Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

ancapailldorcha

This thread is a continuation of the megathreads for discussing the presidency of Donald Trump and any matters which relate to this.

Please keep discussion civil and constructive and bear the charter in mind before posting.

Update 23/9/20:

Threadbanned users:

Outlaw Pete
everlast75
mcmoustache
lawrencesummers
RIGOLO

Cody montana

White House press secretary claims Donald Trump 'does read and he's the most informed man on planet Earth when it comes to the threats we face' - after he DENIED being briefed on Russian bounties

Didn’t he think Finland was part of Russia?

Water John

Well, its just he's living in the wrong time, Finland was in the 19thC.

StringerBell

They just lie all the time. It's incredible, lie lie lie. It does make you realise in case you ever forget that he may be a pretty big symptom but he is just a symptom of a bigger problem.

pixelburp

America First in action it seems: the US has bought 90% of world supplies of a key CoVid treatment drug, leaving the rest of the world lacking for the next 3 months. Only one company holds the patent (insert Big Pharma rant here). Says a lot IMO when an institution supposedly meant to make sober, considered actions behaves like a panicky hoarder buying up all the loo roll.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/30/us-buys-up-world-stock-of-key-covid-19-drug

Itssoeasy

Cody montana wrote: »

White House press secretary claims Donald Trump 'does read and he's the most informed man on planet Earth when it comes to the threats we face' - after he DENIED being briefed on Russian bounties

Didn’t he think Finland was part of Russia?

I stopped reading after I saw press secretary claims... because it's pointless as the current press secretary said she'd never lie and yet she has.

I believe so according to John boltons book. I mean he's not the most informed man on the planet in any way shape or form. He's wilfully ignorant of even basic things of his own country. Also on the PDBs there were claims they were hundreds of pages daily when apparently they are relatively brief. But even if they were voluminous documents, surely it's expected presidents read them. It's part of the job.

I think this week with the Russian story and how it's already playing veterans in ads that were released by them, this may have been one of the biggest **** ups as president.

Tell me how

Cody montana wrote: »

White House press secretary claims Donald Trump 'does read and he's the most informed man on planet Earth when it comes to the threats we face' - after he DENIED being briefed on Russian bounties

Didn’t he think Finland was part of Russia?

So much of what he says and does is so definitively in contradiction to what he says that its incredible to see it happening in front of our eyes.

All his statements about 'he knows more than anyone else', 'people are astounded at how well he grasps information', 'he hires the best people'.

All absolute, categorical bullsh*t!

Anyone left defending him is primarily doing so out of hatred for those that don't. That hatred is more motivating than seeing people being vindicated for saying he would be a disaster. I personally didn't think it would get this bad in that the White House staff would be so impossibly able to keep him under control. I felt he'd be capable of all this, but not that it would happen so clearly.

Itssoeasy

Water John wrote: »

Well, its just he's living in the wrong time, Finland was in the 19thC.

Living in the wrong time seems be a theme with trump. I'm glad I don't live in America, because while Ireland certainly has its problems on the whole I don't think we are as on edge as America seems to be at times.

I mean him talking about heritage when talking about the confederacy for example is to me just tone deaf. The confederacy is a part of America history but I don't think Americans want their heritage to be about people who purposely fought the legitimate government of the United States because of warped views on race and their right to enslave one. And the confederacy lost bigly which surely can't be something trump likes.

Carfacemandog

Follow on from the last thread (saw it was closed when I hit 'post)...

mayomaffia wrote: »

In January he had done nothing for his support base. Farmers were losing out due to China, the rust belt was continuing to lose jobs, oil was at a record low.
Now his base have a reason to vote. They are under attack by the democrats, media and antifa, cities are been burned, statues destroyed and the flag stamped on, anarchy reigns.

In January, Trumps aggregates job approval was -10. By April, it had risen to -4.1. Today, it is -16, the worst it has been since January 2018.

Worse again, pretty much all his attempts to smear his opponent have had no real impact nor stuck, and in some cases (Ukraine) made things worse for Trump, if anyone.

Added to that, these protests have proven to be doing very little at all in terms of growing his voter base - over the course of them he has gone from the odds on favourite to 13/8 outsider at the bookies, and June saw the steepest decline in his approval ratings of any month in his presidency.

