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How is China getting on?
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None of them would be willing to have themselves or their families put in a Chinese gulag to provide that evidence. This is the most blatant cover up of all time.
Hardly. The most blatant cover up? I suspect the CIA are up there for doing that. Or perhaps Bush and Blairs invasion of Iraq.
As for them not being willing to provide evidence, that's obvious. Which is why I questioned the previous statement that they had made such a claim.0 -
I think we need to treat them exactly the way they treat others... This would make things more equal and then we decide what further steps are needed.
Ideally, a complete disconnect from investment and supply chains over the next decade should be underway, Hong Kong included.
I agree - they need to get the same boycott treatment that South Africa got. I avoid buying 'made in china' where possible.0 -
Until proven otherwise we should be safe to assume the virus came from Wuhan - either accidentally from the lab or from animals.
The entire world is affected, millions of people have died, millions more will have life changing after effects.
All the people out of work and all the businesses which are closed and will likely never reopen.
It's cost the world economy trillions and trillions and we aren't even close to the end yet.
It came from China and they lied about it from the outset, I'm sure they're lying now.0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »Hardly. The most blatant cover up? I suspect the CIA are up there for doing that. Or perhaps Bush and Blairs invasion of Iraq.
As for them not being willing to provide evidence, that's obvious. Which is why I questioned the previous statement that they had made such a claim.
2.8 million dead and 129 million confirmed cases puts this cover up in contention for world's greatest.
China should be penalized internationally for obstructing access to evidence. It's like a suspect in a murder case controlling how the guards run their investigation.0 -
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I agree - they need to get the same boycott treatment that South Africa got. I avoid buying 'made in china' where possible.
There is a hell of a difference between China and South Africa
The Afrikaners were a piddly little minority that could easily be intimidated, China is a fifth of the world's population and a military and industrial giant that has a 5000 year history.
Those today with a western 19th century mentality that think they can brow beat China into doing what they want are hilarious "comical Ali" type characters 0 -
There is a hell of a difference between China and South Africa
The Afrikaners were a piddly little minority that could easily be intimidated, China is a fifth of the world's population and a military and industrial giant that has a 5000 year history.
Those today with a western 19th century mentality that think they can brow beat China into doing what they want are hilarious "comical Ali" type characters
Klaz, this is the pro-CCP propagandist mentality I'm talking about.0 -
There is a hell of a difference between China and South Africa
The Afrikaners were a piddly little minority that could easily be intimidated, China is a fifth of the world's population and a military and industrial giant that has a 5000 year history.
Those today with a western 19th century mentality that think they can brow beat China into doing what they want are hilarious "comical Ali" type characters
Maybe we'll get a Dunne Stores protest and a boycott of deep fried wantans.
You're right in saying what you are, it's laughable to think any state or group of states in the world could touch China in that way, they'll continue to do what they want.
And for the other poster boycotting Chinese products, you'll find it near impossible not finding an electronic device that China didn't have their hands on in some way. Either direct manufacturer or essential components within it.0 -
Klaz, this is the pro-CCP propagandist mentality I'm talking about.
Ahh... i get it. You just have a problem with realism. Any suggestion of not running off into la la land, in the mistaken belief that your boycotting of Chinese products will somehow affect China, is an indication of being pro-CCP.. Ok.
The only piece of propaganda he mentioned was the belief of a 5000 year history.0 -
GooglePlus wrote: »Maybe we'll get a Dunne Stores protest and a boycott of deep fried wantans.
You're right in saying what you are, it's laughable to think any state or group of states in the world could touch China in that way, they'll continue to do what they want.
China will continue doing what they want... regardless of whether any sanctions or trade ban was successful or not. This is what many people don't get. The Chinese will not be pressured, or blackmailed to play to standards that "the West" isn't particularly good at following either. The CCP would allow hundreds of millions of their population starve (as a result of sanctions) before they'd even consider acceding to western demands.. probably because they know that once those demands are accepted, more demands will follow.And for the other poster boycotting Chinese products, you'll find it near impossible not finding an electronic device that China didn't have their hands on in some way. Either direct manufacturer or essential components within it.
Not only that.. but the range of investment as shareholders, investors, or partners in non-Chinese firms is staggering. They could do a lot of damage to Western economies if they truly wished to hurt us, and didn't mind the cost to themselves.0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »Ahh... i get it. You just have a problem with realism. Any suggestion of not running off into la la land, in the mistaken belief that your boycotting of Chinese products will somehow affect China, is an indication of being pro-CCP.. Ok.
