How is China getting on?

Captcha

Captcha wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ngJLi9cgYs&ab_channel=ChinaUncensored

China vs. Philippines | Dangerous Dispute in South China Sea

Dude, we're aware of the "bad" politics, and bullying that China gets up to. We're also aware of all the agreements they break, and that they're dodgy to the hilt. You really don't have to keep posting articles/vids about issues which are common knowledge.

Captcha

Deleted User wrote: »

Dude, we're aware of the "bad" politics, and bullying that China gets up to. We're also aware of all the agreements they break, and that they're dodgy to the hilt. You really don't have to keep posting articles/vids about issues which are common knowledge.

Common knowledge to some, not for enough people. No need to be upset at the news that is fresh news.

Joe4321

@captcha, I only travel first class so I'll take you up on the offer of a free ticket to China, are you sure it won't leave you short for your slab of beer on a Friday night

Captcha

Joe4321 wrote: »

@captcha, I only travel first class so I'll take you up on the offer of a free ticket to China, are you sure it won't leave you short for your slab of beer on a Friday night

No problem, I don't use alcohol so don't worry

Send me your Chinese passport and ill get it all arranged. Etihad Airways OK?

Joe4321

British Airways, they get there quicker.

Joe4321

Joe4321 wrote: »

British Airways, they get there quicker.

Use KLM. Better service, and more leg room. Also tends to be less delays with their planes when entering the landing rotation.

Captcha

Captcha wrote: »

Common knowledge to some, not for enough people. No need to be upset at the news that is fresh news.

Fresh news, my arse. China has been messing with it's neighbors with regards to territory, and the fishing areas for years. Same with China's approach to business, and international agreements. Anyone with even a little awareness about Asia would know that.

You're not posting anything "fresh".

Captcha

Deleted User wrote: »

Fresh news, my arse. China has been messing with it's neighbors with regards to territory, and the fishing areas for years. Same with China's approach to business, and international agreements. Anyone with even a little awareness about Asia would know that.

You're not posting anything "fresh".

Maybe not fresh for you but likely fresh to many. It's not all about you and the world doesn't revolve around you or me who might know about these things.

The news I posted has been an escalation since December 2020... As of the past couple of days, the fleet went from 200 to 250 and it's not often you get to see actual footage of the area so your complaint with my post is unexplainable.

Captcha

Deleted User wrote: »

Fresh news, my arse. China has been messing with it's neighbors with regards to territory, and the fishing areas for years. Same with China's approach to business, and international agreements. Anyone with even a little awareness about Asia would know that.

You're not posting anything "fresh".

Also, KLM only does "business class" ... this is not first-class ya peasant

Captcha

Captcha wrote: »

Also, KLM only does "business class" ... this is not first-class ya peasant

haha.. I think you need to reread what I posted.

Maybe not fresh for you but likely fresh to many. It's not all about you and the world doesn't revolve around you or me who might know about these things.

The news I posted has been an escalation since December 2020... As of the past couple of days, the fleet went from 200 to 250 and it's not often you get to see actual footage of the area so your complaint with my post is unexplainable.

You sure about that? :pac::pac::pac:

Captcha

Deleted User wrote: »

haha.. I think you need to reread what I posted.



You sure about that? :pac::pac::pac:

Only calling you a peasant in jest

Ardillaun

Piollaire wrote: »

China does not deserve the benefit of the doubt. China's cover ups and misdirection are more than enough for me to accept it came from the Wuhan lab.

The nature of the Chinese state is not exactly scientific evidence. Throughout history China has been the source of numerous pandemics long before labs appeared. I believe that eventually there will be harder evidence pointing us one way or another. At this stage we just don’t know.

Piollaire

Ardillaun wrote: »

The nature of the Chinese state is not exactly scientific evidence. Throughout history China has been the source of numerous pandemics long before labs appeared. I believe that eventually there will be harder evidence pointing us one way or another. At this stage we just don’t know.

The evidence clearing the Wuhan lab would have been produced by now if it existed. The evidence that the CCP are lying coverup merchants is abundant. Saying 'we don't know' is sticking your head in the sand and giving the CCP a legup in its campaign to redirect the blame.

Piollaire

Piollaire wrote: »

The evidence clearing the Wuhan lab would have been produced by now if it existed. The evidence that the CCP are lying coverup merchants is abundant. Saying 'we don't know' is sticking your head in the sand and giving the CCP a legup in its campaign to redirect the blame.

There is absolutely no way to "clear" the Wuhan Lab. What evidence would be trusted, and accepted? Be realistic. Even before covid happened, nobody would have trusted such information, just as they wouldn't have trusted information about something that Russia had supposedly "not" done. China and Russia are the "bad guys" and as such, they don't get the benefit of the doubt in the West.

This thread is a good example of that. You have no solid evidence that it originated there, and all the references to it coming from the lab are loose at best, but.. people are convinced it must have come from there.

