FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

Bannasidhe

Ace2007 wrote: »

So your sick of the current government, but you wont' for SF, so who does that leave - some independent that can't and/or won't do anything in power, or labour who will decided once the election is over if they want to go into power?

Regarding the North -yes there are 5 parties in power - but instead of working together and showing that they can work together they all just point score against each other.

Regarding the South - no party or individual should be going for election for the sole purpose of being in opposition - it's 100 times easier to be outside shouting for change than on the inside making decisions.

Gosh - here you are laying it all out with confidence while believing the only choices open to the Irish electorate are FF/FG/GP/LP/IND - do you get all your info from Irish Times polls? There is a glaring commission from your list of 'choices' - one which many poster here have stated is their party of choice.

Gosh - five parties in a region that was in a state of civil war for decades and required both a ceasefire and a treaty to establish peace don't get on.
Who knew!

BTW - I'm playing FF/FG bingo here. Can I have a "populism" and a "Bobby Storey Funeral"?

Bannasidhe

blanch152 wrote: »

Once again we have the false narrative of the dog's dinner.

By the public health metrics and by the economic metrics, we are are at least in the top half or close to the top of the league in the EU when it comes to handling the pandemic.

That isn't a dog's dinner, but it may not be the best either. In our defence, we have a porous land border, where thanks to the abysmal handling in the North, our border counties have suffered the most. It still remains the case, that despite getting a head-start on vaccines, the rates in the North currently are little different to the South, and over the course of the pandemic, the numbers up there are 50%. It is actually quite an achievement to have kept the numbers so low when there is such a sh!tshow across a porous border.

Over 2000 people dead with Covid this year and it's still Feb and govt cheerleaders telling us how well we are doing and but but butting SF and NI and and and....

Pathetic. Stone Cold Hearted Pathetic.

We had porous border when we closed it to protect cattle.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Once again we have the false narrative of the dog's dinner.

By the public health metrics and by the economic metrics, we are are at least in the top half or close to the top of the league in the EU when it comes to handling the pandemic.

That isn't a dog's dinner, but it may not be the best either. In our defence, we have a porous land border, where thanks to the abysmal handling in the North, our border counties have suffered the most. It still remains the case, that despite getting a head-start on vaccines, the rates in the North currently are little different to the South, and over the course of the pandemic, the numbers up there are 50%. It is actually quite an achievement to have kept the numbers so low when there is such a sh!tshow across a porous border.

The porous border works both ways...there is as much movement across from this side as there is coming this way.

Once again you are using victims for political point scoring and refusing to look at the whole picture.

Whatisthisnow

Ace2007 wrote: »

So your sick of the current government, but you wont' for SF, so who does that leave - some independent that can't and/or won't do anything in power, or labour who will decided once the election is over if they want to go into power?

Regarding the North -yes there are 5 parties in power - but instead of working together and showing that they can work together they all just point score against each other.

Regarding the South - no party or individual should be going for election for the sole purpose of being in opposition - it's 100 times easier to be outside shouting for change than on the inside making decisions.

Point scoring against each other, Michael and Leo do this every day. Is it ok here?

Floppybits

Whatisthisnow wrote: »

Point scoring against each other, Michael and Leo do this every day. Is it ok here?

It can be done on here but only when it supports FFG but if it doesn't then you get the book of excuses thrown at you such as playing politics during a pandemic or using victims.

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

Track,trace,crush.the virus and dont let it back in,

Ffgs, plan simply hasnt worked and they've lied to coverup school outbreaks and it lead to diaster....

only option now is to effectiveltly lockdown until everyone/enough vaccineated.....opening up/living with it,such as at xmas,wasnt worth it....

theres not a family hardly left who hasnt lost someone in their extended family since xmas now.....its incomprehensible ffg still expect people to live with this virus,we've lost too much

Ah, the zero Covid strategy again, knew it would raise its head in another guise.