The only piece of propaganda he mentioned was the belief of a 5000 year history.
The 5000 year history is the most telling part of the post. It also reeks of modern day nationalistic pride and retaliation for the 100 years of shame.
Change starts with individual actions. The Dunnes Stores workers were and are heroes.0 -
The 5000 year history is the most telling part of the post. It also reeks of modern day nationalistic pride and retaliation for the 100 years of shame.
The 5000 years is a belief of when Chinese civilisation began, since there is a reference to a city with some vague association to "China" that was mentioned in some texts. So, Chinese people love to claim a 5k history, as if they weren't susceptible to the same problems, that other ancient civilisations experienced.
It's China.. National pride is a core part of their modern culture. And honestly, it should be something Irish people adapted for themselves.
What 100 years of shame?
They're compensating for the loss of power during the Qing Dynasty to Western imperialism, and subsequent losses to Japan.. but there isn't a whole lot of shame involved. Just heaps of bitterness and anger at how they were treated by the Western nations throughout history, including what was decided following WW1. There's no shame for their period under Maoism... if you believe there's shame involved, then you don't understand Chinese culture very well. (They do have some shame for other things, but it's similar to the guilt/shame that Christianity put us all through)Change starts with individual actions. The Dunnes Stores workers were and are heroes.
Delusional. Considering we're talking about some kind of punishment of China by your actions.0 -
A lot of attitude and opinions, very little facts, i.e. symptom of deep state of being chronically brainwashed.
John Sudworth got himself into trouble (law suits) simply because he just got too wild with his BBC style of fake news manufacturing.
Take a look at his most famous act: in a video clip broadcast by BBC, he "interviewed" a Chinese man who was sitting on the bank of a river and looked distraught, he asked him why he was sitting there, the man answered, in Chinese, "I'm down, just drank some alcohol". John Sudworth turned around towards the camera and started his BBC style "reporting", "this Chinese man said his family was arrested by the (Chinese）government and he is very upset."
What should we expect? the usual outrage against the Chinese government surely made another outburst among the audience who hadn't a clue what the Chinese man actually said.
For another example, take a look at the following video to see the state of art BBC style news "reporting" technique.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khxQLI3aesM
The Real Reason Western Media Lies about China
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve4cwf458k40 -
SerpentZA and Laowhy86 have put up their best video in a while of them riding through a remote province in pre-Covid days. Ignoring the click-bait title and microphone echo it is well worth a watch.
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Don't know how you watched all of it, I got to 4 minutes before I had enough of their whinny voices.0
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Poor baby, are you OK?
Just about, they went to the rural part of the country and moaned about everything. Don't know how you managed to watch it all unless you've a serious agenda.
China has a population bigger than Africa, and a population over twice that of Europe yet in a smaller space. To think social problems don't exist is pure naivety. Eggs have to be cracked to make omelets.
Right now China is a powerhouse and it's scaring other nations, there's a propaganda war happening but whatever is reported about China is usually happening in other countries but worse, we have Julian Assange facing a lifetime in prison for 'journalism', we've another journalist Khashoggi chopped up in a country that wants to join the EU by a country that does billion dollar arm deals with the USA to commit genocide on their neighbours.
The media are plucking at straws, China's foreign policy is very noninvasive, they're building roads, schools and infrastructure in countries, they're not going in and having 20 year wars etc.0 -
Just about, they went to the rural part of the country and moaned about everything. Don't know how you managed to watch it all unless you've a serious agenda.
China has a population bigger than Africa, and a population over twice that of Europe yet in a smaller space. To think social problems don't exist is pure naivety. Eggs have to be cracked to make omelets.
Right now China is a powerhouse and it's scaring other nations, there's a propaganda war happening but whatever is reported about China is usually happening in other countries but worse, we have Julian Assange facing a lifetime in prison for 'journalism', we've another journalist Khashoggi chopped up in a country that wants to join the EU by a country that does billion dollar arm deals with the USA to commit genocide on their neighbours.
The media are plucking at straws, China's foreign policy is very noninvasive, they're building roads, schools and infrastructure in countries, they're not going in and having 20 year wars etc.
I didnt watch it but I've seen some of their videos and are pretty good!
