FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

Bubbaclaus

Whatisthisnow wrote: »

776 cases. Back up they go as we let arrivals in without Quarantine and are opening up 2 extra school years than have been recommended

Up from where? Cases and positivity are continuing their downward trend.

Whatisthisnow

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Up from where? Cases and positivity are continuing their downward trend.

Up from the numbers yesterday and the day before.
Not going to be good with all the socialisation going on as the Govt lost the public by refusing Quarantine for all

Pubs in Dublin (Kavanaghs if anyones asking) back doing take out pints, im sure many will follow now

Bubbaclaus

Whatisthisnow wrote: »

Up from the numbers yesterday and the day before.
Not going to be good with all the socialisation going on as the Govt lost the public by refusing Quarantine for all

Pubs in Dublin (Kavanaghs if anyones asking) back doing take out pints, im sure many will follow now

I'm sure a year into covid now you surely have figured out that the trend is what is important, not the daily fluctuation.

These 2 posts from the last hour in the covid forum sum it up pretty well.

manofwisdom wrote: »

A year into this now and no excuse for such a poor understanding of the current situation.

b0nk1e wrote: »

I think it's a deliberate misunderstanding by people sometimes.

James Brown

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

I'm sure a year into covid now you surely have figured out that the trend is what is important, not the daily fluctuation.

These 2 posts from the last hour in the covid forum sum it up pretty well.

It wrongly suggests the message coming from government has been consistent over the last year. When they've been winging it and playing fast and loose with NPHET advice.

Whatisthisnow

James Brown wrote: »

It wrongly suggests the message coming from government has been consistent over the last year. When they've been winging it and playing fast and loose with NPHET advice.

Which the leak has admitted too regarding mixed messaging

Bubbaclaus

James Brown wrote: »

It wrongly suggests the message coming from government has been consistent over the last year. When they've been winging it and playing fast and loose with NPHET advice.

Not sure what this post has to do with smurgen misinterpreting data, either through not understanding it or for deliberate reasons.

Ace2007

Whatisthisnow wrote: »

They are jealous of Sinn Feins support and scared ****less the FFG power swap over and back is over

To be honest i think SF should be in the next government to see what they'll do, but the problem i see it is that no matter what people do or say SF won't go into power in the next election. It's suicide for the party as they'll have to have spending cuts and increase taxes to pay for this mess. Everything they have argued against for years.

If as you and others say, the electoral won't forgive FG/FF/Greens, who are SF going to go into government with, they weren't able to get any of the parties this time to go in with them.

James Brown

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Not sure what this post has to do with smurgen misinterpreting data, either through not understanding it or for deliberate reasons.

Basically you may not be pretending to have misunderstood miscommunication and contradictory messaging.

Loafing Oaf

Ace2007 wrote: »

To be honest i think SF should be in the next government to see what they'll do, but the problem i see it is that no matter what people do or say SF won't go into power in the next election. It's suicide for the party as they'll have to have spending cuts and increase taxes to pay for this mess. Everything they have argued against for years.

If as you and others say, the electoral won't forgive FG/FF/Greens, who are SF going to go into government with, they weren't able to get any of the parties this time to go in with them.

If the numbers are there (even if only barely) to form a broad left government without FF or FG it will happen. If one or more of the left parties refused to play along and stopped it happening their supporters would never forgive them. Voters who are in any way reasonable will accept that the government will be operating in extremely straitened circumstances. Also it is likely the current government will have implemented the worst of the coming austerity measures.

Brendan Bendar

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

If the numbers are there (even if only barely) to form a broad left government without FF or FG it will happen. If one or more of the left parties refused to play along and stopped it happening their supporters would never forgive them. Voters who are in any way reasonable will accept that the government will be operating in extremely straitened circumstances. Also it is likely the current government will have implemented the worst of the coming austerity measures.

Wishful thinking...

Ace2007

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

If the numbers are there (even if only barely) to form a broad left government without FF or FG it will happen. If one or more of the left parties refused to play along and stopped it happening their supporters would never forgive them. Voters who are in any way reasonable will accept that the government will be operating in extremely straitened circumstances. Also it is likely the current government will have implemented the worst of the coming austerity measures.

And what if the numbers aren't there, would SF go into government with FG or FF, especially if as you say the people want a change and won't want them?

And it's a very real possibility that we will end up in that situation.

Loafing Oaf

Ace2007 wrote: »

And what if the numbers aren't there, would SF go into government with FG or FF, especially if as you say the people want a change and won't want them?

And it's a very real possibility that we will end up in that situation.

Yes they would. You would be dealing with a demoralised and decimated FF who would be willing to go along with whatever SF and the other left parties wanted in exchange for a few ministerial positions. Again most SF voters would understand and see this as a price worth paying if they get most of what they want, especially a 'border poll'.

Loafing Oaf

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Wishful thinking...

That the numbers will be there for a non-FF/FG left government? We went pretty close the last time. And how popular will the current government be after a few years of swingeing austerity measures?

blanch152

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

If the numbers are there (even if only barely) to form a broad left government without FF or FG it will happen. If one or more of the left parties refused to play along and stopped it happening their supporters would never forgive them. Voters who are in any way reasonable will accept that the government will be operating in extremely straitened circumstances. Also it is likely the current government will have implemented the worst of the coming austerity measures.

The numbers were there to form such a government, but the Greens, Labour and the SDs wanted nothing to do with them. PBP eventually gave up waiting for SF to talk to them.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

The numbers were there to form such a government, but the Greens, Labour and the SDs wanted nothing to do with them. PBP eventually gave up waiting for SF to talk to them.

