Amazed by people buying new oil burners right now

TheRiverman

I was speaking to a ESB Networks Technician recently who was doing a rural transformer survey for a future upgrade of 10kv lines to 20kv primarily for home chargers.He said it is likely to be two years or more before the upgrade will commence as the whole project will have to be costed etc.
It would be farcical to even think about buying an EV in rural Ireland now or anytime in the near future.The thought of the Green Party influencing more ridiculous tax increases on diesel and petrol cars makes me sick when there is no alternative anywhere in rural Ireland.

TheRiverman

TheRiverman wrote: »

I was speaking to a ESB Networks Technician recently who was doing a rural transformer survey for a future upgrade of 10kv lines to 20kv primarily for home chargers.He said it is likely to be two years or more before the upgrade will commence as the whole project will have to be costed etc.
It would be farcical to even think about buying an EV in rural Ireland now or anytime in the near future.The thought of the Green Party influencing more ridiculous tax increases on diesel and petrol cars makes me sick when there is no alternative anywhere in rural Ireland.

I live in rural Ireland driving 750-850 Kms a week mostly 100% electric.

Black_Knight

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I live in rural Ireland driving 750-850 Kms a week mostly 100% electric.

You're really ruining his narrative with talk like that.

The power issues in the North West is a bit of a bummer. EV trips to connamara and there abouts need some extra planning for years to come perhaps

Black_Knight

Black_Knight wrote: »

You're really ruining his narrative with talk like that.

The power issues in the North West is a bit of a bummer. EV trips to connamara and there abouts need some extra planning for years to come perhaps

Indeed, you're not wrong, this is why I have the Rex and would find it hard to give it up bit in reality we have a Diesel if I went back to EV only for the longer trips away from home for weekends etc.

Gumbo

elperello wrote: »

These guidelines apply outside the city centre.

I imagine that developers will go for the minimum no. of parking spaces.

Do you think this would affect the viability of EVs for the residents?

Also from your linked document ;

These locations are most likely to be in cities, especially in or adjacent to (i.e. within 15 minutes walking distance of) city centres or centrally located employment locations. This includes 10 minutes walking distance of DART, commuter rail or Luas stops or within 5 minutes walking distance of high frequency (min 10 minute peak hour frequency) bus services.

Based on my experience on every apartment scheme north of the Liffey in Dublin, they are getting parking plus visitor spots.

The document you linked is one of many documents the planners use when deciding on a scheme. They also have to abide by the development,plan, which sets out the standard for exactly how many parking spots etc.

So I see no risk to apartment owners in the future and EV’s.
If I was buying an apartment tomorrow, and I had a car, then I’d be buying in a scheme that has a car park. The same way if I was buying a car tomorrow, I’d buy the car that suits my driving, be it petrol, diesel, electric.

elperello wrote: »

I imagine that developers will go for the minimum no. of parking spaces.

Most do, which is one space per apartment and 1 additional space for every 3\4 apartments to serve as visitors spots.

Gumbo

TheRiverman wrote: »

I was speaking to a ESB Networks Technician recently who was doing a rural transformer survey for a future upgrade of 10kv lines to 20kv primarily for home chargers.He said it is likely to be two years or more before the upgrade will commence as the whole project will have to be costed etc.
It would be farcical to even think about buying an EV in rural Ireland now or anytime in the near future.The thought of the Green Party influencing more ridiculous tax increases on diesel and petrol cars makes me sick when there is no alternative anywhere in rural Ireland.

Why? Do rural residents not have standard single phase?

elperello

Gumbo wrote: »

Also from your linked document ;



Based on my experience on every apartment scheme north of the Liffey in Dublin, they are getting parking plus visitor spots.

The document you linked is one of many documents the planners use when deciding on a scheme. They also have to abide by the development,plan, which sets out the standard for exactly how many parking spots etc.

So I see no risk to apartment owners in the future and EV’s.
If I was buying an apartment tomorrow, and I had a car, then I’d be buying in a scheme that has a car park. The same way if I was buying a car tomorrow, I’d buy the car that suits my driving, be it petrol, diesel, electric.



Most do, which is one space per apartment and 1 additional space for every 3\4 apartments to serve as visitors spots.

In your experience are many new developments building in the infrastructure to provide chargers at each parking space?

kippy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I live in rural Ireland driving 750-850 Kms a week mostly 100% electric.

Problem is if 90 percent or s lot less I would guage, decided to to EV in the morning things wouldn't be as rosy for you.

Gumbo

elperello wrote: »

In your experience are many new developments building in the infrastructure to provide chargers at each parking space?

Yes. All of them are getting the provisions for future EV charging.
it’s generally dedicated ducting and board space for Charger and cables to be supplied at a later date.

The planning regulations only call for provisions at the moment in resi developments.

I can see them being operated by a management company and they’ll bring in easygo or similar to provide them unit and residents can register for a fob and be billed directly through easygo or similar company.