YEs, CHina has been clever about it up to now, destroying foreign industries with state-subsidized companies, go out and undercut companies in their own markets and globally with state funding, operating at a loss, and once the industry is destroyed put the prices back up to normal, such as steel/metal industries and many more.
Breaking international treaties with Hong Kong
Disappear people who disagree with them
Sow discontent in free countries
Lead propaganda on foreign media and on their own media internationally (CGTN etc) but not allow any foreign media in China
Blocking thousands of websites, apps etc like facebook, twitter.
Steal technology
Force technology transfers
Every actions they do is disgusting but it helps them, so if you can do it and get away with it then I guess its fair game, until its not.
They are acting out.
Look at their 250 ships docked at Phillipines now.
Look at their thousands of fishing vessels overfishing waters THAT ARE NOT THEIRS, destroying coral reefs
China added more coal power last year than the rest of the world combined even uses
Destroying Ozone layer with globally illegal substances
Hiding covid
Lying about its origins
Blame west for everything bad
What's up with the 250 vessels in Philipino seas now? What's up on the Indian border? What their involvment in Myanmar? Why build the artificial islands in international waters? Why flying nuclear bombers over Taiwan every other week?
USA made China most favourite trading nation 30 years ago and their economy took off... Big mistake, but the west thought they would follow the rules eventually... They had no intention of doing so and raped the world.
It is what it is, but they have no intention of operating fairly with equal access to their markets... Time to treat them in exactly the same way they treat everyone else. Wechat needs to be blocked, market access needs to be curbed, their media needs to be shut down in the west etc... Until the stakes are equalled, they need to be disconnected.
Their motto is unconventional warfare, because they could never have beaten the USA in that regard.
Fair play to them for having the balls and long game to do this, but it needs to be snipped right now. Move all supply chains away and prevent investment there.0 -
I didnt watch it but I've seen some of their videos and are pretty good!
Sure, they're pretty good, although they're layered with biases and double standards.USA made China most favourite trading nation 30 years ago and their economy took off... Big mistake, but the west thought they would follow the rules eventually... They had no intention of doing so and raped the world.
Rape the world? How dramatic... considering how the US operated in both Africa, and S.America for decades.. where do you think China learned how to behave like a superpower?
They've merely copied how both the US, and Russia (and the UK to a lesser degree) behaved internationally.It is what it is, but they have no intention of operating fairly with equal access to their markets... Time to treat them in exactly the same way they treat everyone else. Wechat needs to be blocked, market access needs to be curbed, their media needs to be shut down in the west etc... Until the stakes are equalled, they need to be disconnected.
Nope. You're right, they have no intention of operating fairly. Then again, neither has the US, except where it suited them to appear magnanimous and fair.. but when a country crossed them, they didn't hesitate to bully them into compliance.
But sure, go ahead. Try to isolate and alienate China.. which will simply reinforce their paranoia, and encourage their existing focus on Asia, and Africa, where they've already established themselves. Although, you might want to consider how much Western nations need Asia as a market.. and that many Asian nations are turning towards cooperation with China, regardless of the risks.
Lastly, nobody (China or western nations) wants equality... they want to have an advantage. You're obviously applying standards/attitudes to China that you're unwilling to apply to western nations.Their motto is unconventional warfare, because they could never have beaten the USA in that regard.
Rather smart of them actually. Now, compare the amount of wars the US has been involved in, vs those that China has been involved in... and the reasons behind those wars.Fair play to them for having the balls and long game to do this, but it needs to be snipped right now. Move all supply chains away and prevent investment there.
haha.. not going to happen. Oh, sure, some companies will withdraw from China, but it's not going to affect their economy that much, since they've secured their markets in Africa, and Asia.. both regions with the fastest growing populations in the world.0 -
I didnt watch it but I've seen some of their videos and are pretty good!
YEs, CHina has been clever about it up to now, destroying foreign industries with state-subsidized companies, go out and undercut companies in their own markets and globally with state funding, operating at a loss, and once the industry is destroyed put the prices back up to normal, such as steel/metal industries and many more.
Breaking international treaties with Hong Kong
Disappear people who disagree with them
Sow discontent in free countries
Lead propaganda on foreign media and on their own media internationally (CGTN etc) but not allow any foreign media in China
Blocking thousands of websites, apps etc like facebook, twitter.
Steal technology
Force technology transfers
Every actions they do is disgusting but it helps them, so if you can do it and get away with it then I guess its fair game, until its not.
