped.

VayNiice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184858#Comment_122184858

No.

Let's be clear, Leinster lost a final in extra time to the most successful team in European history who are also filled with internationals.

What have the other provinces shown in knockout rugby? Munster were given a big helping hand last year by facing the leinster 2nds in the URC semis. Ulster and Connacht are poor at the moment.

Do you think we'd have beaten NZ in the world cup with a more even split from all 4 provinces?

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184858#Comment_122184858

Who exactly is missing out that shouldn't be?

Ulster might miss out on CC, and connacht are not playing CC next season. Losing finals against Toulouse, La Rochelle, Saracens makes the players bad so let's kick players for Ireland (who have won back to back 6n) from teams who might not even be in the CC next season?

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185272#Comment_122185272

Well maybe, if Crowley, who was on the bench got the last few minutes with Sexton out on his feet, we might have.

In case you haven't noticed, Ireland already are using players from the other provinces and seem to win a few games. Yesterday, would someone like Henderson, POM or Beirne have called for a kick at goal instead of kicking to the corner to be turned over, over & over again?

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185272#Comment_122185272

Let's be clear, Leinster lost a final in extra time to the most successful team in European history who are also filled with internationals.

You've conveniently omitted a lot of facts from this statement. Leinster have lost 4 finals in a row, won the competition once in the last 12 years and have failed to win a trophy since 2021 and win likely fail to win one again this season. Perhaps they aren't as awesome as we're constantly told they are.

Ulster and Connacht are poor at the moment.

That doesn't mean that every Leinster player is better than every Ulster/Connacht player, or that there aren't Ulster/Connacht players who have something to offer the Irish team.

Do you think we'd have beaten NZ in the world cup with a more even split from all 4 provinces?

I think it's no surprise that when the Ireland team is made up almost entirely of the team who bottle the Champions Cup every year, that they also bottle the World Cup.

What have the other provinces shown in knockout rugby?

Well Munster have shown the ability to win a trophy for one

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185410#Comment_122185410

Ireland are also a team of almost. It's a perfect storm. The Ireland team is the best players from the best team and unfortunately, they are lacking. There's a hump they can't get over but, selecting lesser players from the other provinces is not the answer. Fortunately, there's a glut of u20 lads from this generation that look like they have it.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185428#Comment_122185428

Talking about u20s is a bit of a stretch in terms of ireland. They're not going to be ready for some time

Being very reliant on one teams players isn't the answer especially if 50/50 calls go to players from that team. Sometimes just other voices can be a good thing even if a slightly better option is the leinster player

Hank the DJ

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185272#Comment_122185272

Few things to address here,

A team littered with Internationals, what exactly is the Leinster team then?

What have Munster shown in knockout rugby? Winning a cup with all the games away from home.

An even split? Doesn't have to be an even split it just needs to be the 50/50 calls don't always go the way of the Leinster player.

Ulster and Connacht are poor at the moment, doesn't mean they don't have players good enough.

VayNiice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185455#Comment_122185455

1. I never said leinster didn't have as many internationals.
2. Do you think munster would have won the URC if they'd faced the 1st string leinster team in the semis?
3. Which players from other provinces who aren't already being picked for Ireland are actually better than their leinster counterparts?

Henderson has been poor for Ireland in his recent appearances and has a load of Ireland caps. Timoney has never performed for Ireland when picked. Stockdale, Baloucoune and Hume are all out of form.

Hodnett and Coombes are just not as good as VdF and Doris.

Bundee and Hansen are consistently picked ahead of Leinster players.

TomsOnTheRoof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185272#Comment_122185272

Using that logic both Aki and Hansen wouldn't be in the national team and we'd be far poorer for it.

Munster went on an unbeaten run last year away from home. Leinster fans constantly complaining about how it was their seconds who lost is about as graceless as you can get and one of the main reasons for the lack of magnanimity and support from fans of other provinces.

The reality is that Leinster have failed in their biggest games over the last half decade. The Irish side has had a similar issue at world cups and more recently with the grand slam game against England. Given that a very large portion of the national team is made up of Leinster players it seems reasonable to suggest that there is an issue with mentality there. The introduction of fresh faces would be a positive step in the eyes of a lot of supporters and reward players from other provinces who's form merits a call up, including those with recent provincial silverware.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185586#Comment_122185586

We beat Stormers in the final, if you have ire with how Munster won the URC take it out on Leinster.

Munster played Glasgow, Leinster & Stormers away from home in two knock out games and a final. We won all three.

VayNiice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185587#Comment_122185587

I never said Bundee and Hansen shouldn't be starting. I'm using it as an example that if you are the better player you will be picked. They are both better than their leinster counterparts.

Is it any less graceless than munster fans et al flooding forums to piss off leinster fans any time they lose?

I'm not denying at all that there is an issue with leinster not performing in finals. But losing to toulouse in extra time in the European Cup final is not a good reason to axe leinster lads from the Irish team when they are the best in their position. Do you honestly feel any of the other provinces would have done better yesterday?

50HX

If a player is consistently in form for provence then he should be looked at internationally starting with camps obviously.

I don't like the way some players & let's be honest its mainly Leinster wider squad players that I refer to are jettisoned into irish camps.

Osbourne as an example, plays 3 urc games in 2021& is brought into wider irish squad

Its April this year b4 he starts a knock out match for his club...ffs

Why not have brought in Frisch who had played 30+ times to the same period for Munster.

Sam prendergast is another....can't get a meaningful start with Leinster yet still pandered to & brought into irish camps

Earn the right to get called up not oh you might have potential we will look at you.....horseshit imo.

By the way Osbourne &Prendergast are good players & it's a shame they are not getting more club time..see what they are made of

How is prendergast ment to not believe in the hype around him if he keeps being treated like this, you are not ready, you need to bulk up,you might be the best yet someday hang around & it'll come good.

Max Deegan is a classic example of a good player with limited ambition. He knows as we do he won't be a back row starter for leinster yet quite happy to sign a contract to be in the wider squad.... I x CC game in 2 seasons.

I thought all players wanted to play matches

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185587#Comment_122185587

The introduction of lesser players is not the answer either. It should be gradual with any changes. Bringing in Munster players is not the answer either. It doesn't matter if they beat Leinster B, players like Coombrs have had opportunities and failed. If any Munster lads should get a look it should be Ahern/ Hodnett. From Ulster it's McAnn and Timoney. Timoney is a good player and I think is undervalued here.

Dubinusa

Deservedly so.

TRC10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185741#Comment_122185741

But losing to toulouse in extra time in the European Cup final is not a good reason to axe leinster lads from the Irish team 

You're very dishonestly making out that this is all a knee jerk reaction to one loss. It's not. It's a reaction to them losing 4 finals in a row and failing to get past the quarters in a World Cup which they were favourites for. This group of Leinster players have consistently shown that they don't have the minerals to get over the line in the biggest games, and it's perfectly valid to question whether the Ireland coaches should continue to favour Leinster "cohesion" over quality players from the other 3 provinces.

Clegg

You only ever show up after a loss and never actually offer anything new other than the tired tropes.

The Leinster players are the best we have. If you don't like it, tough.