Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

road_high

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And yet members of the Government only 2 days ago found it necessary to remind Tony that they, not he, will be making the decisions on how we exit lockdown and next steps.

They also felt it necessary to express their unhappiness about NPHET using the media to influence/pressure the Government on these decisions

It’s clear Nphet are stepping away beyond their remit now and finally starting to irk members of government- once again something we have pointing out for months here.
Holohans presence and musings on Twitter for example are deeply problematic and wholly inappropriate for a government advisory body. This is no way professional means to communicate. This is what happens when a poorly thrown together group is cobbled up without very clear defined boundaries

charlie14

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And yet members of the Government only 2 days ago found it necessary to remind Tony that they, not he, will be making the decisions on how we exit lockdown and next steps.

They also felt it necessary to express their unhappiness about NPHET using the media to influence/pressure the Government on these decisions

Which just reinforces the point I made. NEPHT do not make decisions on restrictions, lockdows or anything else. The government does.

ceadaoin.

VG31 wrote: »

That is actually insane. You might expect it from China but not a "western" democracy.

Imagine asking the police if you're allowed into your own back garden, and thinking that was a perfectly reasonable thing that you had to do. Wtaf?

mandrake04

Whatsisname wrote: »

Saw South Australia has gone into a 6 day lockdown because of 36 cases. This tweet is truly dystopian.

[url]

https://twitter.com/SAPoliceNews/status/1328946386071654408?s=20[/url]

Australia has lost the plot.

Only 3 days now, they are ending it early as someone wasn’t truthful.

LOL reacting quickly and decisive is not losing the plot, it’s just doing what other governments needed to do..I think Europe needs to learn their lesson in regards to this very slow learners.

actually with exception of Victoria the majority of Australia living a very normal life and have been since May, there are some restrictions but when you can attend a 100% capacity stadium and Christmas Parties and everything is open it’s not too shabby.

walus

Whatsisname wrote: »

Saw South Australia has gone into a 6 day lockdown because of 36 cases. This tweet is truly dystopian.

[url]

https://twitter.com/SAPoliceNews/status/1328946386071654408?s=20[/url]

Australia has lost the plot.

Out of all ‘democratic’ countries they are the closest to a police state.

Stormyteacup

charlie14 wrote: »

Which just reinforces the point I made. NEPHT do not make decisions on restrictions, lockdows or anything else. The government does.

Technically correct but a pedantic point.

Similar to saying the president of Ireland makes decisions on the law - ultimately true as he must sign the bill.

But a bill has been proposed, debated and passed by government first.

Very like what has been going on with NPHET and the government.

A recommended course of action is made by NPHET based on a meeting without non-health government representation - and before that recommendation is put to whole government for consideration, details are shared with the media and/or models or reports tweeted to show how their recommendation is the correct and only course of action.

It’s not even kite-flying to gauge public mood, it’s a deliberate move to tell the public that theirs is the only safe course of action (which it may admittedly be - within their narrow Covid health remit), so that any alternative decision from government is already on the back-foot, and to go against recommendations is putting public health at risk. This obviously puts government in an impossible position.

NPHET are well aware of the weight their proclamations ahead of actual decisions hold. For seven months recommendations that came from an NPHET meeting became policy in their entirety, and this what they fully expect to happen, and without question. I have no sympathy for the government as it’s a situation of their own making. It suited their self-preservation mandate to abdicate all responsibility.

average_runner

normanoffside wrote: »

Another Hospital Outbreak.
More than 20 people with Covid in hospital who didn’t have it before they went to Hospital.
This adds to our ever growing number in hospital with Covid. If it wasn’t for these outbreaks we’d have single figure in hospital with Covid.

It was Probably caused by the average person going to work according to Herr Holohan

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/south-dublin-hospital-reports-covid-19-outbreak-as-more-than-20-patients-test-positive-1.4414171

First before we react, what are the facts on how it got in?

pjohnson

walus wrote: »

Out of all ‘democratic’ countries they are the closest to a police state.

Been a while since I saw "Police State" bandied about.

Good memories.

patnor1011

Interesting stuff for people who succumbed to fear without ever thinking if they really do have a reason for it.
For it to work you put in some US zipcode and scare yourself even more (in very rare instances) or realize you perhaps should not be so afraid.
Covid risk calculator:

https://south-dakota.covid-age.com/

Couple south dacota zipcodes to start you off: 57001, 57002, 57003.... pick any number up to 57700

the kelt

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Technically correct but a pedantic point.