They are acting out.
Look at their 250 ships docked at Phillipines now.
Look at their thousands of fishing vessels overfishing waters THAT ARE NOT THEIRS, destroying coral reefs
China added more coal power last year than the rest of the world combined even uses
Destroying Ozone layer with globally illegal substances
Hiding covid
Lying about its origins
Blame west for everything bad
What's up with the 250 vessels in Philipino seas now? What's up on the Indian border? What their involvment in Myanmar? Why build the artificial islands in international waters? Why flying nuclear bombers over Taiwan every other week?
USA made China most favourite trading nation 30 years ago and their economy took off... Big mistake, but the west thought they would follow the rules eventually... They had no intention of doing so and raped the world.
It is what it is, but they have no intention of operating fairly with equal access to their markets... Time to treat them in exactly the same way they treat everyone else. Wechat needs to be blocked, market access needs to be curbed, their media needs to be shut down in the west etc... Until the stakes are equalled, they need to be disconnected.
Their motto is unconventional warfare, because they could never have beaten the USA in that regard.
Fair play to them for having the balls and long game to do this, but it needs to be snipped right now. Move all supply chains away and prevent investment there.
I believe they are now planning to invest 200 billion in Iran.0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »Sure, they're pretty good, although they're layered with biases and double standards.
Rape the world? How dramatic... considering how the US operated in both Africa, and S.America for decades.. where do you think China learned how to behave like a superpower?
They've merely copied how both the US, and Russia (and the UK to a lesser degree) behaved internationally.
Nope. You're right, they have no intention of operating fairly. Then again, neither has the US, except where it suited them to appear magnanimous and fair.. but when a country crossed them, they didn't hesitate to bully them into compliance.
But sure, go ahead. Try to isolate and alienate China.. which will simply reinforce their paranoia, and encourage their existing focus on Asia, and Africa, where they've already established themselves. Although, you might want to consider how much Western nations need Asia as a market.. and that many Asian nations are turning towards cooperation with China, regardless of the risks.
Lastly, nobody (China or western nations) wants equality... they want to have an advantage. You're obviously applying standards/attitudes to China that you're unwilling to apply to western nations.
Rather smart of them actually. Now, compare the amount of wars the US has been involved in, vs those that China has been involved in... and the reasons behind those wars.
haha.. not going to happen. Oh, sure, some companies will withdraw from China, but it's not going to affect their economy that much, since they've secured their markets in Africa, and Asia.. both regions with the fastest growing populations in the world.
If all China investment was reallocated to the rest of Asia, wouldnt that gain more influence?
From what I can see, Asia are not "friends" with China, its more like they have no options and I dont think China is "liked" in Asia, rather hated... Whats that Pink tea alliance, India clashes, Japan aggression, Taiwan invasion threats, Australia tariffs etc.... I think you overestimate the hold on Asia they have.
In Africa the people are burning Chinese factories and businesses to the ground, similar to Myanmar.
I think if the investment was diverted away from China and into the rest of Asia would be infinitely better for the world.0 -
If all China investment was reallocated to the rest of Asia, wouldnt that gain more influence?
Don't quite understand your meaning with this.From what I can see, Asia are not "friends" with China, its more like they have no options and I dont think China is "liked" in Asia, rather hated... Whats that Pink tea alliance, India clashes, Japan aggression, Taiwan invasion threats, Australia tariffs etc.... I think you overestimate the hold on Asia they have.
I think you're not taking into account the cultures involved (and the history of the region). They've always hated/distrusted China, just as they have each other. S.Korea hates Japan. Doesn't mean that they won't become close trading partners if it means benefiting both.In Africa the people are burning Chinese factories and businesses to the ground, similar to Myanmar.
Yeah,. and they'll be back begging in a few months for Chinese attention.I think if the investment was diverted away from China and into the rest of Asia would be infinitely better for the world.
Oh. I get it now. You're talking about foreign companies basing themselves in China. Not actual investment in China. Ahh.. Nah. I don't agree with you, nor to I believe it's as important as you seem to think.. It was 20-30 years ago, not so much now.0 -
If all China investment was reallocated to the rest of Asia, wouldnt that gain more influence?
From what I can see, Asia are not "friends" with China, its more like they have no options and I dont think China is "liked" in Asia, rather hated... Whats that Pink tea alliance, India clashes, Japan aggression, Taiwan invasion threats, Australia tariffs etc.... I think you overestimate the hold on Asia they have.
