Amazed by people buying new oil burners right now

Gumbo

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Nope oil.

Changing over to gas in rural Ireland wasn’t even in my thoughts. Digging up the garden and trying to reinstate it back to the way it was, chasing through a large concrete area that is only down a few years and having to look at a bodged part in the middle of it, probably only one gas delivery driver covering a vast area, you can’t go up to the petrol station for a drum of heating gas in an emergency.

I’m happy with my new condensing boiler. More efficient than the labour, materials, machinery and money needed to change to anything else.

Would you consider A2W?

Gumbo

Deleted User wrote: »

Why is that then ? Most People don't want to hang around for 30-40 mins while their car charges, add 20 odd mins more when the battery is cold. If there are charger queues etc, if the oil companies want to they have the cash to flood every Petrol station with Hydrogen pumps once the market is there for it.

Fuel cells are good enough today for passenger cars, they haven't yet got the power density of the best batteries but this is where fuel cell will be combined with a battery and it will work like a BMW i3 Rex where the generator will take over when needed.

There is nothing on the radar to make EV charging a legal right so they can't be prevented by management companies and land lords from installing charge points and will need a suitable alternative for recharging.

Most people won’t have to use the public network.

Gumbo

Gumbo wrote: »

Would you consider A2W?

You’re looking at between 8,000 and 13,000 euro. Even taking grant out of that it’s way too expensive.

We’re way off topic.

Busman Paddy Lasty

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why is that then ? Most People don't want to hang around for 30-40 mins while their car charges, add 20 odd mins more when the battery is cold. If there are charger queues etc, if the oil companies want to they have the cash to flood every Petrol station with Hydrogen pumps once the market is there for it.

Fuel cells are good enough today for passenger cars, they haven't yet got the power density of the best batteries but this is where fuel cell will be combined with a battery and it will work like a BMW i3 Rex where the generator will take over when needed.

There is nothing on the radar to make EV charging a legal right so they can't be prevented by management companies and land lords from installing charge points and will need a suitable alternative for recharging.

BEVs are on the market now with a similar range to HFCVs so that's what I mean by not needed. Hydrogen is wanted, yes but not needed.

Oil companies are in the business of making money so a national fleet of EVs is bad for business.

smellyoldboot

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

A hydrogen filling station exploded in Norway. Massive explosion and the other three hydrogen stations were shut down on safety concerns.

A pressurised tank of one of the most volatile molecules on earth is not a good idea.

Also, hydrogen fuel cell cars are still battery electric vehicles. The fuel cell charges the battery on the go and the range is crap anyway.

For now, but hydrogen is the most combustible and efficient fuel we could at least theoretically use for mass transport. We just need to find workarounds Vis a Vis it's relative volatility.

There was a period in the 70s/80s when Turbo Chargers were in vogue and fires in petrol cars were a lot more common. We learn and improve as we go.

cnocbui

Gumbo wrote: »

Most people won’t have to use the public network.

Then an adequate public network will never be built due to it being uneconomic.

liamog

smellyoldboot wrote: »

For now, but hydrogen is the most combustible and efficient fuel we could at least theoretically use for mass transport. We just need to find workarounds Vis a Vis it's relative volatility

Combusting hydrogen is a pretty poor way to use it, fuel cell vehicles are a different tech that generates electricity from combining hydrogen and oxygen.

Gumbo

cnocbui wrote: »

Then an adequate public network will never be built due to it being uneconomic.

And if it’s not needed then it’s uneconomic. I agree.
I don’t use the public network. It others may need it. Same way I don’t need an M50 tag on my ICE. We all have different requirements and that’s not going to change.

I think I still have my €20 credit on my eCars account from when I signed up for that just in case time.

But I agree there should some form of large mass chargers on all major routes around the country to give the people that want to travel that option. Proper stations with 10-20 points like Tesla do.

Gumbo

Gumbo wrote: »

Most people won’t have to use the public network.

Gumbo wrote: »

And if it’s not needed then it’s uneconomic. I agree.
I don’t use the public network. It others may need it. Same way I don’t need an M50 tag on my ICE. We all have different requirements and that’s not going to change.

I think I still have my €20 credit on my eCars account from when I signed up for that just in case time.

But I agree there should some form of large mass chargers on all major routes around the country to give the people that want to travel that option. Proper stations with 10-20 points like Tesla do.

Most People will charge at home most of the time, yes, however, when away from home the Infrastructure is just not good enough. + there's many People who will not be able to charge from home.

I don't think they'd fancy sitting in a queue and then having to wait 30-50 mins for a charge.

Gumbo

Deleted User wrote: »

Most People will charge at home most of the time, yes, however, when away from home the Infrastructure is just not good enough. + there's many People who will not be able to charge from home.

