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Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

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    #452
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    circadian wrote: »
    Not sure what your point is here.

    That's ok.


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    #453
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    salmocab wrote: »
    Only one of them questioned the likes of mc cain and claimed he knew more than generals.

    Bill Clinton gave the order to bomb Yugoslavia for 78 days
    Bush presidency was responsible for the deaths of up to 200k Iraqi and Afghani civilians
    Sanders won nothing despite decades in politics.

    Trump though. So bold


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    #454
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,320 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    Bill Clinton gave the order to bomb Yugoslavia for 78 days
    Bush presidency was responsible for the deaths of up to 200k Iraqi and Afghani civilians
    Sanders won nothing despite decades in politics.

    Trump though. So bold

    Not sure your making a point here.


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    #455
    extra gravy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,625 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    salmocab wrote: »
    Not sure your making a point here.

    It's just the usual whataboutery.


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    #456
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,262 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    A jaysus poor Joe. Haven't heard that fact mentioned too much.
    Almost as if different people are held to different standards. Say it ain't so

    Do you think he should have gone to Vietnam to fight in a war if he had asthma?


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    #457
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,262 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    Bill Clinton gave the order to bomb Yugoslavia for 78 days
    Bush presidency was responsible for the deaths of up to 200k Iraqi and Afghani civilians
    Sanders won nothing despite decades in politics.

    Trump though. So bold

    Trump is busy killing America citizens.
    Over 130 THOUSAND so far.


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    #458
    ChelseaRentBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 474 ✭✭ChelseaRentBoy


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    Bill Clinton gave the order to bomb Yugoslavia for 78 days
    Bush presidency was responsible for the deaths of up to 200k Iraqi and Afghani civilians
    Sanders won nothing despite decades in politics.

    Trump though. So bold

    Funny thing is I remember when Trump was running for election every single liberal I spoke to told me he'd start WW3...

    He's the most peaceful president they've ever had but you know orange man bad etc...


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    #459
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Cody montana wrote: »
    Do you think he should have gone to Vietnam to fight in a war if he had asthma?

    Yes.


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    #460
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,262 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    Yes.

    Then I can’t help you I’m afraid, you’ve gone too far.


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    #461
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ExMachina1000 wrote:
    Trump, Bill Clinton, Bush and Sanders all dodged the draft under various excuses.

    I'd have no problem with trying to dodge the draft either, wars are generally started for the benefit of the few, while many soldiers forced into war are from poorer backrounds, wars rarely solve anything, but regularly cause far worse outcomes.
    ExMachina1000 wrote:
    Bill Clinton gave the order to bomb Yugoslavia for 78 days Bush presidency was responsible for the deaths of up to 200k Iraqi and Afghani civilians Sanders won nothing despite decades in politics.

    Sanders has given millions of people globally some sort of hope that all this can be turned around before we destroy ourselves, he has mobilised these people, provided them with energy and momentum, he has shown it is in possible to elect an intelligent and caring person


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    #462
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,262 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »
    Funny thing is I remember when Trump was running for election every single liberal I spoke to told me he'd start WW3...

    He's the most peaceful president they've ever had but you know orange man bad etc...

    The most peaceful president?
    A quick google gives me this.

    “Record 7,423 US bombs dropped in Afghanistan in 2019: Report“

    “Under Donald Trump, drone strikes far exceed Obama’s numbers“

    Are you people connected to any form of reality?


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    #463
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Cody montana wrote: »
    Trump is busy killing America citizens.
    Over 130 THOUSAND so far.

    In that case Pedro Sanchez is responsible for the deaths of 28403 people
    Giuseppe Conti is responsible for the deaths of 34945 people
    Emmanuel Macton is responsible for the deaths of 30004 people
    Etc etc

    What about Leo? Is he responsible for the deaths here too?

    Ridiculous


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    #464
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,565 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Its is always very when Trump supporters, who supported him because he tells it like it is, going to drain the swamp, sort out the elites and put manners on politicians, always use these very same politicians as an excuse for Trump.

