Amazed by people buying new oil burners right now

elperello

murphyebass wrote: »

Pfft hybrids are a half way house of no use to anyone.

Full ev or no point imo

On the other hand if there is no EV to suit their needs are they not better off in a PHEV which does the job than a diesel?

Insidious

Is it true that building an ev is more damaging to the environment than a standard petrol car? To do with the batteries? Also is there cheap clean ways to dispose of the batteries? Just curious.

Black_Knight

Insidious wrote: »

Is it true that building an ev is more damaging to the environment than a standard petrol car? To do with the batteries? Also is there cheap clean ways to dispose of the batteries? Just curious.

Yes it's more damaging than a standard petrol car. As soon as you're driving an EV it starts to reclaim and quickly surpasses petrol cars in terms of environmental benefits.

You don't dispose (like you would a petrol engine), you repurpose the batteries, or repair the damaged cells. They have a life far beyond being a car battery.

patnor1011

The thing which stops me from buying electric is the price. They are still way too expensive. The second issue is that if you hit and damage batteries and if they catch fire...

stoneill

EV, too expensive and not enough range.

Gumbo

patnor1011 wrote: »

The thing which stops me from buying electric is the price. They are still way too expensive. The second issue is that if you hit and damage batteries and if they catch fire...

I wouldn’t be worried about a fire.
Does your petrol engine catch fire much?

There’s equal chance between the 2 that can catch fire. I’ve probably heard about more diesels catching fire due to faulty EGR valves (bmw to name one!)

Gumbo

stoneill wrote: »

EV, too expensive and not enough range.

I said the same about my S3.
But it was a fun car to own.

User1998

murphyebass wrote: »

Pfft hybrids are a half way house of no use to anyone.

Full ev or no point imo

I do about 90% of my driving in electric mode and if I ever need to do a long motorway run to another county I just fill up and never need to worry about charging or planning my journey.

In the past year I’ve only spent about €200 on petrol and drove about 10,000km. If I had of bought the fully electric version of my car it would have cost me €5,000 more. Based on this years figures it would have taken over 20 years for me to see the benefit of full EV, and I’d have to deal with the public charging network and the hassle that comes with it.

garo

Good point. But isn't it utterly insane that a car with just the electric motor costs 5,000 more than the car that has both the electric motor and the ICE engine? I get that the electric only has a larger battery but still. 5k plus ICE engine should buy a lot of battery.

zg3409

patnor1011 wrote: »

The thing which stops me from buying electric is the price. They are still way too expensive. The second issue is that if you hit and damage batteries and if they catch fire...

Petrol is 10 times more dangerous than EV. Even if worst case the batteries overheat and catch fire it happens far more slowly than petrol in a petrol car after a crash. Petrol can go boom in seconds, even while driving, while EV smokes, gives dash warnings, and you have at least 2 minutes if not 5 minutes before any danger to passengers, unlike petrol.

Cost can be 80% lower than petrol running costs than EV. So sticker price vs real world depreciation, and repair and running costs are real total cist of ownership. I did back of envelope sums and an EV would save me 50 euro a week, and every week I delayed the switch would cost me 50 euro. So I switched as quickly as I could. I was at a sweet spot of 110km per day, 2 tolls per day, and in need of new car, old car was petrol guzzler. Used EVs from 5,000, decent range from 10,000, suit most people from 20,000. Prices will drop, but don't buy new non EV. Look at bank loans, credit union loans, PCP, . Look at hiring a car for long trips or loaning one from a friend.

In terms of phev they only really work for those with tiny commutes within electric range, say less than 20km per day, that have a home charger, don't have a second car for long trips and have done the sums. Those with short commutes won't save a worthwhile amount, to justify higher sticker price. Often fuel efficiency on longer trips is terrible and some switch on engine if you need to heat cabin. They have a lot of downsides , so open your eyes and research.

smellyoldboot

Black_Knight wrote: »

Yes it's more damaging than a standard petrol car. As soon as you're driving an EV it starts to reclaim and quickly surpasses petrol cars in terms of environmental benefits.

You don't dispose (like you would a petrol engine), you repurpose the batteries, or repair the damaged cells. They have a life far beyond being a car battery.

That's with current demand which is much much smaller than that for IC vehicles. Should demand for EV ever actually outstrip demand for IC the environmental cost of mass producing these things will really come to the fore.

I honestly think the Electric Car is re-flogging a horse that was dead 100+ years ago. They are not suitable/convenient for most people. The infrastructure doesn't and isn't likely to in this country exist to support large numbers of them. Resell values are tainted by the buyer potentially needing to fork out for a new battery pack.

Going down the wrong path with these imo. They're a fad item. Cleaner IC's and Hybrids should be developed for now and continued research into seeing if a stable hydrogen engine could be viable.