The likes of the US Soccer and the NFL that previously bent the knee (pardon the pun) have unequivocally done a u turn and have apologised for not siding with the protesters sooner. NASCAR, which you would think would be the last place to turn their back on truno and his crowd, have done just that. Mississippi on Sunday elected to remove the confederate logo from their state flag. Social media companies are beginning to seriously call out his nonsense, and one even banned him the other day. Advertisers are pulling funding from platforms allowing hate speech go unchecked as Trump calls for armed uprisings and thanks 'White power' statements.

This might explain why he is polling so awfully right now too. In several 'purple' states that tilted in his favour in 2016 by razor thin margins, he is down heavily - sometimes by double digits to Biden. Michigan (by 10.7 points), Pennsylvania (by 8), Wisconsin (by 8.1), Florida (7.3), and Ohio by a less extravagant 2.7%. Iowa is essentially tied, with Biden up 0.1%

Worse again, Trump is even losing in several 'safe' red states at this point:
- Arizona (Biden is up 4.8%, 1996 was the only time they went democrat in the 8 elections since 1980)
- North Carolina (2.7%, 2008 was only time time since 1980 they voted democrat)
- Georgia (1.7%, 1992 is the only time they went democrat since 1980)

And there's the elephant in the room that Trump is up by just 0.2% in Texas of all places, who have not once voted democrat since 1980. If a Republican loses Texas they pretty much lose the election by default (same with a Democrat losing California), meaning this is going to be a major headache for his campaign unless something changes rapidly and will divert a lot of funds and effort that they really shouldn't infd themselves needing to in Texas.

And all four of those states are covid hot spots, accounting yesterday for example for 29.5% of all new cases in the US (13,00P of 44,000) the figures seem to show that they do care quite a bit about his horrific covid response).

On top of all this, Trump is not looking remotely like winning a single state that he lost in 2016. Some that he won by huge numbers like 19% in Missouri, he now leads by just 2.4% - that state also looks to be on thea pretty big upswing in terms of covid cases.

Now all this is with the caveat that there is a long 4 months to go, but right now it's looking very grim for Trump and it's very hard to see what could turn it around. The Dow having its best quarter in over 30 years did absolutely nothing to stop this monumental drop across the board for him, for example.

But it's not all covid and protests, it's also largely because Trump - a wild card with no track record (which was somehow sold as a bonus) in 2016 - has been an unmitigated disaster the likes of which, at this point, it may well be fair to see the US has never seen before and that seems to increasingly be getting through to the less crazy of long time republican voters and those who "lent" a vote I n2016 as independents or people who just hated Clinton (who wasn't a very likeable candidate herself, to be mild about it).

Headshot

It's official the EU have banned Americans traveling to the EU

Yet another example of Trump winning so much......

con747

Comical Ali had more credence

eire4

Water John wrote: »

Well, its just he's living in the wrong time, Finland was in the 19thC.

They achieved their independence from the Russian yoke in 1917.

eire4

Headshot wrote: »

It's official the EU have banned Americans traveling to the EU

Yet another example of Trump winning so much......

The EU really had no choice when it came to the US and indeed Brazil with the virus still such a problem in those countries and their governments refusing to deal with it in any kind of serious manner.

aloyisious

Pixelburp:America First in action it seems: the US has bought 90% of world supplies of a key CoVid treatment drug, leaving the rest of the world lacking for the next 3 months. Only one company holds the patent (insert Big Pharma rant here). Says a lot IMO when an institution supposedly meant to make sober, considered actions behaves like a panicky hoarder buying up all the loo roll.


That securing of supplies in advance of the estimated Covid-19 r-surge late this year would be in line with what Dr's Fauci and Redfield advised when it comes to the winter season, only it's not masks and flu-jabs. It's a damage-prevention measure while there is no definite covid-19 anti-viral drug in existence. Possibly the only time that some-one in the Admin [maybe Alex Azar] has taken the doctor's advice [aside from the use of masks, or face-coverings if you're Pence].

Actually a few hours ago, CNN mentioned that a fund of $1 Billion set aside to buy equipment to fight the virus had not yet been touched. Maybe it has been now.

AMKC

Headshot wrote: »

It's official the EU have banned Americans traveling to the EU

Yet another example of Trump winning so much......

