How will schools be able to go back in September?

ldy4mxonucwsq6

jrosen wrote: »

Ireland could also start swabbed for flu.

So will the dept give all students tech equipment (lap top or similar)so they can be educated at home, assuming of course this reduced school week is the way ahead.

Simon Harris said during the week that in addition to the usual recipients all children in aged between two and 12 will be able to get the flu vaccine for free this year.

khalessi

kandr10 wrote: »

Yeah it’s not a bad start but would need to be ramped up significantly to ensure equality of what’s provided, in the event that homeschooling were to go ahead. I mean it in a more casual sense to actual homeschooling though - I guess distance learning or blended learning more so.

Well if it is blended or distance learning, have to make sure students aren't trying to do assignments on mobile phones as some are at the minute. Special discount on laptops maybe and maybe have core lessons in school and art music pe at home possibly. Still all up in the air.

morebabies

I'd love to see the development of an earlier suggestion, an online schooling hub, for all years from national to secondary, making Junior and Leaving Cert entirely possible online, particularly for families with immunocompromised members. At the moment the project and coursework make it very difficult. And places like Homeschool.ie have to specify that all they can offer is comprehensive tuition for Junior and Leaving Cert, with no ability to grade projects, etc. I don't know how the logistics of this would work, would it be a possibility? It'd be a mammoth task to set up.

khalessi

Would be huge and a phenomenal amount of work to be class teaching and distance teaching at the same time, so they need some alteration to the present curriculum

morebabies

khalessi wrote: »

Would be huge and a phenomenal amount of work to be class teaching and distance teaching at the same time, so they need some alteration to the present curriculum

Yes, would one single hub with teachers only assigned to distance learning work, government sponsored? As in one website with different access points for students depending on year, etc.?

khalessi

morebabies wrote: »

Yes, would one single hub with teachers only assigned to distance learning work, government sponsored? As in one website with different access points for students depending on year, etc.?

That sounds very interesting. IF they could set that up, it would be great. They could put a call out to teachers for online work, see what they get.

morebabies

khalessi wrote: »

That sounds very interesting. IF they could set that up, it would be great. They could put a call out to teachers for online work, see what they get.

Even if it wasn't fully up and running until January, parents in need would manage I think.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

kandr10 wrote: »

Yeah it’s not a bad start but would need to be ramped up significantly to ensure equality of what’s provided, in the event that homeschooling were to go ahead. I mean it in a more casual sense to actual homeschooling though - I guess distance learning or blended learning more so.

Just from a financial perspective there's a huge cost saving if you take for example a primary school age child who's parent has decided to home school full time.

Say anyone eligible for back to school grant could use that for alternatives such as device/teaching materials and then anyone who's eligible due to needs gets funding too.

Not having to buy uniforms, books, bags, fees etc would probably amount to about €600 (usual back to school cost) per child give or take so plenty to cover any essentials for homeschooling (that's before the adhoc expenses of sending a child to school).

Homeschooling doesn't require following national curriculum so between online resources, education subscriptions and a preexisting homeschooling network the cost of teaching resources would be minimal.

Homeschooling hubs would be another idea for parents who are interested where a number of same stage children can learn together (outside of traditional schools) like playdates but learning based.

We are only spending about 1.5 - 2 hours a day on curriculum based learning that's been assigned so this leaves plenty of time for the fun stuff and social needs can be met by usual playing, activities, hobbies, sports etc.

I think parents will be more open to looking beyond education in the traditional sense after this experience.

joebloggs32

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Just from a financial perspective there's a huge cost saving if you take for example a primary school age child who's parent has decided to home school full time.

Say anyone eligible for back to school grant could use that for alternatives such as device/teaching materials and then anyone who's eligible due to needs gets funding too.

Not having to buy uniforms, books, bags, fees etc would probably amount to about €600 (usual back to school cost) per child give or take so plenty to cover any essentials for homeschooling (that's before the adhoc expenses of sending a child to school).

Homeschooling doesn't require following national curriculum so between online resources, education subscriptions and a preexisting homeschooling network the cost of teaching resources would be minimal.

Homeschooling hubs would be another idea for parents who are interested where a number of same stage children can learn together (outside of traditional schools) like playdates but learning based.

We are only spending about 1.5 - 2 hours a day on curriculum based learning that's been assigned so this leaves plenty of time for the fun stuff and social needs can be met by usual playing, activities, hobbies, sports etc.

I think parents will be more open to looking beyond education in the traditional sense after this experience.

You have reminded of one of life's great quotes.....

If you think education is expensive, work out how much not having it costs!

ldy4mxonucwsq6

joebloggs32 wrote: »

You have reminded of one of life's great quotes.....