Gumbo

smellyoldboot wrote: »

That's with current demand which is much much smaller than that for IC vehicles. Should demand for EV ever actually outstrip demand for IC the environmental cost of mass producing these things will really come to the fore.

I honestly think the Electric Car is re-flogging a horse that was dead 100+ years ago. They are not suitable/convenient for most people. The infrastructure doesn't and isn't likely to in this country exist to support large numbers of them. Resell values are tainted by the buyer potentially needing to fork out for a new battery pack.

Going down the wrong path with these imo. They're a fad item. Cleaner IC's and Hybrids should be developed for now and continued research into seeing if a stable hydrogen engine could be viable.

A 10 year fad so far
Even the 2011 leaf hasn’t had a battery replacement so this pub talk of having to change batteries is nonsense. If that’s the case we’d never buy another bmw again because of timing chains, EGR valves and vanos issues but yet we don’t worry about have to change the engine in them when buying one. And yes, I’ve 2 BMW’s in the garden as we speak.

Gumbo

Gumbo wrote: »

A 10 year fad so far
Even the 2011 leaf hasn’t had a battery replacement so this pub talk of having to change batteries is nonsense. If that’s the case we’d never buy another bmw again because of timing chains, EGR valves and vanos issues but yet we don’t worry about have to change the engine in them when buying one. And yes, I’ve 2 BMW’s in the garden as we speak.

Wrong, there was someone here who replaced their Leaf battery, can't remember who now ? cost around 5.5K

Nissan also replaced several batteries in the US and I'm sure many other leaf 24 kwh batteries have been replaced by now due to the lower range to begin with loosing 20% is a big deal compared to loosing 20% in a 350+ Km range EV compared to a 100-120 Km range EV.

Batteries have gotten a lot better though mainly due to having so much capacity now cycling isn't nearly as much of an issue as it was on lower range cars.

cnocbui

Gumbo wrote: »

A 10 year fad so far
Even the 2011 leaf hasn’t had a battery replacement so this pub talk of having to change batteries is nonsense. If that’s the case we’d never buy another bmw again because of timing chains, EGR valves and vanos issues but yet we don’t worry about have to change the engine in them when buying one. And yes, I’ve 2 BMW’s in the garden as we speak.

Tesla reduced the charging speed on older 85kw model Ss: https://insideevs.com/news/441801/old-85-kwh-tesla-reduced-charging/

And people have reported that Tesla model 3 range was reduced by Tesla:

Bjorn Nyland's observations are certainly in line with what a lot of people have reported here across multiple threads. the range / battery capacity drop happened earlier this year about a month or two ago and it affected all variants of the Model 3 and cars with a wide range of mileage on odometer and a wide range of build months. Given the number of people reporting this and the fact that it happened around the same time period to such wide range of cars, it does not appear to be regular battery degradation or battery calibration issue - there is definitely something else happening here and the only reasonable explanation that makes any sense is that Tesla did something to cause this with one of the software updates.

https://forums.tesla.com/discussion/167932/range-on-the-model-3

There clearly are issues with battery degradation in EVs and some manufacturers are degrading performance to avoid having to replace batteries, which is pretty woeful.

liamog

cnocbui wrote: »

There clearly are issues with battery degradation in EVs and some manufacturers one manufacturer is degrading performance to avoid having to replace batteries, which is pretty woeful.

Fixed that for you. Tesla have a different approach to engineering than most manufacturers, this can be seen in their battery management they allow you to push the limits of battery performance but with a risk that things will degrade over time, or change after more data is available. Their are pro's and cons to the agile approach.

Most of other EV manufacturers take a very conservative approach using large buffers and lower peak charging speeds to ensure the customer is not impacted.

Kramer

Deleted User wrote: »

Batteries have gotten a lot better though mainly due to having so much capacity now cycling isn't nearly as much of an issue as it was on lower range cars.

Plus we now have a world class fast charging network, allaying any remaining range anxiety issues :pac:.

PHEVs for the win though, like your i3 .

Ash.J.Williams

celtic_oz wrote: »

Its as if the want to maximize their depreciation ahead of the electric avalanche



90% are legacy oil burners :eek:




https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/1001/1168707-simi-car-registration-figures/

my next car will be diesel ..anything else is a pain for huge mileage

Kramer

Kramer wrote: »

Plus we now have a world class fast charging network, allaying any remaining range anxiety issues :pac:.

PHEVs for the win though, like your i3 .

Yeah i3 Rex is great and battery life is proving great too.

Busman Paddy Lasty

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Going down the wrong path with these imo. They're a fad item. Cleaner IC's and Hybrids should be developed for now and continued research into seeing if a stable hydrogen engine could be viable.

A hydrogen filling station exploded in Norway. Massive explosion and the other three hydrogen stations were shut down on safety concerns.