    If we take ExM at there word, then Trump is no better or worse than all the other politicians for either side.

    So its gone from Trump going to MAGA to Trump is equally as terrible as all the politicians I hate.


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    #465
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Sanders has given millions of people globally some sort of hope that all this can be turned around before we destroy ourselves, he has mobilised these people, provided them with energy and momentum, he has shown it is in possible to elect an intelligent and caring person

    When did this happen?
    Hes been preaching the same for literally decades yet here we are. He got nowhere


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    #466
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Its is always very when Trump supporters, who supported him because he tells it like it is, going to drain the swamp, sort out the elites and put manners on politicians, always use these very same politicians as an excuse for Trump.

    If we take ExM at there word, then Trump is no better or worse than all the other politicians for either side.

    So its gone from Trump going to MAGA to Trump is equally as terrible as all the politicians I hate.

    I don't like Trump whatsoever. The billionaire who cares about the little guy. Yeah right. His election campaign played a blinder. He will be out on his ear by end of election no doubt. He has helped make the world a worse place.

    Trump won because people are desperate. The economy of the world relys on constant growth. People are being left behind. Trump ran on a campaign of blaming the other guy. People fell for it.

    Not everything in life is pidgeon holed into left v right. People seem to have forgotten that


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    #467
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,486 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »
    Funny thing is I remember when Trump was running for election every single liberal I spoke to told me he'd start WW3...

    He's the most peaceful president they've ever had but you know orange man bad etc...

    What makes you say that?


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    #468
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,565 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    When did this happen?
    Hes been preaching the same for literally decades yet here we are. He got nowhere

    Covid will, hopefully at least something good may come of it, shows America's the value of healthcare available to all. Essentially Trump has made Covid Testing free to all. Will people be able to see that giving people access to healthcare is best for everyone?

    Also, given his handouts to the farmers, his handouts to companies to keep jobs, his bailouts to companies, his $1500 payment to everyone, isn't Trump the real socialist?

    Seems to me if one is scared of a drift to socialism then Trump is one to steer clear of.


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    #469
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ExMachina1000 wrote:
    When did this happen? Hes been preaching the same for literally decades yet here we are. He got nowhere


    Its been happening ever since he was elected, it's been a gradual process, he's potentially been one of the most successful American politicans to reach a wide audience globally, including here in Ireland, in which he's been able to gather large amounts of people to hear him speak, he's extremely intelligent and well informed. You don't need to win to get somewhere in life


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    #470
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,262 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    In that case Pedro Sanchez is responsible for the deaths of 28403 people
    Giuseppe Conti is responsible for the deaths of 34945 people
    Emmanuel Macton is responsible for the deaths of 30004 people
    Etc etc

    What about Leo? Is he responsible for the deaths here too?

    Ridiculous

    Every other leader took the virus seriously.
    Trump lied and downplayed it at every turn.

    Thousands of lives could have been saved.
    He is responsible.


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    #471
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Covid will, hopefully at least something good may come of it, shows America's the value of healthcare available to all. Essentially Trump has made Covid Testing free to all. Will people be able to see that giving people access to healthcare is best for everyone?

    Also, given his handouts to the farmers, his handouts to companies to keep jobs, his bailouts to companies, his $1500 payment to everyone, isn't Trump the real socialist?

    Seems to me if one is scared of a drift to socialism then Trump is one to steer clear of.

    Society needs both capitalism and socialism to function. Economic growth is essential. Looking after people who are struggling is essential.

    There has to be an agreeable mix in there that can be found. Division and hatred means nobody wins.

    *Except the rich and powerful who live by a different set of rules


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    #472
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,146 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    extra gravy wrote: »
    It's just the usual whataboutery.

    It's tiring actually, same thing every time like clockwork. It makes no point because there isn't a point to make just an attempt to start the circle of look over there again.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #473
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Cody montana wrote: »
    Every other leader took the virus seriously.
    Trump lied and downplayed it at every turn.