Can't be done in Ireland, porous land border, extensive business ties and travel with UK, trade running at 10 times the rate of places like New Zealand, etc.

McMurphy

Ace2007 wrote: »

Is this not one of the main problems with SF, unless they get their way - they highlight what others won't do? They are in a power sharing agreement in the north, yet they act as if they are in opposition when other parties don't do with what they want.

SF play to their supporters and not to the general population.

What are you actually talking about, this wasnt "a Sinn Fein highlight" I liked back to an article in the fuppin BBC for Christ sake :eek:

The SDLP and Sinn Fein wanted non essential travel banned Britain - the north. Fact.

The Alliance party along with the UUP/DUP blocked it. Also a fact.

There was a request for some kind of backing from the Irish government to help get it over the line.

Michaél did the square root of nothing to help, also a fact.

SF have never once come out and stated that we should close and/or man the border. If the border was closed the border counties wouldn't have had such high numbers of the virus. Why have they never done this?

Are you sure you're up to speed on this?

Michelle O'Neill wrote:

Calling for all-island co-operation, she said: "I encourage the taoiseach (Irish prime minister) to work with us and get to the point where the whole island is shut down to inbound travellers."

"We are the outlier - over 40 countries have decided to bring in a travel ban and here one part of the island is shut down and one is not - we are in a dangerous position."

Immeasurably more sensible than trying to man and police a border that can't realistically be manned or policed imo.

Finty Lemon

Deleted User wrote: »

Track,trace,crush.the virus and dont let it back in,

Ffgs, plan simply hasnt worked and they've lied to coverup school outbreaks and it lead to diaster....

only option now is to effectiveltly lockdown until everyone/enough vaccineated.....opening up/living with it,such as at xmas,wasnt worth it....

theres not a family hardly left who hasnt lost someone in their extended family since xmas now.....its incomprehensible ffg still expect people to live with this virus,we've lost too much

How many deaths in Ireland per capita?
How does this compare to the EU average?

Would that be a reasonable measure of efficacy?

Answer: Ireland 80.1 deaths per 100k
Countries lower than Ireland: 6
Countries higher than Ireland 25
Sweden, UK, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Belgium, Netherlands, Austria. All higher than Ireland.

No doubt Ireland could have done better but in relative terms the State is doing a good job.
Opening at Christmas, the preferred choice of all political parties, was a mistake.

Bannasidhe

blanch152 wrote: »

Ah, the zero Covid strategy again, knew it would raise its head in another guise.

Can't be done in Ireland, porous land border, extensive business ties and travel with UK, trade running at 10 times the rate of places like New Zealand, etc.

Can't be done, can't be done, can't can't can't even though we have already closed the boarder with NI, we have already halted flights from the UK, no one called for freight being stopped.

Just stop it.

Truth is for what ever reason Govt doesn't want to do it - and some day that reason will emerge but it will not be for any of the reasons you and your fellow mean cheerleaders keep chanting.

Finty Lemon

McMurphy wrote: »

What are you actually talking about, this wasnt "a Sinn Fein highlight" I liked back to an article in the fuppin BBC for Christ sake :eek:

The SDLP and Sinn Fein wanted non essential travel banned Britain - the north. Fact.

The Alliance party along with the UUP/DUP blocked it. Also a fact.

There was a request for some kind of backing from the Irish government to help get it over the line.

Michaél did the square root of nothing to help, also a fact.



Are you sure you're up to speed on this?



Immeasurably more sensible than trying to man and police a border that can't realistically be manned or policed imo.

What should the Tsoiseach have done?
Details please, line by line. Thank you

Bubbaclaus

Finty Lemon wrote: »

How many deaths in Ireland per capita?
How does this compare to the EU average?

Would that be a reasonable measure of efficacy?

Answer: Ireland 80.1 deaths per 100k
Countries lower than Ireland: 6
Countries higher than Ireland 25
Sweden, UK, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Belgium, Netherlands, Austria. All higher than Ireland.