Joe4321

@klaz, correct in what you say, a lot of countries can not accept that China has emerged as a world class leader in so many fields, look at the US, they are so scared of relinquishing been the most powerful country in the world that they continously put China down, you are always going to have China knockers based on media sensationalism, people who have never, traveled out of their own country seem to know everything about everything, there us a lot wrong in China, no one is defending that, there is also a lot wrong in these countries who fear them also, bottom line is China do not fear any country and will continue to progress much faster than any other, we waited to see what comes up in a couple of years time as the next thing to try know China down, as for this pandemic let the science find the origin not the media or other countries that try at every turn to knock them for there own gains.

Joe4321

Joe4321 wrote: »

@klaz, correct in what you say, a lot of countries can not accept that China has emerged as a world class leader in so many fields, look at the US, they are so scared of relinquishing been the most powerful country in the world that they continously put China down, you are always going to have China knockers based on media sensationalism, people who have never, traveled out of their own country seem to know everything about everything, there us a lot wrong in China, no one is defending that, there is also a lot wrong in these countries who fear them also, bottom line is China do not fear any country and will continue to progress much faster than any other, we waited to see what comes up in a couple of years time as the next thing to try know China down, as for this pandemic let the science find the origin not the media or other countries that try at every turn to knock them for there own gains.

Oh. Don't get me wrong. I know China very well, and as a government, they're fully capable of having been involved in all of this. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they had been experimenting with covid, and it got away from them. I'm aware of the shoddy services and standards they engage in.

At the same time though, I can't stand the hyprocrisy of many posters. The US and Britain caused the invasion of Iraq, lying to the world, pushing for a war with falsified evidence, just to destabilize the whole region. Who has been punished for that? Where are the cries for punishment, and accountability? There are none, because we are part of the western sphere, and so, we can ignore what the US gets up to. It's a common double standard, but it still annoys me.

China is dodgy to the hilt, but I'll wait for some actual evidence of wrongdoing. Ultimately though, I don't see anything positive coming from these accusations, and the potential for harm is much greater.

Joe4321

Just look at what's happening here with this quarantine, we wait one year to implemend this, everyone was crying out for this to be done, then they will not or maybe are been told by Europe that they can not add most of Europe and America to this list, you could not make this up,

Gradius

China are doing great out of this disease.

As for the "investigation" into establishing the etiology of the disease, it's like a sketch from Monty Python.

Imagine you murder someone in your house. You try to cover it up but can't. The police are about to call over but you tell them "no, but in about a year I'll let you have a strictly guided tour of my house, you can only see what I allow you to see, and can only ask certain questions."

Farcical. And I'm less and less inclined toward the oft-stated "it's only the Chinese government who are baddies", there is a ferocious appetite amongst the population for what they are doing. The propaganda only helps.

LessOutragePlz

Gradius wrote: »

China are doing great out of this disease.

As for the "investigation" into establishing the etiology of the disease, it's like a sketch from Monty Python.

Imagine you murder someone in your house. You try to cover it up but can't. The police are about to call over but you tell them "no, but in about a year I'll let you have a strictly guided tour of my house, you can only see what I allow you to see, and can only ask certain questions."

Farcical. And I'm less and less inclined toward the oft-stated "it's only the Chinese government who are baddies", there is a ferocious appetite amongst the population for what they are doing. The propaganda only helps.

In reference to your last point, I wouldn't be too keen on speaking out or critisicing the CCP if I was in China you'll end being silenced or disappeared.

While undoubtably some of the population are fully supportive of their actions and what they are doing they are equally others that don't support them but they are too afraid to speak out.

Gradius

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

In reference to your last point, I wouldn't be too keen on speaking out or critisicing the CCP if I was in China you'll end being silenced or disappeared.

While undoubtably some of the population are fully supportive of their actions and what they are doing they are equally others that don't support them but they are too afraid to speak out.

Well it's impossible to know. My personal inclination is that there are far more who approve of their governments actions than not. Far more.

Apparently the furore over Taiwan was that the government were actually the reticent factor over invasion. The majority of Han Chinese were chomping at the bit. Still are, probably.

A lot goes back to the "lost century" and it's humiliation. That undercurrent that Chinese people are absolutely entitled to everything on the planet is alive and kicking.

Joe4321

The majority of Chinese people would back their government in the way they have handled this, they are back to there day to day life while the rest of the world can not agree on what to do and all act in there own interest which clearly is and can not work for a pandemic like this. I actuly herd on the radio one of Who's people come out and critasizing the way Europe has handled this and how disjointed they come across, you should look and copy the actions of the best in class and in this case China seem to be way out in front with dealing with this and not one European country mention how well they are doing or try to copy they way they have handled this all because they all act in there own interests, the only thing we can do here is keep the lock down and hope we get enough vaccines to curb this, we can't even quarantine people from other European counties because its against their human rights for freedom of movement. Four people in less than a week have been found to be positive in these quarantine hotels, if that does not prove that this is the way to go then we are in deep trouble,

Gradius

Gradius wrote: »

China are doing great out of this disease.

