Amazed by people buying new oil burners right now

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

You do realise you can thank the Green Party for the fumes?

Exactly, the Greens couldn't see beyond Co2 which is completely harmless to humans ( in the atmosphere ) whatever was the trend in Europe the Irish Government went along with while poisoning people with real pollution from diesel exhaust, the media being highly responsible for demonising Co2 making it appear as a pollutant which it is not.

We have too many old diesels on the roads today from 5+ years ago and even a 5 year old diesel isn't clean, it's only since diesel gate and the new WLTP that the E.U has sort of tried to clean up their act. Our standards for air quality are still a lot poorer than in the U.S which still bans most diesel cars.

The higher the cost of the car the less likely People are to change, be this new Diesels or Hybrids and for the life of me I don't know why the Germans are still heavily promoting the TDI, it's as if they just can't let it go.

timsey tiger

cnocbui wrote: »

You do realise you can thank the Green Party for the fumes?

Yeah, they brought in a policy coming up for 20 years ago along with FF, before the whole VAG group lies were exposed. There has been plenty of time to rectify it, not much effort has been made on that front, I guess I could thank FF, FG et al. for that for what it is worth.

liamog

liamog wrote: »

Nope, you can thank a conspiracy of automotive companies that convinced regulators all across Europe that clean diesel was a thing. You can then thank the Fine Gael government who did nothing to reverse the changes when the problems were exposed in 2015.

It was the Irish Government who went the diesel route because this is the way it was going in Europe, they didn't want to be seen to be doing something different, this is the Irish thing. Don't want to look bad.

There's no reason they couldn't have decreased taxes on Petrol cars and Petrol, there's no one with any form of Cop on who would suggest diesel is better. They only had to ask why it was banned in most of the USS ffs and still today except for trucks.

liamog

Deleted User wrote: »

It was the Irish Government who went the diesel route because this is the way it was going in Europe, they didn't want to be seen to be doing something different, this is the Irish thing. Don't want to look bad.

There's no reason they couldn't have decreased taxes on Petrol cars and Petrol, there's no one with any form of Cop on who would suggest diesel is better. They only had to ask why it was banned in most of the USS ffs and still today except for trucks.

At the time, we were looking for methods to reduce CO2, manufacturers and regulators were telling us that diesel was ok. We all know now that it's not true, but I place the blame in the hands of those responsible, the German automakers and their effort to hoodwink everyone, rather than a junior partner in a provincial european government over a decade ago who followed the prevailing wisdom at the time.

ELM327

CO2 was such a nonsense thing to go after.
It's not a pollutant and it is actually needed for trees to breathe.

If you wanted to go after something it should be the nox, the particulates etc. The stuff that actually does the damage.

cnocbui

liamog wrote: »

At the time, we were looking for methods to reduce CO2, manufacturers and regulators were telling us that diesel was ok. We all know now that it's not true, but I place the blame in the hands of those responsible, the German automakers and their effort to hoodwink everyone, rather than a junior partner in a provincial european government over a decade ago who followed the prevailing wisdom at the time.

It's got nothing to do with German automakers. For years before the stupid greens and Gormley got their knives out for CO2, I knew that diesel exhaust had been found to contain the most carcinogenic substance ever discovered - 3-nitrobenzanthrone - known since 1997. It was up to the second highest paid civil servants in the EU to at leas be abreast of scientific research and know as much as me and to push back at the politicians.

To say Gormley and the Greens were poor innocent victims of the evil Germans, rather than the truth: They were thick, is pathetic revisionism.

kaahooters

Deleted User wrote: »

They only had to ask why it was banned in most of the USS ffs and still today except for trucks.

where is diesel banned in the us?

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

It's got nothing to do with German automakers. For years before the stupid greens and Gormley got their knives out for CO2, I knew that diesel exhaust had been found to contain the most carcinogenic substance ever discovered - 3-nitrobenzanthrone - known since 1997. It was up to the second highest paid civil servants in the EU to at leas be abreast of scientific research and know as much as me and to push back at the politicians.

To say Gormley and the Greens were poor innocent victims of the evil Germans, rather than the truth: They were thick, is pathetic revisionism.

The Automakers are part of the problem because they were moaning that they couldn't reduce emissions so what did legislators come up with ? the NEDC car test which was a driving simulator which didn't reflect real life driving but was approved to shut the car makers up and pretend to the public that the NEDC test was a great way to measure the emissions of a car, commercial vehicles didn't even have to comply with this as their emissions were allowed to be years behind that of cars to keep the cost down while choking people.