Similar to saying the president of Ireland makes decisions on the law - ultimately true as he must sign the bill.

But a bill has been proposed, debated and passed by government first.

Very like what has been going on with NPHET and the government.

A recommended course of action is made by NPHET based on a meeting without non-health government representation - and before that recommendation is put to whole government for consideration, details are shared with the media and/or models or reports tweeted to show how their recommendation is the correct and only course of action.

It’s not even kite-flying to gauge public mood, it’s a deliberate move to tell the public that theirs is the only safe course of action (which it may admittedly be - within their narrow Covid health remit), so that any alternative decision from government is already on the back-foot, and to go against recommendations is putting public health at risk. This obviously puts government in an impossible position.

NPHET are well aware of the weight their proclamations ahead of actual decisions hold. For seven months recommendations that came from an NPHET meeting became policy in their entirety, and this what they fully expect to happen, and without question. I have no sympathy for the government as it’s a situation of their own making. It suited their self-preservation mandate to abdicate all responsibility.

Well said, it’s amazing how many people don’t actually look at the process and keep with the mantra they only advise, they only advise.

The kite flying and publicity afforded to NPHET is a huge problem.

Cork2021

the kelt wrote: »

Well said, it’s amazing how many people don’t actually look at the process and keep with the mantra they only advise, they only advise.

The kite flying and publicity afforded to NPHET is a huge problem.

It’s a massive problem and it’s being reported on the front page of the Examiner this morning that ministers and other TDs have said Tony and co need to reel themselves in

facehugger99

Top story on RTE is Dr Death sot-so-subtly threatening the Irish people with extended L5 unless we "get back on track" in the next 2 weeks.

Who has elected this arsehole to dictate to us on the national airwaves about what will happen in 2 weeks? He should only be advising Govt directly and instead we have RTE breathlessly reporting on his every musing.

It is all the more infuriating because 'getting back on track' would involve sorting out the mess in the health service which despite billions of investment and months of warning in still unable to cope with our tiny hospitalisation numbers and is also where most of the new cases are coming from.

Maybe sort that our first Tony before you threaten businesses and normal people with more of your useless lockdown mantra!

Penfailed

facehugger99 wrote: »

Top story on RTE is Dr Death sot-so-subtly threatening the Irish people with extended L5 unless we "get back on track" in the next 2 weeks.

Who has elected this arsehole to dictate to us on the national airwaves about what will happen in 2 weeks? He should only be advising Govt directly and instead we have RTE breathlessly reporting on his every musing.

It is all the more infuriating because 'getting back on track' would involve sorting out the mess in the health service which despite billions of investment and months of warning in still unable to cope with our tiny hospitalisation numbers and is also where most of the new cases are coming from.

Maybe sort that our first Tony before you threaten businesses and normal people with more of your useless lockdown mantra!

You should direct your anger at RTE in that case. They're the ones giving him airtime.

Cork2021

How is this already being reported. 1 week if we are all on our best behaviour Mein Führer Tony will let us go to my parents whose with the kids! Thanks so much prick

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/plan-to-lift-home-visit-restrictions-for-week-of-christmas-39768600.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=seeding&fbclid=IwAR3yBOCViViM4y-JTHOg5rJN5wqHPO3vc5B97Tjmm7tYV9h5n5tOktVXD4Y

bucketybuck

Thierry12 wrote: »

Won't be a word on this and the 12,000 health care workers that been infected by Covid

Tony Holohan and yet another medical scandal, say it ain't so!

weldoninhio

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

Don't worry if something goes wrong it'll be the public's fault

Media will be instructed to stockpile pics of people outdoor drinking until the **** hits the fan in Nursing Homes again.

bucketybuck

Cork2021 wrote: »

How is this already being reported. 1 week if we are all on our best behaviour Mein Führer Tony will let us go to my parents whose with the kids! Thanks so much prick

Its laughable, because we all know damn well that everybody will be travelling home at christmas whether NPHET like it or not.

They are going to let us visit our family at christmas? Who are they fooling, they have no ****ing choice in the matter.

emo72

How the **** they are letting them do their daily press conference is beyond me. The plug needs to be pulled on that immediately.