Gael23

In the long run of course EV works out better but the initial purchase cost of the car is still out of reach of a lot of people

celtic_oz

We all know the choice of EVs is not great at the MOMENT. But over the next three years there will be an AVALANCHE of EVs and some REALLY cheap.

second hand ICE oil burner prices will then drop off a cliff.

It really is funny how people cant see longer than their nose and try to justify buying NEW now, just wait or if you have to buy second hand.

kippy

kippy wrote: »

Problem is if 90 percent or s lot less I would guage, decided to to EV in the morning things wouldn't be as rosy for you.

Try that again, ?

meeeeh

celtic_oz wrote: »

We all know the choice of EVs is not great at the MOMENT. But over the next three years there will be an AVALANCHE of EVs and some REALLY cheap.

second hand ICE oil burner prices will then drop off a cliff.

It really is funny how people cant see longer than their nose and try to justify buying NEW now, just wait or if you have to buy second hand.

The last car I bought new I kept for 10 years. If you do that price drop really doesn't matter. Unless you need to change cars every 3 years because what would neighbours think otherwise.

The chan chan man

Reading through this, some EV owners come across as overly pompous and dogmatic. Some people like diesel, some like petrol and some like electric. You don’t need to try to convert people with “oh dear, where to start disagreeing with you...” and “educate yourself or you risk looking like a fool”.

It’s a method of fuelling a car lads, that’s all.

ToxicPaddy

I bought a car this year with certain requirements, due to those and my budget, an EV was simply not an option. Even most hybrids were not an option as they were simply out of my price range.

There are a lot of people going on about people shouldn't be buying this and what are they thinking buying that, for most it's a case of there isn't a financially viable alternative available and they have to go with what's available at the time and what they can afford to spend.

Standing on a soapbox lecturing people about how they should be only buying EVs and not diesels or petrol when it's simply not within their means is pointless.

I do plan on buying a second family car in thr future, an EV is definitely on the books but this could be 2-3 years away yet.

super_furry

The infrastructure just isn't there and it's hard to see any Irish government prioritising getting it to a place where it is.

liamog

super_furry wrote: »

The infrastructure just isn't there and it's hard to see any Irish government prioritising getting it to a place where it is.

Which infrastructure? The infrastructure for charging at home in rural areas (rural electrification was a 1940's scheme) is already there.

liamog

liamog wrote: »

Which infrastructure? The infrastructure for charging at home in rural areas (rural electrification was a 1940's scheme) is already there.

It is at home but it's when your not at home it's very inadequate.

Look at the ESB map of DC chargers, outside of Dublin most decent towns have 1-2 DC chargers @50 Kw.

Kerry has 1, Galway 2 ETC, none around the west coast. It's a pretty bad picture.

The whole County of Kildare has 4 ESB DC chargers, yes Ionity has come online adding 8 DC chargers split at 2 locations on the N7 which is fine but we need a lot more installations like this all over Ireland like Petrol stations.

IF I go back to EV only next year the chances are I'll just take the Diesel for these long trips away from home so it's not a huge deal breaker but it would be a bit frustrating having a car capable of more than 50 Kw DC being limited by a poxy network.

Silent Running

The chan chan man wrote: »

Reading through this, some EV owners come across as overly pompous and dogmatic. Some people like diesel, some like petrol and some like electric. You don’t need to try to convert people with “oh dear, where to start disagreeing with you...” and “educate yourself or you risk looking like a fool”.

It’s a method of fuelling a car lads, that’s all.

It just gets a little irritating when people come on and spout pure tripe and state it as fact. If you don't like electric cars, fine, but if you need to comment at least do so from a place of knowledge, not ignorance.

Would you have any comment if someone said that all petrol cars will definitely explode in a ball of flames if you drive within a mile of an open flame?

We expect this type of crap from the Healy-Rae numpties, you can't drive an EV in the wet, you know. But if they came on here and spouted that rubbish, they would be rounded on, and rightly so.

I'm happy to debate the pros and cons of any fuel choice. But I have little patience for WUMs or stupid comments like we hear from the likes of Danny Healy Rae.

RandomViewer

Hilux pickup is the same money as an electric Kona, will last twice as long ,hold its money and is more environmentally friendly and if there is a climate war you can mount a machine gun on the bed and carry on regardless

cnocbui

I have looked at the Renault Zoe/Clio and Nissan Leaf/Micra comparisons, and roughly speaking, for cars with similar performance, excluding range, and excluding motor tax, it seems that it takes 5 years at 20,000 k per year to just break even on the initial price difference, allowing for the cost of petrol and not even allowing for the cost of electricity for the EV over that time.

Ionity chargers deliver electricity that costs more than petrol, taking into account the equivalent Kwh content of petrol at an engine efficiency of 35%

I can't find a cost saving argument to buying an EV if you do 20,000 k per year or less. The range and personal time-saving advantage of a petrol ICE is considerable, IMO.

Gumbo

cnocbui wrote: »

I have looked at the Renault Zoe/Clio and Nissan Leaf/Micra comparisons, and roughly speaking, for cars with similar performance, excluding range, and excluding motor tax, it seems that it takes 5 years at 20,000 k per year to just break even on the initial price difference, allowing for the cost of petrol and not even allowing for the cost of electricity for the EV over that time.