In Africa the people are burning Chinese factories and businesses to the ground, similar to Myanmar.
I think if the investment was diverted away from China and into the rest of Asia would be infinitely better for the world.
So the rest of the world should stop trading with China because one clueless person in Ireland doesn't like that they use coal plants, even though his own country uses them too.
From your big list have you ever thought that other Asian countries might be worse? That they're unstable and can't give the same production insurance?
Should we stop trading with the USA and the UK because of their war mongering? Should we stop using oil from Saudi Arabia and Russian due to their unethical ways? What about from dictators in Africa that use child soldiers should we stop using their resources?
Should counties stop trading with us because of our un married women slave camps and forced abortions?
I'm afraid sir that you're too naïve to how the world is.0 -
For chief executives [and boards] around the world, watching the Chinese government go after Swedish clothier Hennes & Mauritz AB is excruciating — facing the evaporation of your hard-won China business over political issues largely out of your control,’ writes Michael Schuman in Bloomberg.’
‘But it could be the new normal.’
‘As relations between China and the U.S. and its allies deteriorate, Western businesses could increasingly get dragged into the fray.’
Mr. Schuman is of course right.
His comments though only capture one aspect of the challenges facing companies doing business in or with China or relying on Chinese supply chains.
George Mangus of Oxford gets a little closer. Writing in the Financial Times,
‘Business risks for foreign companies in China are increasing after the recent exchange of sanctions between Beijing and western governments.’
‘For foreign companies in China, the options seem delicately balanced.’
‘If they stand up for principles, they may put revenues at risk and will incur extra costs as they develop new supply chains.’
‘Yet if they prioritise their China profits, they could do irretrievable damage to their brands at home and in other markets, falling foul of shareholders and changing governance requirements.’
‘It is an invidious choice but the latter is likely to be far more damaging to longer term performance and earnings, and corrosive of trust in the brand.’
Matt Pottinger, former Deputy National Security Advisor, broadens Mr. Magnus’ point in a Wall Street Journal op-ed, ‘Beijing Targets American Business’:
‘American businessmen, wishing for simple, lucrative commercial ties, have long resisted viewing U.S.-China relations as an ideological struggle.
‘But strategic guidance issued by the leaders of both countries make clear the matter is settled: The ideological dimension of the competition is inescapable, even central.
Mr. Pottinger also captures an additional dimension: ‘Another notable element of Beijing’s approach is its explicit goal of making the world permanently dependent on China, and exploiting that dependency for political ends.’
‘In a speech Mr. Xi delivered early last year, published only in late October in the party’s leading theoretical journal, Qiu Shi, he said China “must tighten international production chains’ dependence on China” with the aim of “forming powerful countermeasures and deterrent capabilities.” ’
Drawn into an ideological struggle; threatened with boycotts or worse; caught between the China market on the one hand and shareholders and consumers on the other; faced with the possibility of weaponized supply chains – that’s a lot of new stuff for CEOs and directors to integrate into their strategic planning.
But it’s even tougher – and more uncertain - than that.
A lot of what China is doing just doesn’t make sense for China itself.
As John Promfret points out in a Washington Post op-ed:
‘Across the globe, Xi’s diplomatic representatives in Europe, Beijing, Hong Kong, Canada, Australia and elsewhere, are lifting up rocks and smashing their own feet.’
‘The moves are befuddling — with a buoyant economy and a practically covid-free country, China is poised to see its influence rise if it plays it smart.’
‘But it’s not; instead, it’s alienating individuals and nations across the world.’
‘I’ve been studying China for my entire adult life and I have to admit to being bewildered by China’s performance.’
‘But I’m in good company. Thirty-one years ago, the great political scientist Lucian Pye wrote, “Just when all appears to be going well, Chinese officials create problems for seemingly unaccountable reasons.” ’
Because China seems so willing to smash its own feet for ‘seemingly unaccountable reasons,’ it’s hard to predict – and plan for - what China might do next.
All the while the environment that businesses are operating in globally is in flux.
The battle lines between China and the U.S. and other countries are far from settled.
For its part, China, after some advancing and retreating, seems to have decided to go full ‘Wolf Warrior.’
‘Under Xi, China appears to have adopted the mantra that it is better to be feared than liked. China is committed to sending a message that it will not take a punch without throwing a counterpunch,’ says Ryan Hass of Brookings.