I don't think they'd fancy sitting in a queue and then having to wait 30-50 mins for a charge.

Existing apartment structures is a big problem and town house construction (no front garden).

Current regs have the provisions in place even for town houses so hopefully going forward it’s sorted.

I also haven’t seen many ques for the chargers since charging (parden the pun) came in. In fact, I pass 1 triple head and 6 22kw points every day 2 or 3 times going to work and out and about for work and I’m yet to see anyone plugged in, never mind waiting.

Busman Paddy Lasty

smellyoldboot wrote: »

For now, but hydrogen is the most combustible and efficient fuel we could at least theoretically use for mass transport. We just need to find workarounds Vis a Vis it's relative volatility.

There was a period in the 70s/80s when Turbo Chargers were in vogue and fires in petrol cars were a lot more common. We learn and improve as we go.

The volatility is a major problem though. Engine fires are extremely slow burning compared to an explosion.

Where hydrogen is made from renewables I would rather a state of the art hydrogen fuelled power plant over hundreds of thousands of hydrogen tanks being driven around the country by morons, myself included!

Gumbo

Gumbo wrote: »

Existing apartment structures is a big problem and town house construction (no front garden).

Current regs have the provisions in place even for town houses so hopefully going forward it’s sorted.

I also haven’t seen many ques for the chargers since charging (parden the pun) came in. In fact, I pass 1 triple head and 6 22kw points every day 2 or 3 times going to work and out and about for work and I’m yet to see anyone plugged in, never mind waiting.

I see in Carlow Town regular queues. But anyway, when more and more People move to EV We will need more and more chargers to ensure they can charge up when they go away for weekends and all that when they need it the most it needs to be abundant and dependable like Petrol pumps.

timsey tiger

Deleted User wrote: »

My point exactly. Is electric that much more eco friendly than diesel or petrol?

How, can you be able to read and write, have access to the internet and still have to ask this question?

timsey tiger

RandomViewer wrote: »

Shower runs for 10-15 minutes, car will be charging for 6-8 hours, it's going to work out more expensive than petrol and diesel when you add the extra cost new and the three grand a year electric bills

I'll wager you are one of those people who were told as a young child that maths is hard.

timsey tiger

RandomViewer wrote: »

It's not 9c a Kw, that's before VAT , ground rent and PSO levies add in the 15 - 20 grand premium over the ICE version and one charge a week seems very unlikely,

From this are we to take it that you currently don't have electricity in your home?

cnocbui

timsey tiger wrote: »

How, can you be able to read and write, have access to the internet and still have to ask this question?

Most electricity in this country comes from gas. YTD, 61% of electricity generated was from renewables. Her question was valid and sensible. Your response is not, and displays a significant level of ignorance.

https://www.seai.ie/data-and-insights/seai-statistics/monthly-energy-data/electricity/

timsey tiger

cnocbui wrote: »

Most electricity in this country comes from gas. YTD, 61% of electricity generated was from renewables. Her question was valid and sensible. Your response is not, and displays a significant level of ignorance.

https://www.seai.ie/data-and-insights/seai-statistics/monthly-energy-data/electricity/

I'm not sure what you are on about, but you're certainly not answering her question.

garo

cnocbui wrote: »

Most electricity in this country comes from gas. YTD, 61% of electricity generated was from renewables. Her question was valid and sensible. Your response is not, and displays a significant level of ignorance.

https://www.seai.ie/data-and-insights/seai-statistics/monthly-energy-data/electricity/

Isn't that a contradiction? 61% from renewables means most is not coming from gas. Unless you have a typo in there as I suspect.


I do think that that question from maryanne1984 could have been answered more diplomatically but I share timsey tiger's exasperation at the level of ignorance of some posters and the supreme confidence a lot of said posters have in their ignorant views. maryanne1984's was a question so she is excepted from said posters.

copeyhagen

garo wrote: »

Isn't that a contradiction? 61% from renewables means most is not coming from gas. Unless you have a typo in there as I suspect.


I do think that that question from maryanne1984 could have been answered more diplomatically but I share timsey tiger's exasperation at the level of ignorance of some posters and the supreme confidence a lot of said posters have in their ignorant views. maryanne1984's was a question so she is excepted from said posters.

think its closer to 63, which is the max the system can handle. we could push it higher in the next few years.

meeeeh

garo wrote: »

Isn't that a contradiction? 61% from renewables means most is not coming from gas. Unless you have a typo in there as I suspect.


I do think that that question from maryanne1984 could have been answered more diplomatically but I share timsey tiger's exasperation at the level of ignorance of some posters and the supreme confidence a lot of said posters have in their ignorant views. maryanne1984's was a question so she is excepted from said posters.

Actually it's perfectly valid question. I'm not denying electric cars are more environmentally friendly but as far as I see there is quite a bit of different research with results that are either different or interpretated differently. There are also a few issues around human rights violations and wild life endangerment due to extraction of raw materials for batteries.