Then Diesel gate came about, not only the Germans doing it of course as came to light later, very clever of Bosch but I've no doubt in my mind the auto makers requested them to make a cheat system.

But yes for many years the scientific community had been trying to make Governments aware of the health related issues related to Diesel exhaust and Co2 was never mentioned because it is harmless to humans, you couldn't make this stuff up if you tried.

Then the rise of Climate activists and Climatologists and the media demonising Co2 as the greatest threat to life on earth lol mad stuff.

ELM327

kaahooters wrote: »

where is diesel banned in the us?

It's not.


If I want to buy a ford pickup truck, or a dodge, or a chevy, I have a choice of a diesel in even the 1500 class, let alone 2500+


Same with cars, you can buy diesel cars, just americans tend not to as diesel has a bad name there (thanks Oldsmobile!) and gas is cheap anyway

garo

The Greens had been out of power for 9 years before they got back in this year. To blame them for the inaction of successive governments is just dishonest.


Also hilarious to read ignorant statements like CO2 is harmless and trees need to breathe CO2. Ever heard of greenhouse effect?

Then the rise of Climate activists and Climatologists and the media demonising Co2 as the greatest threat to life on earth lol mad stuff.

I can see where your forum name comes from Mad_Lad.

kaahooters

kaahooters wrote: »

where is diesel banned in the us?

Diesel cars, I meant TDI is banned, and why it wasn't such an issue in Europe because the emissions standards in the U.S are a lot higher here.

Sure diesel is used everywhere in trucks int he US.

garo

Deleted User wrote: »

Diesel cars, I meant TDI is banned, and why it wasn't such an issue in Europe because the emissions standards in the U.S are a lot higher here.

Sure diesel is used everywhere in trucks int he US.

False. Easily disproved:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/all-cars?zip=90049&makeCodeList=BMW&modelCodeList=BMW328DXD

tjhook

Why is there such heat over this topic, compared to the choice of Incandescent/CFL/LED light bulbs? I think people are more emotionally invested in justifying whatever expensive car purchase they've already made.

EV is the future. I bought a car earlier this year, and would have liked a PHEV (Full EV is probably a step to for for me right now). But the expense and lack of model choice pushed me to a non-Plug-in hybrid. Next time I change, I expect PHEV or EV will be an easier decision.

Technology changes and the world adapts.

There were probably similar debates in the early days of cars -
"Why would you be buying one of those new-fangled car things? My horse costs less to buy, has longer range, breaks down less, and doesn't need the petrol infrastructure that doesn't even exist yet".

JimmyVik

A few months ago my sister was changing her car. Shewanted to buy a Hyundai Kona EV.
She endep up buying a petrol Kona.
The price difference would make your eyes water.

cnocbui

eagerv wrote: »

Not sure if I agree with that comment, perhaps a number of years ago.
Cars such as the ID.3 are similarly priced to a Golf diesel auto but 204HP versus about 120HP.

You really should pick a petrol rather than a diesel for comparrison. I can't be bothered finding the Irish prices, it being such a bear, but Parkers lists an ID.3 as £38,880 and a Petrol Golf (Life 1.5 TSI Evo 150PS 5d) at £24,500. The petrol Golf is 1.1 sec slower 0-100.

In 2017, you could get the Golf GTI clubsport for £30,935, and it was 1.2 seconds quicker 0-100 than an ID.3

If the Irish price difference is significantly less, or reversed by taxation, then sure.

cnocbui

JimmyVik wrote: »

A few months ago my sister was changing her car. Shewanted to buy a Hyundai Kona EV.
She endep up buying a petrol Kona.
The price difference would make your eyes water.

My ex just bought a Citroen C3 petrol. My kids report it was because she wanted to get an ICE while she still could. She's an electrical engineer.

eagerv

cnocbui wrote: »

You really should pick a petrol rather than a diesel for comparrison. I can't be bothered finding the Irish prices, it being such a bear, but Parkers lists an ID.3 as £38,880 and a Petrol Golf (Life 1.5 TSI Evo 150PS 5d) at £24,500. The petrol Golf is 1.1 sec slower 0-100.

In 2017, you could get the Golf GTI clubsport for £30,935, and it was 1.2 seconds quicker 0-100 than an ID.3

If the Irish price difference is significantly less, or reversed by taxation, then sure.

