FF/FG/Green Government - part 2

Finty Lemon

Whatisthisnow wrote: »

Thats not Mary Lou

You stated she said she wanted to open pubs. You were asked for a quote or article she stated what you said. You cant get one because you havn't got one

Does the SF health spokesman not speak for the party?

Finty Lemon

Whatisthisnow wrote: »

Thats not Mary Lou

You stated she said she wanted to open pubs. You were asked for a quote or article she stated what you said. You cant get one because you havn't got one

Speaking on RTE's Today with Claire Byrne show McDonald said evidence does not suggest that restaurants and pubs are at as high of a risk for outbreaks as households.

She said: "What we're hearing, particularly in Dublin is that there is a problem with infection in our homes, with gatherings in homes.

"I think people have heard that message, I think therefore we need to be told what measures are needed to get a grip of that and to take the actions that keep people safe.

"But the same evidence suggests that in fact restaurants and pubs have not proven to be areas where clusters have occurred

Natterjack from Kerry

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Speaking on RTE's Today with Claire Byrne show McDonald said evidence does not suggest that restaurants and pubs are at as high of a risk for outbreaks as households.

She said: "What we're hearing, particularly in Dublin is that there is a problem with infection in our homes, with gatherings in homes.

"I think people have heard that message, I think therefore we need to be told what measures are needed to get a grip of that and to take the actions that keep people safe.

"But the same evidence suggests that in fact restaurants and pubs have not proven to be areas where clusters have occurred

The evidence also suggests that people are using their homes, while restaurants and pubs are closed. Which is a factor.

Whatisthisnow

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

The evidence also suggests that people are using their homes, while restaurants and pubs are closed. Which is a factor.

We can only focus on bits they want.

Mary Lou never had a say in this, its all on FF/FG/Greens that they went against the advice before xmas.

Leo basically saying NPHET didn't know what they were doing last year wouldn't have helped the publics thinking either

Whatisthisnow

https://twitter.com/TJRyan_77/status/1365074505769574407?s=19

I suppose he hasn't a clue

blanch152

Whatisthisnow wrote: »

https://twitter.com/TJRyan_77/status/1365074505769574407?s=19

I suppose he hasn't a clue

He asks a very good question.

People are polling 90% in favour of mandatory travel quarantine which will do close to zero to prevent transmission. At the same time they are polling strongly in favour of lifting restrictions and by their behaviours they are showing that they don't want to control the spread.

Whatisthisnow

blanch152 wrote: »

He asks a very good question.

People are polling 90% in favour of mandatory travel quarantine which will do close to zero to prevent transmission. At the same time they are polling strongly in favour of lifting restrictions and by their behaviours they are showing that they don't want to control the spread.

https://twitter.com/IrishTimes/status/1365047856801972225?s=19

What?

Bannasidhe

blanch152 wrote: »

He asks a very good question.

People are polling 90% in favour of mandatory travel quarantine which will do close to zero to prevent transmission. At the same time they are polling strongly in favour of lifting restrictions and by their behaviours they are showing that they don't want to control the spread.

They are not incompatible.

Use mandatory quarantine for all entering the country (with some exceptions such as freight drivers who would still require neg test) to prevent additional cases/new variants entering the country, a functional and efficient track and trace system to identify infections in the community so they can be contained with the aim of opening up internally.

Which is what NZ and Oz have done.
Mandatory quarantining and lifting of restrictions.

Whatisthisnow

Bannasidhe wrote: »

They are not incompatible.

Use mandatory quarantine for all entering the country (with some exceptions such as freight drivers who would still require neg test) to prevent additional cases/new variants entering the country, a functional and efficient track and trace system to identify infections in the community so they can be contained with the aim of opening up internally.

Which is what NZ and Oz have done.
Mandatory quarantining and lifting of restrictions.

Sinn Fein said keep the pubs open though so its their fault

Bannasidhe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

They are not incompatible.

Use mandatory quarantine for all entering the country (with some exceptions such as freight drivers who would still require neg test) to prevent additional cases/new variants entering the country, a functional and efficient track and trace system to identify infections in the community so they can be contained with the aim of opening up internally.

Which is what NZ and Oz have done.
Mandatory quarantining and lifting of restrictions.