Good. I seen it on the BBC news. That alone is a huge embaressment to the Trump administration and to Trump and says a lot about there lack of strategy to tackle the Coronavirus. They could have been in a better position by now had they had a proper strategy but they did not. They stayed in denial for months and that will cost them big time. It does unfortunately mean it has cost lives to as well do which is very sad.

Can't really criticise them for putting themselves first and buying up supplies. Have a feeling it'll turn out to be a bit of a waste of money which is what I'd be concerned about.

sid waddell

Trump has retweeted Brigitte Gabriel, who is the founder and leader of a group called "ACT! For America", which is viciously anti-Muslim and classed by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a hate group.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/act-america

ACT for America is listed as an anti-Muslim hate group because it pushes wild anti-Muslim conspiracy theories, denigrates American Muslims and deliberately conflates mainstream and radical Islam.

For instance, Gabriel has said that practicing Muslims “cannot be loyal citizens of the United States.” In a 2011 appearance on CNN, Gabriel said, “America has been infiltrated on all levels by radicals who wish to harm America. They have infiltrated us at the CIA, at the FBI, at the Pentagon, at the State Department. They're being radicalized in radical mosques, in our cities and communities within the United States."

ACT also ran an online database allegedly for law enforcement called the Thin Blue Line. This McCarthyite project lists the names and addresses of prominent Muslim American leaders and Muslim Student Association (MSA) chapters alongside individuals who have been arrested on terrorism charges, referring to the MSAs as “radical organizations” and the individuals as “persons of interest.”

Key takeaways
ACT members and chapters routinely espouse racist views. ACT’s “March Against Shariah” rallies on June 10, 2017 attracted a host of extremists including neo-Nazi Billy Roper .
Brigitte Gabriel first created the organization in 2004 as American Congress for Truth. ACT for America has been an SPLC designated hate group since 2015, though Gabriel has a long history of degrading Muslims.
One of ACT’s main tactics is pushing anti-Muslim legislation. They have successfully done so with “ anti-Sharia ” bills and Andy’s Law legislation.

Tchaikovsky

Trump's anti-Muslim invective would almost make you feel nostalgic!

aloyisious

sid waddell wrote: »

Trump has retweeted Brigitte Gabriel, who is the founder and leader of a group called "ACT! For America", which is viciously anti-Muslim and classed by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a hate group.

Her personal history as a Lebanese-born Maronite Christian who moved to the US circa 1980 laid out her path of disliking Muslims after the civil war there. She reportedly was wounded there before the IDF entered the war & saved her life. Pat [God put Trump in the White House] Robertson is one of her US Christian friends. The link is also with Mike Pence via the Evangelists.

robinph

pixelburp wrote: »

America First in action it seems: the US has bought 90% of world supplies of a key CoVid treatment drug, leaving the rest of the world lacking for the next 3 months. Only one company holds the patent (insert Big Pharma rant here). Says a lot IMO when an institution supposedly meant to make sober, considered actions behaves like a panicky hoarder buying up all the loo roll.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/30/us-buys-up-world-stock-of-key-covid-19-drug

This would seem like a foolish move by the drug company if nothing else. Why piss off the entire rest of the planet whose governments you need to uphold your drug patents for you in preventing local drug companies from making copies of your drugs?

If the drug ends up being all that we have for the next X months in the treatment of Covid and the US continues to be given first claim on all the drugs produced because they have the biggest wallet, that company will likely find their international market in everything suddenly disappears as governments around the world rip up any patent claims and tell them to get stuffed as they licence their own manufacturers to make the stuff instead.

pixelburp

AMKC wrote: »

Good. I seen it on the BBC news. That alone is a huge embaressment to the Trump administration and to Trump and says a lot about there lack of strategy to tackle the Coronavirus. They could have been in a better position by now had they had a proper strategy but they did not. They stayed in denial for months and that will cost them big time. It does unfortunately mean it has cost lives to as well do which is very sad.

IIRC, the decision is not binding with the nation states themselves, rather a guide. Suppose it depends on each country's desire to maintain an air bridge with the US. Presumably for Ireland it's all about tourism.

Totally separate, off topic conversation but this non binding decision does make me wonder if CoVid might hasten the federalisation of the EU. A lot of gaps were shown once things kicked off, future coordination feels inevitable as well as necessary.

As to America one wonders if the reverse conversation might occur: Trump's flailing incompetence might - medium term - play into a "State'ist" narrative that Washington is either useless or a hindrance in a crisis. Any positives in the handling of CoVid would, IMO, go to local authorities or Governors.