You believe on council level they work as one. So which is it?
I was disappointed they didn't talk to PBP however the numbers were not there. We've been over this.

markodaly

James Brown wrote: »

You believe on council level they work as one. So which is it?
I was disappointed they didn't talk to PBP however the numbers were not there. We've been over this.

PBP sent SF a letter in May I think, months after the election. They are still waiting for a reply.

Whatisthisnow

markodaly wrote: »

PBP sent SF a letter in May I think, months after the election. They are still waiting for a reply.

The Minister for Health in the 6 counties contacted ourGovt first about trying to plan around arrivals

No reply yet

New variants in this week, FF/FG decide we don't need quarantine for all

The same week they abuse more women that went through hell

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

PBP sent SF a letter in May I think, months after the election. They are still waiting for a reply.

That would fall under the criteria of not answering allright.

James Brown

Whatisthisnow wrote: »

The Minister for Health in the 6 counties contacted ourGovt first about trying to plan around arrivals

No reply yet

New variants in this week, FF/FG decide we don't need quarantine for all

The same week they abuse more women that went through hell

The SDLP and SF ignored and even their pals and future coalition partners the DUP and SF were ignored.
People catching Covid is not as important as keeping the shinners at arms length.

Bannasidhe

Ace2007 wrote: »

And what if the numbers aren't there, would SF go into government with FG or FF, especially if as you say the people want a change and won't want them?

And it's a very real possibility that we will end up in that situation.

Will FF and or FG talk to SF?
They refused the last time.
So the reality isn't that SF refused to go into govt, the reality is ranks were closed against them.

Personally I think they would have last time, and they would next time, what I think they would baulk at it being a mudguard junior partner. As the main/equal party I certainly think they would. They gave all the indications of being willing last time.

FF would be a better 'fit' than FG - the issue they would have is if a 3rd party is needed would the SDs, PBP be willing to go in with FF or FG - I have my doubts. it would all depend on the distribution of seats.

Bannasidhe

blanch152 wrote: »

The numbers were there to form such a government, but the Greens, Labour and the SDs wanted nothing to do with them. PBP eventually gave up waiting for SF to talk to them.

Even for you Blanch that is some re-writing.

The numbers were not there to form a left Govt (or leftish if SF is included) - either FF or FG were needed.

Soc Dems and PBP were clear that they were not willing to support FF/FG, LP were off licking their wounds and trying to cast themselves as an actual opposition, the Greens have no issue taking the pensions.

The govt formed was one of only 3 possible majority options. What it was not in any way shape or form was a 'change'.

The other 2 options would have had SF. But as we know, they are apparently 'unfit' -a statement which is an insult to democracy given they have as much of a mandate as either FG or FF.

Bishop of hope

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Even for you Blanch that is some re-writing.

The numbers were not there to form a left Govt (or leftish if SF is included) - either FF or FG were needed.

Soc Dems and PBP were clear that they were not willing to support FF/FG, LP were off licking their wounds and trying to cast themselves as an actual opposition, the Greens have no issue taking the pensions.

The govt formed was one of only 3 possible majority options. What it was not in any way shape or form was a 'change'.

The other 2 options would have had SF. But as we know, they are apparently 'unfit' -a statement which is an insult to democracy given they have as much of a mandate as either FG or FF.

Stating they are unfit by any other party of SF or any other party is certainly not undemocratic, or excluding them on those grounds.
It is the very essence of democracy, the fact that the right is there to state and do it.

Finty Lemon

Now that the current government is essentially finished, how would a Labour,SF,SD,PbP, independents alliance line up?

What would be the broad policy agenda be-
Income tax rates and bands?
Corp. Tax rate?
Housing policy?
Justice incl SCC, drugs policy, Garda funding,
Education policy incl 3rd level funding and 2nd level assessment?
Climate and environment incl fuel security, public transport?
Regional development policy?
Agriculture- biodiversity, dairy herd expansion, beef price?

Finty Lemon

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Now that the current government is essentially finished, how would a Labour,SF,SD,PbP, independents alliance line up?

What would be the broad policy agenda be-
Income tax rates and bands?
Corp. Tax rate?
Housing policy?
Justice incl SCC, drugs policy, Garda funding,
Education policy incl 3rd level funding and 2nd level assessment?
Climate and environment incl fuel security, public transport?
Regional development policy?
Agriculture- biodiversity, dairy herd expansion, beef price?

Has the government been dissolved? Has there been a General Election called?

ExMachina1000

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Has the government been dissolved? Has there been a General Election called?

Its good to talk about the inevitable future

Finty Lemon

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Over 2000 people dead with Covid this year and it's still Feb and govt cheerleaders telling us how well we are doing and but but butting SF and NI and and and....

Pathetic. Stone Cold Hearted Pathetic.

We had porous border when we closed it to protect cattle.

We shot the cattle in 2001 to prevent movement. Is that the way forward?

Finty Lemon

Deleted User wrote: »

Has the government been dissolved? Has there been a General Election called?

It seems like it anyway

Finty Lemon

Finty Lemon wrote: »

It seems like it anyway

Really? I didn’t read or hear it anywhere else! Have you got a link? Can an Election be held at the moment?

Bishop of hope

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Really? I didn’t read or hear it anywhere else! Have you got a link? Can an Election be held at the moment?

It's in the melting pot and dissolving fast it looks like.
Can't see it lasting to get Leo back to his turn as Taoiseach.
FF and FG need new leaders imo or its inevitable that collapse is but the vaccine roll out away.

Bishop of hope

Bishop of hope wrote: »

It's in the melting pot and dissolving fast it looks like.
Can't see it lasting to get Leo back to his turn as Taoiseach.
FF and FG need new leaders imo or its inevitable that collapse is but the vaccine roll out away.

Ah, so it’s just wishful thinking by a keyboard warrior.