What is our plan?

i_surge

aido79 wrote: »

I'm beginning to doubt you even live in Ireland. Have you ever been to the border? Some people actually have houses where their kitchen is in the Republic and their bedroom is in the North and you're asking how much border crossing was happening at peak lockdown.

You don't seem to have a clue who the DUP are either.

I am aware but it isn't an area I know a lot about. I don't need to, my principles are sound.

Can you answer my question about mobility during lockdown?

aido79

i_surge wrote: »

I am aware but it isn't an area I know a lot about. I don't need to, my principles are sound.

Can you answer my question about mobility during lockdown?

How do you mean your principles are sound? You haven't a clue what you are talking about so how can your principles be sound?

Northern Ireland didn't have the same travel restrictions as the Republic so while people in the Republic could only travel 5kms in the first phase of the lockdown anyone crossing from the north could travel as far as they liked as the restrictions didn't apply to them.

Have you ever been to the border?

i_surge

aido79 wrote: »

How do you mean your principles are sound? You haven't a clue what you are talking about so how can your principles be sound?

Northern Ireland didn't have the same travel restrictions as the Republic so while people in the Republic could only travel 5kms in the first phase of the lockdown anyone crossing from the north could travel as far as they liked as the restrictions didn't apply to them.

Have you ever been to the border?

I spent a month studying the virus at the start. Mathematically, it all boils down to a single factor...the degree of social mixing. Those sort of principles! The virus doesn't give a **** about arbitrary lines in the ground imposed by humans, thus neither do I.

It is a different attitude. Blue sky or grey clouds. We can agree to differ, your points are valid.

aido79

i_surge wrote: »

I spent a month studying the virus at the start. Mathematically, it all boils down to a single factor...the degree of social mixing. Those sort of principles! The virus doesn't give a **** about arbitrary lines in the ground imposed by humans, thus neither do I.

It is a different attitude. Blue sky or grey clouds. We can agree to differ, your points are valid.

You might want to educate yourself on those arbitrary lines on the ground if you are going to continue spouting nonsense about an all island approach which you haven't the first clue of the difficulties in implementing it.

By the way when I asked if you'd been to the border it was a trick question. There is no border. One minute you are driving and the road signs are in km/h, the next minute they are in mph. That's the only way you know you've crossed the border most of the time. Closing it would be impossible.

almostover

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Any plan is better than no plan. At least with a plan you have control and you have an exit strategy.

We have no exit strategy.

We're waiting on a vaccine that could come next year or might never be 100% effective or might not have enough of a takeup.

Hate to break it to you, there is no exit strategy. Not until we can vaccinate people. This is our new normal for the foreseeable. Time to make peace with that fact

i_surge

aido79 wrote: »

You might want to educate yourself on those arbitrary lines on the ground if you are going to continue spouting nonsense about an all island approach which you haven't the first clue of the difficulties in implementing it.

By the way when I asked if you'd been to the border it was a trick question. There is no border. One minute you are driving and the road signs are in km/h, the next minute they are in mph. That's the only way you know you've crossed the border most of the time. Closing it would be impossible.

Everything is impossible to those who cant see outside their own bubble.

The county borders are also invisible. 3 were locked down this evening. Compliance is assumed and the majority follow it.

Every measure is a step in a right direction. They are additive, marginal gains strategies won many Olympic gold medals for the UK.

aido79

i_surge wrote: »

Everything is impossible to those who cant see outside their own bubble.

The county borders are also invisible. 3 were locked down this evening. Compliance is assumed and the majority follow it.

Every measure is a step in a right direction. They are additive, marginal gains strategies won many Olympic gold medals for the UK.

Those 3 counties are in the Republic. I presume you understand that much?
The Irish government has no control over the 6 counties in Northern Ireland so can't stop people leaving or entering them.
Do your own research if you need it simplified further.

What has Olympic gold medals for the UK got to do with any of this?

i_surge

aido79 wrote: »

Those 3 counties are in the Republic. I presume you understand that much?
The Irish government has no control over the 6 counties in Northern Ireland so can't stop people leaving or entering them.
Do your own research if you need it simplified further.

What has Olympic gold medals for the UK got to do with any of this?

I'm tired of explaining the same basic things to you over and over. You focus on the obstacles, I focus on the opportunities, simply a personality difference.

Marginal gains, you do loads of small things in the right direction, no stone unturned and it adds up to a decent performance improvement.