Quin_Dub

pixelburp wrote: »

IIRC, the decision is not binding with the nation states themselves, rather a guide. Suppose it depends on each country's desire to maintain an air bridge with the US. Presumably for Ireland it's all about tourism.

Totally separate, off topic conversation but this non binding decision does make me wonder if CoVid might hasten the federalisation of the EU. A lot of gaps were shown once things kicked off, future coordination feels inevitable as well as necessary.

As to America one wonders if the reverse conversation might occur: Trump's flailing incompetence might - medium term - play into a "State'ist" narrative that Washington is either useless or a hindrance in a crisis. Any positives in the handling of CoVid would, IMO, go to local authorities or Governors.

Just on that - Ireland is excluded from this because of the open border to the UK.

The UK declined the opportunity to participate (Yeay Brexit!!) and because of the open border and the fact that we aren't Schengen , we basically will have to make our own rule.

But if UK allow the US or any other "hot zone" , then not sure how we stop the tourists coming in via Belfast.

banie01

pixelburp wrote: »

America First in action it seems: the US has bought 90% of world supplies of a key CoVid treatment drug, leaving the rest of the world lacking for the next 3 months. Only one company holds the patent (insert Big Pharma rant here). Says a lot IMO when an institution supposedly meant to make sober, considered actions behaves like a panicky hoarder buying up all the loo roll.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/30/us-buys-up-world-stock-of-key-covid-19-drug

Given Remdesivir's ridiculous cost considering its actual input costs and it's honestly very poor actual improvement in outcomes.
It has been shown to shorten hospital stay but not to definitely improve patient outcomes, let them have it.

The study data available to date shows that cheap and cheerful dexamethasone reduces mortality and improves outcomes at a tiny fraction of the cost.

I honestly think there is a notion that of the Trump Admin can convince the US that spending money = good action and quality outcomes, that they are "winning".

pixelburp

Maybe this already come up around the time of its posting, but here's a revealing anecdote from Trump's "White Power" tweet: it took 3 hours to remove because ... he was golfing and had put his phone down, so the White House couldn't reach him. 3 hours out of communication - what if there was a genuine emergency? Sounds like not even the Secret Service were about to pass on the message?

If nothing else it confirms that he is indeed author of this stream of consciousness - and that nobody else in the White House has access to his account. Now, let's be fair, maybe the same is true of many other politicians' Twitter accounts. But I doubt it, and I also imagine during their tenure in office they share login details with their aides & PR flunkeys. Most real politicians are usually too busy to tweet their every brain fart.

Though on that point, the article suggests the aides were thrown under the bus, claiming Trump merely posted what was given to him; again, that ends up making Trump look less the the man of action and authority his supporters would otherwise claim. More the gormless schlub who posted a White Power video 'cos he was told to.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-s-white-power-retweet-set-five-alarm-fire-white-n1232495

The video remained on the president's Twitter page, where he has 82 million followers, for more than three hours because White House officials couldn't reach him to ask him to delete it, the two officials said. The president was at his golf club in Virginia and had put his phone down, the officials said.

Aides also tried unsuccessfully to reach deputy chief of staff Dan Scavino to ask him to delete the retweet, officials said. Sen. Tim Scott, R-S.C., added to the urgency when he called the tweet "indefensible" and demanded that the president take it down during an interview on CNN, the officials said.

Once officials were able to reach the president, he agreed to delete it, they said.

greenfield21

robinph wrote: »

This would seem like a foolish move by the drug company if nothing else. Why piss off the entire rest of the planet whose governments you need to uphold your drug patents for you in preventing local drug companies from making copies of your drugs?

If the drug ends up being all that we have for the next X months in the treatment of Covid and the US continues to be given first claim on all the drugs produced because they have the biggest wallet, that company will likely find their international market in everything suddenly disappears as governments around the world rip up any patent claims and tell them to get stuffed as they licence their own manufacturers to make the stuff instead.

Because the US is the most profitable market for pharma companies, I doubt they even care about Europe or any other country. As much as I'd like to see other countries invoke emergency act to make drugs. It's unlikely as they know they are basically getting all the benefit and no of the costs from these us pharma companies. The long term implications could be huge.

abff

I've read elsewhere that it took 3 hours or thereabouts to convince Trump to take down the tweet. That sounds a lot more plausible than him being uncontactable for 3 hours.