No doubt Ireland could have done better but in relative terms the State is doing a good job.
Opening at Christmas, the preferred choice of all political parties, was a mistake.

Interesting information. Who are the 6 of the 31 better than Ireland, out of curiosity?

Loafing Oaf

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Interesting information. Who are the 6 of the 31 better than Ireland, out of curiosity?

My guess:

Germany, Finland, Iceland, Norway, Denmark, Czech Republic

James Brown

Ace2007 wrote: »

What is the viable option then? In the election just gone - you can see that SF did not put up enough candidates even in areas where they would obviously benefit from to win more seats. They knew that they could position themselves to win big and then push on next time - the only problem is that covid happened.

After years of Rhetoric, can they really come into power, and impose cuts and increase taxes to pay for this mess? I've asked many times on here what is SF's plan for living with covid - and no one can tell me - because they don't publish any material themselves - why is that? Why not tell the people what they would do differently to get us out of this mess and get the economy open?

Look, don't try put FF/FG/Greens abusing the Mother and Baby homes survivors on how the government was formed. FF/FG/Green are currently abusing the survivors. The alternative is to stop abusing the survivors.

James Brown

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Gosh - here you are laying it all out with confidence while believing the only choices open to the Irish electorate are FF/FG/GP/LP/IND - do you get all your info from Irish Times polls? There is a glaring commission from your list of 'choices' - one which many poster here have stated is their party of choice.

Gosh - five parties in a region that was in a state of civil war for decades and required both a ceasefire and a treaty to establish peace don't get on.
Who knew!

BTW - I'm playing FF/FG bingo here. Can I have a "populism" and a "Bobby Storey Funeral"?

Put your money on this lie coming up again:

blanch152 wrote: »

Sinn Fein lost all credibility on the crisis when Michelle was calling for schools to be closed when Mary-Lou was calling for pubs to be open.

The only common thread was that they were against whatever the others wanted.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Ah, the zero Covid strategy again, knew it would raise its head in another guise.

Can't be done in Ireland, porous land border, extensive business ties and travel with UK, trade running at 10 times the rate of places like New Zealand, etc.

You've failed to back up this 'zero covid' line. Again? You've never shown it once. You reference it alright, anecdotally, (made up).
The FF/FG/Greens make a balls, accuse people of expecting fantasy. It's the 'magic money tree' of the pandemic.

markodaly

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Over 2000 people dead with Covid this year and it's still Feb and govt cheerleaders telling us how well we are doing and but but butting SF and NI and and and....

Pathetic. Stone Cold Hearted Pathetic.

We had porous border when we closed it to protect cattle.

You do know that SF fully supported and welcome the re-opening before Christmas? Lets not re-write history.

What Blanch said is correct by the way, when the dust settles on Covid, it will be shown that we are well above the EU average in terms of cases and deaths, but for some, negativity is the name of the game, as if Ireland is always the worst in the world at everything when clearly it's not.

Perspective is free and doesn't cost anything.

James Brown

McMurphy wrote: »

What are you actually talking about, this wasnt "a Sinn Fein highlight" I liked back to an article in the fuppin BBC for Christ sake :eek:

The SDLP and Sinn Fein wanted non essential travel banned Britain - the north. Fact.

The Alliance party along with the UUP/DUP blocked it. Also a fact.

There was a request for some kind of backing from the Irish government to help get it over the line.

Michaél did the square root of nothing to help, also a fact.



Are you sure you're up to speed on this?



Immeasurably more sensible than trying to man and police a border that can't realistically be manned or policed imo.

FF/FG/Greens would rather let people die and side with the DUP than be seen to back a shinner initiative that might damage them in a future election.

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

You do know that SF fully supported and welcome the re-opening before Christmas? Lets not re-write history.

