Can we have some fcuking control on the airports from high risk countries please?

gozunda

faceman wrote: »

What do you think might happen to a country that heavily relies on imports and supply chains if we borrow the NZ model? Do you think all the food on our shelves is locally produced?

You might say mandatory quarantine doesn’t effect freight. Well, we know it does. How? New Zealand. Despite freight being permitted, New Zealand still has issues with imports. Luckily they aren’t reliant on food imports (other than wine!) so it’s not so big an issue. They have their own oil and mineral source and a massive agriculture and horticulture industry.

Turn that lens on Ireland and what do you think might happen?

How many New Zealander’s have work, family or other connections with neighbouring countries? I imagine it’s probably not as comparable as a country like Ireland or any other country in the EU. Afternoon New Zealand is 2500 miles from its nearest neighbour. I can’t imagine there are many people who go off on a shopping trip or hen weekend to New Zealand for a couple of days.

New Zealand’s quarantine policy also curtails FDI, an industry Ireland is heavily reliant on.

New Zealand’s quarantine policy also curtails much essential travel, despite what the media might tell you. Closing the border doesn’t mean essential trips continue as normal.

Economically, NZ is expected to be one of the worst hit countries from the crisis. This has been covered extensively in business media.

And again, without flogging the dead horse, New Zealand doesn’t have to deal with the sensitive of the NI border and the complex relationship with the U.K. Even if all 3 governments were aligned, which they’re not, we can’t ignore the sensitivities of that pandemic or not.

Finally even Tony Holohan and Philip Nolan have said a zero covid strategy for Ireland is unlikely to work.

Yup that was well covered in the interview on New Zealand I listened to this morning. Imports haven't stopped and they seem to be doing just fine. And yes New Zealand is heavily dependent on imports and migrant labour. Travel from Australia - one of the most popular airline destinations is currently fully restricted. And yes New Zealander’s do have significant work, family or other connections with there and other countries in the region.

But yeah there's a will there's a way. Currently we have the absolutely crazy situation where the entire country is locked down except for those you want to fly via somewhere to / from Brazil or Fuerteventura etc etc. If we can reduce our level of restrictions then that's good. Managing our borders properly is essential to that.

I could give a flying fuk if we have people who want go off on a 'shopping trip or hen weekend for a couple of days'. They can stay where they are. Thanks all the same

mohawk

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

This won't work.

No way we have the resources to bring and watch 1000s of people in hotels each week.

Not a chance.

Another disaster in the making.

Would it not put people off from travelling to Ireland unless they really have to.

lawrencesummers

ebbsy wrote: »

Well I know Limerick is shagged already, as my son got it down in LIT along with all his housemates.

Are colleges not meant to be closed and learning online???

lawrencesummers

mohawk wrote: »

Would it not put people off from travelling to Ireland unless they really have to.

It would.

Of the many journeys I know of people taking abroad since last March none were for essential reasons.

I’m sure some people are nuclear reactors technicians, or medical personal and actually need to travel, but heading to Spain to your own house or buying a car in Leeds are not essential reasons for travel and can be eliminated.

hahashake

faceman wrote: »

What do you think might happen to a country that heavily relies on imports and supply chains if we borrow the NZ model? Do you think all the food on our shelves is locally produced?

You might say mandatory quarantine doesn’t effect freight. Well, we know it does. How? New Zealand. Despite freight being permitted, New Zealand still has issues with imports. Luckily they aren’t reliant on food imports (other than wine!) so it’s not so big an issue. They have their own oil and mineral source and a massive agriculture and horticulture industry.

Turn that lens on Ireland and what do you think might happen?

How many New Zealander’s have work, family or other connections with neighbouring countries? I imagine it’s probably not as comparable as a country like Ireland or any other country in the EU. Afternoon New Zealand is 2500 miles from its nearest neighbour. I can’t imagine there are many people who go off on a shopping trip or hen weekend to New Zealand for a couple of days.

New Zealand’s quarantine policy also curtails FDI, an industry Ireland is heavily reliant on.

New Zealand’s quarantine policy also curtails much essential travel, despite what the media might tell you. Closing the border doesn’t mean essential trips continue as normal.

Economically, NZ is expected to be one of the worst hit countries from the crisis. This has been covered extensively in business media.

And again, without flogging the dead horse, New Zealand doesn’t have to deal with the sensitive of the NI border and the complex relationship with the U.K. Even if all 3 governments were aligned, which they’re not, we can’t ignore the sensitivities of that pandemic or not.