Cody montana

He’s having a bit of a meltdown on twitter.

Something big is coming.

Timberrrrrrrr

Cody montana wrote: »

He’s having a bit of a meltdown on twitter.

Something big is coming.

He's claiming the Russian bounty story is a hoax, hasn't it been proven he was shown this in the morning briefings?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1278284552679624705?s=19

seamus

abff wrote: »

I've read elsewhere that it took 3 hours or thereabouts to convince Trump to take down the tweet. That sounds a lot more plausible than him being uncontactable for 3 hours.

There is no way he was uncontactable for 3 hours. It's not even possible for the US president to fart without someone else hearing it. He is surrounded by aides and security on a constant basis. Even if he was in bed asleep, there is someone standing outside the door who can wake him if necessary.

Public officials in any country are not you and I. They do not put their phone down and go off on a solo jaunt where nobody knows where they are or how to contact them.

This is especially the case for the US, where even his official plane has its own communications satellites. There is literally nowhere on the planet he can be "uncontactable".

StringerBell

I suppose in his mind, and all he has around him going even further to the right is probably all he thinks he can do for the election. Is there anyone on the far right who he wasn't right wing enough for last time round though?

His continued incompetence is always amusing but hopefully will be coming to an end soon.

Him having meltdowns on twitter doesn't really do much for me anymore it's just remixes of his greatest hits generally. He's becoming boring actually in that regard.

ShatterAlan

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I stopped reading after I saw press secretary claims... because it's pointless as the current press secretary said she'd never lie and yet she has.

I believe so according to John boltons book. I mean he's not the most informed man on the planet in any way shape or form. He's wilfully ignorant of even basic things of his own country. Also on the PDBs there were claims they were hundreds of pages daily when apparently they are relatively brief. But even if they were voluminous documents, surely it's expected presidents read them. It's part of the job.

I think this week with the Russian story and how it's already playing veterans in ads that were released by them, this may have been one of the biggest **** ups as president.

It's pointless even talking to McEnany. Listening to her being interviewed is a car-crash. She is a compulsive liar. Trump will tell a blatant demonstrable lie and she will say "The President has never lied to the American people"

nthclare

I know but in fairness I don't like what the Democrats have to offer either.
Any suggestions ?

weisses

nthclare wrote: »

I know but in fairness I don't like what the Democrats have to offer either.
Any suggestions ?

What specifically don't you like about what democrats have to offer ?

robinph

greenfield21 wrote: »

Because the US is the most profitable market for pharma companies, I doubt they even care about Europe or any other country. As much as I'd like to see other countries invoke emergency act to make drugs. It's unlikely as they know they are basically getting all the benefit and no of the costs from these us pharma companies. The long term implications could be huge.

They might be getting the best return on their investments per patient by charging the US health insurers vastly inflated costs, but I would think a market of 7 billion people paying a fraction of the price would be more valuable than one of 350 million who are overcharged. There is only so much money they can gouge out of that 350 million people.

Leroy42

nthclare wrote: »

I know but in fairness I don't like what the Democrats have to offer either.
Any suggestions ?

If you are a voter you face a stark choice.

Vote back in the man that has lied, played massive amount of golf, used his position to enrich himself and his family, failed to protect soldiers, failed to deliver on his election promises.

Or vote for the Democrats, for which you are no so sure.

It would be great if there was another option, but there isn't. So the options are Vote Trump, Vote Biden or don't vote all.

valoren

Carl Bernstein reporting that, during a phone call, he called Merkel stupid and in the pocket of the Russians. The psychological projection is telling.

Quin_Dub

valoren wrote: »

Carl Bernstein reporting that, during a phone call, he called Merkel stupid and in the pocket of the Russians. The psychological projection is telling.

That would be Dr. Merkel - PhD in Chemistry.

Quin_Dub

Just played around a bit on the RCP Site looking at the Electoral College

The 1st Image is the current state of play as seen by RCP , they have Biden with 222 EC votes in the bag so only needing ~50 to win. Compared to Trump only have 125 locked in.



You can make changes to it yourself , so I adjusted and any State where either candidate had a lead greater than the current polling margin of error I moved to "leaning" (the paler colour) , the grey ones are where the lead is inside the MOE which includes Texas - which is just crazy.