So much for Robert Zoellick's hopes for China's becoming a 'responsible shareholder' in the current world order.
The U.S. appears to be firming up a policy of straight confrontation with a few pauses for issues like climate change.
With China both ready to punch and counterpunch, expect rapid escalation in tensions.
As for the EU, careful to preserve its distance between the U.S. and China, China has now, as the Financial Times puts it, ‘forced the EU to reassess its China strategy.’
‘China’s response to the EU’s stand on Xinjiang abuses still feels like a turning point in EU-China ties.’
Which way will the EU turn? Stay tuned for the outcome.
And across Asia, China’s aggressive attitude and actions are causing countries there to rethink their relations with China.
At the same, with the Biden administration’s interest in firming up alliances, many of those countries – even unlikely ones, like Vietnam - are inching to closer to the U.S. as a counterweight to China.
Until each of these settles into a discernible strategy for dealing with the others, flux will continue to equal uncertainty.
Finally, add to the mix flashpoints like Taiwan, the South & East China Seas, the Sino-Indian border, and North Korea.
If any of these points flashes, commerce will collapse; or markets will tumble; or supply chains will be cut; or any and all of these.
All by way of saying, CEOs and boards are encountering new, unprecedented levels of complexity and uncertainty.
And with this, a nuts and bolts problem of developing systems and methods to track and understand each of these moving parts as it moves and how it interacts with the others.
Then adjust and adapt quickly - until the next part moves.
And that goes for the rest of us too.
For those of you who haven't kept up with the current Chinese boycotts, we start with short pieces from Bloomberg and The Economist.
Then expanded insights from George Magnus, Matt Pottinger, and John Pomfret, all quoted above.
Note: I especially like John Promfret's essay.
Makes me feel better to know I'm not the only one who can't understand why doing what it's doing.0 -
Chile has vaccinated most people in Latin America, but is facing a new wave of COVID. Looks like it could be because they’ve mostly used the Chinese “Sinovac”.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-is-vaccinated-chile-locking-down-again-
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/mar/28/chile-coronavirus-lockdowns-vaccination-success
Seems this was reported already in Brazil in 2020.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN28X2CR
Same old story “... and will add to criticism that Chinese vaccine makers have lacked transparency.”0 -
BIG IDEA | ‘While both Western and Asian companies have frequently been targets of Chinese nationalism over the years, the latest flurry signals a shift in strategy by President Xi Jinping’s government as it confronts a more unified approach from the U.S. and its allies.’
'Foreign companies operating in China across a range of industries could find themselves in the geopolitical firing line, facing pressure from Beijing to keep quiet on human rights just as global investors put more weight on environmental, social and governance issues.’
‘China has pushed a campaign to boycott Western retailers after the U.S., U.K., Canada and the European Union imposed sanctions over human-rights abuses against ethnic minority Uyghurs in Xinjiang.’
‘The furor started when the Communist Youth League amplified a months-old statement from Sweden’s Hennes & Mauritz AB expressing concern about reports of forced labor in the far west region, and quickly spread to other companies.’
‘Shares of H&M, Nike Inc. and others plummeted as Chinese government officials endorsed the boycotts and celebrities cut ties with brands including Adidas, New Balance and Japan’s Uniqlo.’
‘While both Western and Asian companies have frequently been targets of Chinese nationalism over the years, the latest flurry signals a shift in strategy by President Xi Jinping’s government as it confronts a more unified approach from the U.S. and its allies.’
‘Analysts say the Communist Party is betting that a response that inflicts financial costs on companies will be popular at home, show China stands on equal footing with the U.S. and help thwart President Joe Biden’s efforts to heap more pressure on Beijing over human rights.’
‘Although Xinjiang is in the spotlight now, Chinese diplomats made clear during tense talks with U.S. counterparts in Alaska last week that Xi’s administration is drawing a firm line against what it calls “interference” in “internal affairs” including Hong Kong, Tibet and Taiwan.’
‘That raises the prospect that foreign companies operating in China across a range of industries could find themselves in the geopolitical firing line, facing pressure from Beijing to keep quiet on human rights just as global investors put more weight on environmental, social and governance issues.’
BIG IDEA | ‘Western executives in China cannot shake an unsettling fear that this time is different.’
‘Their lucrative Chinese operations are at rising risk of tumbling into the political chasm that has opened between the West and China.’