Finally even Tony Holohan and Philip Nolan have said a zero covid strategy for Ireland is unlikely to work.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-16/new-zealand-economy-surges-out-of-recession-amid-spending-spree

New Zealand Economy Surges Out of Recession In V-Shaped Recovery

Gross domestic product surged 14% from the second quarter, when it contracted a revised 11%, Statistics New Zealand said Thursday in Wellington. Economists forecast a 12.9% gain. From a year earlier, the economy grew 0.4%, confounding the consensus forecast for a 1.8% decline.

lawrencesummers

You would have to think that the cost of closing your boarders would be big.

But not as big as keeping them open and shutting down swathes of the economy while paying social welfare money to hundreds of thousands of people weekly.

Take Tourism.
Open your boarders and it’s shut down during restrictions effectively killing foreign tourism because of the unpredictability of restrictions
Close your boarders and it’s shut down to foreign visitors, but your internal tourism can flourish

Importing could grind to a halt, exporting could continue but demand for local products will replace imports which also boosts the economy.

This could be the most economically beneficial short term thing NZ does.

Not every facet of the economy will benefit. I’m sure NZ rely somewhat on importing labour.



It begs the question would Ireland be better off economically with its current open boarders or closed ones.

faceman

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It begs the question would Ireland be better off economically with its current open boarders or closed ones.

Secondary school economics class called and wants a word...

saabsaab

faceman wrote: »

Secondary school economics class called and wants a word...

The word is 'lockdown'


What are you looking for a red carpet for new variants?

dartboardio

I've been told the Gardai can fine you if you go to the airport to catch a flight for a non essential purpose, but they cannot turn you back/refuse you to get on the flight, is this true?

To be honest, I'll believe it when I see it too... have travelled abroad 4 times since July , and not once was I stopped or asked where/why I was travelling, not once did we get stopped by a checkpoint (travelled via public transport)

I don't see it happening this time either, flying on Monday. Seems to be a big media deterrent to stop people coming to the airport, which will work I suppose.

IMO,it's perfectly safe to travel if you have a negative test directly before, and when you return, although I'll head off for a few months to avoid this nonsense. I will of course be tested before I go, and I work online so can do my work from abroad.

lawrencesummers

faceman wrote: »

Secondary school economics class called and wants a word...

Economics is not on the post primary curriculum.

mickdw

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Economics is not on the post primary curriculum.

Reduce flights down to 1 or 2 plane loads london to dublin daily.
Anybody genuinely needing to fly can make the connection in london.
300 to 400 people daily flying in.
14 day quarantine at own cost. Gov should be able to arrange that at 1500 euro or so.
If you dont wish to do that, you dont come or you go back on return flight to london.
Who really needs to come in - 1500 meat factory workers - fair enough. You need them 1st feb - get them in quarantine in Ireland 14 days before and business pays for it or else they dont come in. Allow direct charter flight if quarantine rules are being followed.
Whats the point in beating this if another mad strain is allowed walk in from brazil.

Danno

There is a notable subliminal train of thought running through some of the responses here:

* When the lockdowns are lifted its because cases numbers are very low - so international travel has nothing to do with it, ergo it's Paddy on the booze spreading it the moment he gets a chance post lifting of said restrictions.

What these types don't realise is that if we eliminate community transmission then nobody has the virus to give it to anyone else.

Introduce an infected person via international travel and you re-introduce community transmission once again and cases explode.

This is completely demonstrable via proven facts:

Before Lockdown 2; over 60% of cases were traceable to travel from Spain ALONE.

Before Lockdown 3; over 60% of cases were traceable to travel from UK.

If one infected person from Brazil brings that variant here and it becomes the dominant strain then all cases from there forth are the cause of travel to Brazil.

The phrase "community transmission" is therefore SOLELY caused by international travel. Therefore, before even attempting to clean up the mess of the virus within Ireland, you stop any risk of importing another variant. With borders closed we can really chase down and clear out any residual virus in Ireland and stay on top of it.

Anything else short of this is futile, a waste of time and downright disingenuous to the Irish people.

If the powers that be have no will in keeping the SA and the Brazilian variant out because of "meh, freedom of movement" then restore that human right to the locals and lift level 5 with immediate effect so "equality" can prevail as they are so adamant in respecting.

gozunda

dartboardio wrote: »

I've been told the Gardai can fine you if you go to the airport to catch a flight for a non essential purpose, but they cannot turn you back/refuse you to get on the flight, is this true?

To be honest, I'll believe it when I see it too... have travelled abroad 4 times since July , and not once was I stopped or asked where/why I was travelling, not once did we get stopped by a checkpoint (travelled via public transport)

I don't see it happening this time either, flying on Monday. Seems to be a big media deterrent to stop people coming to the airport, which will work I suppose.

