How is China getting on?

caoty

Hong Kong (CNN Business)China just posted its strongest quarterly growth on record as the world's second largest economy continued its robust recovery from the coronavirus pandemic.

GDP growth of 18.3% year-on-year in the first quarter was the strongest since China began keeping records in 1992, and was driven by a surge in retail sales, industrial production and investment in fixed assets.

The big jump reflects the deep slump in activity in early 2020 but it keeps China on track for growth of between 8% and 9% in 2021, economists said, far ahead of the Chinese government's official target of more than 6%.

"We are fully confident that we can maintain the current recovery momentum throughout the year," said Liu Aihua, a spokeswoman for the National Bureau of Statistics at a press conference in Beijing on Friday.

First quarter retail sales jumped 34% from a year ago, while fixed-asset investment in urban areas gained nearly 26%. Industrial production increased by more than 24%.

"Growth remains pretty strong at this stage as Covid losers such as consumption and [capital expenditures] are catching up," said Larry Hu, chief China economist for Macquarie Group, in a research report on Friday.

Retail sales, which took a big hit last year because of the lockdown, had improved because Beijing eased travel restrictions after the Lunar New Year holidays in February, he added. Investments in manufacturing and infrastructure also picked up pace.

Trade also provided a strong boost. Customs statistics released earlier this week showed imports jumped more than 38% last month in US dollar terms compared to a year earlier, a sign that demand within China is picking up. Exports grew by nearly 31%.

Hu said the strength in imports was broad based, indicating a "consumption recovery." And Beijing should easily hit its target of more than 6% growth for 2021. "Growth could easily go to 8-9% with the low base," Hu added.

Nomura analysts predicted Friday that China's GDP would grow 8.9% in 2021.

Last month, Premier Li Keqiang said the government had set this year's growth target at "above 6%." That's more than enough to accomplish President Xi Jinping's long-term goal for the economy, though still less aggressive than some observers have said they would like to see. Some analysts have said the cautious target indicates that the government is taking account of the risk that Covid-19 makes a comeback.

Earlier this month, the International Monetary Fund raised its growth estimate for China to 8.4% for this year, saying that "effective containment measures, a forceful public investment response and central bank liquidity support" had facilitated the country's recovery.

caoty

The REAL L4 Autonomous Driving brought by Chinese tech giant Huawei, demonstrated in Shanghai.
15 Apr 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BoE21o8rfw

The car is Arcfox Alpha S Huawei HI Edition. The brand name is Arcfox, which belongs to the automaker BAIC(Beijing Automotive Industry Corporation). HI stands for HUAWEI Intelligent automotive solution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPPjK475DnY

poisonated

I was watching a documentary on covid and it was showing wuhan at the start. It was interesting in seeing the way they used technology. For example, everyone using the subway were required to tap a card in the carriage they were in. This was then used as a way to inform people if they were in a carriage with someone who had covid. Th in a would never work in Ireland like on the luas or something. People would be up in arms about invasion of privacy. I’m not saying China’s way is perfect though.

poisonated

I was watching a documentary on covid and it was showing wuhan at the start. It was interesting in seeing the way they used technology. For example, everyone using the subway were required to tap a card in the carriage they were in. This was then used as a way to inform people if they were in a carriage with someone who had covid. Th in a would never work in Ireland like on the luas or something. People would be up in arms about invasion of privacy. I’m not saying China’s way is perfect though.

Oranage2

poisonated wrote: »

I was watching a documentary on covid and it was showing wuhan at the start. It was interesting in seeing the way they used technology. For example, everyone using the subway were required to tap a card in the carriage they were in. This was then used as a way to inform people if they were in a carriage with someone who had covid. Th in a would never work in Ireland like on the luas or something. People would be up in arms about invasion of privacy. I’m not saying China’s way is perfect though.