    Thousands of lives could have been saved.
    He is responsible.

    State governors are free to make their own decisions as per a federal system. But it definitely starts at the top. To say he is responsible for the deaths while no other leader is just sounds ridiculous


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    #474
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ExMachina1000 wrote:
    Society needs both capitalism and socialism to function. Economic growth is essential. Looking after people who are struggling is essential.


    Society is in desperate need of a new form of capitalism, our current form, neoliberalism/neoclassical, is slowly failing all, including for the wealthy, possibly collapsing


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    #475
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,565 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    In that case Pedro Sanchez is responsible for the deaths of 28403 people
    Giuseppe Conti is responsible for the deaths of 34945 people
    Emmanuel Macton is responsible for the deaths of 30004 people
    Etc etc

    What about Leo? Is he responsible for the deaths here too?

    Ridiculous

    Essentially yes, that is what being a leader is all about, being responsible.

    The mitigation is how they dealt with the crisis. Did they take it seriously, did they follow medical and scientific advice or ignore it? The virus itself is not their fault, but their response is.

    On any measurement Trump response has not only not being sufficient, he has actively worked to increase the effect through disinformation, politcalization and, quite frankly, his complete incompetence.

    He has failed to land even within the generous standards that he set himself. So by his own admission he has failed.


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    #476
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Society is in desperate need of a new form of capitalism, our current form, neoliberalism/neoclassical, is slowly failing all, including for the wealthy, possibly collapsing

    I agree.


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    #477
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    StringerBell wrote: »
    It's tiring actually, same thing every time like clockwork. It makes no point because there isn't a point to make just an attempt to start the circle of look over there again.

    You will never agree with me and I will never agree with you.
    Iv accepted it, time you did so too.

    Nice little poem


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    #478
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,192 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    You will never agree with me and I will never agree with you.
    Iv accepted it, time you did so too.

    Nice little poem

    Do you think that political leaders bear no responsibility for anything that happens under their administration then?

    I mean, surely when there's a catastrophe, let's say a tsunami, while nobody would blame the PM at the time for the event itself, they do have to take some responsibility for how the emergency services respond, whether they were sufficiently well funded and so on?

    Otherwise, what are elected representatives for, if not just to get their noses in the trough?


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    #479
    Lolle06
    Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭Lolle06


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    State governors are free to make their own decisions as per a federal system. But it definitely starts at the top. To say he is responsible for the deaths while no other leader is just sounds ridiculous

    Oh, I must have missed Leo, Macron, Conti etc. telling us all that Covid-19 will be gone by April...? When did they say that? Did they also peddle certain made-up „treatments„ to their people ? Or did they wish to hold back testing, because it would make the numbers look „bad“? Did they reduce the Global Pandemic Response team by 80% in their countries, too? Or sell medical equipment abroad even though they were already informed that a pandemic is imminent to hit their own country? Please, point me to this information because I can‘t seem to find it...?


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    #480
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,486 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    State governors are free to make their own decisions as per a federal system. But it definitely starts at the top. To say he is responsible for the deaths while no other leader is just sounds ridiculous

    From the man himself. Or do his own words not count when it's him in the firing line?

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/398887965302091776?s=20


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    #481
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    volchitsa wrote: »
    Do you think that political leaders bear no responsibility for anything that happens under their administration then?

    I mean, surely when there's a catastrophe, let's say a tsunami, while nobody would blame the PM at the time for the event itself, they do have to take some responsibility for how the emergency services respond, whether they were sufficiently well funded and so on?

    Otherwise, what are elected representatives for, if not just to get their noses in the trough?

    Of course they do. They aren't held to account enough in most cases. We rumble on from scandal to scandal here.

    In the American case Trump was very poor from the start. Always one eye on the election and economy. He doesn't give a hoot about the common man or woman.

    If you want to throw Trump under the bus I'd suggest throwing the governors in there too. The mayor of New York goes in second


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