A pressurised tank of one of the most volatile molecules on earth is not a good idea.

Also, hydrogen fuel cell cars are still battery electric vehicles. The fuel cell charges the battery on the go and the range is crap anyway.

ELM327

I bought a Tesla last year and post covid I'll be wfh doing less than 12k per year vs 50k+ before
The EV no longer makes sense and my next car (probably next year) will not be electric.

If I were to buy an EV what sort of money would be required to set up my home for charging it? Are the charging points all universal or do you have to buy an adapter to suit your car model?

Oh, and only started reading this thread as my boiler gave up a couple of weeks ago and we had to get a new one!

cnocbui

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

A hydrogen filling station exploded in Norway. Massive explosion and the other three hydrogen stations were shut down on safety concerns.

A pressurised tank of one of the most volatile molecules on earth is not a good idea.

Also, hydrogen fuel cell cars are still battery electric vehicles. The fuel cell charges the battery on the go and the range is crap anyway.

The Honda clarity has a range of 580km, so you are talking absolute nonsense.

Hydrogen is being touted as a means of transporting large amounts of energy from solar rich countries like Australia to other parts of the world:

Australian wind and solar farms could help Germany phase out its use of coal under a major export deal which also promises to create thousands of new jobs.

Europe's largest economy has identified Australia as a potential supplier of the vast quantities of hydrogen needed to decarbonise its heavy industry in order to adhere to the Paris climate accord and to achieve Chancellor Angela Merkel's goal of net zero emissions by 2050.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/germany-names-hydrogen-the-hero-of-its-post-coal-future-20200923-p55y7y.html

Germany has hydrogen powered trains in service and the UK has just introduced one for testing and development.

Airbus have designed passenger planes that are hydrogen powered: https://www.airbus.com/innovation/zero-emission/hydrogen/zeroe.html

And hydrogen is rapidly seeing adoption for eco buses:

The first of a fleet of 25 new hydrogen buses bound for Aberdeen left its manufacturer’s factory in Northern Ireland yesterday.

https://www.energyvoice.com/otherenergy/hydrogen/270103/new-hydrogen-bus-aberdeen/

There is a large and concerted global move towards hydrogen, not away from it, that is the reality.

Gumbo

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

If I were to buy an EV what sort of money would be required to set up my home for charging it? Are the charging points all universal or do you have to buy an adapter to suit your car model?

It can depending what charger you pick.
There are basic plug and charge.
WiFi.
Smart.
Solar integrated etc

There is also a €600 grant from the SEAI.
If your smart you can buy a nearly new second hand unit for €200. Spend about €200 fitting with a RECI sparks and still get the €600 grant so it costs you nothing.

But if buying new I’d expect it to cost about €300 out of pocket after grant.
Most EV’s are Type 2. So the type 2 charger I installed when I had a 2014 Leaf worked on my i3 and also works on my Tesla.

Gumbo

cnocbui wrote: »

The Honda clarity has a range of 580km, so you are talking absolute nonsense.

Hydrogen is being touted as a means of transporting large amounts of energy from solar rich countries like Australia to other parts of the world:

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/germany-names-hydrogen-the-hero-of-its-post-coal-future-20200923-p55y7y.html

Germany has hydrogen powered trains in service and the UK has just introduced one for testing and development.

Airbus have designed passenger planes that are hydrogen powered: https://www.airbus.com/innovation/zero-emission/hydrogen/zeroe.html

And hydrogen is rapidly seeing adoption for eco buses:

https://www.energyvoice.com/otherenergy/hydrogen/270103/new-hydrogen-bus-aberdeen/

There is a large and concerted global move towards hydrogen, not away from it, that is the reality.

And there are just as many projects focused on electric.
So in the future we may see EV V Hydrogen. In the same way we now see petrol V Diesel.

People can shoes what they want. Just like they can now.

innrain

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

If I were to buy an EV what sort of money would be required to set up my home for charging it? Are the charging points all universal or do you have to buy an adapter to suit your car model?

couple of hundreds. There is a grant for 600 as well. You install a special socket rated for a higher current. Then the smarties come. WIFI, 4/5G, coffee machine ....

In EU there is an accepted standard socket called Type2. All new(ish) cars sold in EU are equipped with this.

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Oh, and only started reading this thread as my boiler gave up a couple of weeks ago and we had to get a new one!

I hope you got at least efficient gas. Used to be a grant for this too.

Gumbo

Yes, grant for gas boilers is gone. But significant grant for A2W systems now. €3.5k I think.

innrain

innrain wrote: »

couple of hundreds. There is a grant for 600 as well. You install a special socket rated for a higher current. Then the smarties come. WIFI, 4/5G, coffee machine ....

In EU there is an accepted standard socket called Type2. All new(ish) cars sold in EU are equipped with this.