How they handled the virus was text book perfect. I'm not saying China is perfect but how they managed this pandemic was.

caoty

DiDi Autonomous Driving Releases Recording of Five-Hour Road Test Without Disengagement in Shanghai
8 Apr 2021

Didi Chuxing Technology Co., (stylized DiDi, Chinese: 滴滴出行; pinyin: Dīdī Chūxíng, pronounced [tɨ́tɨ́ ʈʂʰúɕɪ̌ŋ]), formerly named Didi Dache (嘀嘀打车) and Didi Kuaidi (Chinese: 滴滴快的), is a Chinese vehicle for hire company headquartered in Beijing with over 550 million users and tens of millions of drivers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeOz275b_X4

Piollaire

caoty wrote: »

DiDi Autonomous Driving Releases Recording of Five-Hour Road Test Without Disengagement in Shanghai
8 Apr 2021

Didi Chuxing Technology Co., (stylized DiDi, Chinese: 滴滴出行; pinyin: Dīdī Chūxíng, pronounced [tɨ́tɨ́ ʈʂʰúɕɪ̌ŋ]), formerly named Didi Dache (嘀嘀打车) and Didi Kuaidi (Chinese: 滴滴快的), is a Chinese vehicle for hire company headquartered in Beijing with over 550 million users and tens of millions of drivers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeOz275b_X4

How off topic is this - Goebbels would blush at this level of propaganda

Piollaire

Hard to fathom how many people will have died from Covid in China. Multi-generational homes are commonplace. My heart goes out to them.

caoty

Piollaire wrote: »

How off topic is this - Goebbels would blush at this level of propaganda

Sorry to upset you. The five stages, denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance are a part of the framework that makes up our learning to live with the one we lost.

You are currently at stage 1.5, somewhere in between denial and anger. Don't worry, it's still the early stage, more to come and you will finally find peace in your mind when you reach the final stage.

is_that_so

Oranage2 wrote: »

How they handled the virus was text book perfect. I'm not saying China is perfect but how they managed this pandemic was.

It does help when you can do as you please to address it. Not so hot on the quality of vaccines though, not that it might be a huge issue given the tools they can deploy but not terribly useful geopolitically.

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

It does help when you can do as you please to address it. Not so hot on the quality of vaccines though, not that it might be a huge issue given the tools they can deploy but not terribly useful geopolitically.

They found that there were limits as to how far they could push the population though.

They don't have the level of control that many here seem to think, since they need to ensure that anger/bitterness doesn't erupt to the point where the people see a need for change. While the Party remains supreme, this is still a nation that was built through revolution, and while they've gained the advantages of glorifying the revolution, it also reminds the people that they have the power to instigate change should the desire be great enough... considering that both the Police and the military are heavily populated by the poor, it makes the government vulnerable to insurrection.

The fact of the matter though is that there is little real desire for change from the general population.. Still... the Party doesn't have the ability to enforce their will, the same way as was done during Mao's time. They learned the lessons from watching the USSR and it's failure to recognise how the powerbase changed over time. Gradually, they've become more subtle in how they maintain their power over the population, but it's still a power that could be challenged if they tried to oppress the people too much.

As for vaccines, they'll improve over time, and will likely have the majority of their population vaccinated before most western nations.

pottokblue

Politically and in virus control terms its fascinating to watch how it develops in China, USSR, USA, SA, Brazil, Europe ....

Captcha

President Biden and Japan Prime Minister Suga met today.

<snip>

gozunda

Oranage2 wrote: »

How they handled the virus was text book perfect. I'm not saying China is perfect but how they managed this pandemic was.

They didn't. At the start - Chinese authorities denied that there was an outbreak of a covid type illness. They forcibly silenced those who tried to warn others about the disease. Lockdowns of affected regions came a little to late to stop the disease spreading to other regions and other countries. Citizen journalists who reported on the disease were detained and some disappeared. The Chinese government also denied that there was evidence for P2P spread and lent heavily on the WHO to stop other countries from restricting flights from China - even though by that time they had put in place gulag type restrictions within China in regions such as Wuhan and elsewhere. They refused to play ball with international investigations into the origins of the disease and instead took to blaming other countries for introducing it to China. They mopped up the pandemic using draconian controls way beyond what any other country could legally do. That said no one knows the full impact of Covid there to date as such reports are censored by the authorities. And it goes on. But its not fashionable atm to criticise anything the Chinese government does. So we won't...

Red Silurian

gozunda wrote: »

They didn't. At the start - Chinese authorities denied that there was an outbreak of a covid type illness. They forcibly silenced those who tried to warn others about the disease. Lockdowns of affected regions came a little to late to stop the disease spreading to other regions and other countries. Citizen journalists who reported on the disease were detained and some disappeared. The Chinese government also denied that there was evidence for P2P spread and lent heavily on the WHO to stop other countries from restricting flights from China - even though by that time they had put in place gulag type restrictions within China in regions such as Wuhan and elsewhere. They refused to play ball with international investigations into the origins of the disease and instead took to blaming other countries for introducing it to China. They mopped up the pandemic using draconian controls way beyond what any other country could legally do. That said no one knows the full impact of Covid there to date as such reports are censored by the authorities. And it goes on. But its not fashionable atm to criticise anything the Chinese government does. So we won't...