Its incomprehensible people cant grasp this



Quite how,people can justify keeping whole country locked down,to facilitata not bothering with mandatory enforced quarantine is beyond me


Everyone in country,civil liberties have been shredded to facilitate tourists,who simply wont be coming this year anyway

Whatisthisnow

We will have 80% of adults with 1 dose or will we

https://twitter.com/FlaShBloGLive/status/1365114131385249792?s=19

Finty Lemon

Of course 90% of people would say they favour mandatory quarantine. Because it doesn't apply to them personally!

How many of that 90% would have agreed that their returning son/daughter be subjected to 2 weeks isolation at Christmas? They would have been crying down the phone to Joe Duffy et al! Meanwhile the majority of the same 90% want restrictions lifted, even though the virus circulates in the community. Risk bias overload.

NZ and Australia have had success largely due to the fact that they are island jurisdictions with no land border. The path through Belfast, well worn by the offspring of the 90% in favour of mandatory quarantine at Christmas, is a weak point.

If you want mandatory quarantine to deliver like NZ then by definition you must argue to close the border also. That is the real conundrum.

grayzer75

Whatisthisnow wrote: »

We will have 80% of adults with 1 dose or will we

https://twitter.com/FlaShBloGLive/status/1365114131385249792?s=19

The only dose I can see is that clown in the picture.

McMurphy

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Of course 90% of people would say they favour mandatory quarantine. Because it doesn't apply to them personally!

How many of that 90% would have agreed that their returning son/daughter be subjected to 2 weeks isolation at Christmas? They would have been crying down the phone to Joe Duffy et al! Meanwhile the majority of the same 90% want restrictions lifted, even though the virus circulates in the community. Risk bias overload.

NZ and Australia have had success largely due to the fact that they are island jurisdictions with no land border. The path through Belfast, well worn by the offspring of the 90% in favour of mandatory quarantine at Christmas, is a weak point.

If you want mandatory quarantine to deliver like NZ then by definition you must argue to close the border also. That is the real conundrum.

Imagine what might have been, had FFG offered any support to the Nationalist party's in the assembly when they wanted to try and stop ALL NON ESSENTIAL travel between Britain - to the North.

The North’s Deputy First Minister, Michelle O’Neill of Sinn Fein, said on social media on Monday night that the situation was “very grave” and the Executive “must meet tonight.

“There is no time to loose [SIC]in agreeing a travel ban from Britain. Belfast and Dublin must act together to keep everyone on this island safe.”

Covid-19: Sinn Féin calls for all-Ireland travel ban from GB

FrancieBrady

McMurphy wrote: »

Imagine what might have been, had FFG offered any support to the Nationalist party's in the assembly when they wanted to try and stop ALL NON ESSENTIAL travel between Britain - to the North.





Covid-19: Sinn Féin calls for all-Ireland travel ban from GB

This 100%.

Should have told the DUP there'd be no more invites to the FG Conference if they didn't play ball.

On a serious note, the DUP will be allowed to sink the north into violence again before the FF/FG nexus will criticise them. And we know why that is - party survival before the people.

Whatisthisnow

McMurphy wrote: »

Imagine what might have been, had FFG offered any support to the Nationalist party's in the assembly when they wanted to try and stop ALL NON ESSENTIAL travel between Britain - to the North.





Covid-19: Sinn Féin calls for all-Ireland travel ban from GB

Sure the Minister for Health in the 6 counties is still waiting replys to emails from Mr Donnellys Dept for a year ago

McMurphy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This 100%.

Should have told the DUP there'd be no more invites to the FG Conference if they didn't play ball.

On a serious note, the DUP will be allowed to sink the north into violence again before the FF/FG nexus will criticise them. And we know why that is - party survival before the people.

Easier to go down the mythical road to discuss New Zealand, manning and policing a border that is literally impossible to man and police, and discuss nonsense of whether we are actually an island nation.

Triangle

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This 100%.

Should have told the DUP there'd be no more invites to the FG Conference if they didn't play ball.

On a serious note, the DUP will be allowed to sink the north into violence again before the FF/FG nexus will criticise them. And we know why that is - party survival before the people.

the parties in the Republic have to work and build relationships with the DUP.
When (and not if) Ireland gets unified, the people they represent need to feel like they're not marginalised.
SF can't do this after their history.

What's going to sink the North into violence is this constant us vs them mentality and political representatives shouting RA/loyalist slogans constantly.
Both sides need to move on and start working together.