It's hurting the national psyche, daily beatings from Tony.

It would be better if he actually worked on protecting care homes and hospitals, rather than spending hours everyday preparing for press conference.

prunudo

Cork2021 wrote: »

How is this already being reported. 1 week if we are all on our best behaviour Mein Führer Tony will let us go to my parents whose with the kids! Thanks so much prick

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/plan-to-lift-home-visit-restrictions-for-week-of-christmas-39768600.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=seeding&fbclid=IwAR3yBOCViViM4y-JTHOg5rJN5wqHPO3vc5B97Tjmm7tYV9h5n5tOktVXD4Y

The government have to be very careful how they play this, it won't take much for them to completely loose the public.
I don't believe it should be a free for all on Dec 1st but there needs to be opening of retail, hairdressing and relaxation of household visits at a bare minimum.

Peter Flynt

People will be asked to restrict themselves to one main gathering over Christmas with THEIR FAMILIES.

As someone working in a school with 1000+ people with social distancing not possible I have to laugh.

Holohan, Varadkar, Nolan, Martin, Glynn and all the other shysters can go f**k off.

I'll meet who I want and when I want over Xmas.

prunudo

emo72 wrote: »

How the **** they are letting them do their daily press conference is beyond me. The plug needs to be pulled on that immediately.

It's hurting the national psyche, daily beatings from Tony.

It would be better if he actually worked on protecting care homes and hospitals, rather than spending hours everyday preparing for press conference.

Not disagreeing with your points but the press briefings are only twice a week. Problem is the tweets and other reports are constant.

patnor1011

Despite Vaccine Hope, Travel Spending Won't Recover Until 2024

Despite the positive news surrounding drugmaker Pfizer and Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine development, along with encouraging results from Oxford-AstraZeneca's vaccine, people should realize that vaccines may not revert today's chaotic world to pre-covid times.

For instance, Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates warned Tuesday at the New York Times' Dealbook conference that the virus pandemic will fundamentally reshape business travel and the office experience forever.

Gates said, "my prediction would be that over 50% of business travel and over 30% of days in the office will go away."

He added, "We will go to the office somewhat, we'll do some business travel, but dramatically less."

What Gates suggests is that structural change, such as video conferencing and remote working, will fundamentally change how corporations conduct business. These changes will have negative impacts on the travel industry and commercial real estate.

Given some of the structural changes in play - it's becoming clear that a vaccine will not be the saving grace as pitched by Wall Street and the Trump administration. The freight train of structural change has left the station as a new economic order is being laid down for the decade ahead and will produce permanent declines for specific industries.

The air travel industry will be one of those to experience a slump that could last for years. Business travel, the backbone of air travel demand, as Gates explains above, will be halved.

For more clarity on this topic, the U.S. Travel Association (USTA) projects travel spending will decline by more than $500 billion in 2020 and may not recover back to pre-covid levels until 2024.

USTA said the dramatic decline in travel spending reflects the plunge in business travel. The group said the travel industry has lost 40%, or 3.5 million jobs, and warned more than one million jobs could be lost if additional government bailouts aren't seen by year-end.

The pessimistic forecast comes as vaccine headlines have generated buzz on Wall Street of an imminent economic recovery. Still, as we highlighted above, no matter what vaccines are commercialized and distributed, there are structural changes underway that will forever reshape how the economy functions.

The development of vaccines is the old "chase the carrot" trick used by the government and Wall Street to remind people how these wonder drugs could take us back to pre-covid days. Just like a carrot was tied to a stick in front of a wagon's mule to make them step forward and walk ahead ... the mule was never able to reach the carrot.

Goodbye cheap air travel and cheap holidays it was good while it lasted

_Kaiser_

Newstalk said there a few minutes ago that the R number (remember that and how it was the key number not that long ago) is around 0.8/9, yet this morning's NPHET interview still peddling the 'need to do more' narrative.

Report a few minutes earlier about Gardai increasing patrols in parks etc and more checkpoints over the next few days and a quote from some former Garda a few minutes earlier about how it's an offence not to give your details with fines and threats of arrest mentioned.

And to top it off, the Indo saying that we will be "let" see family the week of Christmas!