‘Boycotts of foreign brands are so common in China that managers have a ready-made playbook when caught in a storm of nationalist outrage.’
‘Start with an apology. Then stay mostly quiet, perhaps expressing respect for Chinese culture. Wait for the anger to subside.’
[Boycotts have been in the Chinese, not just Chinese Communist Party’s, toolkit for a long time: I am currently reading A Study of Chinese Boycotts, with Special Reference to Their Economic Effectiveness, published in 1933.]
‘Over the past week the list of companies consulting the manual has grown.’
‘Chinese consumers, egged on by the ruling Communist Party, vowed to shun some of the world’s biggest clothing companies, from Adidas to Zara.’
‘In the eyes of the boycotters, the firms erred by declaring concern over allegations that China’s cotton industry includes the forced labour of Uyghurs, a mostly Muslim ethnic minority in the north-western region of Xinjiang.’
‘Their bosses hope that the controversy will fizzle out.’
‘But they and other Western executives in China cannot shake an unsettling fear that this time is different.’
‘Their lucrative Chinese operations are at rising risk of tumbling into the political chasm that has opened between the West and China.’
'H&M, a Swedish fast-fashion retailer, faces the most immediate trouble.’
'As of March 30th, a week after it was attacked online, its garments were still unavailable on China’s most popular e-commerce apps. Its stores have disappeared from smartphone maps. Landlords in several shopping malls have terminated its leases.’
'Its Chinese business, worth $1bn in revenues and representing 5% of its global sales in 2020, is in jeopardy.’
‘Little by little the social-media mob has dwindled amid signs that government censors were reining it in, perhaps to lower the heat.’
‘The share prices of foreign firms entangled in the boycotts have clawed back most of their initial losses.’
‘Foreign executives, however, remain on edge.’
'The issue at the heart of their current problems—China’s human-rights violations in Xinjiang, and the West’s newfound willingness to punish them—is one for which the tried and tested playbook is ill-suited.'
'It may also be more expansive, seeping into many other corners of their business dealings in the world’s second-biggest economy.’
‘Mei Xinyu, a researcher with the Ministry of Commerce, has written that cotton is the “entry point” for America’s strategy of using the Xinjiang allegations to suppress China, which denies any forced labour is taking place.’
‘China’s only choice, he says, is to fight back forcefully.’
‘The Communist Party is confident of its abilities to do so, thanks to what it calls the “powerful gravitational field” of its market.’
‘American-listed firms which regularly report their revenues from China or Asia, and can thus be assumed to have larger exposure to the country, have outperformed those that do not in recent years (see chart above).’
‘An apology, the first step in mending fences, is untenable this time.’
‘Many people inside foreign companies “recognise the moral gravity of what’s happening in Xinjiang”, says Scott Nova of the Worker Rights Consortium, a labour-monitoring organisation.’
‘Those that do not must still comply with the American ban on cotton imports if shipping to America.’
‘This earns them little sympathy in China.’
‘Foreign firms have found it virtually impossible to get audiences with Chinese officials to explain their legal obligations in America, says a government-relations expert.’
BIG IDEA | ‘Business risks for foreign companies in China are increasing after the recent exchange of sanctions between Beijing and western governments.’
‘For foreign companies in China, the options seem delicately balanced. If they stand up for principles, they may put revenues at risk and will incur extra costs as they develop new supply chains. Yet if they prioritise their China profits, they could do irretrievable damage to their brands at home and in other markets, falling foul of shareholders and changing governance requirements.’
‘It is an invidious choice but the latter is likely to be far more damaging to longer term performance and earnings, and corrosive of trust in the brand.’
‘Business risks for foreign companies in China are increasing after the recent exchange of sanctions between Beijing and western governments.’
‘The immediate problem is the row engulfing firms with a presence in or ties to Xinjiang province, amid allegations of forced labour, human rights abuses and genocide.’
‘Many firms are getting embroiled in a debate about profit versus principle, probably forcing them to choose between aligning with the governance system propagated by China and that of their home countries.’
‘Scores of large foreign companies have a presence in Xinjiang.’
‘These include over 50 American firms listed in the Fortune 500.’
‘Almost 70 European firms listed either in the Euro Stoxx 50 index or in the Global Fortune 500 do business there.’