Doing that , shows Biden with a pretty decisive victory right now.

StringerBell

That's why I'm becoming optimistic about the election. There are so many paths to victory for Biden now regulating Trump back to trying to hit that inside straight again to pull it out of the bag.

Nody

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Just played around a bit on the RCP Site looking at the Electoral College

Is not the problem (and reason for Gerrymandering) that it's not only about the votes but where the votes are thrown as well? I.e. minimize the vote weight by grouping the "bad" once in one area to minimize their overall weight? As in while let's take Arizona may lean Biden but with Gerrymandering the actual vote while Biden overall state wide the electoral college setup ensures it goes Trump instead.

Penn

https://twitter.com/brett_mcgurk/status/1278340731975856128?s=20

So the White House are now saying the Russia Bounty story was in the daily brief, but the person reading the brief to Trump didn't read it, but it was still serious enough that the US told their allies. So Trump didn't actually know about it even though everyone else did and it was in the briefing but someone decided not to read that part to him.

Which also means that if you go with the idea Trump didn't know about it but everyone else did, nobody thought to bring it up when Trump was trying to get Russia back into the G7, or any time Trump spoke with Putin afterwards. Nobody thought "... Wasn't the bounty thing in his briefing...?"

Dillonb3

Leroy42 wrote: »

If you are a voter you face a stark choice.

Vote back in the man that has lied, played massive amount of golf, used his position to enrich himself and his family, failed to protect soldiers, failed to deliver on his election promises.

Or vote for the Democrats, for which you are no so sure.

It would be great if there was another option, but there isn't. So the options are Vote Trump, Vote Biden or don't vote all.

You can throw in the Supreme Court judges as well. Next 2 likely justices to retire are both liberal leaning ones and Trump/McConnell will definitely push for conservative ones to lock it down for years to come

Leroy42

Penn wrote: »

https://twitter.com/brett_mcgurk/status/1278340731975856128?s=20

So the White House are now saying the Russia Bounty story was in the daily brief, but the person reading the brief to Trump didn't read it, but it was still serious enough that the US told their allies. So Trump didn't actually know about it even though everyone else did and it was in the briefing but someone decided not to read that part to him.

Which also means that if you go with the idea Trump didn't know about it but everyone else did, nobody thought to bring it up when Trump was trying to get Russia back into the G7, or any time Trump spoke with Putin afterwards. Nobody thought "... Wasn't the bounty thing in his briefing...?"

And of course if true, why is Trump not freaking out about it? WHy is he hitting out at the media when clearly the media had the crux of the story correct. That person (who reads the brief) needs to be fired for a start.

Second, why hasn't Trump, now that he finally knows, been out to publicly condemn Russia over this. Instead we get silence. Seems he is more interested in getting out his version(s) of what happened then looking to pull Russia to tasks over this.

I said from the start, when and if Trump knew is the wrong point to talk about. He will lie, and his people will lie, and do so regardless of what question is ther.

The real story is what to do about it now that it is known about. What is Trump going to do. Will he call for increased sanctions? Will be row back on his calls for G8? Will be demand answers and assurances from Putin?

check_six

Leroy42 wrote: »

The real story is what to do about it now that it is known about. What is Trump going to do. Will he call for increased sanctions? Will be row back on his calls for G8? Will be demand answers and assurances from Putin?

Couldn't agree more. So he didn't know THEN because he cannot read? Ok, that's history.

He knows NOW.
We all know he knows now.
What is he going to do about it?

Should be hounded on this point.

Itssoeasy

Penn wrote: »

https://twitter.com/brett_mcgurk/status/1278340731975856128?s=20

So the White House are now saying the Russia Bounty story was in the daily brief, but the person reading the brief to Trump didn't read it, but it was still serious enough that the US told their allies. So Trump didn't actually know about it even though everyone else did and it was in the briefing but someone decided not to read that part to him.

Which also means that if you go with the idea Trump didn't know about it but everyone else did, nobody thought to bring it up when Trump was trying to get Russia back into the G7, or any time Trump spoke with Putin afterwards. Nobody thought "... Wasn't the bounty thing in his briefing...?"

Oh so the WH are saying it's the briefers fault then ? Ah well that's that settled then(sarcasm klaxon) Ffs, I mean the question is why wasn't the Russian part of that PDB read to him ? It's serious stuff contained in it, it's not the pick and mix.