McMurphy

Triangle wrote: »

the parties in the Republic have to work and build relationships with the DUP.
When (and not if) Ireland gets unified, the people they represent need to feel like they're not marginalised.
SF can't do this after their history.

What's going to sink the North into violence is this constant us vs them mentality and political representatives shouting RA/loyalist slogans constantly.
Both sides need to move on and start working together.

Working with doesn't = being afraid of upsetting them. That's ridiculous.

Whatisthisnow

Triangle wrote: »

the parties in the Republic have to work and build relationships with the DUP.
When (and not if) Ireland gets unified, the people they represent need to feel like they're not marginalised.
SF can't do this after their history.

What's going to sink the North into violence is this constant us vs them mentality and political representatives shouting RA/loyalist slogans constantly.
Both sides need to move on and start working together.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dup-leader-defends-her-meeting-with-loyalist-group-over-protocol-40133307.html

No moving on with these folk

FrancieBrady

Triangle wrote: »

the parties in the Republic have to work and build relationships with the DUP.
When (and not if) Ireland gets unified, the people they represent need to feel like they're not marginalised.
SF can't do this after their history.

What's going to sink the North into violence is this constant us vs them mentality and political representatives shouting RA/loyalist slogans constantly.
Both sides need to move on and start working together.

'Both sides' is a nonsense in the last few years. The DUP only yesterday is openly formenting tensions. Edwin Poots inventing loyalist threats and in the last few days the party sitting down with proscribed organisations to discuss tactics.

Not a word out of Dublin about it. And that is not unique. Constant and vociferous criticism of 'one side' nothing about the other.
And they have a remit as signatories of the GFA so don't give me the rubbish about 'building relationships' either.
There is a difference between relationships and allying for political advantage. THAT is what is going on, SF represent a political threat to the power swap so it's to hell with the people on both sides of the border...it's party first.

Ace2007

McMurphy wrote: »

Imagine what might have been, had FFG offered any support to the Nationalist party's in the assembly when they wanted to try and stop ALL NON ESSENTIAL travel between Britain - to the North.


Covid-19: Sinn Féin calls for all-Ireland travel ban from GB

Is this not one of the main problems with SF, unless they get their way - they highlight what others won't do? They are in a power sharing agreement in the north, yet they act as if they are in opposition when other parties don't do with what they want.

SF play to their supporters and not to the general population.

SF have never once come out and stated that we should close and/or man the border. If the border was closed the border counties wouldn't have had such high numbers of the virus. Why have they never done this?

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Both sides' is a nonsense in the last few years. The DUP only yesterday is openly formenting tensions. Edwin Poots inventing loyalist threats and in the last few days the party sitting down with proscribed organisations to discuss tactics.

Not a word out of Dublin about it. And that is not unique. Constant and vociferous criticism of 'one side' nothing about the other.
And they have a remit as signatories of the GFA so don't give me the rubbish about 'building relationships' either.
There is a difference between relationships and allying for political advantage. THAT is what is going on, SF represent a political threat to the power swap so it's to hell with the people on both sides of the border...it's party first.

Bleeding heart stuff.
SF cleverly play one side against the other all the time, it's the unionists, the British, FFG.
Never take responsibility for their actions.
While they still go around showing their colours, big funeral demos, chanting up da rá and Tiochaidh ar lá.
Sweet puppies alright.
Not saying unionists aren't as bad, but the effort has to come from within, and apart from the fact that gunsnand bombs are gone now, mostly anyways, nothing has changed in either sides attitudes north of the border.

blanch152

Ace2007 wrote: »

Is this not one of the main problems with SF, unless they get their way - they highlight what others won't do? They are in a power sharing agreement in the north, yet they act as if they are in opposition when other parties don't do with what they want.

SF play to their supporters and not to the general population.

SF have never once come out and stated that we should close and/or man the border. If the border was closed the border counties wouldn't have had such high numbers of the virus. Why have they never done this?

It is a real problem. They have been part of the decision-making in the North that has left the backdoor to the South wide open and contributed to the scale of deaths down here. The toll in border counties being higher than elsewhere shows the spillover from the bad decisions taken in the North.

Bannasidhe

Ace2007 wrote: »

Is this not one of the main problems with SF, unless they get their way - they highlight what others won't do? They are in a power sharing agreement in the north, yet they act as if they are in opposition when other parties don't do with what they want.