What Blanch said is correct by the way, when the dust settles on Covid, it will be shown that we are well above the EU average in terms of cases and deaths, but for some, negativity is the name of the game, as if Ireland is always the worst in the world at everything when clearly it's not.

Perspective is free and doesn't cost anything.

The FF/FG/Green government flouted NPHET advice to open and allow socialising.
How are we on length of lockdown? The longest by a good stretch?
We had the worst rates in the world at one point. No cooking the books or turn of phrase can hide that.
You are confusing negativity with concern and disbelief.

Whatisthisnow

The people of Ireland as the election showed, wont allow the FF/FG idea that everything SF is bad.
The longer Leo and Michael keep up this tactic the better for Sinn Fein.

No responsibility, always someone elses fault

Ace2007

McMurphy wrote: »

What are you actually talking about, this wasnt "a Sinn Fein highlight" I liked back to an article in the fuppin BBC for Christ sake :eek:

The SDLP and Sinn Fein wanted non essential travel banned Britain - the north. Fact.

The Alliance party along with the UUP/DUP blocked it. Also a fact.

There was a request for some kind of backing from the Irish government to help get it over the line.

Michaél did the square root of nothing to help, also a fact.

Are you sure you're up to speed on this?

Immeasurably more sensible than trying to man and police a border that can't realistically be manned or policed imo.

I understand everything you are saying, but let's look at it - if the Alliance party along with the UUP and DUP blocked it, what did SF want MM to actually do? Please explain this? It's nothing more than a cheap shot at MM, by saying Oh look we asked MM for help but he did nothing - when there is actually legally nothing he can do.

FrancieBrady

Ace2007 wrote: »

I understand everything you are saying, but let's look at it - if the Alliance party along with the UUP and DUP blocked it, what did SF want MM to actually do? Please explain this? It's nothing more than a cheap shot at MM, by saying Oh look we asked MM for help but he did nothing - when there is actually legally nothing he can do.

What did Simon Coveney 'do' during the Brexit negotiations?

He called out those who sought to damage ireland, he lobbied and he refuted arguments with the logic of Irelands position. MM ALSO had functions within the GFA and ancillary agreements to address issues of mutual concern at his disposal. It is called governing on behalf of your people.

James Brown

Ace2007 wrote: »

I understand everything you are saying, but let's look at it - if the Alliance party along with the UUP and DUP blocked it, what did SF want MM to actually do? Please explain this? It's nothing more than a cheap shot at MM, by saying Oh look we asked MM for help but he did nothing - when there is actually legally nothing he can do.

By 'cheap shot' you mean that SF and the SDLP asked MM to and he ignored them and that was called out? Or are you suggesting the whole thing was a trick just to take a cheap shot at MM by the SDLP/SF?
Didn't Donnelly ignore both SF and the DUP too?

McMurphy

Deleted User wrote: »

No confusion. Just journalists misquoting the Taoiseach, leading to the Tanaiste having to issue a clarification. No point being missed. No doubt there’s plenty who’ll find fault with tomorrow’s announcement.
They’re not just my leaders. They’re everyone’s.

Have to come back to this one Maryanne.

Leo disagrees with yourself and a few others in here it seems.

Criticism of communications taken on board - Tánaiste

Maybe stop polishing the turd folks.

Tánaiste Leo Varadkar has said that criticism of how the Government has been communicating is reasonable, has been heard loud and clear, and will be taken onboard.

James Brown

McMurphy wrote: »

Have to come back to this one Maryanne.

Leo disagrees with yourself and a few others in here it seems.

Criticism of communications taken on board - Tánaiste

Maybe stop polishing the turd folks.

Good man Leo.
He's now let the brethren know to stop making themselves look silly.