Actually, they're not. In terms of internal affairs, it raised the ineptitude of the CCP on a local level, with a lot of bitterness manifesting among both the people and lower levels of authority (local police). It's caused some cracks to become exposed, and that's not going to go away any time soon.

Externally, they had a chance to establish themselves as being generous and supportive, but instead, they've reinforced the impression of being superficial, and unreliable. The supplies they donated across the world, in many cases (not all), haven't been fit for purpose, and that's hurt their international reputation. I get that many of you think that China was universally despised but that certainly wasn't the case, but their actions over covid, have brought them a few steps closer to such an impression.

As for the "investigation" into establishing the etiology of the disease, it's like a sketch from Monty Python.

There was never going to be one. Not really. Chinese culture does not allow for acknowledging responsibility or mistakes in such a situation.. regardless of whether covid was released from their research facility or not, any investigation would have confirmed the revelation of Covid being found in Wuhan, which goes against a number of their later claims. So.. anyone who believed that there would be a decent/honest investigation was fooling themselves or just terribly naive. Anyway, the US and others have too much interest in China being the bad guy here, so any investigation would have been pressured from all angles.

Farcical. And I'm less and less inclined toward the oft-stated "it's only the Chinese government who are baddies", there is a ferocious appetite amongst the population for what they are doing. The propaganda only helps.

1.4 Billion people. You have little understanding of the amount of conditioning that goes on in that country... The propaganda is obvious and most Chinese will ignore it, except for public displays of support. Rather, there is the perception that western media, and governments, are out to "get" China.. and they're not far wrong. Just as with the US, in China, there will be many people who are gungho to show Chinese "power" and influence.

Gradius

Gradius wrote: »

A lot goes back to the "lost century" and it's humiliation. That undercurrent that Chinese people are absolutely entitled to everything on the planet is alive and kicking.

Where are you getting this from?

Gradius

Deleted User wrote: »

Where are you getting this from?

I can't be getting into every thing you're saying.

However, you say that "Chinese culture does not allow for responsibility" or something.

Yet you also say "there are 1.4 billion of them, propaganda and control are vast"

So which is it? They are being manipulated, or it's just their culture?

To me the answer is fairly clear, the people and the government are one and the same.

And yes they have done extraordinarily well out of this disease, they've snapped up bargains worldwide due to the pandemic they caused and their economy is booming.

I somehow doubt that a culture of people who celebrate each new year with the phrase "good luck getting money" and don't like public-facing responsibility are going to be changing anytime soon. They don't give a fook, quite nihilistic in many ways.

For all the bs that comes out of other countries, there isnt a single one that compares to the potential devastation China offers. The factors underpinning it's ideas and culture and government are a dream-team of destruction. Chalk up this global pandemic to a baby step.

Gradius

Gradius wrote: »

I can't be getting into every thing you're saying.

I specifically asked about it, and bolded it to make it easier for you to spot.

So, perhaps answer the question I asked you, and then, I'll respond to your other points.

caoty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0oo8PsUKrA&t=2s

"Ofcom does not regulate standards for the BBC World Service",
1.4 Ofcom, Section 1: The BBC's Editorial Standards.

https://www.bbc.com/editorialguidelines/guidelines/editorial-standards

Ardillaun

Piollaire wrote: »

The evidence clearing the Wuhan lab would have been produced by now if it existed. The evidence that the CCP are lying coverup merchants is abundant. Saying 'we don't know' is sticking your head in the sand and giving the CCP a legup in its campaign to redirect the blame.

So why don’t you share your incontrovertible evidence with the scientific community?

Piollaire

Ardillaun wrote: »

So why don’t you share your incontrovertible evidence with the scientific community?

I'm guessing you think OJ Simpson was innocent, that Bertie Ahern won his money on the races and that Al Capone was only a tax evader.

peterofthebr

Gradius wrote: »

China are doing great out of this disease.

As for the "investigation" into establishing the etiology of the disease, it's like a sketch from Monty Python.

Imagine you murder someone in your house. You try to cover it up but can't. The police are about to call over but you tell them "no, but in about a year I'll let you have a strictly guided tour of my house, you can only see what I allow you to see, and can only ask certain questions."

Farcical. And I'm less and less inclined toward the oft-stated "it's only the Chinese government who are baddies", there is a ferocious appetite amongst the population for what they are doing. The propaganda only helps.

well i think the people just want to get on with life and grow richer, its the CCP thats the problem - imo

Kermit.de.frog

China did what democracies should have done at the very beginning. For whatever reason the west was reluctant to take the type of measures that would have had the same impact suppressing the disease and allowing life to continue on pretty much normally within a short period of time with total control on spread.

Without a doubt the measures would have been far stricter but if it's a month or two of complete lockdown vs two years in and out of restrictions people would have accepted the former.

Then you can do your targeted fire fighting like China did very successfully (they also have experience in fairness to the west) and no need for societal wide restrictions and this kind of unstable rolling regime of national lockdowns.