IMO,it's perfectly safe to travel if you have a negative test directly before, and when you return, although I'll head off for a few months to avoid this nonsense. I will of course be tested before I go, and I work online so can do my work from abroad.

If you don't mind me asking why so many flights in the middle of pandemic if you can work from home? And especially now with new more contagious strains?

There's been several cases of people going down with covid despite testing. See the recent case in above mentioned New Zealand.
The woman had travelled in Spain and the Netherlands and arrived in New Zealand from London around the turn of the year. Quarantined. Tested and later developed covid. South African strain afaik

ginoginelli

Danno wrote: »

There is a notable subliminal train of thought running through some of the responses here:

* When the lockdowns are lifted its because cases numbers are very low - so international travel has nothing to do with it, ergo it's Paddy on the booze spreading it the moment he gets a chance post lifting of said restrictions.

What these types don't realise is that if we eliminate community transmission then nobody has the virus to give it to anyone else.

Introduce an infected person via international travel and you re-introduce community transmission once again and cases explode.

This is completely demonstrable via proven facts:

Before Lockdown 2; over 60% of cases were traceable to travel from Spain ALONE.

Before Lockdown 3; over 60% of cases were traceable to travel from UK.

If one infected person from Brazil brings that variant here and it becomes the dominant strain then all cases from there forth are the cause of travel to Brazil.

The phrase "community transmission" is therefore SOLELY caused by international travel. Therefore, before even attempting to clean up the mess of the virus within Ireland, you stop any risk of importing another variant. With borders closed we can really chase down and clear out any residual virus in Ireland and stay on top of it.

Anything else short of this is futile, a waste of time and downright disingenuous to the Irish people.

If the powers that be have no will in keeping the SA and the Brazilian variant out because of "meh, freedom of movement" then restore that human right to the locals and lift level 5 with immediate effect so "equality" can prevail as they are so adamant in respecting.

Well said.

lawrencesummers

The argument of travel into the north is becoming hollow now that the Uk are imposing quarantine and have travel bans.

I didn’t believe Zero Covid was a viable strategy because of practicality and cost, but now I see it as being possible from a practical point of view and cheaper than the current set up.

We know that people don’t follow the rules, that’s why the cases are high, so the rules need to be stricter and enforced more.

dartboardio

gozunda wrote: »

If you don't mind me asking why so many flights in the middle of pandemic if you can work from home? And especially now with new more contagious strains?

There's been several cases of people going down with covid despite testing. See the recent case in above mentioned New Zealand.
The woman had travelled in Spain and the Netherlands and arrived in New Zealand from London around the turn of the year. Quarantined. Tested and later developed covid. South African strain afaik

Two were holidays and the other was for family reasons,

Well, as I said, I have been abroad 4 times and been tested each time going out and coming back, and not once have I contracted this virus, or passed it to anyone, and I was in areas that were deemed 'high risk' apparently.

Flying next monday because I'd rather move abroad for a few months and work remotely from wherever, than stay in Ireland between rolling lockdowns with a government who don't seem to have any sort of grasp on the situation.

gozunda

dartboardio wrote: »

Two were holidays and the other was for family reasons,

Well, as I said, I have been abroad 4 times and been tested each time going out and coming back, and not once have I contracted this virus, or passed it to anyone, and I was in areas that were deemed 'high risk' apparently.

Flying next monday because I'd rather move abroad for a few months and work remotely from wherever, than stay in Ireland between rolling lockdowns with a government who don't seem to have any sort of grasp on the situation.

Why take the risk? Is it that you don’t believe you'll get it or that you can't pas it on to others?


More importantly why ignore goverment advice. The UK and many other countries have also experienced 'rolling' lockdowns and rising rates of infection. Its not like Ireland stands alone in this.

Danno

Over 40% are planning holidays abroad this year.

https://www.thejournal.ie/summer-holidays-2021-5335620-Jan2021/

There is going to be gnashing of teeth when they're forced to get a negative test before returning, or quarantining without one.

Malcomex

Stating the obvious but what is the point of any partial closures

New variants will still get through and the SA variant is already in the UK

As they they just trying to slow it down or what?

hahashake

I think an interesting question is, if you could go back 12 months with the info we have now and give it to the appropriate decision makers, what would be the differences in policy?

gmisk

RTE news : Cabinet agrees to extend Covid restrictions to 5 March

http://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0126/1192030-ireland-covid-latest/

14 day quarantine for all travellers with no negative test. Plus all travellers from Brazil and South Africa mandatory 14 day quarantine

gmisk

Danno wrote: »

Over 40% are planning holidays abroad this year.

https://www.thejournal.ie/summer-holidays-2021-5335620-Jan2021/

There is going to be gnashing of teeth when they're forced to get a negative test before returning, or quarantining without one.