No doubt China made mistakes in the early days... Now no doubt the word 'mistake' might be a very light word to use in the context but since locking down wuhan in January 2020 and subsequently locking down the rest of the country they then enforced strict border controls and localised heavy-handed lockdowns. If you live in a locked down region and you try to pass a checkpoint to get out without the proper paperwork (if there is any) you're arrested on site... Heavy handed and not possible in a western democracy but in fairness it works

Red Silurian

Red Silurian wrote: »

No doubt China made mistakes in the early days... Now no doubt the word 'mistake' might be a very light word to use in the context but since locking down wuhan in January 2020 and subsequently locking down the rest of the country they then enforced strict border controls and localised heavy-handed lockdowns. If you live in a locked down region and you try to pass a checkpoint to get out without the proper paperwork (if there is any) you're arrested on site... Heavy handed and not possible in a western democracy but in fairness it works

It's not really that heavy handed... You get caught, and are fined and/or get some prison time.

TBF consider all the disease related movies from Hollywood, and there's a lot more scope for heavy handed responses. I certainly haven't heard of anyone getting shot for breaching a quarantined area.. and most of the times I've heard of any real heavy responses, were in relation to ignorant fcks who spat or sought to pass the virus on to others out of pure spite.

As for a democracy, I don't think it's heavy handed either. We seem to have lost any real appreciation for common sense. We know that covid isn't terribly bad now, but in the early days, there wasn't that knowledge, and western nations were paralysed by indecision, and an unwillingness to commit to anything substantial. Imagine if this had been another Black death scenario, or another highly lethal disease.. Western governments would have dithered us all into the grave..

The CCP originally underestimated the scope of the disease, and then, over-reacted... and then compensated for their reaction. Few nations managed to deal with covid as well... and for those who want to consider countries like S.Korea/Taiwan, they've been drilling for attacks for years, so reacting to covid wasn't much of a change for them.

MikeSoys

Another conspiracy theory I read recently is covid started in China where miners were trapped in a mine for long enough for some to get very sick(10 yrs ago) . They were rescued and scientists took samples from those who were very sick(it was a covid type virus) and it was sent to a lab in Wuhan. They (the army) wanted to see if they could study and weponise it,....
.. But guess maybe someone didn't follow the proper controls and it got out accidentally

joseywhales

How does anyone know what is happening in china, I mean you could tell me they have lost .00001% or 15% of their population and I wouldn't be surprised either way, I also wouldn't believe that either. Basically it's a mystery, why would anyone have any confidence in anything that comes from their government?

joseywhales

joseywhales wrote: »

How does anyone know what is happening in china, I mean you could tell me they have lost .00001% or 15% of their population and I wouldn't be surprised either way, I also wouldn't believe that either. Basically it's a mystery, why would anyone have any confidence in anything that comes from their government?

So conspiracy theorists believe all of the actions the Chinese actually took, invent more actions to make them sound insanely oppressive, and then want to claim that none of those actions worked, and they're just lying about their numbers.

Do you have any friends living there? That's a pretty handy way to see how things are going.

joseywhales

joseywhales wrote: »

How does anyone know what is happening in china, I mean you could tell me they have lost .00001% or 15% of their population and I wouldn't be surprised either way, I also wouldn't believe that either. Basically it's a mystery, why would anyone have any confidence in anything that comes from their government?

Well.. I have students and friends in China, who I'm in regular contact with.. along with the usual checking of social media. If China was experiencing widespread infections, then more people would be talking about it on a personal level... and at the very least, I'd have students dropping out of my classes (as my students come from all over China), either due to getting covid themselves, or going home for funerals and such.

But I'm hearing nothing except they've essentially moved on

joseywhales

Deleted User wrote: »

So conspiracy theorists believe all of the actions the Chinese actually took, invent more actions to make them sound insanely oppressive, and then want to claim that none of those actions worked, and they're just lying about their numbers.