So yes I think the first question everyone should ask themselves is do I actually need a new car? And then decide what suits tgem and the environment. However I would also say that anyone who buys new car ever 3 or so years should zip up about environmental benefits of their choice.

liamog

meeeeh wrote: »

However I would also say that anyone who buys new car ever 3 or so years should zip up about environmental benefits of their choice.

Todays new car = tomorrows used car. There's no difference between 5 people keeping a car for 15 years each, and the same 5 people buying a car every 3 years (with the car trickling down), either way you need 5 cars. It's reduce, reuse, recycle.

eddhorse

liamog wrote: »

Todays new car = tomorrows used car. There's no difference between 5 people keeping a car for 15 years each, and the same 5 people buying a car every 3 years (with the car trickling down), either way you need 5 cars. It's reduce, reuse, recycle.

Not much knowledge in this whole thread but finally something that does make sense.

meeeeh

liamog wrote: »

Todays new car = tomorrows used car. There's no difference between 5 people keeping a car for 15 years each, and the same 5 people buying a car every 3 years (with the car trickling down), either way you need 5 cars. It's reduce, reuse, recycle.

Except that once there is big supply of used cars because so many people buy new cars often old cars are scrapped sooner. Or do 15 years old cars automatically self combust and disappear in any case? It's disingenuous argument that doesn't take into account human behaviour. But a new car if you want every three years but spare me preaching about environmental benefits because all you are doing is increasing consumption.

liamog

meeeeh wrote: »

Except that once there is big supply of used cars because so many people buy new cars often old cars are scrapped sooner. Or do 15 years old cars automatically self combust and disappear in any case? That's disingenuous argument that doesn't take into account human behaviour. But a new car if you want every three years but spare me preaching about environmental benefits because all you are doing is increasing consumption.

The used car is only worth as much as the person buying it, there's as much blame for the manufacturing of the car on the person who scraps their old car because they don't want to do an engine rebuild, than their is for the person supply new cars into the market. Either way it's not an EV vs ICE problem.

garo

Surely liamog you aren't arguing that people buying new cars every three years has no impact on car demand. The bigger the supply of used cars the more likely a car is to get scrapped before it is due. TBH though a much better public transport system would go much further in reducing the need for private cars than trying to shame people into not buying new cars. Of course you will get the usual suspects moaning about their taxes being wasted by Dublin Bus and CIE.


@meeeh: It is a valid question which was answered by Gumbo. And you can google the answer yourself. For all the exploitation that goes into extracting those minerals you have the long term impact of exposing millions to NOx not to mention the hastening of climate catastrophe.

RandomViewer

cnocbui wrote: »

Most electricity in this country comes from gas. YTD, 61% of electricity generated was from renewables. Her question was valid and sensible. Your response is not, and displays a significant level of ignorance.

https://www.seai.ie/data-and-insights/seai-statistics/monthly-energy-data/electricity/

I live in Donegal ,none of the electricity comes from gas, big hydroelectric plant outside Ballyshannon and about 300 wind turbines

RandomViewer

timsey tiger wrote: »

From this are we to take it that you currently don't have electricity in your home?

They don't send me paper bills and have messed up my online access, I get a text every 2 months saying what I owe, Have written and phoned asking for paper billing but they don't seem interested,

liamog

garo wrote: »

Surely liamog you aren't arguing that people buying new cars every three years has no impact on car demand. The bigger the supply of used cars the more likely a car is to get scrapped before it is due.

I don't see a distinction between a car with one owner its whole life, and a car with many owners. The problem is not person at the start of the chain. People who throw shade at the new buyer seem to ignore the fact the car goes on to have other happy owners. Its not the input of new cars that are the problem, if it was we wouldn't have so many used imports from the UK. The bigger issue driving cars off the road are the insurance costs for older vehicles, the car is either fit for the road (NCT) or it isn't.

Gumbo

RandomViewer wrote: »

They don't send me paper bills and have messed up my online access, I get a text every 2 months saying what I owe, Have written and phoned asking for paper billing but they don't seem interested,

That would be a breach of their obligations and reportable to the CER.
What provider are you with?

timsey tiger

RandomViewer wrote: »

They don't send me paper bills and have messed up my online access, I get a text every 2 months saying what I owe, Have written and phoned asking for paper billing but they don't seem interested,

So, you are paying ground rent then and getting an ev will make no difference to that. Have a think about yourself and what you're doing when you disingeniously tried to add it to the cost of ev ewnership.

Go on to one of those online price comparison websites and they will change your electricity provider for you, get you on the cheapest tarrif for you and reset your online billing woes all in one step. All you need is your mprn. Just be careful that there is no break fee in your current contract.