I already know and accept there are serious issues to be overcome, no excuse for not trying.

We are also facing a serious issue right now, the biggest of our lifetimes. That's it. Signing out from this discussion.

kippy

People need to wake up a bit. The only solution is a complete closure of all borders and a heavily enforced lockdown for 3 weeks, with a continued border closure until a vaccine is found OR the acceptance that anything else is going to involve either localised lockdowns and the nation to generally continue to adhere to best practices.

While the virus is at the levels it is currently at, one can see that schools may return for a week or two but will be minefields when it comes to transmission and lots of localised shutdowns will occur early on. The nearest mention of symptoms will involve chaos in schools.

As some have said we are less than 6 months into this pandemic with many more to go unfortunately given our national options.

aido79

i_surge wrote: »

I'm tired of explaining the same basic things to you over and over. You focus on the obstacles, I focus on the opportunities, simply a personality difference.

Marginal gains, you do loads of small things in the right direction, no stone unturned and it adds up to a decent performance improvement.

I already know and accept there are serious issues to be overcome, no excuse for not trying.

We are also facing a serious issue right now, the biggest of our lifetimes. That's it. Signing out from this discussion.

You're looking for some textbook approach where everyone is on the same team. The DUP are a big obstacle who will never take any advice from the Irish government. They take their orders and advice from London and that won't change even if it goes against all logic and your studies of the virus.
We could spend months or years doing our best to eradicate the virus from the Republic but if people are still arriving into Belfast and crossing into the Republic there is always a chance of cases getting into the Republic.

I'd love to see an all island approach and I think it's by far the most logical thing but I understand enough to know it will never happen. If you are willing to do some research on politics in Northern Ireland I'm sure you will reach the same conclusion.

dere34

We need to take the EU/international border in Ireland and dump it between England and Scotland. Ireland would handle this better united and Scotland independent.

fly_agaric

i_surge wrote: »

I'm tired of explaining the same basic things to you over and over. You focus on the obstacles, I focus on the opportunities, simply a personality difference.

Marginal gains, you do loads of small things in the right direction, no stone unturned and it adds up to a decent performance improvement.

I already know and accept there are serious issues to be overcome, no excuse for not trying.

We are also facing a serious issue right now, the biggest of our lifetimes. That's it. Signing out from this discussion.

Oh we can try alright + do much better than we have done as regards inwards travel and that should keep cases lower.

However as suggested by many others, if you look into it a bit you'll see NI is one issue that is beyond Ireland's ken or ability to resolve, as it has been for pushing on for 1 century now. Without the whole island on board at least, we cannot succeed at "elimination" and get the entire benefits of a success with that policy. We will still need some restrictions I think + constant checking for new outbreaks/spread in the "community" etc.

You keep going on about Asia (our "betters" as you put it).
Your concept of "well, just do it" (do what exactly about NI (UK), build the wall, conscript people to the army to [try to] police the border, threaten them with an invasion!? :pac: ) + hang any human consequences is a bit authoritarian.

i_surge

fly_agaric wrote: »

Oh we can try alright + do much better than we have done as regards inwards travel and that should keep cases lower.

However as suggested by many others, if you look into it a bit you'll see NI is one issue that is beyond Ireland's ken or ability to resolve, as it has been for pushing on for 1 century now. Without the whole island on board at least, we cannot succeed at "elimination" and get the entire benefits of a success with that policy. We will still need some restrictions I think + constant checking for new outbreaks/spread in the "community" etc.

You keep going on about Asia (our "betters" as you put it).
Your concept of "well, just do it" (do what exactly about UK/NI?) + hang any human consequences is a bit authoritarian.

It is libertarian...do what is needed to maximise freedom in the long run.

At least sit down at a table, start some process of diplomacy and have a serious discussion with NI powers about options. We should all be in this together regardless of creed or politics.

fly_agaric

i_surge wrote: »

It is libertarian...do what is needed to maximise freedom in the long run.

At least sit down at a table, start some process of diplomacy and have a serious discussion with NI powers about options. We should all be in this together regardless of creed or politics.

As far as I know (from media reports etc over last few months) they are talking to each other regularly at least (better than nothing), but there is obviously no agreement on having a unified approach. The only joint project that comes to mind is the mobile phone application (applications are interoperable + we are sharing the database/positive test keys).

MadYaker

My plan is to open a bottle of whiskey because al the beer is gone