I really wonder if the whole reason he is so vehemently opposed to the world seeing his tax returns isn't that it will expose him as not being as successful or as rich as he claims, but the russian connection is glaring. I mean one or both of the sons have said on the record they got money from Russia.

Quin_Dub

Nody wrote: »

Is not the problem (and reason for Gerrymandering) that it's not only about the votes but where the votes are thrown as well? I.e. minimize the vote weight by grouping the "bad" once in one area to minimize their overall weight? As in while let's take Arizona may lean Biden but with Gerrymandering the actual vote while Biden overall state wide the electoral college setup ensures it goes Trump instead.

Gerrymandering is far less of a problem at the State level - regardless of where you section off the voters to they still all roll up and count overall. I don't believe that any of the states run a "mini electoral college" , they are all just FPTP total count to the best of my knowledge.

It's a huge issue at the Congressional House and State-house level though.

The risk in National Elections is simply voter suppression.

StringerBell

Dillonb3 wrote: »

You can throw in the Supreme Court judges as well. Next 2 likely justices to retire are both liberal leaning ones and Trump/McConnell will definitely push for conservative ones to lock it down for years to come

This is what I think Trump should be basing his re-election campaign on. It's pretty much all.he has anyway, he may even pull back some of the more moderate but still traditional conservatives into the fold, to suffer him for another 4 years to guarantee a future they would like to see with the SC being completely conservative for at least a generation.

Can't believe he hasn't been pushing that angle and instead is retweeting **** with people shouting white power and anti Muslim groups, well I can, but still.

briany

One thing you have to say about the Trump presidency is that it looks like he's made the common-or-garden type of POTUS look really good in the eyes of the average voter (if polls are to be believed), despite the fact that the old style of POTUS was what American people were clamouring to get rid of with Trump on the Republican side, and Bernie on the Democratic side. People who promised to overhaul the whole damn system.

So a quietly sad outcome of a one-term Trump presidency will be that the people will, for a term at least, probably sit down and gratefully accept whatever president they're offered, pretty much. Corruption will be largely not spoken of if it is backed with the comforting words of a traditional-style POTUS.

Trump may go away, but what gave rise to Trump will spew forth again at some point in the future if it is not addressed. If you defeat Trump but not Trumpism, it couldn't come as much surprise when this does come to pass.

Igotadose

briany wrote: »

If you defeat Trump but not Trumpism, it couldn't come as much surprise when this does come to pass.

The definition of Trumpism is key. America is in a bad place intellectually because of abject failure of its political and educational systems, both supported fully by Democrats, Republicans, liberals and conservatives. I don't know how it can be fixed, frankly. It never was about Trump or due to Trump. Trump's just a con, not terribly bright, with a bad case of NPD who felt insulted at the WH Correspondents dinner a number of years ago and finally listened to his tGOP buddies about running for POTUS.

Next time around, they'll have a better candidate, I think that Senator Cotten from Arkansas would be a smoother version of Trump and wouldn't be surprised at all to see him running in 2024.

But, it's America that's the problem. The politicians are what the country is becoming.

Muahahaha

Im presuming that the leak to the NYT about the Russian bounties in Afghanistan came from John Bolton, it might even have been a full chapter in his book but he wasnt allowed publish it under national security rules. Would wonder what other scandals from the Oval Office werent allowed to be published in his book but now will instead be leaked to the national media.

Rjd2

Igotadose wrote: »

The definition of Trumpism is key. America is in a bad place intellectually because of abject failure of its political and educational systems, both supported fully by Democrats, Republicans, liberals and conservatives. I don't know how it can be fixed, frankly. It never was about Trump or due to Trump. Trump's just a con, not terribly bright, with a bad case of NPD who felt insulted at the WH Correspondents dinner a number of years ago and finally listened to his tGOP buddies about running for POTUS.

Next time around, they'll have a better candidate, I think that Senator Cotten from Arkansas would be a smoother version of Trump and wouldn't be surprised at all to see him running in 2024.

But, it's America that's the problem. The politicians are what the country is becoming.

Cotton will run and fail thankfully. An incredibly bland speaker.

Hawley will probably be the Trumper choice, telegenic, articulate and I can see the Tucker element of the party lining up behind him.