If you think education is expensive, work out how much not having it costs!

Just from a purely financial perspective, the cost saving of no 'back to school' would offset any cost of getting materials or a device for anyone who hasn't got one already or isn't eligible for assistance.

khalessi

Well if blended learning it won't be traditional home schooling, as they will have to follow the curriculum to keep up with what is being taught in the classroom. It is a case of finding a middle ground, then you have the issue of parents going back to work and not having time to teach, they find it tough enough now.

A lot of thought will have to be put into it to get the balance right to ensure as many kids as possible are included.

You still have an issue with the children at risk as they will be more or less in the same situation as now.

khalessi

The other issue is the flu vaccine. Why are they offering it to children?

Flu hasnt been a major cause of children's illnesses in schools and we know the flu isnt related to Covid19 and they keep telling us that children can't catch it and if they do it is mild or pass it on and if they do it is an outlier, well depending on which study you read.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

khalessi wrote: »

Well if blended learning it won't be traditional home schooling, as they will have to follow the curriculum to keep up with what is being taught in the classroom. It is a case of finding a middle ground, then you have the issue of parents going back to work and not having time to teach, they find it tough enough now.

A lot of thought will have to be put into it to get the balance right to ensure as many kids as possible are included.

You still have an issue with the children at risk as they will be more or less in the same situation as now.

Some parents might decide to just continue homeschool permanently, some will be left with no jobs or will leave of their own accord if the situation is unmanageable.

At least it will give them more control over the situation and some might find the logistics of the blended learning more difficult than just taking the job upon themselves.

It's definitely an option for primary school age, secondary school age would depend a lot on the parents own capabilities, if they would be comfortable with covering off the exam related stuff then it could be an option there too.

khalessi

There is already an app or site called the school hub with activities to use on whiteboard for use across the primary curriculum, could build on that

khalessi

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

At least it will give them more control over the situation and some might find the logistics of the blended learning more difficult than just taking the job upon themselves.
.

The only problem is at the moment anyhow is they are not trained to teach, somehow that would have to change, to maintain the standard the children were getting in school and to keep up with a vast curriculum.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

khalessi wrote: »

The only problem is at the moment anyhow is they are not trained to teach, somehow that would have to change, to maintain the standard the children were getting in school and to keep up with a vast curriculum.

Edited to add. Trying to think abut this more and Perhaps the inspectors coulld help parents maintain the standard or maybe short courses by OU or universities.

No teacher training required to homeschool full-time just an assessment to make sure you can provide a minimum education standard. There's no formal curriculum or set lessons either.

It would be more about getting enough resources to carry out the Tusla assessments that would be the biggest obstacle, of course they might change the rules around that given the circumstances.

The Home Education Network is there for supports too so no requirement for Dept of Education to help either.

khalessi

It is good at the moment but that is pre covid and you would be talking more children who have come from the educational system and would need guidance, people always do when unsure, maybe the Home Education Network could do that. But also probably someone would raise it to the Department, so there would be some sort of research group set up to compare standards between HEN and DoE.

Anyhow it is all up in the air for now but interesting to contemplate.

I reckon the smaller classes and blended learning will be the majority choice, people dont like change, thats something banks and insurances rely on. But thee will be change hopefully only for the short term. Those people with immmuncompromised children will be accomodated as it is important for the children to maintain the links. It has been suggested to me that maybe those kids at home could link in via internet.

It is awful that covid19 caused this but also an exciting time as the technology is there to be used in a myriad of ways.

kandr10

It’s definitely interesting to think about these alternatives. I’m inclined to think though that people who are currently out of work will eventually move back to employment. I don’t think there would be a significant number that would undertake homeschooling in the traditional sense.
In terms of blended learning, if there was a centralised system online that students could access, manned by teachers, potentially those who couldn’t risk going back to the classroom, it would help take some of the pressure off parents and give some reassurance that kids wouldn’t be falling so far behind. Though there’s no doubting that a full curriculum is unobtainable under a restricted timetable, even with measures like this being introduced. It would need significant financial backing also for the equipment and connectivity issues to be sorted. For sure a moderated curriculum should be discussed for the next academic year. That said, my head is in primary school Ed. A moderated curriculum for secondary would be a lot more difficult I’m sure.

Hubertj

Home schooling is for odd ball parents. Kids should be in school developing friendships.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Hubertj wrote: »

Home schooling is for odd ball parents. Kids should be in school developing friendships.

It might have to be a realistic alternative for parents who don't want to send their kids back in September.

Even if it's only short term, kids will need to know what's happening, they need to feel secure.

It's been bad enough few months for them already and some parents won't want them going back be that due to risk, underlying condition or the new measures that will make up part of their school day.