‘Moreover, according to the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, about 83 foreign and Chinese firms use some 80,000 Uyghur workers who have been transferred from Xinjiang to work in poor conditions in 27 factories in nine provinces.’
‘Now many foreign companies may find themselves on the wrong end of corporate coercion in China, or of corporate governance in their own countries, or both.’
‘Corporate coercion occurs in China in a myriad of ways, most of which firms learn to manage.’
‘From time to time, though, it takes on an overt political tone.’
‘In the latest example, H&M, the Swedish clothing firm that announced it would stop sourcing cotton in Xinjiang, was removed from leading Chinese ecommerce, ride-hailing, mapping and other apps.’
‘It became the target of protests, boycott demands and social media abuse.’
‘The row has spilled over to include other brands, such as Adidas and Nike, with supply chain operations centred on China.’
‘These spats have historically tended to peter out without longer-term commercial disruption.
‘Yet firms would do well to consider if this time things will be different.’
‘The geopolitical backdrop is more volatile than at any time since companies started to flock to China.’
‘Furthermore, negative perceptions about China in liberal-leaning western democracies and in Asia are at record levels.’
‘If companies ignore allegations or findings about Xinjiang-related abuses, there may be adverse consequences for them and their shareholders.’
‘If they stand up for principles, they may put revenues at risk and will incur extra costs as they develop new supply chains.’
‘Yet if they prioritise their China profits, they could do irretrievable damage to their brands at home and in other markets, falling foul of shareholders and changing governance requirements.’
‘It is an invidious choice but the latter is likely to be far more damaging to longer term performance and earnings, and corrosive of trust in the brand.’0 -
So the rest of the world should stop trading with China because one clueless person in Ireland doesn't like that they use coal plants, even though his own country uses them too.
If climate change is real, China coal usage and coal plant construction are off the scale compared to the rest of the world. And should be a very serious concern for the rest of the world. Last year Xi Jinping spoke of China “going green” etc. While new coal plants came online in 2020!
Ireland has a mix of power sources including one coal plant, Moneypoint, built in 1985. Which is due to be decommissioned this decade.0 -
BIG IDEA |.... ’
I don't know why this comes as a shock to you, Chinese people are very proud of their country, any negativity will lead the people not to buy the product. Similar to how Irish people wouldn't wear Reebok as it had a Union Jack on it.
And companies are lining up to sell products to China, foreign products have a huge markup in China and there's no shortage of buyers.0 -
If climate change is real, China coal usage and coal plant construction are off the scale compared to the rest of the world. And should be a very serious concern for the rest of the world. Last year Xi Jinping spoke of China “going green” etc. While new coal plants came online in 2020!
Ireland has a mix of power sources including one coal plant, Moneypoint, built in 1985. Which is due to be decommissioned this decade.
Well... let's consider their energy requirements. The city (roughly 9 million people, and a core area for their Aerospace industry) where I live has 6 coal plants, along with another three which are oil based. When I first came there a decade ago, they had 9 coal plants, and four oil. They've been retrofitting the coal and oil plants, aiming to replace their needs with nuclear, and clean energy sources. However, they had an explosion about two years back which set their plans awry.
I don't think people here appreciate the scale of China. Even in the 1960s China was mostly an agricultural society, with little in the way of infrastructure or anything modern. And yet, many people seem to think that in 40 years they should have been able to modernize their whole country, embracing expensive clean technologies immediately. Which is bizarre, since few western nations have managed to so with less demands on population or territory.
China is aiming to become more "green". They have to considering the amount of pollution they're facing within their country.. but it's not going to happen quickly, and anyone who expects it to happen without setbacks is being terribly unrealistic.
The comparison with Ireland is ridiculous. How about we look at the US instead? Although even then, the comparison is lacking considering the economic powerhouse they've been for over a century now.
"In 2020, about 4,009 billion kilowatthours (kWh) (or about 4.01 trillion kWh) of electricity were generated at utility-scale electricity generation facilities in the United States.1 About 60% of this electricity generation was from fossil fuels—coal, natural gas, petroleum, and other gases. About 20% was from nuclear energy, and about 20% was from renewable energy sources."
I get it. China should be more careful with it's contributions to pollution.. they should be.. but let's stop some of the BS, and apply the same expectations on western countries who have also made grand claims, and failed to meet their targets.0 -
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ngJLi9cgYs&ab_channel=ChinaUncensored
China vs. Philippines | Dangerous Dispute in South China Sea0
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