Enough is enough. If people haven't already done so, I'd encourage you all to mail your government TD's and express your concerns over this "plan". Don't rant, be polite, but make your feelings known. These people and groups need to be reminded that they represent and work for us - not the other way around.

SNNUS

I wonder did they ramp up ICU beds in this 6 week lockdown..

funnydoggy

SNNUS wrote: »

I wonder did they ramp up ICU beds in this 6 week lockdown..

Be proactive you mean?


Are we on about the same NPHET? :pac::D

BeefeaterHat

patnor1011 wrote: »

Despite Vaccine Hope, Travel Spending Won't Recover Until 2024

Despite the positive news surrounding drugmaker Pfizer and Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine development, along with encouraging results from Oxford-AstraZeneca's vaccine, people should realize that vaccines may not revert today's chaotic world to pre-covid times.

For instance, Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates warned Tuesday at the New York Times' Dealbook conference that the virus pandemic will fundamentally reshape business travel and the office experience forever.

Gates said, "my prediction would be that over 50% of business travel and over 30% of days in the office will go away."

He added, "We will go to the office somewhat, we'll do some business travel, but dramatically less."

What Gates suggests is that structural change, such as video conferencing and remote working, will fundamentally change how corporations conduct business. These changes will have negative impacts on the travel industry and commercial real estate.

Given some of the structural changes in play - it's becoming clear that a vaccine will not be the saving grace as pitched by Wall Street and the Trump administration. The freight train of structural change has left the station as a new economic order is being laid down for the decade ahead and will produce permanent declines for specific industries.

The air travel industry will be one of those to experience a slump that could last for years. Business travel, the backbone of air travel demand, as Gates explains above, will be halved.

For more clarity on this topic, the U.S. Travel Association (USTA) projects travel spending will decline by more than $500 billion in 2020 and may not recover back to pre-covid levels until 2024.

USTA said the dramatic decline in travel spending reflects the plunge in business travel. The group said the travel industry has lost 40%, or 3.5 million jobs, and warned more than one million jobs could be lost if additional government bailouts aren't seen by year-end.

The pessimistic forecast comes as vaccine headlines have generated buzz on Wall Street of an imminent economic recovery. Still, as we highlighted above, no matter what vaccines are commercialized and distributed, there are structural changes underway that will forever reshape how the economy functions.

The development of vaccines is the old "chase the carrot" trick used by the government and Wall Street to remind people how these wonder drugs could take us back to pre-covid days. Just like a carrot was tied to a stick in front of a wagon's mule to make them step forward and walk ahead ... the mule was never able to reach the carrot.

Goodbye cheap air travel and cheap holidays it was good while it lasted

I think the air travel sector is simply too big to not bounce back. People are chomping at the bit to get abroad ASAP and if fares increase too much, airlines will only shoot themselves in the foot. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part

Cork2021

We’ve been warned!!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-progress-stalls-and-r-number-rises-as-nphet-warns-a-lot-depends-on-the-next-few-days-1.4413946?mode=amp&fbclid=IwAR2jxId6ReQfbccF9aIrsyHtaFRV6_CYVPA8M5_WjW8mZiNkMHLdNpEUfKc

Stormyteacup

UK moving already to propose public sector pay freeze. Only a matter of time until they begin their campaign here.

Maybe then it will become evident how ‘in it together’ we really are.

Creative strategies and cleverly named tax schemes won’t disguise the financial hit coming for many so far unaffected.

Damage is done but it’s still in people’s best interests to push for alternative strategies for living with Covid.

kippy

Stormyteacup wrote: »

UK moving already to propose public sector pay freeze. Only a matter of time until they begin their campaign here.

Maybe then it will become evident how ‘in it together’ we really are.

Creative strategies and cleverly named tax schemes won’t disguise the financial hit coming for many so far unaffected.

Damage is done but it’s still in people’s best interests to push for alternative strategies for living with Covid.

If there are people in this country who think this won't have a financial implication for them at some point, I'd be very surprised.

Patrick2010

SNNUS wrote: »

I wonder did they ramp up ICU beds in this 6 week lockdown..

Figures from September...

• Pre-Covid capacity: 225
• Temporary surge capacity: 354
• Current permanent capacity: 280
• Capacity after Winter Plan funding: 297

We have currently 32 patients with Covid in ICU so unless theres a real surge we should be ok.