SF play to their supporters and not to the general population.

SF have never once come out and stated that we should close and/or man the border. If the border was closed the border counties wouldn't have had such high numbers of the virus.

Whereas here in the ROI we have a Tánaiste (and head of one party in a coalition govt) consistently contradicting the Taoiseach (head of another party in a coalition govt) so pointing the finger at what an opposition party may or may not be doing in another jurisdiction that is governed under a very very different set of rules where another Parliament has a great deal of control is utterly pointless.

See, it doesn't fecking matter what SF did, do, say, claimed in ROI as they are not currently making the decisions.
What is happening here is down to the three parties in Govt so constantly deflecting to SF is frankly pathetic.

As for "playing to their supporters" - who are FF/FG playing to? Their funders?
And the GP - who they are playing to is a mystery as it doesn't seem to be members of it's own party given they are shedding membership like a jack russell sheds hairs.

Ace2007

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Whereas here in the ROI we have a Tánaiste (and head of one party in a coalition govt) consistently contradicting the Taoiseach (head of another party in a coalition govt) so pointing the finger at what an opposition party may or may not be doing in another jurisdiction that is governed under a very very different set of rules where another Parliament has a great deal of control is utterly pointless.

See, it doesn't fecking matter what SF did, do, say, claimed in ROI as they are not currently making the decisions.
What is happening here is down to the three parties in Govt so constantly deflecting to SF is frankly pathetic.

As for "playing to their supporters" - who are FF/FG playing to? Their funders?
And the GP - who they are playing to is a mystery as it doesn't seem to be members of it's own party given they are shedding membership like a jack russell sheds hairs.

So is FF tweeting that they voted for one thing, but their partner in government voted another way, and so throw their toys out of the pram because they didn't get what they wanted - which is what SF do in the north.

SF not in power in south - you are correct, yet every budget day they release their own budget and what they would do differently.

Yet here we are living with Covid for nearly a year, and not once have SF produced a document about how we are going to live with Covid going forward. - why is that???

Greens are only in government, because if they didn't - we would still have a caretaker government as there is no viable alternative - Alan Kelly wasn't leader of the labour party for more than 24 hours before he stated that they would not go into power.

No TD or individual hoping to be TD should be standing for election if they have no desire to form a government with any party. Every party in last number of elections has been guilty of this. SF said before they would only enter government has the majority party - no interest in being the minority party in power - every wonder why this is ? - perhaps goes back to if they don't get their way they would throw their toys out of the pram?

FF and FG had to swallow their pride and form a government. You can blame them for a lot of things if you so wish - but if the opposition parties between them can't agreed to form a government - what's the alternative - i keep asking and no one gives a reply.

Bannasidhe

Ace2007 wrote: »

So is FF tweeting that they voted for one thing, but their partner in government voted another way, and so throw their toys out of the pram because they didn't get what they wanted - which is what SF do in the north.

SF not in power in south - you are correct, yet every budget day they release their own budget and what they would do differently.

Yet here we are living with Covid for nearly a year, and not once have SF produced a document about how we are going to live with Covid going forward. - why is that???

Greens are only in government, because if they didn't - we would still have a caretaker government as there is no viable alternative - Alan Kelly wasn't leader of the labour party for more than 24 hours before he stated that they would not go into power.

No TD or individual hoping to be TD should be standing for election if they have no desire to form a government with any party. Every party in last number of elections has been guilty of this. SF said before they would only enter government has the majority party - no interest in being the minority party in power - every wonder why this is ? - perhaps goes back to if they don't get their way they would throw their toys out of the pram?

FF and FG had to swallow their pride and form a government.

I'm wondering if you understand a) How NI is currently governed, the limitations set on the 'power' of Stormont, the shot-gun wedding relationship between the Five power-sharing parties. b)The role of the Opposition in the sovereign state that is the ROI.

I suspect you understand these things very well.

But given the absolute dog's dinner the current govt is making of handling this pandemic (many of the issues are due to consistent chronic underfunding under the auspices of both 'main' parties in the coalition), have handled housing, health, Mother and Babies Commission etc etc that all you can do is point the finger at a party who have had absolutely no hand or part in governing the ROI since it's formation.