At least this way there would be some flexibility for the family and consistency for the child.

The number of kids home schooled has actually doubled in the last few years so this might just speed up a trend.

Their friendships will be fine, they can still mix with their friends, family, and they'll eventually be able to do their usual hobbies and sports. Parents will need to decide what works best for their family.

jrosen

For families with both parents employed homeschooling wont be an option.

MrDavid1976

jrosen wrote: »

For families with both parents employed homeschooling wont be an option.

Maybe that’s the solution. Parents who are both working get priority on physical classes in the school but families where either or both parents are not working will have to home school or blended learning.

PS - I know this is completely unrealistic. It is unfair and will be particularly damaging on disadvantaged families. We need to get the schools open through hell or high water. Just needs to happen.

joe40

Other European schools have already opened, so if they can manage without major spikes over the next few weeks then I imagine Irish schools will follow suit in September. We are not alone in this and have the advantage of learning from countries further along in the crisis.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

jrosen wrote: »

For families with both parents employed homeschooling wont be an option.

But then neither will no schools opening or opening one or two days a week. Some tough decisions to be made.

I think a lot of families will have to work out what's best for their circumstances. We are both working at the moment (no option to wfh) but it won't be sustainable into September if the last few months are anything to go by.

I think I'll see what the plans are that rolled out for schools come phase 5 and take it from there but I'm going to hold off buying new uniforms for now

mirrorwall14

joe40 wrote: »

Other European schools have already opened, so if they can manage without major spikes over the next few weeks then I imagine Irish schools will follow suit in September. We are not alone in this and have the advantage of learning from countries further along in the crisis.

They haven’t opened fully though. They’ve opened with reduced class sizes, reduced tuition time (cousin in Germany in two days a week for examples) and social distancing rules apply.

What I’m curious about is if any of those countries plan on returning to their normal pupil teacher ratios etc in the foreseeable future? Our class sizes are very high in relation to Europe

ldy4mxonucwsq6

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

They haven’t opened fully though. They’ve opened with reduced class sizes, reduced tuition time (cousin in Germany in two days a week for examples) and social distancing rules apply.

What I’m curious about is if any of those countries plan on returning to their normal pupil teacher ratios etc in the foreseeable future? Our class sizes are very high in relation to Europe

The smaller class sizes might remain for some time, its been seen across a lot of the countries that have reopened schools that some parents simply won't send kids back.

Denmark only closed their schools for a month, and some families have already refused to send kids to school when they reopened. Ours schools will be closed for nearly 6 months come September we'll have gotten very used to the way things are, kids and parents will likely be extremely anxious and might prefer not to participate.

joe40

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

The smaller class sizes might remain for some time, its been seen across a lot of the countries that have reopened schools that some parents simply won't send kids back.

Denmark only closed their schools for a month, and some families have already refused to send kids to school when they reopened. Ours schools will be closed for nearly 6 months come September we'll have gotten very used to the way things are, kids and parents will likely be extremely anxious and might prefer not to participate.

I think by September if cases are holding steady, the vast majority of pupils and parents will want to go back to school.
Homeschooling of primary kids may work for parents who are off work but it is not an option where both parents are working or for specialised subjects in secondary school.

morebabies

jrosen wrote: »

For families with both parents employed homeschooling wont be an option.

I know, but for families with members with compromised immune systems, I think full time homeschooling should be an option. Junior and Leaving Cert can't be done completely at home at the moment because of the project work, I think they should make it possible for these children to do their exams and get their coursework assessed 100% through homeschooling. (Yes I have a vested interest).

ldy4mxonucwsq6

morebabies wrote: »

I know, but for families with members with compromised immune systems, I think full time homeschooling should be an option. Junior and Leaving Cert can't be done completely at home at the moment because of the project work, I think they should make it possible for these children to do their exams and get their coursework assessed 100% through homeschooling. (Yes I have a vested interest).

Don't worry, you can definitely home school if that's your choice. You can also still register for and sit state examinations even if you are home schooled.

I agree and I do think something will need to be done for the classroom based assessments element though, the state can't say yes you have a right to home school but then have children at an automatic disadvantage because they can't do CBA's.

Lillyfae

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

What I’m curious about is if any of those countries plan on returning to their normal pupil teacher ratios etc in the foreseeable future? Our class sizes are very high in relation to Europe

That’s not necessarily the case. I know class sizes can be quite large here in NL, definitely on a par with Ireland. However the school facilities themselves are fantastic. There is a voluntary contribution but for things like class trips and events, not toilet paper and soap. It’s less than €50. The per capita funding would of course cover heating, hot water and soap. Before the Irish schools can open the standards would need to be raised a bit to join the rest of the first world.