Do you have any friends living there? That's a pretty handy way to see how things are going.

So I am a conspiracy theorist because I do not believe the narrative of the ccp? A government that is famous for propaganda, cover ups and oppression of any form of dissent for decades. A group that is almost defined by their rejection of any form of legitimate opposition or criticism.

Why would I believe any information that originates or is controlled from that source. Also you are combining this view with other posters in a pretty lazy way, please quote where I have claimed that china has taken insanely oppressive actions, let alone where I have invented such actions.

You are right about anecdotal evidence, it is the only way to ascertain what is happening regarding various situations in china, I'm just pointing out that any statistical reporting is bogus as far as I am concerned, along with every single word that is uttered by ccp controlled media. I would have thought that was obvious?

joseywhales

joseywhales wrote: »

I'm just pointing out that any statistical reporting is bogus as far as I am concerned, along with every single word that is uttered by ccp controlled media. I would have thought that was obvious?

In my experience, the CCP is very good at mixing truth with lies, although there's also the element with China that the hand is often not aware of what the foot is doing. Due to the way their provinces are managed, Beijing is often given wrong information, and that feeds into what is released.

At the same time, they won't be lying about everything. There will be plenty of truths for things that don't impact on them negatively. For example, the numbers of people who have received their vaccine, are likely to be true. My whole university has received their vaccines in a really short time, and apparently, there's been no further infections. Apparently.

The thing with China is to take everything with a pinch of salt. When it comes to justifying their choices, then, there's likely to be some lying or misinformation involved... but they're not going to be lying all the time.

joseywhales

joseywhales wrote: »

So I am a conspiracy theorist because I do not believe the narrative of the ccp?

Yes. Not that that is a negative thing, as it is entirely reasonable to not believe the narrative of their government. Doesn't mean you're right, though.

joseywhales

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes. Not that that is a negative thing, as it is entirely reasonable to not believe the narrative of their government. Doesn't mean you're right, though.

I disagree, I am saying that they are not believable, not that they are wrong. I disregard them because they are untrustworthy, I do not refute their claims.

In March, due to a bug with the software in their new medicines agency, the UK government found out about AZ blood clots and deaths that had been happening there since early January. After finding this out, it then sat on that information for a further five weeks, while the entire thing continued to become bigger and bigger politically. This was highly convenient in light of Brexit, and it also led to many EU citizens thinking their governments spotting these clots and being careful with a Brexit revenge. It was a boon for British citizens who got to naively think the EU were vengeful little liars out to hurt the UK by being careful with its vaccine.

So, joseywales, I would consider the UK's lies and cover-ups to be far more severe than whatever China did at the start of this pandemic. Do you trust the UK's narrative, when they sit on information that their own population should be aware of?

If you'd like another example, they realised that for years, they hadn't been sharing information regarding criminals with the rest of the EU. Thousands of criminals and dozens of murderers living in the EU with no one the wiser. The Home Office decided that instead of rectifying the issue, which would be enormously embarrassing, they just did nothing.

I find a lot of people give a lot of leeway to their own governments or styles of government, and are exceptionally critical of others. The UK and the US, our best buddies, went to war illegally and haven't left that region nearly 20 years later. Utterly ruining the place on fabricated evidence But those damn Russians and Crimea. They're the real baddies.

joseywhales

joseywhales wrote: »

I disagree, I am saying that they are not believable, not that they are wrong. I disregard them because they are untrustworthy, I do not refute their claims.

You don't have to listen to their claims. You simply have to listen to the million foreigners who live there.

joseywhales

Deleted User wrote: »

In March, due to a bug with the software in their new medicines agency, the UK government found out about AZ blood clots and deaths that had been happening there since early January. After finding this out, it then sat on that information for a further five weeks, while the entire thing continued to become bigger and bigger politically. This was highly convenient in light of Brexit, and it also led to many EU citizens thinking their governments spotting these clots and being careful with a Brexit revenge. It was a boon for British citizens who got to naively think the EU were vengeful little liars out to hurt the UK by being careful with its vaccine.

So, joseywales, I would consider the UK's lies and cover-ups to be far more severe than whatever China did at the start of this pandemic. Do you trust the UK's narrative, when they sit on information that their own population should be aware of?