Bang of being terrified of SF off it all to be honest.
Now before I'm called a 'Shinner' (again) - I do not and will not be voting for SF but from where I'm standing they would be hard pressed to do worse than the current shower of utter incompetents so I won't be crying if someday they form a govt and I will equally be calling them to task when that day comes.

I know what to expect from FF and FG and I'm sick of the excuses, the whataboutry, the spin, the lies, the leaks, the pandering to powerful lobbies but ****e on the electorate, the cosy terms given to multinationals not available to indigenous businesses. Absolutely sick of it.

Ace2007

Deleted User wrote: »

Because you cant live with a highly transmissible air bourne virus prone to expodential growth??

Commonsense would tell yous this?

,ffg plan for "living with covid" at xmas,caused us to have 2300 dead and highest infection rate in the world at one point this year

The western world has failed its citizens with the responce to covid,it cant be lived with sustainably for any period of time....12 months into this,whats gone on here at xmas,and people still think it can,are pure and utterly deluded to a point of no return

So what the solution, what's SF Solution for getting out of this mess?

FG/FF/Greens have published what they want to do - many may not agree with hit - and there are plenty of issues, but the opposition just attack it - instead of coming up with an alternative option - again why is that?

Ace2007

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I'm wondering if you understand a) How NI is currently governed, the limitations set on the 'power' of Stormont, the shot-gun wedding relationship between the Five power-sharing parties. b)The role of the Opposition in the sovereign state that is the ROI.

I suspect you understand these things very well.

But given the absolute dog's dinner the current govt is making of handling this pandemic (many of the issues are due to consistent chronic underfunding under the auspices of both 'main' parties in the coalition), have handled housing, health, Mother and Babies Commission etc etc that all you can do is point the finger at a party who have had absolutely no hand or part in governing the ROI since it's formation.

Bang of being terrified of SF off it all to be honest.
Now before I'm called a 'Shinner' (again) - I do not and will not be voting for SF but from where I'm standing they would be hard pressed to do worse than the current shower of utter incompetents so I won't be crying if someday they form a govt and I will equally be calling them to task when that day comes.

I know what to expect from FF and FG and I'm sick of the excuses, the whataboutry, the spin, the lies, the leaks, the pandering to powerful lobbies but ****e on the electorate, the cosy terms given to multinationals not available to indigenous businesses. Absolutely sick of it.

So your sick of the current government, but you wont' for SF, so who does that leave - some independent that can't and/or won't do anything in power, or labour who will decided once the election is over if they want to go into power?

Regarding the North -yes there are 5 parties in power - but instead of working together and showing that they can work together they all just point score against each other.

Regarding the South - no party or individual should be going for election for the sole purpose of being in opposition - it's 100 times easier to be outside shouting for change than on the inside making decisions.

blanch152

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I'm wondering if you understand a) How NI is currently governed, the limitations set on the 'power' of Stormont, the shot-gun wedding relationship between the Five power-sharing parties. b)The role of the Opposition in the sovereign state that is the ROI.

I suspect you understand these things very well.

But given the absolute dog's dinner the current govt is making of handling this pandemic (many of the issues are due to consistent chronic underfunding under the auspices of both 'main' parties in the coalition), have handled housing, health, Mother and Babies Commission etc etc that all you can do is point the finger at a party who have had absolutely no hand or part in governing the ROI since it's formation.

Bang of being terrified of SF off it all to be honest.
Now before I'm called a 'Shinner' (again) - I do not and will not be voting for SF but from where I'm standing they would be hard pressed to do worse than the current shower of utter incompetents so I won't be crying if someday they form a govt and I will equally be calling them to task when that day comes.

I know what to expect from FF and FG and I'm sick of the excuses, the whataboutry, the spin, the lies, the leaks, the pandering to powerful lobbies but ****e on the electorate, the cosy terms given to multinationals not available to indigenous businesses. Absolutely sick of it.

Once again we have the false narrative of the dog's dinner.

By the public health metrics and by the economic metrics, we are are at least in the top half or close to the top of the league in the EU when it comes to handling the pandemic.

That isn't a dog's dinner, but it may not be the best either. In our defence, we have a porous land border, where thanks to the abysmal handling in the North, our border counties have suffered the most. It still remains the case, that despite getting a head-start on vaccines, the rates in the North currently are little different to the South, and over the course of the pandemic, the numbers up there are 50%. It is actually quite an achievement to have kept the numbers so low when there is such a sh!tshow across a porous border.