I would say it will put some people off but not many.
It also is pretty cheap to get one in places like spain seemingly.

I have a voucher for hotel (honeymoon), they have kindly agreed to extend to end of next year, so I might leave it off depending on how things are later in year

lawrencesummers

hahashake wrote: »

I think an interesting question is, if you could go back 12 months with the info we have now and give it to the appropriate decision makers, what would be the differences in policy?

You don’t need to look at the data to know that the government made mistakes.

The glaring one for me is the absence of restrictions on flight from Italy espically after the Ireland Vs Italy rugby match was cancelled but the fans from what was the ground zero in Europe were still allowed to travel.

ginoginelli

Malcomex wrote: »

Stating the obvious but what is the point of any partial closures

New variants will still get through and the SA variant is already in the UK

As they they just trying to slow it down or what?

Optics. They are trying to look like they are tackling the issue.

But they are really not doing anything at all. It's like the passenger arrival form that revolutionary moved online in the summer after similar pressure from nephet and the public.

They think they are being so smart playing us for fools, people are dying ffs. The sheer arrogance of it all.

lawrencesummers

Presumably MM won’t be heading to the White House for paddy’s day.

dartboardio

So they’re saying the new increased Garda checkpoints won’t be until the end of the week or until new legislation comes into play with fines etc.

mickdw

Danno wrote: »

There is a notable subliminal train of thought running through some of the responses here:

* When the lockdowns are lifted its because cases numbers are very low - so international travel has nothing to do with it, ergo it's Paddy on the booze spreading it the moment he gets a chance post lifting of said restrictions.

What these types don't realise is that if we eliminate community transmission then nobody has the virus to give it to anyone else.

Introduce an infected person via international travel and you re-introduce community transmission once again and cases explode.

This is completely demonstrable via proven facts:

Before Lockdown 2; over 60% of cases were traceable to travel from Spain ALONE.

Before Lockdown 3; over 60% of cases were traceable to travel from UK.

If one infected person from Brazil brings that variant here and it becomes the dominant strain then all cases from there forth are the cause of travel to Brazil.

The phrase "community transmission" is therefore SOLELY caused by international travel. Therefore, before even attempting to clean up the mess of the virus within Ireland, you stop any risk of importing another variant. With borders closed we can really chase down and clear out any residual virus in Ireland and stay on top of it.

Anything else short of this is futile, a waste of time and downright disingenuous to the Irish people.

If the powers that be have no will in keeping the SA and the Brazilian variant out because of "meh, freedom of movement" then restore that human right to the locals and lift level 5 with immediate effect so "equality" can prevail as they are so adamant in respecting.

Id have to fully agree with this.
Control flights to tiny numbers. Quarantine all until safe. Simple.
Whats the point in beating the virus in circulation if the government allow another strain in immediately.
The key to managing hotel quarantine is keeping travelling numbers small. So essential travel only. I cant even think who would need to be flying in to be honest. Travelling in for funerals wont be a thing with quarantine so that is ruled out too.
Travelling for business - allow 2 weeks in advance.

Malcomex

mickdw wrote: »

Id have to fully agree with this.
Control flights to tiny numbers. Quarantine all until safe. Simple.
Whats the point in beating the virus in circulation if the government allow another strain in immediately.
The key to managing hotel quarantine is keeping travelling numbers small. So essential travel only. I cant even think who would need to be flying in to be honest. Travelling in for funerals wont be a thing with quarantine so that is ruled out too.
Travelling for business - allow 2 weeks in advance.

Its not as simple as you make it sound

Do you do it forever?

Dyr

mickdw wrote: »

Id have to fully agree with this.
Control flights to tiny numbers. Quarantine all until safe. Simple.
Whats the point in beating the virus in circulation if the government allow another strain in immediately.
The key to managing hotel quarantine is keeping travelling numbers small. So essential travel only. I cant even think who would need to be flying in to be honest. Travelling in for funerals wont be a thing with quarantine so that is ruled out too.
Travelling for business - allow 2 weeks in advance.

Half the country on Covid payments but I'll bet we're still handing out work viasa be the new time.

Sure the Meat barons need them cheap Brazilians and FF will make sure they get them regardless of restrictions

acequion

Does anyone know if quarantine can still be cut short with a negative test after 5 days? I read one account where it appears so but listening to Helen McEntee on the news it's not so clear. Can anyone clarify?