If you'd like another example, they realised that for years, they hadn't been sharing information regarding criminals with the rest of the EU. Thousands of criminals and dozens of murderers living in the EU with no one the wiser. The Home Office decided that instead of rectifying the issue, which would be enormously embarrassing, they just did nothing.

I find a lot of people give a lot of leeway to their own governments or styles of government, and are exceptionally critical of others. The UK and the US, our best buddies, went to war illegally and haven't left that region nearly 20 years later. Utterly ruining the place on fabricated evidence But those damn Russians and Crimea. They're the real baddies.

Hey, I wasn't being adversarial toward the ccp, I'm just pointing out that they are completely untrustworthy. That doesn't exclude your point about western government propaganda either. The one thing I will say about the ccp though is that they don't even have any form of official opposition, noone to criticise or question them. This is an environment in which even the morally strongest would succumb to absolute corruption. In the UK or the US, politicians mislead,misdirect and cover up all the time but usually we eventually find out because we have a dwindling free media, where at least there is some minority that will challenge authority and we have democratic elections where there can be some kind atonement. I don't trust any of the people but the system in western democracy allows for some minimal checks on absolute power and corruption. I can openly protest and raise awareness in public about Guantanamo bay without fear of reprisal from the US government in DC, can the same be said if I protest in Beijing about the Uighur camps? There is clearly more control of narrative there and therefore even less trust from me. Also this mixing of facts and propaganda is clearly tactical, pure propaganda is easily identified but to conflate facts with fiction gives the ccp the ability to undermine external criticism.

joseywhales

joseywhales wrote: »

Hey, I wasn't being adversarial toward the ccp, I'm just pointing out that they are completely untrustworthy. That doesn't exclude your point about western government propaganda either. The one thing I will say about the ccp though is that they don't even have any form of official opposition, noone to criticise or question them. This is an environment in which even the morally strongest would succumb to absolute corruption. In the UK or the US, politicians mislead,misdirect and cover up all the time but usually we eventually find out because we have a dwindling free media, where at least there is some minority that will challenge authority and we have democratic elections where there can be some kind atonement. I don't trust any of the people but the system in western democracy allows for some minimal checks on absolute power and corruption. I can openly protest and raise awareness in public about Guantanamo bay without fear of reprisal from the US government in DC, can the same be said if I protest in Beijing about the Uighur camps? There is clearly more control of narrative there and therefore even less trust from me. Also this mixing of facts and propaganda is clearly tactical, pure propaganda is easily identified but to conflate facts with fiction gives the ccp the ability to undermine external criticism.

0.0001% is 140 deaths.
15% is 209,700,000 deaths.

Making outlandish throw-away comments claiming you wouldn't know where their true numbers stand in that comically large range doesn't lead anyone to think you've put any critical thought into this appraisal of China's trustworthiness. Point out some things that are believable and have some sort of actual reason for it, that isn't just "Well they're the CCP." What are you even adding to the thread? No one cases if you don't trust them.

It's April 2021. If they were lying, we'd know. We'd know because a lot of people have friends who live there. We'd know because their citizens would be telling the world.

Oranage2

I live in China and things have been back to normal pretty much since the start of summer 2020. Things like masks are compulsory on public transportation and in official buildings but that's about it.

joseywhales

Deleted User wrote: »

0.0001% is 140 deaths.
15% is 209,700,000 deaths.

Making outlandish throw-away comments claiming you wouldn't know where their true numbers stand in that comically large range doesn't lead anyone to think you've put any critical thought into this appraisal of China's trustworthiness. Point out some things that are believable and have some sort of actual reason for it, that isn't just "Well they're the CCP." What are you even adding to the thread? No one cases if you don't trust them.

It's April 2021. If they were lying, we'd know. We'd know because a lot of people have friends who live there. We'd know because their citizens would be telling the world.

My range was hyperbole fair enough. But I would question whether we can rely on chinese citizens and ex pats to accurately tell us what is happening in China. For example without the UN human rights commission would we know that the ccp is interning 1.3 million in Xinjiang per year. According to media there, they are in vocational retraining,
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/3101986/china-claims-vocational-training-given-nearly-13-million-people

So if I ask my Irish or British friend living in Shanghai for example, would they have been able to expose to me that in fact these are internment camps, targeting muslims where people get beaten and tortured without ever having been convicted of a crime?

That seems like a pretty big lie to cover up. In fact it seems a much bigger issue than the effects of covid even. So why would I trust the ccp?