I hope you got at least efficient gas. Used to be a grant for this too.

Nope oil.

Changing over to gas in rural Ireland wasn’t even in my thoughts. Digging up the garden and trying to reinstate it back to the way it was, chasing through a large concrete area that is only down a few years and having to look at a bodged part in the middle of it, probably only one gas delivery driver covering a vast area, you can’t go up to the petrol station for a drum of heating gas in an emergency.

I’m happy with my new condensing boiler. More efficient than the labour, materials, machinery and money needed to change to anything else.

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

The Honda clarity has a range of 580km, so you are talking absolute nonsense.

Hydrogen is being touted as a means of transporting large amounts of energy from solar rich countries like Australia to other parts of the world:

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/germany-names-hydrogen-the-hero-of-its-post-coal-future-20200923-p55y7y.html

Germany has hydrogen powered trains in service and the UK has just introduced one for testing and development.

Airbus have designed passenger planes that are hydrogen powered: https://www.airbus.com/innovation/zero-emission/hydrogen/zeroe.html

And hydrogen is rapidly seeing adoption for eco buses:

https://www.energyvoice.com/otherenergy/hydrogen/270103/new-hydrogen-bus-aberdeen/

There is a large and concerted global move towards hydrogen, not away from it, that is the reality.

The Honda range is dependent on the pressure the Hydrogen pump can work to, there are very very few capable of the PSI capable for that kind of range.

But yes, there is growing interest in Nuclear power as it's absolutely the only form of energy available that can give us all the energy we need without billions of wind turbines and turning green fields black with solar PV farms.

Poland is considering Nuclear, the U.K are building a new plant with another planned.

And Bill Gates Terrapower is working on a reactor that will work for 30 years with no refuelling needed because it's so efficient meaning waste output will be minuscule.

Nuclear can provide the power to produce hydrogen and electric cars can have a fuel cell as a Rex type system where it only comes on when the battery runs down.

But with terrapower or the A traveling wave reactor, as far as I remember it can burn up existing nuclear waste which would be really cool and what's left over as waste is relatively harmless.

Unfortunately a test reactor was due to be built a few years in China if I remember correctly but stopped due to the trade war between the U.S and China.

Hydrogen is the fuel of the future but for passenger cars less so. But I have to admit, an EV with a Fuel Cell generator is very appealing because it will completely eliminate the need for charging at public chargers and for those with no home charging, it won't be cheaper and the Government will screw you with tax the same as Petrol and diesel.

Busman Paddy Lasty

cnocbui wrote: »

The Honda clarity has a range of 580km, so you are talking absolute nonsense.

Hydrogen is being touted as a means of transporting large amounts of energy from solar rich countries like Australia to other parts of the world:

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/germany-names-hydrogen-the-hero-of-its-post-coal-future-20200923-p55y7y.html

Germany has hydrogen powered trains in service and the UK has just introduced one for testing and development.

Airbus have designed passenger planes that are hydrogen powered: https://www.airbus.com/innovation/zero-emission/hydrogen/zeroe.html

And hydrogen is rapidly seeing adoption for eco buses:

https://www.energyvoice.com/otherenergy/hydrogen/270103/new-hydrogen-bus-aberdeen/

There is a large and concerted global move towards hydrogen, not away from it, that is the reality.

Talking passenger cars being sold in Ireland here so cool your jets there. Model S 610 km and Model 3 560 km long range models. Tech for long range is already here and battery vehicle range will increase over time if the market demands it.

Trains, planes and HGVS are totally different category to passenger cars. Transporting hydrogen made from renewables is great (and I'd be in favour of a 100% renewable grid) but it's not needed for passenger cars.

Hydrogen fuel may be more appropriate for power station use and HGVS instead of spending a fortune installing hydrogen fuel stations for passenger cars.

Busman Paddy Lasty

Busman Paddy Lasty wrote: »

Trains, planes and HGVS are totally different category to passenger cars. Transporting hydrogen made from renewables is great (and I'd be in favour of a 100% renewable grid) but it's not needed for passenger cars.

Hydrogen fuel may be more appropriate for power station use and HGVS instead of spending a fortune installing hydrogen fuel stations for passenger cars.

Why is that then ? Most People don't want to hang around for 30-40 mins while their car charges, add 20 odd mins more when the battery is cold. If there are charger queues etc, if the oil companies want to they have the cash to flood every Petrol station with Hydrogen pumps once the market is there for it.

Fuel cells are good enough today for passenger cars, they haven't yet got the power density of the best batteries but this is where fuel cell will be combined with a battery and it will work like a BMW i3 Rex where the generator will take over when needed.

There is nothing on the radar to make EV charging a legal right so they can't be prevented by management companies and land lords from installing charge points and will need a suitable alternative for recharging.