Ionity chargers deliver electricity that costs more than petrol, taking into account the equivalent Kwh content of petrol at an engine efficiency of 35%

I can't find a cost saving argument to buying an EV if you do 20,000 k per year or less. The range and personal time-saving advantage of a petrol ICE is considerable, IMO.

Similar performance.... A Leaf is not in the same bracket as a micra and a Zoe is not in the same bracket as a clio. Both EV’s would laugh in their faces performance wise.

Personal time saving is considerable alright. I park in garden. Plug in. Takes 13 seconds. Sorted.

liamog

cnocbui wrote: »

I can't find a cost saving argument to buying an EV if you do 20,000 k per year or less. The range and personal time-saving advantage of a petrol ICE is considerable, IMO.

It can very much depend on the car, speccing a Mini Cooper SE versus a Mini Cooper S with the same equipment, the ICE version is €7,500 more expensive. Why would anybody buy an ICE vehicle when they are so much more expensive than EVs

On a serious note, most people don't compare the spec when comparing the price, the Kona is a great example where the headline figures when comparing the EV versus the ICE version look much worst than they are. It's long been true in the automotive world that you pay more for better performance and equipment. As the currently available EVs are in such high demand, the manufacturers are more than happy to sell versions that have the high margin add ons. You can even see this with the ID.3, VW still haven't started shipping the lower spec battery and motor, why bother when you can keep running the more profitable version off the production line.

cnocbui

Gumbo wrote: »

Similar performance.... A Leaf is not in the same bracket as a micro and a Zoe is not in the same bracket as a clio. Both EV’s would laugh in their faces performance wise.

Personal time saving is considerable alright. I park in garden. Plug in. Takes 13 seconds. Sorted.

A Renault Clio is 1798mm wide by 4050 long. A Zoe is 1787 wide by 4087 long. That's a massive difference of 0.3% in plan area. Acceleration difference is 11.4 Clio vs 11.0 Zoe. Top speed of the zoe is 135 kph - so not even capable of motorway speeds in a head wind. Top speed of the Clio is 187 kph. Range of the Zoe is 385 km (summer) vs 712 km for the Clio.

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

A Renault Clio is 1798mm wide by 4050 long. A Zoe is 1787 wide by 4087 long. That's a massive difference of 0.3% in plan area. Acceleration difference is 11.4 Clio vs 11.0 Zoe. Top speed of the zoe is 135 kph - so not even capable of motorway speeds in a head wind. Top speed of the Clio is 187 kph. Range of the Zoe is 385 km (summer) vs 712 km for the Clio.

Do you not think that 187 Km/hr a bit fast for Irish roads ?

Granted the range of the petrol is much more but do you think you’d not stop after 300 odd kms ? Or is the whole charging thing a turn off for you ?

Gumbo

cnocbui wrote: »

A Renault Clio is 1798mm wide by 4050 long. A Zoe is 1787 wide by 4087 long. That's a massive difference of 0.3% in plan area. Acceleration difference is 11.4 Clio vs 11.0 Zoe. Top speed of the zoe is 135 kph - so not even capable of motorway speeds in a head wind. Top speed of the Clio is 187 kph. Range of the Zoe is 385 km (summer) vs 712 km for the Clio.

Renault say 16.4 seconds 0-100
https://www.renault.ie/cars/clio/specifications.html

They also state a lower top speed of 162kmph.

Jaysus now that’s a slow car!

Black_Knight

RandomViewer wrote: »

Hilux pickup is the same money as an electric Kona, will last twice as long ,hold its money and is more environmentally friendly and if there is a climate war you can mount a machine gun on the bed and carry on regardless

What?

Kona should lose more value. It's way over priced at 38k for what it is. They're totally different utility cars though

cnocbui

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you not think that 187 Km/hr a bit fast for Irish roads ?

Granted the range of the petrol is much more but do you think you’d not stop after 300 odd kms ? Or is the whole charging thing a turn off for you ?

Not when the car I currently drive has a top speed of 235 kph.

It's not so much about stopping after 300k as the higher up front purchase cost, which is a biggie when you pay cash for your cars.

Gumbo wrote: »

Renault say 16.4 seconds 0-100
https://www.renault.ie/cars/clio/specifications.html

They also state a lower top speed of 162kmph.

No they don't. Perhaps you are looking at the base engine model? I was quoting for the 100 hp engine variant as that's the closest to the 110 hp zoe engine.

Deleted User wrote: »

Jaysus now that’s a slow car!

The Irish government wants people to drive slow cars. It's been policy for years.

liamog

cnocbui wrote: »

Not when the car I currently drive has a top speed of 235 kph.

It's not so much about stopping after 300k as the higher up front purchase cost, which is a biggie when you pay cash for your cars.

Top speed is largely irrelevant for most people buying a car in Ireland for use on Irish roads. So long as the car can get to about 125km/h in a timely manner I'm happy enough.