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

Free state has had north of 2000 deaths since xmas....the first (and only) proper test of the living with covid stragedy dreamt up by ffg


It deosnt work,its not going to work,you cant live with a highly transmissible virus,prone to expondential growth,you wont out run it via vaccine either.....we are realistically facing lockdowns until october at present rate of vaccinations (or opening up and shutting down yet again)


No country in the world has successfuly lived with covid....yous lot are deluded,if ya think norma foley,martin,varadkar and co,can dream up a stragedy to make it plausible to do so here

No matter,how good we get,one super-spreading assomatic case among a tourist could lead to 1000 plus cases quite easily (at an R rate of 2,assuming meeting 5 to 10 people a day iirc).......its utterly futile without proper quarantine,ffg have sold yous lot a lie,and your sick and elderly relatives/neighbours will pay the price.....too many have died this year

You are arguing with the facts, not with posters.

The fact is, Ireland has been one of the best-performing countries in the EU in terms of handling the virus. I know you don't like to hear it, but them's the facts.

The alleged mistake at Christmas is only because the UK variant was more infectious than thought. That wasn't known at the time the decision was made, which is why our performance relative to the rest of the EU hasn't changed that much, because they all did the same.

Still, though, it is good to see Sinn Fein adding Scrooge to the list of nasty people in their party.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

You are arguing with the facts, not with posters.

The fact is, Ireland has been one of the best-performing countries in the EU in terms of handling the virus. I know you don't like to hear it, but them's the facts.

The alleged mistake at Christmas is only because the UK variant was more infectious than thought. That wasn't known at the time the decision was made, which is why our performance relative to the rest of the EU hasn't changed that much, because they all did the same.

Still, though, it is good to see Sinn Fein adding Scrooge to the list of nasty people in their party.

Longest lockdowns due to an 'alleged' mistake at Christmas. Do you not accept or take FF/FG/Greens/SF/Lab/SD/PBP and medical experts on their opinions?
How about worst rates in the world at one point?

Still, though...something something Sinn Fein?

FF/FG/Greens should take responsibility, be accountable and communicate with each other and the public. I don't think that's unreasonable.

Finty Lemon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The porous border works both ways...there is as much movement across from this side as there is coming this way.

Once again you are using victims for political point scoring and refusing to look at the whole picture.

I agree, the border hopping was a 2 way street.

How many DUP voters do you reckon were crossing over and back with regularity? Not too many I would wager, not even to the tourist havens of Monaghan and Carlingford.

Indulge the conjecture for a moment, but it would be pretty clear that the traffic was more of a nationalist persuasion. That's just the way it goes. You could argue then that there was a failure of leadership in the nationalist community to set the standard. As there clearly was in the Unionist community too.

Whatisthisnow

blanch152 wrote: »

You are arguing with the facts, not with posters.

The fact is, Ireland has been one of the best-performing countries in the EU in terms of handling the virus. I know you don't like to hear it, but them's the facts.

The alleged mistake at Christmas is only because the UK variant was more infectious than thought. That wasn't known at the time the decision was made, which is why our performance relative to the rest of the EU hasn't changed that much, because they all did the same.

Still, though, it is good to see Sinn Fein adding Scrooge to the list of nasty people in their party.

Sinn Fein this, Sinn Fein that

What has Sinn Fein got to do with Govt decisions here?

NHPET advised open up household visits OR hospitality. The Govt ignored them and opened BOTH

That is why more people died in January

Finty Lemon

James Brown wrote: »

Longest lockdowns due to an 'alleged' mistake at Christmas. Do you not accept or take FF/FG/Greens/SF/Lab/SD/PBP and medical experts on their opinions?
How about worst rates in the world at one point?

Still, though...something something Sinn Fein?

Finland and Sweden heading for lockdown this weekend.
Longer lockdown = peoples health before profit

Still, something FF, something FG.

Yam, yam yam

Finty Lemon

Whatisthisnow wrote: »

Sinn Fein this, Sinn Fein that

What has Sinn Fein got to do with Govt decisions here?

NHPET advised open up household visits OR hospitality. The Govt ignored them and opened BOTH

That is why more people died in January

SF agreed with those decisions at the time. All parties wrong on that one