Why should I? I am living in Ireland and can only quote prices I pay here.

liamog

cnocbui wrote: »

You really should pick a petrol rather than a diesel for comparrison. I can't be bothered finding the Irish prices, it being such a bear, but Parkers lists an ID.3 as £38,880 and a Petrol Golf (Life 1.5 TSI Evo 150PS 5d) at £24,500. The petrol Golf is 1.1 sec slower 0-100.

You are comparing the lowest spec petrol Golf with a relatively high spec ID.3 1st Plus, that doesn't fly round here, we only accept comparisons based on actual equivalence, you may as well say the Golf is overpriced because a Dacia Sandero is cheaper.

kanuseeme

"A few months ago my sister was changing her car. She wanted to buy a Hyundai Kona EV.
She ended up buying a petrol Kona.
The price difference would make your eyes water."

Bad choice there,

LOL think of all the tears shed over the polar bears and penguins and non working chargers.

schmoo2k

How bad are new diesels with the adblue stuff these days?

cnocbui

eagerv wrote: »

Why should I? I am living in Ireland and can only quote prices I pay here.

Because you could import from the UK

€24,184 for the Golf 1.3 petrol bought from the UK and €4,982 for the VRT is €29,166 vs €34,140 for the ID.3. that's a difference of €4,964, enough to buy 4,069 litres of petrol, enough to get you 75,850 km.

So given the 2016 annual average milage for Irish drivers of about 16,000 km per year, after 4.74 years, you will have broken even and will start to see a saving.

cnocbui

liamog wrote: »

You are comparing the lowest spec petrol Golf with a relatively high spec ID.3 1st Plus, that doesn't fly round here, we only accept comparisons based on actual equivalence, you may as well say the Golf is overpriced because a Dacia Sandero is cheaper.

No, I priced against the lowest priced ID.3 I could find on Parkers: https://www.parkers.co.uk/volkswagen/id3/hatchback-2020/150kw-1st-edition-pro-power-62kwh-auto-5d/specs/

I await your link to a lower spec cheaper ID.3 on Parkers.

Donegal Overlanding

EVs are useless beyond short trips. Just watch Long Way Up which is on Apple TV at the moment. You can see the very latest in cutting edge technology there and its awful.

Not to mention where all the raw material is going to come from for the batteries. EVs are so far from being environmentally friendly compared to keeping an older vehicle going. Thats why we are building the worlds first Discovery 130 using a diesel engine, with a diesel cooker, and a diesel heating and hot water system.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/srQsZcdkD9SXpEUD8

garo

Where's that facepalm emoji when you need one?

Gumbo

cnocbui wrote: »

Because you could import from the UK

€24,184 for the Golf 1.3 petrol bought from the UK and €4,982 for the VRT is €29,166 vs €34,140 for the ID.3. that's a difference of €4,964, enough to buy 4,069 litres of petrol, enough to get you 75,850 km.

So given the 2016 annual average milage for Irish drivers of about 16,000 km per year, after 4.74 years, you will have broken even and will start to see a saving.

Do them Prices include VAT when buying new?

Donegal Overlanding

garo wrote: »

Where's that facepalm emoji when you need one?

You cannot travel the world with an EV. Diesel or petrol are the only options, and it will remain that way for a long time.

liamog

cnocbui wrote: »

No, I priced against the lowest priced ID.3 I could find on Parkers: https://www.parkers.co.uk/volkswagen/id3/hatchback-2020/150kw-1st-edition-pro-power-62kwh-auto-5d/specs/

I await your link to a lower spec cheaper ID.3 on Parkers.

Just because the UK market is a bit behind times, doesn't make you correct.
VW still haven't released the base spec ID.3 to the marker, it has a smaller battery and less powerful motor. The Golf 8 followed a similar strategy where the higher margin cars were released first.

schmoo2k

liamog wrote: »

Just because the UK market is a bit behind times, doesn't make you correct.
VW still haven't released the base spec ID.3 to the marker, it has a smaller battery and less powerful motor. The Golf 8 followed a similar strategy where the higher margin cars were released first.

What is the cheapest EV you can get today (new)?

liamog

Donegal Overlanding wrote: »

EVs are useless beyond short trips. Just watch Long Way Up which is on Apple TV at the moment. You can see the very latest in cutting edge technology there and its awful.

I don't think anyone is arguing that the infrastructure is there for a cross country global trip, but when it comes to crossing the midlands of Ireland EVs on the market are almost certainly grand.

Just looked at the price of a GTD 200 HP DSG Golf, 47K, not a lot of kit for the price either. lol.